Primer Remanufacturing – Test comparisons decibel readings

[MUSTANG]

I have been continuing my experiments with Primer Remanufacturing. Over the last couple of years, I have been remanufacturing primers for personal use and firing them to establish processes that work for me. This includes using a variety of historical primer mixtures. Previously my tests were all “Did it go Bang”, with most information gathered being visual and not easily quantifiable.

To date; I have not been using the primers for actual shooting and load development as I still retain a good supply of New Manufactured Primers – except my Large Rifle Primer supply is dwindling downward so I am getting more serious in collecting good quality personal data for my remanufacturing efforts. There are some really good resources such as AARDVARK Reloading videos and MEWE, but those needed to be translated to my personal equipment, supplies, and abilities. This and future posts will be results of “My Techniques”, using my supplies. Hopefully with some Measurable and Quantifiable outputs.

The following were the general Techniques and Materials I used for Three Tests:

For all tests, I removed the anvils from expended Remington 9 ½ Large Rifle Primers forceps to hold the cup firmly and a Dental Pick to pry the Anvil out. Cups and Anvils cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner with Dawn Dish soap and Lemishine. Primer cups had dimples removed and the cups resized using the NOE Primer Cup Die Set.

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/?s=Primer+Size+die


Test #1.

Used a 1/8 inch paper punch to cut circular disks with the blister centered from a roll of Toy Pistol Caps. A single 1/8 inch disk with blister was inserted into each of ten primer cups. Above the toy cap, the primer cups were filled with scrap Smokeless Powder (Collected from those minor dribbles and spills on the bench while reloading). A drop of alcohol/varnish mixture (20 to 1 ratio of 91% Alcohol and Liquid Varnish) was placed on top of each Primer cup and Primer mixture.

An anvil was placed on top of the mixture in the cup; and the primer with centered- but still loose anvil was positioned in a Lee Ram Primer (https://leeprecision.com/ram-prime) and the Primer was pressed into a .308 case; seating the anvil as part of the primer seating. The mixture is still wet in this “Seating Process”. I let the cases with newly seated remanufactured primers dry for 48 hours before testing. The while still wet primer seating (for this technique) facilitates the primer anvil being seated with the primer mixture “Desensitized” by being wet.



Test #2.

Used “Prime-All” mixture for this test (Reported to be equivalent to H-48 Primer Mixture). Each of the 10 Primer cups were filled level to the top with the Prime All mixture. A 1/8 inch paper punch was used to cut circular disks from cash register receipt paper. A paper disk was placed on top of the primer mix, and the paper disk/Prime All was lightly packed down with a wooden chop stick for each of ten primer cups. A drop of alcohol/varnish mixture (20 to 1 ratio of 91% Alcohol and Liquid Varnish) was placed on top of each Primer cup and Primer mixture.

An anvil was placed on top of the mixture in the cup; and the primer with centered- but still loose anvil was positioned in a Lee Ram Primer (https://leeprecision.com/ram-prime) and the Primer was pressed into a .308 case; seating the anvil as part of the primer seating. The mixture is still wet in this “Seating Process”. I let the cases with newly seated remanufactured primers dry for 48 hours before testing. The while still wet primer seating (for this technique) facilitates the primer anvil being seated with the primer mixture “Desensitized” by being wet.


Test #3.

I used “Prime-All” mixture for this test (Reported to be equivalent to H-48 Primer Mixture). Each of the 10 Primer cups were filled level to the top with the Prime All mixture. A 1/8 inch paper punch was used to cut circular disks from cash register receipt paper. A paper disk was placed on top of the primer mix, and the paper disk/Prime All was lightly packed down with a wooden chop stick for each of ten primer cups. A drop of alcohol/varnish mixture (20 to 1 ratio of 91% Alcohol and Liquid Varnish) was placed on top of each Primer cup and Primer mixture.

During this Test #3, I used the NOE Primer Cup Die Set to seat the anvil into the primer cup over the Primer Mixture. My goal was to be able to use my RCBS press for seating anvils into primer cups with a good level of control, and allow me to eventually remanufacture and store hundreds of primers for later use (as opposed to installing into Brass and seating anvil as was done in Tests #1 and #2). The parts used to seat primers in my RCBS press appear in the following photo:

313732

I used the NOE 7/8 threaded “Bolt” inserted upwards into the RCBS Press (Screw it all the way up – picture shows partially screwed in). The goal is not to have maximum leverage; rather to be able to “Feel” the Anvil as it Seats into to cup. This is done carefully so as to not deform the cup with too much pressure.

