9mm oversized bullets??

[leadhead]

Who here size there bullets to .357 or .358 dia. or more and why.
Most commercial cast bullet makers only size .356 dia. I've never
sized any 9mm bullets to .356 am I'm I missing something here?
I never get any leading with over sized bullets. If they chamber, I
shoot them.

[marshall623]

I do that also , my lee mold drops at .357 and 124gr after I cut the bevel base lip out of the mold . I just use my .358 die to lube . My shoot fine or better than I can . I was getting some leading and cutting the bevel base lip out pretty much fixed that .

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[mike_kaleigh]

how did you cut the bevel base out? What are the pros and cons?

[Rapier]

Casting 101, slug your barrel first thing, always.

[tja6435]

I size my 9mm boolits to .358 because they fit my guns and my sizer is almost always setup with the .358 die in it.

[Lakehouse2012]

Yes, slug first.

Then If using cast boolit, you have to go .001 to .002 over bore, to ensure the lead seats in the grooves on bore.

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[waco]

Doesn’t matter what your barrel slugs to. You always want to size the bullet to fit the throat of the gun. Rifle or handgun.
For me, in 9mm, that is .358”

[tazman]

First thing, slug your barrel. This tells you what your minimum sizing requirements are. This does NOT tell you how large you can size to.
The chamber will tell you what you can actually shoot.
I have several 9mm handguns that measure anywhere from .355 to .358(Beretta 92).
I have some 9mm handguns that will only chamber with boolits sized to .357 or smaller. These have very tight match chambers. Any case bulging at the base of the boolit will cause a failure to feed. Here is where the Lee Factory crimp die comes in handy.
My Beretta 92 barrels have sloppy, large chambers. They will accept boolits sized to .359 with cases that are bulged significantly. I think they might even feed gravel is asked to.
Basically, if it will chamber it should shoot fine. I am more concerned with chamber sizes than bore sizes.
I normally size to .357 just to make everything feed well in all my handguns.
I have not seen any significant accuracy differences between the different sized boolits.
Use a good lube and your leading issues should vanish.
The boolits are being hit hard enough by chamber pressure that they should expand enough to fill the bore unless you are using extremely hard alloy.

[mdi]

I never get any leading with over sized bullets. If they chamber, I
shoot them.

Me too. If the round fits the throat, it is used. I have 5, 9mm pistols and most run .355"-.356" groove diameter (one is about .358"). Just to keep things simple I size my cast bullets to .357"+ (I use some of my cast 9mm bullets for my .38 Specials too). But my Masada with poly rifling seems to like .358"...

Slugging not only tells you the diameters of your barrel, but also the condition of the barrel ID. Variations in ID, rough spots, bulges, etc. noticeable too. My first 9mm was a Norenco Tokerev clone in 9mm with the chamber end roughly .356"+ and the muzzle end .358"+...

[Larry Gibson]

I've shot a lot of my own cast 9mm bullets sized .356 in numerous hand and sub guns since '70 when I had a very nice P35 and a S&W M39 until I found out on the internet that was all wrong. Internat guru's said I needed to size to .357 or .358 so I did. Didn't make any difference so I size at .356 and still don't have any problems. Currently using the Lee 356-120-TC cast usually of a 95/2/5/2.5 alloy +/- and lubed with NRA 50/50 lube. I loaded them over 4 gr of Bullseye.

[Half Dog]

I had leading in my barrel when mine were sized 0.356”. I now size to 0.358” and the barrel is very clean after each shooting session.

[lotech]

When I began experimenting with cast bullets in the 9mm about thirty-five years ago, I used my own bullets sized to .356". I didn't keep much in the way of notes then, but from what I remember, I got good accuracy and some leading. All the bullets were pushed hard because much of the data I used was based on jacketed data. There wasn't as much cast data available then as now. Maybe the bullets obturated some and perhaps this would explain the good accuracy, though I don't know this for sure. I used fairly hard bullets, about 16 BHN.

My early work was with a Beretta, a Walther P4, and a Sig P226. I tried about a dozen bullet designs and many powders. I eventually began using a softer alloy (ww) and szing bullets in a .358" die. The best bullet design I've found has been the obsolete Lyman .38 Special mould #358212. It casts a 150 grain roundnose bullet. I use Bullseye powder. This load is accurate and doesn't lead. I'm far from a guru and not an expert on anything, but I won't be going back to .356" bullets.

[Bigslug]

Of the six 9mm barrels that I've slugged, five of them were .356" and one was .355", so it seems .357" is the no-brainer option - - which fortunately is what my tumble lube mold drops at.

