point blank grizz loads 50-100, experience wanted

[hard88cast]

I have a browning 86, 18" barrel built for the 50-100-450. Yes, new top of the line barrel.
I have pretty much settled on 530 grain .512 linbaugh fn hard cast gas check at 1500fps..
450 gr fn linbaugh hard cast gas checked at 1600fps.
or
450 gr Hawke copper jacketed fp at 1600fps.
They all shoot great at 25yds.
Am wondering from experience what is the best load for grizz defense at under 25yds.
The only medium I have tried is a dirt bank with some small dispersed gravel mixed in.
Am looking for experience with point blank grizz charging destruction. Hard cast or jacketed?
All of these bullets found in the dirt/rock bank have hit rock and expanded to 1.000" diam. Gas checks and jackets are still intact.

I understand bone isnt as tough as hitting rock buried in a dirt bank.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
thanks
montana

[huntinlever]

I have a browning 86, 18" barrel built for the 50-100-450. Yes, new top of the line barrel.
I have pretty much settled on 530 grain .512 linbaugh fn hard cast gas check at 1500fps..
450 gr fn linbaugh hard cast gas checked at 1600fps.
or
450 gr Hawke copper jacketed fp at 1600fps.
They all shoot great at 25yds.
Am wondering from experience what is the best load for grizz defense at under 25yds.
The only medium I have tried is a dirt bank with some small dispersed gravel mixed in.
Am looking for experience with point blank grizz charging destruction. Hard cast or jacketed?
All of these bullets found in the dirt/rock bank have hit rock and expanded to 1.000" diam. Gas checks and jackets are still intact.

I understand bone isnt as tough as hitting rock buried in a dirt bank.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
thanks
montana

Not speaking with any authority, but at under 25 yards for purely defense why not a 12 gauge bruiser slug in a dependable pump action?

[HWooldridge]

The hard cast lead will probably shoot through a large bear - with the possible exception of a frontal head shot. That may not be optimum performance for stopping power.

I know they are nowhere near a bear but I’ve shot straight thru several deer with hard cast 455 gr lead bullets from a 45-70 and they acted like it was a fly bite. Obviously, they would have eventually died had I not finished the job, but I found 350 gr Sierra JHP mushroomed and knocked them down. If I were going to use a lead bullet, I’d probably go with a softer alloy.

[Rapidrob]

Look up .50 Alaskan loads. Several for bear.

[huntinlever]

The hard cast lead will probably shoot through a large bear - with the possible exception of a frontal head shot. That may not be optimum performance for stopping power.

I know they are nowhere near a bear but I’ve shot straight thru several deer with hard cast 455 gr lead bullets from a 45-70 and they acted like it was a fly bite. Obviously, they would have eventually died had I not finished the job, but I found 350 gr Sierra JHP mushroomed and knocked them down. If I were going to use a lead bullet, I’d probably go with a softer alloy.

Side note but re deer, my experience more than I'm truly comfortable with, to be honest. Absent a shoulder shot, which has always done as intended, strongly makes me reconsider the BHN of my alloy.

[MarkP]

A friend of my dad's was a game biologist in Alaska until the late 80's or so. When my dad visited him he said he carried a short bbl 12 ga pump loaded with slugs everywhere he went when working in remote areas.

[HWooldridge]

How many shells does your ‘86 hold? I would guess no more than 3-4 in the magazine and one up the pipe. You could alternate soft and hard cast, then plan to just keep shooting until the rifle is empty. I’ve never hunted bear but I don’t think the term “overkill” would apply to me…LOL

[BLAHUT]

I have a browning 86, 18" barrel built for the 50-100-450. Yes, new top of the line barrel.
I have pretty much settled on 530 grain .512 linbaugh fn hard cast gas check at 1500fps..
450 gr fn linbaugh hard cast gas checked at 1600fps.
or
450 gr Hawke copper jacketed fp at 1600fps.
They all shoot great at 25yds.
Am wondering from experience what is the best load for grizz defense at under 25yds.
The only medium I have tried is a dirt bank with some small dispersed gravel mixed in.
Am looking for experience with point blank grizz charging destruction. Hard cast or jacketed?
All of these bullets found in the dirt/rock bank have hit rock and expanded to 1.000" diam. Gas checks and jackets are still intact.

