USPS-First flat rate box damged in shipment

[higgins]

I recently sent a member some brass in a small flat rate box. Several days later my wife returns from the mail box with the flat rate box; it had been returned with one of the long sides ripped out and taped back up and the end banged. All of the brass and the packing material was gone. It was never delivered to the addressee. the recipient and I communicated via PM and I mailed him a check for what he had paid me including shipping, which wasn't much. I agreed to file a claim with USPS since I had the smashed box and the receipt for mailing. I filed the claim stating the amount we had agreed to for merchandise and I assumed USPS would reimburse me for the sfrb postage fee. I received the insurance payment in a couple of weeks but it did not include anything for postage. I checked into it and found out they will only reimburse shipping on a frb if it is lost. By returning a mangled empty sfrb to me it was not considered lost.

I got three opinions about this from the clerk and supervisor at my local PO and from a phone help line. I also read the postal manual section(s) that refer to such situations. The bottom line is if merchandise is lost or damaged file a claim for it and you may get paid in a reasonable time if it's not for too much and not a suspicious situation. I don't know what the mechanism or waiting period is to make a determination that a parcel is lost. If you have gotten reimbursed for postage in a situation like mine I'm happy for you. Fortunately my lesson only cost me $10.20.

This is the first time it's happened to me after sending several dozen flat rate boxes over the years. I have no complaints about the staff at my PO. They're always helpful and friendly, they don't make the policies, and they didn't damage the shipment. Just be aware, and tape those boxes good and have put the contents in a a tough bag inside the box. I have several Regional Rate boxes that I can no longer use so I've started putting brass in one of them, padded like it was the outer box, writing the address on the RR box, and putting that inside a padded MFRB.

[Soundguy]

It is for reasons such as this that whenever I send items through the mail that are parts or brass or lead or something like that I double box and the second box is basically completely sealed with about two layers of that packing tape that has the cord in it that's virtually impossible to open unless you cut it the second box also has an address and return address label on it and inside of it I have had packages so mangled they literally had to open them up and then try to find out who to get it to one way or the other so yeah labels on the outside of the first box labels on the outside of the inner box and labels inside the box and make sure that second box basically has to be opened with a knife I learned this from someone else who sent me a package that way and the box that I received was basically more like a cardboard bag but luckily because of the way that they double boxed it and used that strapping tape with cord in it it still made it to me so now that's the only way I'll send things sure it cost me a couple more bucks and takes another 10 minutes but whenever I send stuff out unless it's just completely run over by a bulldozer it usually makes it there I'm so tired of ordering something and you get a box that's empty that has a whole the size of your fist in it and the small part the size of a quarter that someone shipped you with no packing just fell out it really bites.

[imashooter2]

While an abundance of tape on a package does work, if I spent $3 on tape every time I sent a package I’d be way WAY behind. I put loose stuff into the tyvek bags the USPS has out for free. I label that bag as “lost from inside flat rate package. Please return to 'my address.'" Then I pack the boxes solid using cardboard shims cut from free boxes. Anyone who has ever received one of my pewter shipments knows the drill. If the boxes can’t be compressed, they are really hard to rip open in shipping.

[Kestrel4k]

And it doesn't even have to be $3 of tape; I downsized /significantly/ in 2021 and to prepare for it, I purchased a case of 12 rolls / 1560 yards of good-quality 3mil tape.

Total cost was $30.

I grossed $48,000 in sales that year (mostly GB), and only used half of the case of tape.

The other way to slice it is that an ~unlimited supply of tape reduced my gross by only 0.06 % - and I still had a half-case left over.

Not a single damaged shipment or loss of any kind - it's not rocket science.

[lightman]

I use lots of tape. And use a bag inside the box plus enough padding that the goods can't move. If its heavy I cut up old boxes to make a liner thats essentially a box in a box.

My worst experience was a lost $800+ money order. They wouldn't cancel it for 30 days and then charged me for doing that. This was for a rifle action and thankfully the seller was very understanding. He received the original money order exactly 2 months after I mailed it.

But mostly my experiences have been positive, both when shipping and receiving.

