need 357 mag data for 2400 with NO magnum primers

[lx2008]

hi,
as the above title suggests, i dont have any sm pistol mag primers on hand only sm. pistol.
i have always used 296/h110 but only with mag. primers. i did just buy some 2400 so i want to use this
powder to load 357 mag w/ 125gr jhp`s. only problem i`m having is i cant find reliable data for 2400
using standard sm. pistol primers. i looked at loaddata, and some issues of handloader that had 357
load articles but all data i saw was using mag primers.

any suggestion for using 2400, 125gr jhp`s & standard sm primers? (as an aside, i`m wanting to produce stout loads)

thank you!

[Rich/WIS]

Over the years have used a lot of 2400 in 357 and 44 and always used standard primers and had no issues. Did I miss the memo on using magnum primers?

[Ed_Shot]

over the years have used a lot of 2400 in 357 and 44 and always used standard primers and had no issues. Did i miss the memo on using magnum primers?

ditto!!

[atr]

same here....standard primers with 2400 in .357 and .44..no issues

[lx2008]

dont believe anybody missed any memo`s...i just didnt see any data so far for 357mag that that used 2400 and standard primers.
maybe i need to do a little more digging.

if you guys have any links you could post, i would appreciate it.

[racepres]

Yea...I'll weigh in as Only using Mag Primers with Ball powder... (Not the Flattened AA powders tho..they get standard primers also)

[Kai]

dont believe anybody missed any memo`s...i just didnt see any data so far for 357mag that that used 2400 and standard primers.
maybe i need to do a little more digging.

if you guys have any links you could post, i would appreciate it.

Plenty of data out there using standard primers. Actually very little data out there specifying magnum primers with 2400. Here is an example for ya from Handloaddr #234:

313515

[NSB]

First of all, use what you have. You need to get yourself a couple of different loading manuals also. Magnum pistol primers are for powders such as 110 and 296 (not sure you even need them there, but I use them. In fact, I use them for everything since that’s all I have and I have a LOT of them).

[ddixie884]

Lyman #45 lists 2400 with regular primers. You can find this manual online and download it.

[stubshaft]

+1 - I only use magnum primers to light up 296 in my 357's including my Maxi's.

[imashooter2]

The data on the Alliant site uses standard primers with 2400. Hard to get a better authority than the manufacturer.

[Rodfac]

Over the years have used a lot of 2400 in 357 and 44 and always used standard primers Plus one...Rod

[rintinglen]

Speer No. 14. p. 895. 357 Magnum, 125 grain JHP, 2400 powder, OAL 1.575": Start; 16.5 grains, 1335 FPS, Max 17.5, 1409 FPS. CCI 500 PRIMER. (standard Small Pistol.)

Lyman's 50th lists an oal of 1.59 inches and a max of 17.7 grains. Generally speaking, magnum primers add very little pressure, but include a powdered aluminum-based substance that burns a little longer to help insure complete ignition. Additionally, Magnum primers have a slightly thicker cup to help resist primer piercing. My model 14 has a very light trigger and doesn't do well with standard CCI primers, much less Magnum 550's.
All things considered, 2400 will run with standard primers and should work just fine. Any load for a 357 and 2400 can use a Standard primer. This is not the case with H-110/296, who need the extra spark that an SPM primer provides for best ignition..

[justindad]

Some powders are only good for specific applications and can act unpredictably outside those specific uses. Other powders can be used in a wide range of applications without any surprises. Since 2400 is used everywhere from 14ksi .45 Colt loads to rifle loads, you should be good with a standard SPP.

[Kosh75287]

I'VE used 2400 with the Winchester LP (semi-magnum?) primers, and could tell no difference between them and CCI or Federal standard LPs. I guess a reloader MIGHT get a SLIGHT bump in velocity (and pressure) if switching to a magnum pistol primer in a load originally worked up with a standard pistol primer, but I'd bet that the difference would need a chronograph to be measured.
A majority of my magnum-pistol (.357 & .45 Colt for Rugers) reloading is done with 2400 precisely because it does not require magnum primers to assure best ignition. I DO keep true magnum pistol primers around, in case I use IMR-4227, or run across a new propellant recommending their use, but otherwise, they just lay on the shelf & collect dust.
I have NEVER been able to get 2400 to burn completely in a 6" barreled revolver of any caliber. IMR-4227 is worse, even with magnum primers, and offers me no velocity advantage over 2400 in the 6" .357. I have ALMOST obtained complete burning with 2400 in my 7.5" .45 Colt Redhawk, and 2400 performs quite well in it. IMR-4227 gives higher velocities, but the 2400 loads seem to group better.

