.32 acp ?

[warren5421]

If not appropriate please delete

I load 3.0 gr Red Dot and a cast 98 gr RNFP bullet, shooting it out of a 1903 Colt Hammerless made in 1916 or 1925. This load is just a little hotter than Buffalo Bore's round. While looking at Underwood Ammo I came across Underwood 32 ACP 55GR. XTREME DEFENDER SOLID MONOLITHIC HUNTING & SELF DEFENSE AMMO. Anyone know how it stacks up to Buffalo Bore's .32 ACP round. I just don't see anything replacing the cast lead bullet in the .32 ACP. My rounds wound path, used on a saddle back coyote, looked like it was a pool ball the way it bounced around inside, doing much more damage than my 10mm. Both coyote dropped on the spot, no running.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

After lots and lots of years in the gun hobby/business I just acquired my very first .32 ACP pistols. I haven't fired either of them yet, but soon, very soon. I ordered two boxes of different ammo for them from Midway, and also acquired some dies here on the Forum. Marshall and Sanow have some interesting tales to tell about them in the "Street Stopper" series of books. Apparently the European Police were quite satisfied with the round's performance for many years; but now, like everyone else have gone to the 9mm. The two pistols I got are pretty much collector items, and I don't anticipate that they will replace my .45 ACP, just fill slots in my collection. :grin:

DG

[BC17A]

3 grains of RD with a 98gn boolit? Wow!!! I've loaded 2 grains of RD with a 73gn boolit for my Beretta Tomcat and it easily exceeds the 130FP max energy that the manual recommends. 3 grains would probably be +P+ without question.

[Soundguy]

I shoot cast in my 32..im thinking 75 or 85gr and red dot...dont recall charge weight right off bat..but it's a small range and I'm near the max published to get good reliable function..as most semi auto like.

[racepres]

3 grains of RD with a 98gn boolit? Wow!!! I've loaded 2 grains of RD with a 73gn boolit for my Beretta Tomcat and it easily exceeds the 130FP max energy that the manual recommends. 3 grains would probably be +P+ without question.

Oh... I use 2.3 under a 98grSWC in the 32 S&W L. It is fairly Mild... tho the ACP round is a bit shorter (not as short as the 32S&W tho) it also is rated at a Much Higher PSI by SAAMI.. Guessing that 3.0 gr is simply at the high end!! But Only @ Larry Gibson may know for sure...

[Thumbcocker]

Seems too hot to me. Those 1903's are sweet little guns. I treat mine gently.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230422/253e6783ab3a2f463048c1cc69d40078.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Larry Gibson]

I have not yet pressure tested any 32 ACP loads, but I could?

[Thumbcocker]

Lyman 49thhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230422/b88dc731e598366e759c2d70001c7fe5.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[racepres]

^^^ Holy Ssssmokes^^ That sure seems Very mild indeed... Will it even cycle the action???

[hoodat]

That 3 Gr. of Red Dot, and a 98 Gr. bullet sounds like a 380 load. I'd be interested in knowing what book you saw your load in.

Red dot is indeed one of the common powders for this little cartridge, but I find no published loads with more than 2.7 grains, and that is with much lighter bullets. Not tryin to be an old woman, but I'd hate to see ya break your pistol or hurt yourself. jd

[BC17A]

Is it any wonder why firearms manufacturers won't honor the warranty when reloaded ammo is used?

[racepres]

Is it any wonder why firearms manufacturers won't honor the warranty when reloaded ammo is used?

Who told ya That???
and
How in the Wide World of Sports would they Know what ammo was used???

[P Flados]

I did a couple of QL runs.

First is the "best case". I have a custom NLG TC 98 gr that I have used loading 32s. It is very short for a 98 gr, only 0.503" long. Some 32 ACPs may be able to handle a round 0.010" over SAAMI length. Combining these gets seating depth down to only 0.186".



Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .312, 98, NLG TC
Useable Case Capaci: 5.678 grain H2O = 0.369 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.994 inch = 25.25 mm
Barrel Length : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm
Powder : Alliant RED DOT

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-28.0 69 1.80 786 134 14996 2388 100.0 0.664
-24.0 73 1.90 816 145 16643 2492 100.0 0.632
-20.0 77 2.00 845 155 18390 2595 100.0 0.602
-16.0 81 2.10 873 166 20238 2697 100.0 0.576 ! Near Maximum !
-12.0 84 2.20 901 176 22190 2800 100.0 0.552 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 88 2.30 927 187 24247 2901 100.0 0.530 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 92 2.40 953 198 26412 3003 100.0 0.510 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 96 2.50 979 208 28689 3103 100.0 0.491 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 100 2.60 1003 219 31079 3203 100.0 0.474 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 104 2.70 1028 230 33587 3303 100.0 0.458 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+12.0 107 2.80 1052 241 36216 3401 100.0 0.444 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+16.0 111 2.90 1075 252 38970 3499 100.0 0.430 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+20.0 115 3.00 1099 263 41853 3596 100.0 0.417 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


Next I ran a Lee 93 gr bullet at default OAL. Seating depth increases to 0.226".



Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Useable Case Capaci: 4.911 grain H2O = 0.319 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.984 inch = 24.99 mm
Barrel Length : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm
Powder : Alliant RED DOT

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-24.0 84 1.90 859 152 18896 2420 100.0 0.585
-20.0 89 2.00 889 163 20973 2516 100.0 0.558 ! Near Maximum !
-16.0 93 2.10 919 175 23184 2613 100.0 0.533 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-12.0 98 2.20 948 186 25533 2708 100.0 0.510 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-08.0 102 2.30 977 197 28025 2803 100.0 0.490 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 106 2.40 1004 208 30665 2898 100.0 0.471 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 111 2.50 1031 220 33459 2991 100.0 0.453 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 115 2.60 1058 231 36412 3084 100.0 0.437 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 120 2.70 1084 243 39532 3176 100.0 0.423 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+12.0 124 2.80 1109 254 42826 3267 100.0 0.409 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+16.0 129 2.90 1135 266 46302 3358 100.0 0.396 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+20.0 133 3.00 1159 278 49968 3447 100.0 0.384 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


If I could compress the powder as noted, I could safely fire a 3.0 gr Red Dot under a 98 gr bullet load in my stub tube Contender, but trust me I am not going to.

[Outpost75]

I have loaded .32 ACP for years. Safe loads with 75-83 grain cast bullets are 2 grains of Bullseye.or TiteGroup., 2.5 grains of 231 or HP38. Minimum ctg. OAL 0.955".

With 84-93-grain bullets 2.5 grains of Unique or 3 grains AutoComp. Minimum ctg. OAL 0.955". Full charges not to be exceeded.

Do not shoot bullets heavier than 80 grains at over 850 fps in Beretta Tomcat or Keltec, as they are "frame crackers."

[dondiego]

Who told ya That???
and
How in the Wide World of Sports would they Know what ammo was used???

Every manufacturer states in their manual that handloads void the warrantee.

[BC17A]

Every manufacturer states in their manual that handloads void the warrantee.

You beat me to it. Every owners manual I have says exactly that.

[billmc2]

If not appropriate please delete

I load 3.0 gr Red Dot and a cast 98 gr RNFP bullet, shooting it out of a 1903 Colt Hammerless made in 1916 or 1925. This load is just a little hotter than Buffalo Bore's round. While looking at Underwood Ammo I came across Underwood 32 ACP 55GR. XTREME DEFENDER SOLID MONOLITHIC HUNTING & SELF DEFENSE AMMO. Anyone know how it stacks up to Buffalo Bore's .32 ACP round. I just don't see anything replacing the cast lead bullet in the .32 ACP. My rounds wound path, used on a saddle back coyote, looked like it was a pool ball the way it bounced around inside, doing much more damage than my 10mm. Both coyote dropped on the spot, no running.

Nobody has answered your question yet.
I don't have any experience with the 32 ACP load but what Underwood is using is the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defender bullet. Its designed to be a non expanding bullet. It uses fluid dynamics to create the wound channel. I've seen videos of the 9mm jello tests and they've convinced me. I carry it in 380 and 9mm.

[GhostHawk]

I shoot my .32acp with 2 grains of Red Dot and a 90 gr cast.
Same load in my .32sw long.

In 9mm I'll go to 3 and above but not in the .32's.

[trapper9260]

I have loaded .32 ACP for years. Safe loads with 75-83 grain cast bullets are 2 grains of Bullseye.or TiteGroup., 2.5 grains of 231 or HP38. Minimum ctg. OAL 0.955".

With 84-93-grain bullets 2.5 grains of Unique or 3 grains AutoComp. Minimum ctg. OAL 0.955". Full charges not to be exceeded.

Do not shoot bullets heavier than 80 grains at over 850 fps in Beretta Tomcat or Keltec, as they are "frame crackers."

Thanks for the warning on not to use in the Beretta Tomcat or Keltec.

[warren5421]

My pistol round is: Red Dot: 2.3 gr; .311 dia. 75 gr. RNFP; Starline brass; Primer: WSP; O.A.L. .943".
It is a hot load used in my 1903's

[jdgabbard]

That 3 Gr. of Red Dot, and a 98 Gr. bullet sounds like a 380 load. I'd be interested in knowing what book you saw your load in.