[Kestrel4k]

This year, I've downsized $12,000 (so far) from an older friends' estate to help him out; my securely-packaged shipments have went so well that I don't get extra insurance for high-value packages (expensive scopes and rare brass for example - firearms are fully insured however).

$5+ bucks per pkg of extra insurance would really add up over hundreds of packages - I'm so far ahead at this point that I could eat multiple losses over the base $100 insurance for basic USPS PM and it wouldn't even budge the bottom line.

--> Tape <--
Invented in 1845

[scattershot]

Seems like when you pay postage, the Postal Service has entered into a contract with you to deliver the package. They did not fulfill that contract, so they should reimburse you for the postage.

[Soundguy]

I use lots of tape. And use a bag inside the box plus enough padding that the goods can't move. If its heavy I cut up old boxes to make a liner thats essentially a box in a box.

My worst experience was a lost $800+ money order. They wouldn't cancel it for 30 days and then charged me for doing that. This was for a rifle action and thankfully the seller was very understanding. He received the original money order exactly 2 months after I mailed it.

But mostly my experiences have been positive, both when shipping and receiving.

Same.. I sent a postal money order using their flat rate cardboard priority mailer... Went from fl to GA.. Stopped there..lost. 6 weeks later started moving towards Texas... And yeah..post office wanted me to pay to cancel and refund it..***...

[JimB..]

I’ve put apple airtags in a few shipments, the results are interesting to watch. So far nothing lost, but then in my entire 58 years I’ve only lost a few packages anyway.

About shipping brass, I also put it i to the tyvek bag and then use a sufficient amount of tape. If you’re cheap you can use the USPS priority mail tape for free at the counter if you’re sending flat rate or other priority.

[contender1]

I too prefer to truly package anything I ship with a fair amount of tape. Plus,, I also pack stuff to prevent shifting etc. But on the subject of tape,, ESPECIALLY if you use USPS Priority,, if you ask nicely,, the PO will GIVE you a roll of THEIR tape,, for free. Using the Tyvek bags, padding & internal markings helps prevent potential losses.

But I really hate it when someone ships me something and they do a POOR job of packing it. Individuals, or companies.

I like to think there are enough package handlers that went to the "Gorilla school of damaging stuff" to where I want them to give up on trying to damage my packages in favor of those easier to destroy!

[Handloader109]

The issue is NOT the damaged packages. It is the lost, stolen or delivered to the wrong address. I've had one package last year and my daughter just had another last week marked delivered and either stolen out of our mailbox, or delivered to the wrong address. Both usps and once tracking is marked delivered, it matters not what you do or say. It was delivered. Maybe not to you, but to someone. Between the two, we're out $100. Extra Insurance wouldn't matter they won't pay.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[hc18flyer]

A few years ago I bought a press off of a forum. The shipper put it in a medium flat rate box and sent it.(no packing) When I got it a corner of the base casting was missing. After a few weeks I did get $50. insurance, but I am stuck with a damaged press. I can never recover my investment from it. hc18flyer

[stubshaft]

The issue is NOT the damaged packages. It is the lost, stolen or delivered to the wrong address. I've had one package last year and my daughter just had another last week marked delivered and either stolen out of our mailbox, or delivered to the wrong address. Both usps and once tracking is marked delivered, it matters not what you do or say. It was delivered. Maybe not to you, but to someone. Between the two, we're out $100. Extra Insurance wouldn't matter they won't pay.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

I wholehearted agree. I've had a couple of packages supposedly delivered to my mailbox that I had NEVER received. USPS stated that it was delivered and to "wait a couple of days to see if it shows up"?

[Soundguy]

Yup..insurance as a concept is a scam..and postal insurance is a joke on top of it.

For one thing..postal tracking is in the dark ages. Many companies track scans in and out of locations. Plenty of times USPS is lucky to hit in or out, a couple places along the lines. I know I've received packages with tracking that still showed it in other states when I got it. It's how mail becomes lost. If you do scan in and out.. And a item stops moving.. Then you know if it left a depot but didn't arrive to the next... You know it is the carrier in between who has it... If it scans in but not out..then you know the facility that lost it. Single scans won't tell you that... At best you can narrow it down to 3 possibilities on a journey... The last scan in a single scan system means it's lost there..or lost in transit or receiving at the next end. Not much to go on there.