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The small Clevis Pin (found at Ace Hardware) is inserted into an RCBS #1 Shell holder. This forms the bottom of the Primer Seating operation. the See the picture below:

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I tried it in the RCBS #3 Shell Holder for .308/30-06; but the Clevis pin does not drop into the Shell holder deep enough. Other Shell Holders may work, but I wanted the flat surface of the Shell Holder top to fully support washer that the primer cup sits in.

A washer (from ACE Hardware) with a hole just larger than the primer cup is placed on top of the #1 Shell Holder and Clevis pin described above. The primer cup previously filled with Prime All Mixture,1/8 inch disk paper, and Alcohol/Varnish mixture is set into the hole in the washer (See Picture Below):


313734

The anvil is set on the top of the primer cup/primer mixture. The handle for the ram of the press is pulled down slowly until it touches the anvil/primer cup. Then the handle is lightly pushed down until one feels the anvil seat. Lift and inspect, remove the newly remanufactured primer – and repeat.

The mixture is still wet in this “Seating Process”. I let the newly remanufactured primers dry for 48 hours before testing. The while still wet primer seating (for this technique) facilitates the primer anvil being seated with the primer mixture “Desensitized” by being wet. When dried; the primer mixture is active.

Results/Analysis

I wanted to compare the results of different techniques and primer mixtures. The only “Measuring” instrument that I could think to employ for this application since I am not ready to load live ammunition was sound. I downloaded a “Decibel Meter” to my phone and used it as a scale to interpret the performance of different tests. The following table provides results of the three Tests.

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Some analysis:

1. A single Blister from Toy Caps performed significantly lower than the other two. (Pfffft Sound compared to Crack from other two tests. It may require 2 Blisters to generate higher performance.

2. Seating the Primer Anvil in conjunction with the Seating the Primer Cup/Primer into brass will work; but does not seem to give as consistent primer ignition as seating the anvil as a separate step compared to seating the primer anvil/primer into the brass case.

3. The sound level for the process discussed in Test #3 was considerably higher; probably resulting in a more energetic primer and probable better result with Loads. I also believe the "Anvil Seating" is a better technique.

[dverna]

Very good post. I pray we do not reach the point where this is necessary but good information just in case.

[jonp]

Excellent post. I'm not needing primers right now but I am one of the many on here that just has to try new stuff out "just because".

[trapper9260]

Good post and report, I use a toy cap with blackpowder 3 F or 4 F and always gose off and works for shotgun primers too. Just need to add more BP in the holder. I like the idea of what you use for wet it so it will not go off. I had some of the shotgun go off on me , I like about the use of the press . That would make it easier to seat the anvil . I will keep track of you test . thanks for posting .

[Larry Gibson]

MUSTANG

Very well done. will be interesting to further see results of actual 308W load tests.

[barnetmill]

Impressive for sure. Your technique is very well thought out.
The decibel reading is interesting to test the overall power of the primer especially. Simpler actually than measuring the velocity of say a bb or shattering perhaps a wafer or actually igniting something.

[dtknowles]

Yes, nice write up. Thanks.

[lar45]

Very good information!
Will be following your actual loads with them.

[hporter]

Thanks for posting your methods and results.

I bought a set of the NOE tools too, but haven't tried using them yet.

[pworley1]

When we all start doing that they will outlaw toy caps.

[BLAHUT]

I pray that you have not found another vocation/job that many of us may need, the way the demorats are taking this country ??

[Land Owner]

It is assured that Inventors and Pathfinders are the leading edge of techniques that may become necessary for us all. The struggle is Real. Well done, Sir!

Should remanufactured primers become the Rule, rather than the exception, there will be, imo, fewer than 10% of reloaders willing, able, or capable of attempting these procedures. Not that they can't, or the meticulously described methodology is too difficult to learn, they just won't, or won't have the materials (spent primers and anvils mainly) with which to work.

For these and many other reasons, I started (late) keeping my spent primers, although I won't shoot through my supply of new primers in my lifetime, while increasing the supply of spent primers. They are "worthless" today. Tomorrow, who knows?