Red dot is indeed one of the common powders for this little cartridge, but I find no published loads with more than 2.7 grains, and that is with much lighter bullets. Not tryin to be an old woman, but I'd hate to see ya break your pistol or hurt yourself. jd

That is precisely what I thought when I read the load - it sounded more like my 380 loads than a 32acp load... I don't shoot 32acp, but definitely sounds pretty hot to me.

As to the OP's question, I can't comment. As mentioned, I don't shoot 32acp.

[Outpost75]

Thanks for the warning on not to use in the Beretta Tomcat or Keltec.

Bullet of choice for Keltec and Beretta Tomcat is Accurate 31-077B with 2 grains of Red Dot or TiteGroup, 2.3 of Bullseye, 3 grains Unique or Autocomp at min OAL 0.955" for 830 fps from 2.4" barrel.

[Soundguy]

I have loaded .32 ACP for years. Safe loads with 75-83 grain cast bullets are 2 grains of Bullseye.or TiteGroup., 2.5 grains of 231 or HP38. Minimum ctg. OAL 0.955".

With 84-93-grain bullets 2.5 grains of Unique or 3 grains AutoComp. Minimum ctg. OAL 0.955". Full charges not to be exceeded.

Do not shoot bullets heavier than 80 grains at over 850 fps in Beretta Tomcat or Keltec, as they are "frame crackers."

Uh.. Negative ghost rider... My keltec p32 has digested untold amounts of 85gr lead. It's still my every day carry exercise gun with an extended magazine. I wear it in a belly band holster. Again.. It's digested many....

[TD1886]

Uh.. Negative ghost rider... My keltec p32 has digested untold amounts of 85gr lead. It's still my every day carry exercise gun with an extended magazine. I wear it in a belly band holster. Again.. It's digested many....

I agree with you. I've even shot 100 grains bullets from my Walther PP. I even had hunted groundhogs with it using the 84 grain bullets and yes I did get some. I've been shooting the 32acp since the late seventies. It's a very under rated cartridge and it sure isn't no peek squeek. I'd pick it any day over a 380. It also penetrated the human body better then the 380.

[Soundguy]

I'm a big 32 cal fan. 32acp, HR mag, 30 super carry, 327 federal mag.

[Kosh75287]

I'D darned sure back off of 3.0/RedDot/98 gr., especially if shooting it in a blow-back pistol. I don't know if there are any locked-breech .32 A.C.P.s on the planet, but they're not unknown in .380 A.C.P.
In any case, I'D back off that load by at least 10%, and probably more like 20%.

[blue32]

While the 1903 can digest some stout loads, I wouldn't venture into a steady diet of what the OP has posted. On the other hand, my trusty P32 let go after years of 2.2 gr W231 under 78 gr RN. I paid for shipping and Kel Tec covered the rest.

313330
313331
313332

[Hanzy4200]

I love the .32 acp. I load 2 different cast bullets. One is the Lyman 85 gr RN, and a 4 banger FN 75 gr from NOE. I have around 7-8 .32 pistols I shoot regularly. Most recently a CZ Skorpion. Talk about a fun little plinker with a 20 rd magazine! All around favorite is a Beretta Model 81 Euro police trade in. Thing just plain runs.

[TD1886]

My all time favorite when you get down to that diameter of bullet is the 30 Luger. Lot more vigorous then the 32 acp, but fun!

[Soundguy]

While the 1903 can digest some stout loads, I wouldn't venture into a steady diet of what the OP has posted. On the other hand, my trusty P32 let go after years of 2.2 gr W231 under 78 gr RN. I paid for shipping and Kel Tec covered the rest.

313330
313331
313332

Every company pops a lemon out now and then..a gun that breaks digesting what is essentially a full power commercial load is just that..

[Soundguy]

Ps... All that said... 85gr would be my limit..imho..
And 2.1-2.3 of w231 is the load range for 71gr... At 78gr you were about 9.86% heavier.. And I suspect. Your max load should have been closer to 2.1 and starting at 1.9... Just mho

[dverna]

It is good to have choices. It is not good to push a cartridge to unsafe levels because you made a poor choice.

[blue32]

Ps... All that said... 85gr would be my limit..imho..
And 2.1-2.3 of w231 is the load range for 71gr... At 78gr you were about 9.86% heavier.. And I suspect. Your max load should have been closer to 2.1 and starting at 1.9... Just mho

4% heavier than Lyman's data for a 75 gr cast with a max of 2.5 gr W231.
2.1 gr will not reliably cycle the action.