As an aside..if there are any ex or current USPS employees or carriers. Or contractors here.. When an item is lost... Is there an actual search made.. Or is everything just rely on hope and faith and a scan here and there?

[ascast]

I could tell horror stories but, bottom line is pack well and in layers. I always email a reminder to folks sending to me to wrap in layers, etc, It is so much easier than the legal process of tracking down, who pays etc. I once had a package get lost in Seattle. After about a month of the guy waiting and calling me once a week the package showed up in fine shape. Just got lost in house. ( USPS house) They all hire gorillas, mail/female.
Tape, more tape, full of padding.

[Misery-Whip]

Just think of all those pieces of brass getting jammed in there sorting equipment creating breakdowns. And just when they think they have them all....

I was working for an ultralight outfit in my youth and we would ship repacement parts, and a chunk of 1" shaft 10" long was ejected from the box in shipping. The box arrived fine and the whole order except for a 1.5" round hole in the side of the box. Well we put out a claim, and 3 weeks later it was returned to us barely recognizable as a precesion ground shaft material. They had just stuck a label to it, but it was bent, peppered with dings, and had wedged in somewhere to slow something to a stop due to the marring, gouging, and discoloring from heat on the first 2 ".

When we realized what it was we both got a good laugh.

But because USPS returned it, they wouldnt pay the claim.

[Shawlerbrook]

Ditto on a couple layers of tape. My theory on packing things for shipping is that I try to package with the idea that the carrier will deliberately try to damage the package and my job is to foil their try.

[georgerkahn]

I might add (perhaps important to know?) a bit of info to this thread: To wit, a few years back I purchased and paid over four hundred U S dollars for four MP brass moulds from a seller in CANADA. The seller put them all, loose, in a box facial tissue (e.g., Kleenex) is sold in and sent them my way. Two weeks later I received a box with one-third torn/missing, but still containing one-half of but one mould.
I first contacted seller -- different tale: "It was MY fault for buying four moulds!" -- then the postal services for an insurance claim.
GUESS WHAT? I then learned that be it Canada Post to USPS, or the other way, insurance is NOT claimable. Huh? I was out more than four hundred U S dollars.
(I contacted PayPal, who froze sellers' account -- and he offered to refund me one-half. (Huh???) But, reckoning this was better than a stick in the eye took it -- to receive a lot LESS than 1/2, as he subtracted all his fees from transaction before dividing by two)
Live and learn, eh?
Regardless -- it may be nice to "file away" that while postal people will take money for insurance, if it crosses that silly double yellow line on maps -- you're out of luck should you wish to make a claim!
geo

[MaryB]

My rule is if it is over 10 pounds it MUST be packed so it cannot shift in the box. Over 30 I custom cut foam blocks to protect it. Over 20 pounds DO NOT USE packing peanuts, the item will shred them then start bouncing around. Use solid pieces of foam or cardboard.

I shake test every box and of I feel a shift it gets repacked. Brass gets shaken until it packs down then I add more packing and repeat, it will semi sort itself into smaller piles and leave space to move around during shipping.

And if there is a void in the box from a loose item USPS WILL crush the box in that spot and tear it open!

30 years of eBay shipping of sensitive electronics. ZERO damage or loss!

[45DUDE]

Insurance is cheap. Mail a copy of the receipt to the receiver at the same time in case there is a claim problem. I bought 3 boxes of lead from a girl her dad had passed and had never shipped lead. Out of 120 pounds I received 20 pounds in a taped up box and she said it was my fault for telling her to send flat rate. You need to know how to package.

[Keyman]

I received a book, that was wet, found out that a box with cream rinse drained all over the mail while in route. Post Office held the mail for the weekend until it all dried. Book smell good but wrinkled pages. We have learned that there is never any postage reimbursement.

[Half Dog]

My situation wasn’t to much different than yours. I too learned the fine print. I submitted copies that shows the cost of replacement brass. Shipping, tax, and the brass was included in the cost of the part. The PO wouldn’t reimburse the shipping or the postage I paid so I was out $$ too.