Someone will invent a separation method for large and small. Distinguishing cups between rifle and pistol may be recognizable in time too. Certainly, at once-fired spent primer separation, it would be beneficial to store each type with like-type. Separate storage according to its Manufacturer (i.e. CCI, Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc.), may be a bridge too far (at present). That's like (say, cause idk) twelve (12) Mfgs. times four (4) primer types, or (say) 48 different primer containers - a daunting task.

How many times can a "spent primer" be manipulated until it has become useless? I am thinking "work hardening" of the primer cup and eventual "punch through" by the firing pin.

Do you, can you anneal primer cups?

How do you separate anvils, small v. large? Another invention perhaps...

There are an inevitable number of unanswered questions.

[trapper9260]

For me, I keep the primers separated when I deprime and then label the container that I put them in. It dose not really matter the maker. it is the size of them that matters and when you take them apart you do the same. you will be ok. Because when you buy once fired cases or shells . You do not really know what primers that was used. On Shells watch out to see if they are US or European primers because there is a different in size . I found that out fast. If you just want to use US ones only then , BPI have a tool to do that . It works for me this way .

[dverna]

Land Owner, I see things the same way.

I am one of those who will likely never need to do this for a number of reasons.

I have enough primers to last a lifetime if I ration myself to a "reasonable" amount of CF shooting. But that is 10-20% of what I used to do. I can live with that if I must. Moved to other ways to get trigger time.

At 72, I am too old to worry about what will happen in 25 years. Primers are unlikely to become unavailable in my lifetime. Might be expensive but I can deal with that.

I am too lazy to spend an hour of meticulous effort to produce 50-100 primers. I will spend $100/k to get primers.

Part of my planning was making sure I would always be able to address necessities and that means defending myself/tribe. Hunting is a secondary priority if/when the SHTF. By rationalizing on 9mm, .223, .308 and 12 ga there is nothing else I need to survive. That ammunition will always be available (either legally or illegally) even if primers and powder were banned.

Today, 9mm can be purchased for $250/k. Reloading, using current component pricing, would cost me $160/k with cast bullets or $235/k with jacketed. Using my current inventory, cost works out to $85/k with cast and $150/k with jacketed...but I will not use up my supplies until I can replenish at "good" prices.

I would need to spend $360 to reload 1000 rounds of .223 and PMC is $400 delivered. My actual cost would be $220/k using my inventory of components, but I will not use them up'

I will not waste primers producing "plinking/training" ammunition. I am not alone.

But the good news is that the above prices for factory/remanufactured ammunition indicates primers are way overpriced otherwise those companies could not be profitable. So, primer/powder prices should come down.

The other good news is smart and/or lazy people are not reloading for the calibers (9mm &.223) that suck up primer supply when they can buy "affordable" blasting ammunition. Buying becomes their "new normal", and they stop reloading so demand for components will drop.

All to say, unless something strange happens, primer prices will get back under $50/k.

Casters are not mainstream consumers. Reloaders are not mainstream consumers. It sucks to need (want?) to shoot that .25/35, 7.5mm, .38/55, etc etc and not have any options. Being heavily invested in "obscure" cartridges and not having planned for bad times is a lesson to learn from.

[bruce381]

hey we re reload ammo and cast bullets why not add primers too kinda a natural progression

[MUSTANG]

I have discontinued the use of "Decibel Reading" with the remanufactured primers during testing. I was unable to consistently collate a relationship between the Decibel Reading and Boolit velocity and performance on Paper.

I have continued doing experimentation on Remanufacturing Primers using a variety of formulas. I wanted to start collecting more data than "Bang Testing" primers; or just validating they were actually igniting the Powder charge. Below are Choreographed data on a test last week. All 10 rounds had successful primer/powder ignition. The mixture used was the FH42 Primer Mixture (packed after filling to top of Primer cup, newsprint paper foil over Primer Mix, and a drop of 70% alcohol/shellac mix on top, dry for 48 hours):

Potassium Chlorate
15.6 gr.
Antimony sulfide
10.2 gr.
sulfur [S]
7.3 gr.
Aluminum Powder [AL]
0.2 gr.
Sodium Bicarbonate
0.2 gr.
Total FH42 mixture weight
33.5 Grains


Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 5 Mph left to right.
Temp: 60 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette – Lubed
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinell Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .310
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: (No) As cast boolit with Rooster Red lube.
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC-2 29.3 Grains with a Dacron Filler
Primer: Remanufactured Remington 9 1/2 primer cup - FH42 Primer Mixture
Case: PMC Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.