[Green Frog]

Warren5421, You do understand that you are now eligible to be a member of the 32 Retinue. Welcome to the madness! :drinks:
Froggie

[Rapidrob]

I've been collecting and shooting pistols and revolvers since 1965 of the .312 bore. The 7.65 Browning is a great cartridge.
Pushing it faster than factory loads can be very hard on the pistols. Years ago I started to "Hot Rod" the little cartridge to 1,000 FPS and cracked the breech end of a collectable pistol barrel and had a very hard time finding the expensive replacement barrel. A lesson learned the hard way.

[barnetmill]

I agree with you. I've even shot 100 grains bullets from my Walther PP. I even had hunted groundhogs with it using the 84 grain bullets and yes I did get some. I've been shooting the 32acp since the late seventies. It's a very under rated cartridge and it sure isn't no peek squeek. I'd pick it any day over a 380. It also penetrated the human body better then the 380.

It is also used in some european made target pistols.
Pardini HP, Cal. 32 ACP, 5" Barrel for NRA Bullseye. There is someone in our bullseye group that shoots one. It will set you back only $2,899.00. https://www.pardiniguns.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=872


https://www.pardiniguns.com/store/images/HP_500.jpg

[barnetmill]

There is not a whole lot to be gained by hot rodding the .32 ACP for self defense. To kill or disable on the spot it will require a hit to something vital. The most important thing is penetration so it can go through a skull, penetrate the spine, or heart. I would make sure that the ammo I used was loaded to full factory spec. Some of it is underloaded. Such guns are sometimes called face pistols because you point them up close at someone's face.

[Soundguy]

4% heavier than Lyman's data for a 75 gr cast with a max of 2.5 gr W231.
2.1 gr will not reliably cycle the action.

Depends on the gun.. depends on relative powder speed. On these loads that are basically .3g splits from min to max.. I've found that mid level or the high level will cycle my P32 Keltec. I tend to use faster powders that w231 though.. Like aA#2 which is a hair faster.. and tightgroup which is plenty faster.

On lighter bullets like 71gr.. I'm for sure using tightgroup. On heavier.. it's an AA powder.. 2 or 5.. usually 5.. and that IS slower than w231.

I'll have to look at what I used specifically on my last run of 32acp. I also load with alliant powders some.. so might be a dot powder in there too.. or unique, bullseye or herco.. all depends. I'll have to look to see what I used. I'll try to remember to post back and update the thread.

[Green Frog]

Barnetmill,
For many years the Euro CF target round of choice was their equivalent to the 32 S&W Long with flush seated lead wadcutter bullet. In recent years, the 32 ACP has been rapidly gaining in popularity and works so well that some Target gunsmiths are making big money when they take their customers’ already expensive 32 S&W L target guns and convert them to 32 ACP. It doesn’t seem reasonable to me that the latter would be superior in any way, but apparently they are. Go figure! :veryconfu
Froggie

[barnetmill]

Barnetmill,
For many years the Euro CF target round of choice was their equivalent to the 32 S&W Long with flush seated lead wadcutter bullet. In recent years, the 32 ACP has been rapidly gaining in popularity and works so well that some Target gunsmiths are making big money when they take their customers’ already expensive 32 S&W L target guns and convert them to 32 ACP. It doesn’t seem reasonable to me that the latter would be superior in any way, but apparently they are. Go figure! :veryconfu
Froggie

The .32 ACP is semi-rimmed that might help with the conversion. I have often wondered how a gun built on the frame of a .22 plinker in .32 acp or .380 would be to shoot. Problem of course would be the cost of the ammunition vs that of .22 rim fire.
But, I would think a quality target pistol would need quality ammo and most .32 ACP is not loaded to target grade spec.
For light loads, reduced powder capacity will give in theory more consistent ignition and might be more accurate.

[P Flados]

For the fancy target guns, it is my understanding that the 32 long with a wadcutter is preferred for shooting that is done at closer ranges than the target shooting where 32 ACP is more popular. The ACP advantage it attributed to the RN having good stability at all distances where the flat nose wadcutter goes unstable out past 25 yards or so.

[TD1886]

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/head-to-head-32-acp-vs-380-acp/#:~:text=32%20ACP%20%E2%80%94%20even%20with%20thes e,can%20still%20do%20the%20job.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

An interesting review, TD1886. Thanks for posting it.

DG

[Eddie Southgate]

I agree with you. I've even shot 100 grains bullets from my Walther PP. I even had hunted groundhogs with it using the 84 grain bullets and yes I did get some. I've been shooting the 32acp since the late seventies. It's a very under rated cartridge and it sure isn't no peek squeek. I'd pick it any day over a 380. It also penetrated the human body better then the 380.