[trapper9260]

I slug the barrel to see what it will tell me to use. Some is at .356 and some up to .358 because the barrel is worn some that I bought it used. By the way I found that when expanding and seating the ones that are .358 I use the dies for the 38/357 mag. I have them already so it is works for me, I seen for that size that when I use the 9mm dies to expand and seat they will be not the size I size them to. But when I use the other dies they chamber and cycle without any problems. also the gun shoots better with the size I use.

[ioon44]

One of the guns I shoot a lot slugs at .357", so I size to .359" for it. I have other 9 mm's that size smaller some will feed the .359"and some won't. I don't know why manufactures can't agree on one bore size for 9 mm.

[Hickok]

Just my experiences and trials with 9mm. I have to amend some of my earlier posts about my 9mm sizing after shooting a couple of thousand cast rounds in DIFFERENT makes of pistols.

I started out with a Beretta 92FS 9mm. It slugged at .357" and would feed boolits sized to .358". The chamber and throat was large enough, that this pistol accepted larger sizing/rounds. Simple to load for and all was well....until I bought 9mm pistols made by Sig, Glock, and CZ. (The Beretta has been sold, so I don't have need for .358" boolits.)

In order to make my cast 9mm loads fit all these different pistols, I wanted one "standard" sizing diameter,...a round that worked in all makes/brands that I onwned.

I have case expanders/plugs from NEI to load .356" and .357" sized boolits, so the cast slug is not sized/sqeezed down when seated in the case....a problem I had with previous reloads.

I am going to agree with Larry Gibson about 9mm bullet sizing, as I now size to.356" for all my 9mm pistols.

I shot many rounds sized to .357" successfully, but when various pistols became fouled, dirty, hot and fired rapidly, sometimes a round would fail to slightly to go into battery. A tap on the back of the slide would make the pistol work. ( I was testing my loads by firing 200 rounds through each Sig M17, Sig 365XL, Glock 19x, Glock 48 and CZ75B I have...not extensive testing, just for function and reliabilty.) Taper crimp and mic'd so no bevel/flare left on case.

Also, boolits sized to .357" had to be seated deeper in order to chamber in shorter throats.

I then sized all rounds to .356", same testing, and no hiccups, no failures to go into battery, no malfunctions. No leading, and accuracy in these brands of pistols is the same as far as my shooting ability. I can seat the .356" boolits out to a longer over all length without hitting the throat/leade.

The Beretta 92F is a great pistol.....it was just an entirely different "animal" for me when loading 9mm cast, compared to other makes and brands.

.356" sizing succeeds best in reliability, function and accuracy in my various pistols after many rounds in each handgun,....my results only, others may not agree![smilie=s:

[leadhead]

Thank you sir for the reply.... I'm going to size some to .356 and see what happens.
I have various different 9mm's and have always used .358 with no problems, but
will try the .356.

[Soundguy]

Who here size there bullets to .357 or .358 dia. or more and why.
Most commercial cast bullet makers only size .356 dia. I've never
sized any 9mm bullets to .356 am I'm I missing something here?
I never get any leading with over sized bullets. If they chamber, I
shoot them.

for a 9mm revolver....as long as my cyl throat is .356.. I don't size over that.. if throat is under 356.. it needs opened to 356 or 3565

[lotech]

My handloads using .3575" bullets (actual diameter after sizing/lubing with a SAECO .358" die) would not chamber in a Glock or H&K (only tried one of each pistol and that was some time ago). They function perfectly in a P4, P38, Beretta and Sig. I seat to maximum magazine length; that may be why they won't chamber in some guns. Ammo dimensions are within SAAMI specs. Use what works best for your gun.

[jdgabbard]

My barrels are pretty consistent at 0.355". I always sized to .356, and it worked ok. But I always got a little leading in the first inch or two of the barrel. I attributed this to the boolit "skidding" into the rifling due to the softer alloy I used. The .356" was just big enough to work, but small enough and soft enough to easily spin out a little in the first inch. I upped my boolit to .357", my theory being that the extra force of the boolit sizing down a little more would make up for the rifling cutting into the alloy so easily. Sure enough it fixed my problem. Even though my barrels slug to .355, boolits of .357 to .358 are what it prefers in a 50/50+2% alloy. Pistols mainly like the .357, rifles tend to like the .358. At least that is my experience.

While my anecdotes are not really scientific, they are my experience through trial and error over the last 20+ years of shooting cast.