This was a 10 round test, Unfortunately the Lab Radar Chronograph only registered velocity for 5 of the 10 shots.

1785
1872
1861
1837
1862
1844 fps Average velocity.


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[Idz]

A couple of things I did to test primers and caps. 1) Build a drop tube ( 1" PVC) with cross-drilled holes every 1" then use a 4 ounce steel weight to drop from known heights onto the cap or a firing pin. This mimics the way commercial outfits determine the primer all-fire energy and measures consistency. 2) Place a piece of paper an inch or so below the drop tube to 'photograph' the primer spray pattern to measure consistency and see how much spray the primer puts out.

[MUSTANG]

It is assured that Inventors and Pathfinders are the leading edge of techniques that may become necessary for us all. The struggle is Real. Well done, Sir! .........


How many times can a "spent primer" be manipulated until it has become useless? I am thinking "work hardening" of the primer cup and eventual "punch through" by the firing pin. I am going on 11 "Remanufacturing Cycles" for some of the Primer Cups to date.

Do you, can you anneal primer cups? NO I have not annealed any Primer Cups

How do you separate anvils, small v. large? I separate SP/SR/LP/LR when deprimeing. I further separate each of the 4 types by "Silver Colored" primers and Brass (nonplused) Primer cups. All then go into different large Vitamin Plastic Jars. After picking the anvils out with a dental pick; I keep the anvils separated from Primer Cups, each in two different smaller Plastic Pill Bottles - rubber band holding the two together for Remanufacturing the Primers as a batch later. Another invention perhaps........

There are an inevitable number of unanswered questions.

See my responses in blue above.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez - wear first class eye protection
when shootin' ammo using salvaged primer cups!

[deces]

The primer reloading Rabbit hole is becoming easier to navigate.
https://aardvarkreloading.com/index.html

[MUSTANG]

GONRA sez - wear first class eye protection
when shootin' ammo using salvaged primer cups!

Why anything over normal precautions for shooting when using "Remanufactured" Primers? in a fire arm? Serious minds want to know what they have missed.

[P Flados]

Why anything over normal precautions for shooting a fire arm? Serious minds want to know what they have missed.

I tend to agree.

I also have some comments in response to other recent postings.

I have been reloading primers for ~1.5 years as discussed on a couple of Boolit threads. I have processed many thousands of cups.

Early on, I decided to focus on reloading "once fired" primers.

My initial inventory of spent primers included a wide range of conditions. Some of the primer cups have a very minimal "dent" after being processed. Others show more "thinning" and /or damage from the first firing. More than minimal damage is generally the rule from some guns with 9mm Glocks among the worst. My inventory of spent primers also included a lot that came from a specific gun (SP 101 in 327) that is on the ragged edge of piercing new primers.

At least 85% of my reloaded primers have been used in low pressure ammo (<20,000 psi). As long as the cup was not pierced on the first firing, I expect a near zero piercing rate on the second firing.

Only recently have I started using reloaded primers for a high pressure round, full power 7 TCU. When using only "less damaged" cups, they are working well so far.

And for anyone considering primer reloading, "sort by type and brand" is possible and should be your goal if you want high volume usage combined with high reliability. Good sorting is an order of magnitude easier and better when sorting by brand is done prior to harvesting spent primers from brass.

[MUSTANG]

Based on attempts to extrapolate (Estimate) pressures for the Cast Boolit Loads I am using with the "Re-Manufacturing" of Primers - It looks like I am generating Pressures of about 37,000 to 40,000 PSI with my .308 loads using BLC-2 powder. My references used for extrapolation are Richard Lees' Modern Reloading 2nd edition manual and Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition.

As stated previously in my threads here and elsewhere; I have many of the Remington No. 9 1/2 Large Rifle Primer cups having been loaded 10 or 11 times to date. There have been no primer cup failures; and no indications of emerging primer cup failures at the estimated 37K to 40K PSI range. All have been fired in the same Remington 700 Rifle. I will admit that the Brass is "Dirty" after each firing, indicating slow sealing in the chamber upon ignition.