And he said don't shoot them over 850 fps or you will eventually crack the frame on those two pistols. He never said not to shoot them at all . He knows what he's talking about and has probably shot more .32 ACP over the years than any several of us others put together and in a large assortment of guns. He has personally cracked one of those frames. He's not just some guy on the internet, he only says it when he knows it to be a fact.

[Eddie Southgate]

Uh.. Negative ghost rider... My keltec p32 has digested untold amounts of 85gr lead. It's still my every day carry exercise gun with an extended magazine. I wear it in a belly band holster. Again.. It's digested many....

See my post above.

[TD1886]

That guy that wrote the article I posted said the Kel Tec he talked about as being a locked delayed recoil action and the felt recoil was less then the blow back type such as the Walthers. My one 32 is a Walther PP and with the hotter loads it stings my hand some. My other 32 is the Colt, although a blow back, it's a much nicer pistol to shoot. BTW my bullet for both is the Hornady XTP he mentioned.

I'm glad some of you appreciated the article as I though some of you would.

[JohnForrest]

I got that darn 32 fever about a year ago and the only 311 mold I have is Lee 93 grain. 231 seems a little dirty but would love to see QL listing for it. Thinking I may be loading a little light.

[Outpost75]

And he said don't shoot them over 850 fps or you will eventually crack the frame on those two pistols. He never said not to shoot them at all . He knows what he's talking about and has probably shot more .32 ACP over the years than any several of us others put together and in a large assortment of guns. He has personally cracked one of those frames. He's not just some guy on the internet, he only says it when he knows it to be a fact.

Actually have cracked TWO Berettas, original blued Tomcat failed after 500 rounds of RWS, Hirtenberg and Geco. INOX model 3032 they sent as replacement went 2000 rounds.

[P Flados]

I got that darn 32 fever about a year ago and the only 311 mold I have is Lee 93 grain. 231 seems a little dirty but would love to see QL listing for it. Thinking I may be loading a little light.

Quickload runs are more useful with good inputs. You gave powder and bullet, but not cartridge (probably 32 ACP, but "32 fever" is vague), input for barrel length (muzzle to breech face) and COAL.

[JohnForrest]

Thanks anyway P, Should of just said that it's interesting what all you can see with QL. Didn't mean to sound like I was asking you to run it for me. I am not sure what my col is and not dead set on 231 anyway.

[P Flados]

Runs are easy. I usually do runs with a guess, but the 32 ACP is very sensitive to COAL.

[Outpost75]

Runs are easy. I usually do runs with a guess, but the 32 ACP is very sensitive to COAL.

To prevent rimlock OAL must be not less than 0.955" min

To fit into magazine and feed cannot exceed 0.985" max.

[P Flados]

Ok, how about three cases to cover the 0.030" range provided by the master.

Note that the "Near Max" charge drops 0.1 gr for each 0.015" reduction in COAL.



Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Useable Case Capaci: 4.352 grain H2O = 0.283 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.955 inch = 24.26 mm
Barrel Length : 3.5 inch = 88.9 mm
Powder : Winchester 231

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-24.0 63 1.90 726 109 13683 2450 90.4 0.619
-20.0 66 2.00 759 119 15245 2610 92.2 0.587
-16.0 69 2.10 791 129 16932 2766 93.8 0.558
-12.0 72 2.20 822 140 18749 2915 95.3 0.532
-08.0 76 2.30 853 150 20704 3057 96.5 0.508 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 79 2.40 884 161 22805 3193 97.5 0.486 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 82 2.50 914 172 25060 3321 98.4 0.465 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!




Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Useable Case Capaci: 4.640 grain H2O = 0.301 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.970 inch = 24.64 mm
Barrel Length : 3.5 inch = 88.9 mm
Powder : Winchester 231

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-24.0 59 1.90 713 105 12651 2464 89.6 0.640
-20.0 62 2.00 745 114 14060 2628 91.5 0.607
-16.0 65 2.10 776 124 15577 2787 93.2 0.578
-12.0 68 2.20 807 134 17205 2942 94.6 0.551
-08.0 71 2.30 837 145 18952 3091 95.9 0.526
-04.0 74 2.40 867 155 20822 3233 97.0 0.503 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 77 2.50 897 166 22822 3368 97.9 0.482 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 80 2.60 926 177 24960 3495 98.7 0.463 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!




Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Useable Case Capaci: 4.929 grain H2O = 0.320 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.985 inch = 25.02 mm
Barrel Length : 3.5 inch = 88.9 mm
Powder : Winchester 231

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 4.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-24.0 55 1.90 700 101 11777 2474 88.9 0.658
-20.0 58 2.00 732 110 13060 2642 90.8 0.627
-16.0 61 2.10 762 120 14438 2806 92.5 0.597
-12.0 64 2.20 793 130 15913 2965 94.0 0.569
-08.0 67 2.30 823 140 17490 3120 95.4 0.544
-04.0 70 2.40 852 150 19174 3267 96.5 0.520
+00.0 73 2.50 881 160 20969 3409 97.5 0.499 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 76 2.60 910 171 22882 3543 98.3 0.479 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 79 2.70 938 182 24918 3669 98.9 0.460 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[uscra112]

Watching this, as my Ortgies seems to need a hot load to function. Have yet to load for it - too many other irons in the fire, but someday.........

[charlie b]

That pressure calculation is interesting. Pressure goes up 4k psi with only .030 change in oal (2.5gn load). Almost scary.

[JohnForrest]

P Flados,

Thank you for that! I'll be saving it and using it often.
So much good info about 32 ACP here.

And to everyone else that added good advice through out this whole thread, the new to 32 should realize how valuable it is.

So with regard to case capacity and pressure and COAL, what is the sweet spot for an ideal cast bullet mold, weight wise and design? I am wondering if 93 is a bit heavy and long?

Funny I just finished reading chapter 9 in "Modern Reloading" by Lee, a article reprinted from Vihtavuori about loading safely. After re- reading a couple times then, this thread made me go back and look at it a few more times. The phrase "A tangled web we weave" comes to mind.

[Outpost75]

Good work!

Would love to see similar done using 1.8-2.3 of Bullseye and
2.5-3.0 of AutoComp if you are OK doing that.

[P Flados]

My current version does not have the AutoComp. Note that I decided to drop down to a 2.5" barrel for the default runs. I will also include some info to help understand approximate velocity changes for different barrel lengths using 231.



Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.955 inch = 24.26 mm
Barrel Length : 2.5 inch = 63.5 mm
Powder : Alliant BULLSEYE

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-30.8 68 1.80 661 90 13341 3692 76.3 0.500
-26.9 71 1.90 694 99 14883 4003 78.7 0.473
-23.1 75 2.00 727 109 16543 4316 81.0 0.448
-19.2 79 2.10 760 119 18328 4630 83.1 0.426
-15.4 83 2.20 792 130 20243 4942 85.1 0.405 ! Near Maximum !
-11.5 86 2.30 824 140 22295 5254 87.0 0.387 ! Near Maximum !
-07.7 90 2.40 856 151 24492 5562 88.7 0.369 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!





Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.970 inch = 24.64 mm
Barrel Length : 2.5 inch = 63.5 mm
Powder : Alliant BULLSEYE

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-35.7 64 1.80 646 86 12347 3681 75.3 0.518
-32.1 67 1.90 678 95 13744 3994 77.6 0.490
-28.6 71 2.00 710 104 15245 4310 79.9 0.465
-25.0 74 2.10 742 114 16853 4627 82.0 0.442
-21.4 78 2.20 774 124 18574 4944 84.1 0.421
-17.9 81 2.30 805 134 20412 5261 85.9 0.402 ! Near Maximum !
-14.3 85 2.40 836 144 22374 5576 87.7 0.384 ! Near Maximum !
-10.7 88 2.50 867 155 24466 5887 89.3 0.367 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!





Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.985 inch = 25.02 mm
Barrel Length : 2.5 inch = 63.5 mm
Powder : Alliant BULLSEYE

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-30.8 60 1.80 632 83 11501 3669 74.2 0.533
-26.9 63 1.90 663 91 12778 3983 76.6 0.507
-23.1 66 2.00 695 100 14147 4301 78.9 0.481
-19.2 70 2.10 726 109 15610 4620 81.0 0.458
-15.4 73 2.20 756 118 17171 4942 83.0 0.436
-11.5 76 2.30 787 128 18836 5263 84.9 0.416
-07.7 80 2.40 817 138 20607 5583 86.7 0.398 ! Near Maximum !
-03.8 83 2.50 848 148 22490 5901 88.4 0.381 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!





Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.970 inch = 24.64 mm
Powder : Win 231

Barrel Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
In. % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
2 74 2.40 744 114 20814 6365 91.5 0.350 ! Near Maximum !
2.5 74 2.40 797 131 20814 4867 94.2 0.404 ! Near Maximum !
3 74 2.40 837 145 20813 3901 95.9 0.455 ! Near Maximum !
3.5 74 2.40 867 155 20814 3234 97.0 0.503 ! Near Maximum !
4 74 2.40 892 164 20813 2746 97.8 0.551 ! Near Maximum !
4.5 74 2.40 913 172 20813 2377 98.4 0.597 ! Near Maximum !