[pworley1]

You should almost always be able to substitute a standard primer for a magnum primer. You might need to reduce a max load a little if going the other way.

[siamese4570]

I went thru the same exercise. I couldn't tell any difference between the regular and mag primers.
Siamese4570

[Frank V]

A fellow named Elmer Keith used a lot of 2400 & said do not use mag. primers with his loads. Some of his loads were not meek either.

[Thumbcocker]

Never used a magnum primer with any handgun load using 2400, h110, or 296.

[Larry Gibson]

hi,
as the above title suggests, i dont have any sm pistol mag primers on hand only sm. pistol.
i have always used 296/h110 but only with mag. primers. i did just buy some 2400 so i want to use this
powder to load 357 mag w/ 125gr jhp`s. only problem i`m having is i cant find reliable data for 2400
using standard sm. pistol primers. i looked at loaddata, and some issues of handloader that had 357
load articles but all data i saw was using mag primers.

any suggestion for using 2400, 125gr jhp`s & standard sm primers? (as an aside, i`m wanting to produce stout loads)

thank you!

About 11 years ago I developed a 2400 load under the Winchester 125 JHP for use in my Contender 357 magnum. It also shoots well in my 6" Ruger Security Six.

I developed a load 18 gr of Alliant 2400 in Winchester cases using WSP primers under the Winchester 125 JHP. OAL is 1.553. Measured psi in that Contender barrel via the Oehler M43 give a very uniform 33,200 psi. Velocity out of the 7.94" Contender barrel is 1771 fps. This load runs just over 1500 fps out of the Ruger.

A very good magnum level load. Just wish I could get more of those Winchester 125 JHPs....probably never make them available as a component again......:sad:

[Bigbore5]

I use CCI small rifle primers or magnum pistol interchangeable with H110,4227,300-mp, or #9.
Everything else is standard primers.

[curioushooter]

I really enjoy 13.5 grains of 2400 with a 358429. This can be crimped over the driving band for N-frames. It works most excellently in 357 Mag Ubertis as it comes right to the end of the cylinder if you crimp in the groove. Standard primers, but most my small pistol primers are Federal 100 which some consider "hotter" than CCI or Winchester.

[Kosh75287]

I'm a little late to this thread, but here's MY input:

1.) I do not know of an application of 2400 that actually SPECIFIES the use of magnum pistol primers with it. I would EXPECT that 2400 will work as well with hotter primers as it will with standard Small Pistol primers.

2.) In times when I either did not have standard SPPs, or was experimenting, I HAVE used Magnum SPPs and Standard Small Rifle Primers. When doing so, I backed off 10% OR 1.0 gr. from maximum charge weight, whichever was smaller, and worked back up in 0.1 - 0.2 gr. increments, based on what the primers were telling me.
USUALLY, I ended up with smaller extreme spreads and s.d. with the hotter primers. The use of Small Rifle Primers was to avoid pierced primers when going into the "injudicious" range of charge weights with 2400 and 158 gr. hardcast SWCs or RNFPs. The SRPs gave the tightest e.s. & s.d.
The Magnum SPPs gave me a velocity "plateau" w/2400 and 158s, which OFTEN suggests that I am above safe pressures or am about to be. Paradoxically, I experienced no such plateau with the SRPs. I just sorta stopped b/c I'd hit the velocity goal I wanted, and had no wish to turn a fine hunting revolver into a grenade.

3.) Alliant's online site lists 17.5/2400/125 gr. Gold Dot as maximum, delivering 1409 f/s from a ten-inch (!!!) probably unvented barrel. This is 0.5 gr. under what Mr. Larry Gibson listed with the no longer obtainable Winchester 125 gr. bullets. I find fault with neither load, as I am aware that Mr. Gibson is a veteran reloader, who owns pressure testing equipment, and knows VERY well how to use it, and his reloading equipment prudently.