I have not gone down the Small Pistol Primer "Re-Manufacturing" rabbit hole yet as I have quite a few factory on hand, and they are more readily available at stores. A few samples of comments such as P Flados above; does indicate that Primer Cup performance could potentially be significantly impacted by specific individual firearms or even types of firearms.

[MUSTANG]

Following pic is of the last 10 Rounds shot (after brass cleaning). These Remington 9 1/2 Primer cups have been "Re-Manufactured" 10 times. All 10 cycles were with loads estimated at 37K to 40K PSI pressures with 200 Grain Cast Boolits.


315902
(Double Click on the picture to expand view)

Note that the brass is literally 10 different Head Stamped Cases. (This was intentional in testing to have a variety of brass used in my testing). Case number 5 (Left to right) in the picture appears to have a flattened cup - but; the cup is not flattened, the picture just gives that impression.

[deces]

Nice... I am curious to know, have you developed a prudent method of removing the anvils from the cups?

[P Flados]

Nice... I am curious to know, have you developed a prudent method of removing the anvils from the cups?

I started off simple, I held the primer with my fingers and used a makeshift pick (straightened large paper clip).

It worked ok on some brands but was a PITA on others. The clip was prone to bending and holding the little buggers was tough.

I then drilled 20 snug holes in a 1/8" thick strip of metal to hold the primers and I upgraded my pick to one made from a large safety pin.

I later upgraded my pick by taking a section of the safety pin and inserting it into a 5/16" rod.

At one time I was trying to get fancy and use the anvil removal process to screen out "mushroom head" primers. Now I just load up the strip with 20 primers, pry out the anvils and dump the cups. The "fancy process" is described at https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?437558-Primer-Reloading-Pics-and-Tips

Castloader modified an old pair of needle nosed pliers to hold primers for anvil removal. This is the guy that got me started based on https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?434882-Making-Sparkplugs-My-first-100-primers/page5

Photos of tooling described above:

315909
315910

315908

[MUSTANG]

Back to the Range Today for further testing of Remanufacturing Large Rifle Primers; I changed the technique I was using in the Primer Cup preparation process. Once again I used the FH42 Primer Mixture.


Potassium Chlorate 15.6 gr.
Antimony sulfide 10.2 gr.
sulfur [S] 7.3 gr.
Aluminum Powder [AL] 0.2 gr.
Sodium Bicarbonate 0.2 gr.
Total FH42 mixture weight 33.5 Grains

As before in post #16; I filled each cup even to the top with the FH-42 primer mixture. This time I also used a bamboo chop stick; but only enough to slightly pack the primer mix down so it will not spill/slop out of the cup when moved. I then placed the primer cup with Primer mixture in the washer/clevis pin arrangement on the Ram (see post #1- last picture) of my Rock Chucker press.

The difference this time is that I "Packed/Compressed" the primer mix by pressing it down in the Primer Cup using my RCBS Rock Chucker Press.



To do this, I created a primer mix "Packing" tool. The tool is built by using a Lee Universal Neck Expander die. The NOE Large Rifle Primer ram from their Primer Cup Sizing Die offering. In addition; a retaining washer was needed as the NOE Large Rifle Primer ram will fall through the Lee Expander Die body without the washer (I found a washer that works at ACE Hardware).

316281 316282


To use the "Packing Tool"; I placed the primer mix filled cup onto the Clevis Pin/Washer assembly on the ram. I then placed a drop of alcohol/varnish mixture (20 to 1 ratio of 91% Alcohol and Liquid Varnish) on top of the slightly compressed primer mix (previously compressed with the bamboo chop stick); on top of that using a pair tweezers I placed a paper foil disk (cut from a cash register tape using a hole punch) - the foil disk will absorb some of the moisture from the drop of alcohol/varnish. It's purpose is to keep the Primer Mixture from sticking to the Punch.

Once the above is completed; cycle the Press arm to run the ram to top of cycle. Screw in the Packing Tool down in the threads until it contacts the primer Cup - ensure the punch will go into the cup - then screw the ram down until it firmly compresses the mixture. I then lower the ram; and turn the threads slightly (1/32 to 1/8 turn) and carefully cycle the press again - it should cam over with a very very slight resistance at cam over. The threaded depth of the punch should now be set. Carefully position each primer cup; apply alcohol/varnish drop, apply paper foil, compress mixture and repeat for each primer.