I understand bone isnt as tough as hitting rock buried in a dirt bank.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
thanks
montana

My bear gun is a 45/70 Guide gun, 515 grfp, pure lead, 100% energy transfer, 27gr of 5744, Mag primer, about 1200 PS, Guide gun carries 7 rounds, a shotgun carries 5 rounds, hard lead bullets goes straight through, unless you hit bone, pure lead hits like a freight train, stays together and transfers all its energy, very accurate. Carried this when fishing in Alaska.

[indian joe]

My bear gun is a 45/70 Guide gun, 515 grfp, pure lead, 100% energy transfer, 27gr of 5744, Mag primer, about 1200 PS, Guide gun carries 7 rounds, a shotgun carries 5 rounds, hard lead bullets goes straight through, unless you hit bone, pure lead hits like a freight train, stays together and transfers all its energy, very accurate. Carried this when fishing in Alaska.

I never shot a bear - nor likely to - but soft lead makes sense - (hard cast drills calibre size holes until you hit heavy bone) - softer you get good expansion and energy transfer without the excess explosiveness that sometimes comes with a jacket slug up close - have done some end on shots (and shoulder shots) on hogs with a 348 and the soft lead/gascheck is a more effective answer than a hornady 200grain jacketed

[StrawHat]

As I remember from reading about the great Hunters of Africa, Asia and the Americas, when they were going after the heavy hitters that could stomp, gore, bite or otherwise hurt the hunter, the bullet of choice was a solid. For things like cats and other “thin skinned” beasts, a soft point of some sort. And then there were those that said, solids for everything. One bullet, one load, one sighting, no variables to mess with things when the going gets tough.

I use a harder alloy bullet when hunting. I want two holes in the hide. While I have not gone out of my way to shoot bear, I have hunted in bear country and felt fine with my choice of loads.

Kevin

[Gunlaker]

You won't need a lot of shots. If a grizzly charges you from 25 yards you'll be lucky to get one aimed shot off.

Chris.

[Shawlerbrook]

What he ^^^ said !

[huntinlever]

Given a grizzly can exceed 30 mph, 25 yards is about 1 1/2 seconds. That's 1 1/2 adrenaline-filled. stone freaked seconds. I know for sure I wouldn't want to trust keeping my cool for the well-aimed shot.

I vaguely remember a youtube vid of some swedes or some some such nordic guys killing a fully charging brown bear, taking 3 shots if I remember right, with a 12 gauge slug. The time to closing distance was insanely fast.

[hard88cast]

Thanks for the responses.
I shoot autos for geese, no switching to pumps.
Shot many deer with my 45-90, broadside and thru the lungs, this wont be broadside.
Full length mag tube, six in the tube and one in the pipe.
I thought about softer lead, I think that would be great for a broadside shot, Not sure about the deformation/glance off of heavy bone frontal shot(I have no experience with that, just thinking this thru).

I play most weekends in the summer/fall in solid grizz country, I almost dont want to go up there any more as Ive had many encounters with the local grizz, and only once had to retreat into a lake almost to my neck before he got out of the water and wandered off. Just looking for the best one shot frontal kill lucky kill shot.

I am not hunting bear, nor do I plan to, this rifle/cartridge sole purpose is point blank defense.
I know how fast a bear can cover ground, am not saying I would be able to handle it, I have stood my ground several times to charging Kodiaks to 20' before they stopped in the alaskan salmon streams with no weapon of any type on me(NEVER go there again). But I will say that at the time I was 50/50 in the belief they were all false charges because the different bears did not have the head lowered down or there ears folded back, thats the key.

This will only be defensive shooting under 25', so the bear is going to be full frontal, that means almost all bone, hump, head, frontal shoulders and sternum. Not much for soft tissue. My thoughts were that soft lead or jacketed will deform to much and slide off and deflect on the big bones, but I may be wrong, thats why any thoughts are much appreciated.
thanks

[MakeMineA10mm]

I’ve never shot a Griz or been charged at by one, but I’ve read a lot from those who have. Bear defense is no joke!