[Thumbcocker]

Lee 125 grn fp. Sized .358 in Cz75bd, Rock Island 1911, and Sig 365. Why? Accorate and zero leading. No issues in chambering or ejecting. Same boolit in .38 special. Cast up several pounds, lube and size, load in both cartridges. I like simple.

[TD1886]

I concur slug the barrel to see what you are dealing with. I size as fat as I can to still chamber or fill the throat. I bought a 9mm Luger long ago and I had some RCBS Truncated Cone nose 124 grain bullets sized at .356. Fired them through the Luger and couldn't heat a cardboard box at 25 yards. I slugged the barrel and found the groove to be .358. I have a swage and made a die to swage the bullets up to .359. After the that Luger was one of my most accurate pistols. Same thing happened with my P 38. It's groove was .357. It too was woefully inaccurate. I fed it those swaged up .359 bullet and I was pleasantly surprised how accurate it was for a very rattly loose fitting pistol.

Even when I was shooting undersized bullets I never got any leading.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Before I started casting, I shot IPSC competition and I loaded with store bought cast bullets for 9mm (.356), they were a hard alloy, I'd get lead fouling, no biggie, I just clean it out. I would load for several different 9mm guns.
When I learned how to cast, I also learned how to load so I wouldn't get Lead fouling. Basically, I use a softer alloy (so they obturate) and size to .357 and that works for all of 'em in my safe.

[TD1886]

Before I started casting, I shot IPSC competition and I loaded with store bought cast bullets for 9mm (.356), they were a hard alloy, I'd get lead fouling, no biggie, I just clean it out. I would load for several different 9mm guns.
When I learned how to cast, I also learned how to load so I wouldn't get Lead fouling. Basically, I use a softer alloy (so they obturate) and size to .357 and that works for all of 'em in my safe.

All bullets don't obturate especially the lower pressure ones. Make up some means of collecting your fired bullet without damage and mic them. I think you will see something interesting. Grant you higher pressure rounds do obturate.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

All bullets don't obturate especially the lower pressure ones. Make up some means of collecting your fired bullet without damage and mic them. I think you will see something interesting. Grant you higher pressure rounds do obturate.

Very true, but we are talking about 9mm here ;)

[TD1886]

Very true, but we are talking about 9mm here ;)

So you don't shoot low velocity 9mm target type loads THAT STILL WORK THE ACTION? Not everyone can shoot HV 9mm loads with "soft" cast bullets.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

So you don't shoot low velocity 9mm target type loads THAT STILL WORK THE ACTION? Not everyone can shoot HV 9mm loads with "soft" cast bullets.


I use a softer alloy (so they obturate)
I don't use a "soft" alloy.
I don't load any light 9mm loads.

[TD1886]

I don't use a "soft" alloy.
I don't load any light 9mm loads.

But what is your "softer" alloy. I'm interested in knowing and always looking at different loading techniques.

We all know some of the whys companies that sell cast bullets use very hard alloys. I can tell you this that those hard alloys have a lot of blended with the lead to harden it such as Antimony, Arsenic, and Tin and too much of them, especially the Tin cause leading. Too much Antimoney will give you that grey wash. I also feel that those "hard" bullets rub off the alloy onto your bore as they are harder to engrave.

[kevin c]

.357 for my factory Glock barrels. .356 will occasionally keyhole and, even without tumbling, would not group as well as .357. That’s with a 95/3/2 alloy. No leading as I recall, with any alloy or sized diameter using two coats of HiTek. The MP mold drops them around .358.

[gloob]

Most commercial cast bullet makers only size .356 dia.

If your guns need bigger and you want to buy them ready-made, check out 125 grain 38 caliber commercial boolits.

Most of the bigger commercial outfits use molds made to tighter specs, specific to their alloy and final size requirements. Many of their 9mm bullets might not size out fully to 358, even if you wanted to pay more for custom sizing.

[Harter66]

I'm lazy .......no I'm cheap .
I load for 6 cartridges in the 35/38/9mm clan I size .358 with a check for the rifle and .357 for the pistols .

2 reasons .
1 that fits 4 cylinders from 3 manufacturers spread over 60 years in basically a variation of it won't drop through but it doesn't need a lot of push to a firm friction fit . It doesn't lead in those and it doesn't lead in those or a companion carbine as long as the barrel doesn't get too hot .
2 . The 5 9s from 5 makers don't lead . 1 of them is .357 with a generous leade and throat and one is at the other end at .354 with a 45° cut to the top of the lands from the case mouth .

This applies to ;
358066
358-95 NOE
358-125
357-124
357....360...nose out 148 WC
358-158
358-200
35-250

That about covers it .