[P Flados]

So with regard to case capacity and pressure and COAL, what is the sweet spot for an ideal cast bullet mold, weight wise and design? I am wondering if 93 is a bit heavy and long? \

The 93 Lee has an availability advantage when it comes to molds. Anyone can afford a Lee 2 cav.

For something a little lighter, there are some vendors that sell 78 gr cast bullets. I did not see a length listed for any of these (a key piece of info for any Quickload runs) and did not find anyone selling a mold with a similar profile.

In my 7.4" stub tube Contender, I use the gun for offhand practice at 30 ft. I run a "mouse fart" 55 gr NLG tumble lube (I made the mold) over 1.7 gr Titegroup (the only stuff I have that meters worth a darn at this power level) for a calculated 888 fps.

[P Flados]

That pressure calculation is interesting. Pressure goes up 4k psi with only .030 change in oal (2.5gn load). Almost scary.

On a pretty regular basis, I preach on how much seating depth (the parameter that really matters) affects results. And note that for something like a 32 ACP, consider the fact that most load data is for jacket bullets, but cast bullets of the same weight can be longer due to the lube grooves and/or profile.

[P Flados]

Okay, I found one vendor that gives a length for a 78 gr RN (0.471"), Rimrock (https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/cb-32-78-gr-rn-per-500.html). I am not sure if the profile works for a 32 ACP, but I will run it anyway.

I seated it deep (0.193") for a min COAL. Seating it out longer will probably allow 0.1 gr additional charge per 0.015"



Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .312, 78, RN - 0.471 long - Rimrock
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.955 inch = 24.26 mm
Barrel Length : 2.5 inch = 63.5 mm
Powder : Winchester 231

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 59 2.00 684 81 11528 3633 79.4 0.489
-16.0 62 2.10 716 89 12744 3905 81.6 0.467
-12.0 65 2.20 747 97 14051 4176 83.7 0.444
-08.0 68 2.30 778 105 15453 4447 85.7 0.423
-04.0 71 2.40 808 113 16953 4716 87.5 0.404
+00.0 74 2.50 839 122 18558 4981 89.2 0.386
+04.0 77 2.60 869 131 20272 5242 90.8 0.370 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 80 2.70 900 140 22102 5499 92.3 0.354 ! Near Maximum !
+12.0 83 2.80 930 150 24053 5748 93.6 0.340 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!





Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .312, 78, RN - 0.471 long - Rimrock
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.955 inch = 24.26 mm
Barrel Length : 2.5 inch = 63.5 mm
Powder : Alliant BULLSEYE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 4.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-24.0 64 1.90 682 81 11399 3682 69.4 0.486
-20.0 67 2.00 715 89 12616 3991 71.7 0.464
-16.0 71 2.10 748 97 13919 4306 73.9 0.441
-12.0 74 2.20 780 105 15314 4625 76.1 0.420
-08.0 78 2.30 813 114 16803 4946 78.1 0.401
-04.0 81 2.40 845 124 18392 5270 80.0 0.383
+00.0 84 2.50 878 133 20084 5594 81.9 0.367 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 88 2.60 910 143 21886 5919 83.7 0.351 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 91 2.70 942 154 23801 6243 85.3 0.337 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[Outpost75]

Here are the bullet profiles I have been using in .32 ACP. Maybe these will help:

313584313585

[barnetmill]

That guy that wrote the article I posted said the Kel Tec he talked about as being a locked delayed recoil action and the felt recoil was less then the blow back type such as the Walthers. My one 32 is a Walther PP and with the hotter loads it stings my hand some. My other 32 is the Colt, although a blow back, it's a much nicer pistol to shoot. BTW my bullet for both is the Hornady XTP he mentioned.

I'm glad some of you appreciated the article as I though some of you would.
He said that the keltec was a: ''P-32 was a locked-breech design''
What he did not say is ''locked delayed recoil action''
Most seecamps are considered by most to be a delayed blowback. Most .32 ACP pistols are blowback in design with some exceptions like the Frommer Stop pistol(s).
The seecamp has a circular removal of metal in the chamber that is suppose grip the cartridge case upon firing to slow down the opening of the slide.
If one wants to use some of the expanding bullets designs in the .32 read up on rimlock. The .32 ACP is a semi-rimmed cartridge and shorter overall length cartridges can lock the rims in the magazine resulting in a failure to feed. The seecamp mag is designed for the shorter rounds and the mag might not load with FMJ. Also I am dubious that expanding bullets are driven fast enough in the shorter barreled .32s to expand and if they do they might not penetrate sufficiently. I have gotten interested in looking into the high speed phillip screw tip looking bullets that supposedly give good penetration and make a good wound track at least in gel.