First thought is bear spray/wasp spray/high-percentage pepper spray. Why? Because it’s more likely to give a “hit” in an “Oh Sh!t” moment when your stress hormones and adrenaline dump into your system. They also have a pretty good track record of dissuading bears.

My second thought is to use a 12-ga with Brenneke Slugs. This pokes a .72”-caliber hole vs. the .512”-caliber hole of the rifle. Also shoguns are designed for fast handling and recoil less than that rifle. Brennekes are known for their weight, power, and penetration.

Third, and no offense is meant to any prior poster, but shooting soft lead bullets is a horrible idea. The purpose you outlined is NOT shooting a broadside dear and looking for expansion. You said “a charging grizzly at close range.” That’s a headshot at a bear with a gaping mouth (prepared to clamp onto you), and your aim point will be the nose/eye triangle. Grizzly skulls are incredibly thick/strong. You want a bullet that will bust through that bone and deliver shock and awe to the brain. Elmer Keith described a bear shot several times with a handgun at close range, and the soft lead bullets all “expanded” against the skull of the bear, none of them penetrating to the brain. That’s the error of soft lead.

Lastly, I strongly recommend lots of practice, under pressure, at snap shooting. Like others above said, Grizz move VERY fast. You’ll likely get only 1 shot, maybe 2 if you’re lucky AND good with your weapon.

[indian joe]

I’ve never shot a Griz or been charged at by one, but I’ve read a lot from those who have. Bear defense is no joke!

First thought is bear spray/wasp spray/high-percentage pepper spray. Why? Because it’s more likely to give a “hit” in an “Oh Sh!t” moment when your stress hormones and adrenaline dump into your system. They also have a pretty good track record of dissuading bears.

My second thought is to use a 12-ga with Brenneke Slugs. This pokes a .72”-caliber hole vs. the .512”-caliber hole of the rifle. Also shoguns are designed for fast handling and recoil less than that rifle. Brennekes are known for their weight, power, and penetration.

Third, and no offense is meant to any prior poster, but shooting soft lead bullets is a horrible idea. The purpose you outlined is NOT shooting a broadside dear and looking for expansion. You said “a charging grizzly at close range.” That’s a headshot at a bear with a gaping mouth (prepared to clamp onto you), and your aim point will be the nose/eye triangle. Grizzly skulls are incredibly thick/strong. You want a bullet that will bust through that bone and deliver shock and awe to the brain. Elmer Keith described a bear shot several times with a handgun at close range, and the soft lead bullets all “expanded” against the skull of the bear, none of them penetrating to the brain. That’s the error of soft lead.

Lastly, I strongly recommend lots of practice, under pressure, at snap shooting. Like others above said, Grizz move VERY fast. You’ll likely get only 1 shot, maybe 2 if you’re lucky AND good with your weapon.

my idea of "soft" is a softish alloy rather than the common non deforming hard cast - would be little different in deformation rate than a brenneke slug.
have read others recommend the spray as a better option

head shooting a charging bear is gonna be an issue of muscle memory and instinct above all else ---bear, hog, buffalo or whatever once an angry male commits to the full charge - nothing short of a paralysing shot will stop it - they keep coming past the point of being technically dead.

[hard88cast]

Sorry, been gone on business.
I get plenty of free cans of new bear spray from the airport, people think they can fly home with it, no no, tsa takes it. Im not going to talk down on bear spray,and I do carry bear spray, and it has its place, I would say against a black bear or maybe 3 year old rambunkshish grizz twins who mom just kicked out, they are always looking for trouble and to prove themselves. But once a grizz decides its full on attack bear spray isnt going to stop his decision(no way), until about 5/10 seconds have passed, thats after he has your head or shoulder in his mouth and he starts breathing again, then it may take effect. Thats my belief from dealing with them for 40yrs. Bear spray is what fish and game tell people to use, mainly because 95% of bear interactions are false charges and they dont want people shooting all the bears or each other by mistake, I can agree with there thoughts.
If your unlucky enough to stumble on a grizz feeding on an elk at 30' or a sow and cubs or walking up on a sleeping bear, usually(almost always) you have time to make a decision which is usually the case, at least with my experience. Making noise in the bush is the best thing to do.They are not out there hunting us.
I dont know how hard the MBW cast slugs are, If I remember correctly I thought they said in the low bhn20s. Hitting some small gravel in a dirt bank expands then to an honest 1" and they dont come apart, to me that sounds like a real good bullet for frontal bone smashing, but again no actual experience.
I have seriously considered a twelve gauge but it would have to be an auto since I only use autos and I know I would forget to pump a pump. And then its the issue of an auto getting dirt in it while mining and jamming. Maybe the shotgun is the best, I just have no experience with this.
In Montana if the Bear doesnt have powder burns or residue in its mouth you are in trouble with the feds, bigtime, and the feds are not good people like the local old time wardens"we use to have here in Montana".
So again, at the distance bear spray sprays, 20 ft max in reality(with the perfect breeze), you are just out of luck on a bear thats made a decision to beat you up.
Back to the bullets, jacketed or somewhat hardcast.