The mixture is de-senitized with the Alcohol/water/ drop; but compression of the mixture in the primer cup could potentially still be ignited from too much pressure.

Once the above is done; all primers then have the anvils seated as described in Post #1. They need to dry for 48 Hours before use.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Below is the 10 Round Group shot using this Primer Remanufacturing process. The bull is 7/8 Inches across.

316283

Average velocity was: 1814 fps, High 1855 fps, Low 1751 fps.

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 7 Mph left to right.
Temp: 80 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette – Lubed Carnuba Red
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinell Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .310
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: (No) As cast boolit with Rooster Red lube.
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC-2 29.3 Grains with a Dacron Filler
Primer: Remanufactured Remington 9 1/2 primer cup - FH42 Primer Mixture
Case: PMC Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.

__________________________________________________ _________________

Early indications are that compressing the primer mixture - after adding the alcohol/varnish mixture and the use of a Paper Foil from cash register tape has produced more consistency. Over the last few weeks; I have been experiencing ~ 15% "Delayed ignition" (estimated at 1/4 to 1 second on delays) and some (about 1% to 5%) failure to fires on my shooting done with the previous Re-Manufactured Primer process. This process initially seems to be more consistent.

[MUSTANG]

Well, I tried some new techniques and had two abysmal failures.

Failed Try #1:

My success technique has been to load primers with mixture in a single hole tray holding the resized primer cup, or a tray with 10 holes (Max effort previous to date).
For a sample Primer Cup Tray for loading Primer mix; see my post #6 on this site at: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?418245-Reloading-Primers-using-Prime-All-Mixture-(Testing-Results)&highlight=

I felt the single hole or even 10 hole trays have been successful in my efforts; but I had a yearning for loading primer mix in 100 at a time ratio to decrease production time. 100 Primers at a time is about the most as a hobbyist I wanted to attempt since the potential energy released ratio drastically increases with the amount (number) of primer mix being loaded into the resized primer cups.

I bought the below plastic printed primer cup tray to try remanufacturing 100 Large Rifle primer cups at a time using either H-48 or FH-42 formulas. Concept is similar to the Aluminum or Steel Primer Mix Loading tray seen in historic or recent Videos of commercial Primer Manufacturing.

316743

The left is the tray with holes for holding the resized cups while filling them with primer mixture. The right is a dual sided plate. One side has 100 pointy cone shaped studs corresponding to the holes in the left plate (This is the down side you can not see in the Pic). The other side (the one you can see in the picture) has each stud being flat. There were no instruction with the tray; and I found no videos to date on the use.

After filling the cups with primer mixture - I pressed the right plate (Pointy end down) into the mix. I some Primer Mixture displaced into the areas between the studs, and some mixture left on the studs. I also tried the same process by using the other side (the side you see in the picture) with flats on each stud; resulting in what I perceive as excess dry primer mixture on the studs and between the studs. Additionally; I am concerned about putting PRESSURE on the primer mix in the cups.

The safest process for working with Primer Mixtures is to use a "WET" primer mixture. The primer mixture has to be slightly compressed to create a more reliable primer and allow for installation of the Anvil. For the Prime-All, H-48, and FH-42 mixtures; this is accomplished by using a drop of 20:1 ratio Alcohol and Shellac.

In the case of using this tray; I also tried putting a drop of the 20:1 mixture into each of the 100 primer cups loaded with the dry mixture. (Goal was to allow me to "PRESS" the mixture with the plate you see on the Right side of the picture. ) Resulted in a TREMENDOUS MESS. the primer mix was washing up onto the 100 hole plate between the primer cup/holes, some were nearly empty - with others almost full and others in between. Recipe for erratic primers.

I did not even attempt to "Press" the mixture into the primer cups. Instead, I got out my large Gold mining pan (plastic) and washed the entire mess with water from the garden hose; and an old kitchen strainer to capture the primer anvils (no need to throw out previous work resizing the primer cups).

These trays (Picture) were "Conceived" to be used with the EPH-20/25/26 Primer Mixtures which are wet mixtures. I have been unsuccessful in acquiring key Chemicals required for the EPH-20/25/26 Primer Mixtures so these Primer Mixture Loading Trays (as well as the Small Pistol/Rifle Primer Trays I also bought) are going to go into the Bottom Drawer for use at some future date when I can get the Chemicals needed for EPH-20/25/26 Primer Mixtures.