[TD1886]

I'm lazy .......no I'm cheap .
I load for 6 cartridges in the 35/38/9mm clan I size .358 with a check for the rifle and .357 for the pistols .

2 reasons .
1 that fits 4 cylinders from 3 manufacturers spread over 60 years in basically a variation of it won't drop through but it doesn't need a lot of push to a firm friction fit . It doesn't lead in those and it doesn't lead in those or a companion carbine as long as the barrel doesn't get too hot .
2 . The 5 9s from 5 makers don't lead . 1 of them is .357 with a generous leade and throat and one is at the other end at .354 with a 45° cut to the top of the lands from the case mouth .

This applies to ;
358066
358-95 NOE
358-125
357-124
357....360...nose out 148 WC
358-158
358-200
35-250

That about covers it .

I'll add this about you too, you're SMART!!!! :grin:

[fredj338]

I'm lazy .......no I'm cheap .
I load for 6 cartridges in the 35/38/9mm clan I size .358 with a check for the rifle and .357 for the pistols .

2 reasons .
1 that fits 4 cylinders from 3 manufacturers spread over 60 years in basically a variation of it won't drop through but it doesn't need a lot of push to a firm friction fit . It doesn't lead in those and it doesn't lead in those or a companion carbine as long as the barrel doesn't get too hot .
2 . The 5 9s from 5 makers don't lead . 1 of them is .357 with a generous leade and throat and one is at the other end at .354 with a 45° cut to the top of the lands from the case mouth .

This applies to ;
358066
358-95 NOE
358-125
357-124
357....360...nose out 148 WC
358-158
358-200
35-250

That about covers it .

ITs not really lazy but practical. I have maybe 8 diff 9mm. No way I am slugging bores & keeping track of this or that ammo. Nope, I just size 0.357", coat & call it good. I can still hit 3" groups at 25y, plenty good for anything I need to shoot 9mm at.

[porthos]

marshall 623 stated on the 1st page that he was getting leading until he removed the bevel base lip from his mold. i don't understand why a bevel base would cause leading. any help on that??

[Harter66]

marshall 623 stated on the 1st page that he was getting leading until he removed the bevel base lip from his mold. i don't understand why a bevel base would cause leading. any help on that??

The BB as I understand it allows blow-by/flame cutting to get a place to start by providing a wedge point for the high pressure gas.

Best I have as a description.

[pworley1]

.357 has always worked in all mine. Some work fine with .356 and some work with .358, but all work fine with .357 so they all get .357.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

But what is your "softer" alloy. I'm interested in knowing and always looking at different loading techniques.

We all know some of the whys companies that sell cast bullets use very hard alloys. I can tell you this that those hard alloys have a lot of blended with the lead to harden it such as Antimony, Arsenic, and Tin and too much of them, especially the Tin cause leading. Too much Antimoney will give you that grey wash. I also feel that those "hard" bullets rub off the alloy onto your bore as they are harder to engrave.

The store bought bullets were Terracorp magnum alloy.
my softer alloy has half the antimony and a skosh more tin to balance.

I've never heard that too much tin causes leading...probably just a old wives' tale.

[wv109323]

In my experience with CZ and Canik pistols there is no leade in the rifling. Bullets need to be small and short OAL. This appears to be common in European countries where cast boolits are not as plentiful. Apparently the NATO chamber was designed for 124 and 115g. jacketed bullets.
I have a Canik Rival and I had to return the pistol for a barrel replacement. It would not chamber factory jacketed bullets that were .355. They hit the rifling and the pistol would not go into full battery.
My coated 124 Lee TC would not work at .3565. That is my smallest bullet sizing die at the present. Same thing with the CZ 75B until I have the barrel throated.
My experience with loading the 9mm has been an experience.

[TD1886]

The store bought bullets were Terracorp magnum alloy.
my softer alloy has half the antimony and a skosh more tin to balance.

I've never heard that too much tin causes leading...probably just a old wives' tale.

Well that's fine with me, you can just go right ahead and believe that.

[243winxb]

If bullet diameter is larger then the throat/leade, a shorter COL is needed. Size a tiny bit smaller then the throat.

After sizing check bullet diameter. Different alloys spring back more then others. Harder, more spring back. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/taurus-g3c-9mm-luger.317/

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well that's fine with me, you can just go right ahead and believe that.

I wonder why Elmer Keith never had that problem?

[TD1886]

I wonder why Elmer Keith never had that problem?

I'm planning on shooting Elmer's alloy in my HV cast rifle loads.