[HWooldridge]

I inherited my grandfather’s old 12 ga Remington model 11, which was made in the early 1930’s. It absolutely will not jam with “high brass” or heavy loads, no matter how dirty it gets. It gets torn down once a year for a detail strip and always amazes me how much trash comes pouring out of the nooks and crannies. I would have no qualms carrying it against dangerous game, whether man or beast.

[36g]

I noticed last year in sporting goods/gun stores in Bozeman and Livingstone, MT that they all had "Bear Loads" for handguns (mostly .44 Mag and 10 mm). Said bear loads were either heavy hard cast lead or FP FMJ. I would suspect that similar loads for rifles would be wise - heavy, large caliber hard cast lead or FP FMJ. Shotgun slugs would fit that bill also.

[BLAHUT]

I noticed last year in sporting goods/gun stores in Bozeman and Livingstone, MT that they all had "Bear Loads" for handguns (mostly .44 Mag and 10 mm). Said bear loads were either heavy hard cast lead or FP FMJ. I would suspect that similar loads for rifles would be wise - heavy, large caliber hard cast lead or FP FMJ. Shotgun slugs would fit that bill also.

Gun stores sell what the salesman tells them is good stuff. All points raised here are good, now I will say, when any of you have lived in gris country for many years, you may find that the book learning you have, is invalid, in real life. If a grisly has decided to charge and is serious, then there are only one of two things that are going to happen, one, the bear dies, two, you die, that is all the choices there are... I have great respect for the bears, black bears or grizzly's, Have lived in there territory for many years, black bears, IMHO, are worse, more likely to cause problems and want a piece of you..

[freakonaleash]

I'm going to continue to hunt and fish in Iowa and not worry about grizz.

[hard88cast]

36g, I live in Bozeman, and I have noticed those same loads on the shelf. I personally believe that these MBW 530/450 gr bullets that expand to a solid 1.ooo" of semi hard cast are the way to go. But with no experience actually shooting a charging bear, thats why I posted this blog.
My main reason for this post was how important is the velocity of these big slugs, 1600 with a 450 gr or 1500 with a 530 gr. OR,,, is 1200fps with either of these loads good enough?

[hard88cast]

Blahut
I agree with your post on black bears vs grizz. Most grizz are friendly, or at least non nonchalant, its the sudden interaction at close range that causes problems. Now with black bears if they pay "any" attention to you they plan on eating you no two ways about it. Luckily up here the black bears are scared of there own shadows for the most part.
And your right again, if the grizz decides your in his territory and he has made a decision for full frontal attack you might as well throw your bear spray away because it will do NOTHING but blind the sprayer. You either whack him or go full fetal and let him chew for a bit.
For all you out there I dont mean to degrade all your bear spray thoughts, carry it because 90% of grizz charges will end 10-30ft and you can practice spraying on those bears which may help the next person with that same bear. Ive had many times I could have shot grizz at 30 ft, but rarely is there a reason to, they are actually for the most part very docile., other then the odd one. And thats the one you need to know how to read, and its quite easy to read them, and usually you can read them. Thats exactly why the feds require powder burns in there mouth if you kill one. Point Blank.....