4.) If you cannot obtain 1400+ f/s with a 125 gr. JHP, consider the use of a hard cast, gas-checked 125 gr. projectile, or one that is polymer coated. The higher lubricity/tendency for obturation may elevate velocities/slightly lower pressures to get you where you want to go, without piercing primers or enlarging primer pockets, right and left.
I tried this with some 125 gr. PC'd (Missouri Bullets "9 Cone") and 122 gr. (Rim Rock "TC") cast, uncoated .356" diameter bullets. Velocities were low 1500s for the uncoated bullets, and no leading to speak of. The PC'd bullets were high 1500s, almost 1600, with ZERO leading.
I don't recall the exact charge weight, but seem to remember it being between that of Alliant and Mr. Gibson's load. These loads were fired from a 6" S&W M28, with a flash gap on the narrow side.
Accuracy was GOOD, though not as good as when I used .358" diameter projectiles (understandable since the 125s & 122s were for 9mm/.38 Super). 10-shot group sizes were 1/4 to 1/3 greater compared to the fatter .358s, when shot at a measured 75 yards. On the "minute of ORC/bad-guy" sighting scale, the group size difference was negligible to undetectable at <75 yards.
I have pushed the 122 and the 125 gr. bullets to 1400 f/s (122 gr.) and 1450+ f/s in a .38 Super, with WUNNERFUL accuracy, and no leading issues, so I know they'll go fast. Accuracy actually tightened as velocities increased. I rarely see that, but it was a welcome result.

[R-71]

I’ve used both standard and magnum primers with 2400 and Never had ignition issues with standard primers.

[braddock]

I guess everyone is aware of the short supply of reloading components, here in the uk it's no different.
I managed to get 5000 small rifle primers and have been using them when loading for my 357 mag rossi lever gun.
I use 38sp cases, 38sp+ cases and 357 mag cases.
Powders I use are 2400, acc #5, universal and titegroup. Loads vary from squibs up to full magnum loads and I've had no trouble at all. I have been using 158 grn boolits only including silvalub RN, RNFP, TC and TL swc.
The primers are made by S&B, one of the oldest manufacturers in the world, started in 1825 so they have a little experience.
To put it in perspective, I've loaded and fired nearly 1500 rounds of 223, 308 palma, and 38/357 and each one went bang as expected, not one misfire. These primers are now 20 years old.
Needs must when the devil rides, as the old saying goes.

[Charlie Horse]

They make magnum primers to confuse us.:bigsmyl2:

[braddock]

I'm late to the party, too. FWIW I use standard small rifle primers in 357 and 38 special in my carbine with 2400, it is a small rifle, LOL. I'm just loading a couple hundred magnums as we speak, (stopped for lunch) which brings me up to about 1500 rounds used this way, no unusual events during shooting and no unburnt powder.
I don't have any small pistol primers so SR gets used with all the powder I use, tightgroup, 2400, lovex D036, Universal etc etc. No issues.
Back to the OP, Lee's second edition, 2016 reprint, page 154 "Use standard primers for all powders unless otherwise noted".
I just thumbed through and I can't see any mention of magnum primers though for the 460 and 500 S&W mags they recommend large rifle primers provided your brass is cut for them. I stopped at the 30/378 weatherby which recommended large rifle primers.
I guess the real benefit is the primer makers get richer, quicker on magnum primer sales.

[lotech]

Do some comparison testing. I'd go with what's most accurate or you may find no difference at all.

[firefly1957]

Also late in the conversation!
When I bought my S&W model 28 .357 Mag. in 1975 and started loading for it the gunsmith shop owner told me that I could use either regular or Magnum SPP in CCI but other brands may not have thick enough primer cups and show high pressures before they are. I always used CCI 500 with .357 Magnum & loads HURCULES 2400, AL-8 and CCI-550 for WW 296 & H-110. A couple years ago I substituted Federal SPP for CCI in a starting load of 2400 under a Berry" plated 125 grain bullet the primers looked like the load was way over pressure but the cases fell from the cylinders after firing .

One note the Alliant 2400 seems to be harder to ignite I have a reduced load for 45-70 that worked well with Hercules 2400 but not with Alliant 2400 which does not fire well at all . The new and old powder have a different appearance also.

[Tall]

Over the years have used a lot of 2400 in 357 and 44 and always used standard primers and had no issues. Did I miss the memo on using magnum primers?

Nope same here. I use Winchester small pistol primers with 2400 in 357 brass.