Failed Try #2:

A Paper Foil is used in Primer Mixture loading between the compacting rod or stud and the Wet Primer Mixture to keep it from sticking to the rod/stud. I use a 1/4" hand hole punch to cut/make the Paper Foils that go on top of the Wet Primer Mixture in each cup. Since I am compressing the primer mixture in each primer cup individually; I have to pick up the foil with a tweezer and place it on top of the mixture - then cycle the press to compact it. (See post # 27 above for this set up).

Individually punching out the 1/4" disks for use as a Paper Foil requires a lot of punches to collect many paper foils. I got the idea that I could fold the paper to achieve 2, 3, 4, or even 5 disks with each punch!! So; I got excited and punched out what is probably 400 to 500 disks. Today I took out the cup of disks and began "Remanufacturing" primers for my near term needs. I selected out 30 cups, loaded them with Primer Mixture, applied the 20:1 Alcohol/Shellac mixture and placed a Paper Foil Disk and compressed the Wet Mixture as I have done in previous sessions.

UNFORTUNATELY; my manufacturing process had a flaw I did not foresee. As I was compressing mixture in primer cups I was getting fluctuating resistances to each compression of the primer mixture. After doing the batch it suddenly hit me - There were multiple (2, 3, 4, or 5) disks stuck to each other. The variable thicknesses of the 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 stacked disks was where the fluctuating resistances were coming from!!

LESSON LEARNED - despite wanting to increase productivity of various stages in remanufacturing primers; I will need to cut individual single layer disks when using the Hand Hole Punch. No more folding and cutting multiple folds of paper for Paper Foil preparation.

[MUSTANG]

I have tried multiple papers to use as Paper Foil Disks placed over the 20:1 Alcohol/Shellac mixture used as a wetting agent in Proem-All, H-48, and FH-42 Priming Mixtures. I have used 18lb printer paper, Onion Skin paper, Newsprint (suggested paper form articles on primers from the WW-II era), thin papers from advertisement flyers, and Cash Register tape.

Inconsistent ignition in my early experiences I began to attribute to Foil Paper selection. The thicker/stiffer papers seemed to leave pieces of shredded paper in the cups of the remanufactured primers. The "NewsPrint" seemed to not have that problem; but at times I felt it was not doing the job sufficiently during compression of the Primer Mixture as I had a couple of occasions where a disk would stay on the "Compression Stud" after compressing the mixture (Before seating the anvils/s).

I have settled on the use of cash register tape as my preferred Paper of Choice for Paper Foil Disks. I believe I am getting more consistent results, my "Fail to Fires, and my "Hang Fires" have been diminished - and I believe eliminated - due to my change to Cash Register Paper as a Paper Foil.

Anyone else have any experience/thoughts on Paper Foils?

[barnetmill]

One of concerns or it should be suggestions is in ammo plants the biggest danger are accumulation of fine particulate energetic materials, especially those used for priming. It one gets into this in any volume the clean up and care with static electricity are big issues. If potassium chlorate is used, then clean up of the corrosive salts after firing it in your gun is important. But I think we all know this.
I enjoy seeing how some people are becoming most self sufficient relative to have an ammo supply.

[dverna]

This is important stuff for those who do not or cannot plan ahead.

It may be life saving if things go south and components become unavailable.

I keep looking for a "break through" but it is not there yet. Making 50-100/hr is more time than I am willing to spend.

Ginex srp, and spp primers are $320/5k delivered to my door. Not a great but acceptable and I hope prices get lower. I will not spend the time or accept the risks with remanufacturing primers unless the economics and reliability are better.

I can buy jacketed 9mm for $220 delivered to my door. Hardly worth reloading never mind remanufacturing primers to produce plinking/training ammunition for that caliber. I can sell the brass for $20 so my cost is $200/k. My cost to reload with cast bullets is $135/k. It takes me 4 hours to cast/lube/size 1000 bullets and 2 hours to reload 1000 rounds. Six hours to save $65. If I used remanufactured primers, that would add another 10 hours and save me another $65. 16 hours to save $130 does not work for me.