[Doughty]

hard88cast, I have not shot any grizzlies. I have shot two wounded black bears in the head. One, a good sized male, with a .308 Win, jacketed 150s at about 20 yards. The skull was "mushy" but the bullet did not exit. Two, a small female, with a .45 Colt, air cooled WWs at about 5 yards. The skull was somewhat "mushy" and the bullet did penetrate completely. Not the exact answer to your question, but maybe of some use.

My opinion, you are right on with your choice of weapon. Any of your mentioned loads would be fine. Whichever you can shoot the best. I would not discount the need and ability for quick follow up shot(s).

[hard88cast]

Doughty, Thanks for the info on the b bear skulls. I am practicing my quick follow up shots. John, my gunsmith did a fine job on carving out the innards so this 50-100 cartridge would load correctly. I did have to come up with my own specs for my reloads as the 50-100 was really designed for a round nose bullet, but I have these flat nose MBW bullets and load specs down perfect, this rifle will extract and load the next shell 100% of the time and as fast as I can work the lever as long as I fully lever the action.

[36g]

36g, I live in Bozeman, and I have noticed those same loads on the shelf. I personally believe that these MBW 530/450 gr bullets that expand to a solid 1.ooo" of semi hard cast are the way to go. But with no experience actually shooting a charging bear, thats why I posted this blog.
My main reason for this post was how important is the velocity of these big slugs, 1600 with a 450 gr or 1500 with a 530 gr. OR,,, is 1200fps with either of these loads good enough?

I can only speculate, never having shot a bear. My suspicion is that a 1200 fps loading would allow a quicker follow up shot(s). A suggestion would be to go to a local butcher or slaughterhouse and get some cattle leg or hip bones, set them up at a 30 degree angle to bullet path with a solid anchor at your selected distance, and fire away. Judge the performance and your comfort level with that performance. If so desired, pack any voids with clay.

[BLAHUT]

Not speaking with any authority, but at under 25 yards for purely defense why not a 12 gauge bruiser slug in a dependable pump action?

Most 12 gauge slugs, which is SoftLEAD and runs about 0ne 0nce ( about 437 grs ) a .515 gr bullet out of a 45/70 weights about 77grs. more and the rifle carries 7 vers 5 in the shotgun.

[huntinlever]

Most 12 gauge slugs, which is SoftLEAD and runs about 0ne 0nce ( about 437 grs ) a .515 gr bullet out of a 45/70 weights about 77grs. more and the rifle carries 7 vers 5 in the shotgun.

Sorry, Blahut - so which would you be suggesting - the 45-70?

[JFE]

No experience with bears, but if I was in your position I’d contact Phil Shoemaker. He’s an Alaskan master guide who has many years of experience hunting grizzly bears for a living. He’s also a gun nut and has used a lot of different cartridges on bear. His stopper is a 458 Winchester and it’s been his favourite for many years now. He goes by the handle ‘458Win ’ and frequents the Accurate Reloading and 24HourCampfire forums.

[huntinlever]

Any love for the .454 Casull?

[BLAHUT]

Sorry, Blahut - so which would you be suggesting - the 45-70?

My 45/70, as explained above.

[GONRA]

After reading all this, GONRA believes hard88cast needs a sack of hand grenades! !!

[samari46]

Well you have the 50 caliber part right,except you need a belt fed to top it off. Me, I opt out anything that may try to eat me. Frank

[longbow]

I have not had to shoot at a grizzly or black bear so far so no experience here. I live in bear country and often see large black bears and occasionally grizzlys. As mentioned above, dangerous game cartridges tend to use bullets designed to penetrate, not expand. Everything I have read about dangerous game cartridges and bullets indicates that penetration is what is wanted. I certainly would not use a soft lead bullet!