You can appeal the decision,I did but it didn’t help.

[Bmi48219]

….. I have several Regional Rate boxes that I can no longer use so I've started putting brass in one of them, padded like it was the outer box, writing the address on the RR box, and putting that inside a padded MFRB.

Double boxing and lots of reinforced tape has always worked for me, but one time the two LFRBs of brass I sent to Texas were deemed undeliverable (unless the customer paid what amounted to additional ground rate postage, $90.00) because although they weren’t broken open the boxes looked like pillows. The Postmaster in Texas said the boxes didn’t qualify for flat rate because they didn’t look like boxes. I explained that they looked like boxes when I shipped them and USPS was responsible for the way they looked when they arrived. Our local postmaster made Texas return them to me at no charge.
But, when double boxing keep in mind you can be fined / double charged for using more than one NEW USPS box per package. They furnish the boxes for the sole purpose of shipping your item, not as added protection for the item.

[jonp]

Oy.. I always use packing tape on all corners and folds then tape around the top a few times, end for end a few and around the sides a couple but nothing will fix an open box. Got a few in the mail that the brass was either put in a one of the USPS envelopes first or double boxed. I think that is the way to go.

Thanks for the info on the shipping, though. I always thought they would reimburse it since they damaged it.

[myg30]

Learned something new today ! Sorry for all that have had damaged goods and lost boxs.
A small f/r box of lead sent to me got lost in shipping. My letter carrier was nice enough to find out where it got lost for me. After a couple days, he told me that the box fell between a transfer conveyer at my local po and only because he was able to track each scan, he knew where it went missing.
He said if it was lighter it would not have tipped and fell, then asked what was in the box lead ? I said exactly and told him I cast boolits. We became friends because he is a reloader and shooter and enjoys the sport.

Mike

[Soundguy]

As some have mentioned. Bagging your product protects..or helps prevent damage from water. Layers help..tape and more tape helps.. I like the cord reinforced tapes.. Lastly..packing and other things like cardboard reinforcement helps. Make it where the contents can't move.. Reinforce corners..if anything is sharp.. Sleeve it. Easily bent things I will slip inside a pipe.. Or tape to a piece of wood.. I'd rather pay 5$ more in tape and shipping and either get my item perfectly..or have your item arrive perfectly.

Lastly.. Take bolts out of guns..wrap and tape to gun.. Extra padding on the muzzle and but. I havlte receiving a rifle with a bolt handle, muzzle or but poking out of a box...

[Outer Rondacker]

When shipping guns I ship a plank of wood on the inside of one of the boxes. A thin piece from a pallet just to keep it getting a broken stock .

[Bmi48219]

When shipping guns I ship a plank of wood on the inside of one of the boxes. A thin piece from a pallet just to keep it getting a broken stock .

I’ve done the same using a leftover pieces of laminate flooring. It has a rubber-like backing that won’t mar the finish if the material you wrap it with tears.

[Rickf1985]

I was buying linotype pigs from a seller in Alaska, some made it but quite a few did not and it wasn't just me not getting them The seller reimbursed all who did not get them and he did some investigation and found that the boxes were never making it onto the plane in Alaska. After reporting this to the postal authorities they apparently found out that there was someone working there that figured out what was in the boxes and was stealing them right off the platform. I guess he decided it wasn't worth it any longer since I lost track of him and he stopped corresponding. I hope they charged the pricks with theft of mail which is a federal offense and a long time in federal prison.

[Rapier]

Oh, my big leaf maple stock blank purchase arrived broken compleatly in half, 3" thick, six inches wide and 48" long. That was interesting. Have no idea how anyone in normal operations could break that piece of hard rock maple. Could not beak that if you used it to run over a pot hole with a loaded duce and a half.
But did get a plastic bag with wet mail in it stamped, aircraft crash, from the Pensacola Bay Delta plane crash. They had boxed up the plastic bag and sent that muddy wet mail to my office. They do make an attempt to do things right.

[John Guedry]

Not too long I placed an order with Inline Fabrication. I got my order with the box totally "messed up" but all contents inside unhurt not even a scratch. Good folks to deal with!