[Outpost75]

The Euro pocket pistols generally had barrel lengths of 8-9 cm about 3.1-3.5"

If your program doesn't have Autocomp might be helpful to run 2.5-3 grains Unique and 5.2-5.6 grains of #2400, up to 105% of case capacity with light compression.

[P Flados]

Post deleted, I figured out that I was misreading the info.

[P Flados]

I ran the Lee 93 with Unique at mid and max COAL. I added in the info on what Quickload predicted for seating depth. All loads seem to be following the trend of max charge dropping by 0.1 gr for each 0.015" COAL reduction.

I tried 2400 but was getting excessive compression without getting up to reasonable charges. Based on past poor predictions, I do not like using Quickload for highly compressed pistol loads. FYI, Quickload says that 5.4 gr of 2400 will fill a case to within 0.125" of the top of the case.



Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Seating depth : 0.240”
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.970 inch = 24.64 mm
Barrel Length : 2.5 inch = 63.5 mm
Powder : Alliant UNIQUE

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-16.0 90 2.10 680 96 14112 3979 75.2 0.492
-12.0 94 2.20 712 105 15703 4276 77.5 0.466
-08.0 98 2.30 744 114 17430 4575 79.8 0.443
-04.0 102 2.40 776 124 19302 4872 81.9 0.421
+00.0 107 2.50 807 135 21328 5168 83.9 0.400 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 111 2.60 839 145 23520 5462 85.8 0.382 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!





Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .311, 93, LEE 311-093-1R
Seating depth : 0.225”
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.985 inch = 25.02 mm
Barrel Length : 2.5 inch = 63.5 mm
Powder : Alliant UNIQUE

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-16.0 83 2.10 662 91 12907 3965 73.9 0.514
-12.0 87 2.20 693 99 14317 4264 76.2 0.487
-08.0 91 2.30 724 108 15841 4566 78.4 0.463
-04.0 95 2.40 755 118 17485 4868 80.6 0.440
+00.0 99 2.50 785 127 19257 5171 82.6 0.420
+04.0 103 2.60 816 137 21165 5472 84.5 0.400 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 107 2.70 847 148 23218 5769 86.3 0.382 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[P Flados]

I finally figured out your 80 gr bullet. The reduced seating depth allows for a more meaningful 2400 run even though the compression is still pretty bad at the higher charges. The seating depth selected has 0.012" of the top band down in the case (i.e. the lube groove and just a little more inside the case).



Cartridge : .32 ACP (7.65 Browning)
Bullet : .312, 80, RNFP - 0.455 long - 31-081H
Seating depth : 0.162”
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 0.970 inch = 24.64 mm
Barrel Length : 2.5 inch = 63.5 mm
Powder : Alliant 2400

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-07.4 105 5.00 727 95 13624 4539 35.4 0.446
-05.6 107 5.10 746 100 14472 4742 36.4 0.433
-03.7 109 5.20 766 105 15378 4951 37.3 0.420
-01.9 111 5.30 785 111 16347 5165 38.3 0.407
+00.0 113 5.40 806 117 17386 5383 39.3 0.395
+01.9 115 5.50 826 123 18500 5606 40.3 0.383
+03.7 117 5.60 847 129 19695 5835 41.3 0.371


For your 90 gr bullet, it is 0.500" long as compared to 0.533" for the 93 Lee. You should be able to use the posted Lee data
with the following adjustments. At a given pressure level, go 0.2 gr higher on the charge at the same COALs and you should get about 20 - 25 fps more velocity with the extra powder. The slightly lighter bullet will drop pressure just a tad.

I have added a lot of info to this thread that may or may not be useful. I have no problem making more runs. However, it might be better to get specific requests complete with desired barrel length(s), powder, bullet and COAL(s). If the bullet is not in the Quickload database, bullet length is needed.

[JohnForrest]

Sad to see this thread dying. I learned alot about 32 that I never saw elsewhere. Recently bought a 30 Super carry handgun and a Hi Point carbine. They feel like 32 ACP Magnum. Maybe we will get some new bullet options but I'm not sure 30SC is going to be too populer.

[Outpost75]

A treasure trove of valuable data. It is gratifying to see that QL validates my load suggestions.

Thanks!

[schutzen-jager]

jmho - 98 gr. bullet + 3.0 of red dot is an accident that is going to happen to a vintage collectible pistol !