Maybe read here and note that the bullets recommended for dangerous game are hard cast or solid copper/brass:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=153

Item 8A -- for game where 5 to 6 feet of straight line non-expanded penetration is needed.
Item 8C -- The bullet we utilize in this load is very tough and gives only a small to moderately sized mushroom (about .60 cal) and because of the smallish mushroom, it penetrates very deep -- about 4 feet in muscles and bone and as such is a great bullet for use on dangerous game and on smaller game too as it does expand some. This load is the most versatile of our 45-70 loads.
Item 8D -- This bullet is a solid and won't mushroom and thus will penetrate 5 to 6 feet in muscle and bone.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/about.html

Our 45-70 Hammerhead Ammo has been used to take all the heaviest game in North America and Africa, including the African Big Six. Our 420-grain Hammerhead Ammo and 350-grain SuperJack Ammo provides brutal performance on all thin-skinned game up to about 1200-lbs (350-grain SuperJack) and about 1500 pounds (420-grain Hammerhead), out to about 220-yds. Our 540-gr Hammerhead Ammo is the ultimate heavy bear stopper. It is also very useful in heavy cover, delivering full body-length penetration against heavy game, and allowing bad-angle shots. With its super-blunt frontal flat (meplat) it does tremendous damage and anchors heavy game with dispatch.

A charging grizzly is dangerous game and you will want more than 2' or 3' of penetration! Think of how big a large grizzly is and that you are likely going to be shooting it in the face or neck so the bullet has to travel a ways before it hits vitals unless you manage to penetrate the skull for a brain shot which would be largely luck under the circumstances. You want that bullet to go through everything it can to reach and mangle the vital organs and break bones along the way if it meets any.

Also, heavy bullets tend to penetrate better than lighter bullets at high velocity.

You are using a .50-100 so same logic of a heavy hard bullet would apply in my opinion.

This is my take anyway, YMMV.

Longbow

[hard88cast]

Sounds like Buffalo bore and Garret cartridges did the bear testing for me and my loads are right in there with there loads.
Thanks for the links longbow, good reading. I've been reloading so long I never think to look at manufacturers sites.

[Three44s]

After reading all this, GONRA believes hard88cast needs a sack of hand grenades! !!

I think my vote goes for this!

LOL!

Three44s

[gc45]

My bear gun is a 45/70 Guide gun, 515 grfp, pure lead, 100% energy transfer, 27gr of 5744, Mag primer, about 1200 PS, Guide gun carries 7 rounds, a shotgun carries 5 rounds, hard lead bullets goes straight through, unless you hit bone, pure lead hits like a freight train, stays together and transfers all its energy, very accurate. Carried this when fishing in Alaska.

And a very common sense load, all around.

[braddock]

Returning to the OP I think the bullets etc are fine the best one will be the one you've practiced the most with on moving targets.
The Norwegians have trouble with ice bears killing tourists up in svalbard, Their recommended minimum caliber used to be 308 win with solid shot.
Those bears grow bigger than browns and they actively hunt anything that moves for fodder, including people.
Don't lose sight of the fact that when a bear is running you down, it's head doesn't stay still, moving up and down considerably at a pace commensurate with the gallop.
Frontal shots toward the top of the head will either hit it and stop it or miss the head and go on to penetrate forward of the shoulder, maybe cutting the spine but, if not, will continue on into the body cavity and have the pulmonary mass in front of it, not as quick as the head or spine shot but whilst he does a half flip you can jump out the way and start getting in those shoulder shots to anchor him.
Finally if all this fails draw your bowie knife and very quickly sever your own jugular vein, it'll save you a lot of grief. Talking ice bears here, where you are intended to be a meal.
Going back to my first sentence, to practice get a 50 pound burlap sack and pack it tight with sawdust, seal the open end by sewing up with sail twine. Put this inside of another burlap sack, but the sewn up open end goes to the closed end of the second bag then sew that one up.
Fit a couple of brass eyes to this sewn up end, fit a rope to it and have someone fasten that to the tow hitch of their truck at a suitable distance behind.
Get them to drive past you so the sack is like running you down at whatever speed you like.
Practice until you can hit it every shot. When you got that situation your good to go. Best to start with a 357 mag lever gun which will have similar bullet flight time as your loads then progress to the 1886 when you got the hang of it.
The sack should be a similar size to a bears head vitals, shooting his jaw off will only piss him off and he still got his claws.
Bears ain't that hard to kill see https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/what-22-rifle-did-bella-twin-use-to-kill-a-world-record-grizzly-in-1953/
Best of luck - it's your life.

[indian joe]

After reading all this, GONRA believes hard88cast needs a sack of hand grenades! !!

dont a hand grenade take 7 seconds from pull pin to kaboom ? ya better throw it while hes still makin up his mind whats for dinner

[36g]

dont a hand grenade take 7 seconds from pull pin to kaboom ? ya better throw it while hes still makin up his mind whats for dinner

I'd suggest an M79 Thumper, but even there you've got a 14-27 meter arming distance...

[shrapnel]

I have hunted in grizzly country my entire life. I have killed one of those and it wasn’t charging. One shot between the eyes with a 25-35.

I would never take the 25-35 as a bear gun, but as a kid, that is all I hunted with. As has been mentioned before, the chance of getting any calculated shots on a charging bear is slim. They are huge and fast. When they have determined that you are the target, you don’t have much time to change their mind.

I don’t know what you want to do in grizzly country, but unless you were there with the rifle in your hands, ready to shoot, you really don’t have much of a chance with a charging bear. I also don’t see why anyone would want to be hiking around in grizzly country, carrying a rifle for protection. Maybe a different source of entertainment would be a better choice.

We had these bears around where we were hunting elk last fall and I don’t feel very welcome in the woods with creatures like this walking around looking for something to eat…


https://i.postimg.cc/rFgQ8PPn/297-C1404-EBB5-46-F3-8192-436-AD12-AA495.jpg (https://postimg.cc/N591DpYm)

https://i.postimg.cc/MGH42SZm/402-D324-C-5-AA4-485-F-8-E9-F-9-FBF015-BD268.jpg (https://postimg.cc/PLGKY0wC)

[725]

I've only killed black bear with a .308, .458 WM & .45-70. Never encountered a grizzly. Standard ammo with nothing exotic. Any on your list would seem fine to me if you can keep 'em on target. I'd opt for soft as hard does penetrate, because unless you whack a vital, a penetrating shot might just make it more angry. A rifle / shotgun is formidable but wieldy compared to a handgun. If you are ready with a long gun, you're in fine shape. If you get surprised, a handgun in a good holster might be better. A long gun leaning against the tree, not so much.

My buddy was mauled by a grizzly. He didn't recognize the bear until it was just a few feet away. They can move like the wind and are as noisy as a shadow when they want to be. He was tossed like a rag doll for the first attack. No way he could have held on to a long gun at first contact. The bear tossed him aside, turned to look at something else (probably her cubs), and by the time she turned back to finish him off, he was able to draw his single action .41 mag and do her in. Three shots and she fell at his feet. A lesser man would have died.

We all envision our hunting plans, zombie encounters, Alamo defenses, & Sgt. York shots with an eye towards our skill driven successes. Life has a way of throwing us that unexpected curve and laughs at our defeats. Be prepared and watch your "6".

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK I got here late, but I think you'd be much better off using a 12 ga. shotgun with 1 oz. slugs at 1600 fps. The TKO for a 12 ga. is above a .458 Win Mag and the reason why is the Larger Frontal Area of the slug (.73 caliber) which will dump all it's energy on the target, as opposed to a pass thru that dumps 50% of the energy in the dirt beyond.

I have a Browning A5 (6th Pic below) that I have a rifled barrel on, and it is very accurate out to 100 yards with my 550 gr brass tipped slugs. I can get 4 shots on 4 different targets from the "Ready" in 2 seconds when I'm up to speed.

You need to be carrying said gun "cross body" so you've got some chance of actually getting it on the target if surprised. I can run a Pump Gun Pretty well (4th pic) so I would probably be carrying that, as it is a lighter gun and thus easier to carry. Also you can buy Butt Kicker Brenneke Slugs (3rd Pic) that will knock down anything on the planet for < $10 a box so you don't have to load them yourself. Also you need Rifle Sights on your gun so you can accurately place said Slugs where they will do the most good! Like between his eyes.

In Most cases I recommend "Low Recoil Tactical Ammunition" either Buckshot or Slugs with nothing over 1300 fps. However for Big Bears "High Base Slugs" running at 1600 fps would be more appropriate, hence my recommendation of the Brenneke Slugs (3rd pic below). The 2nd pic is a Brenneke Knock Off Slug that you can load yourself.

Randy