minimum cast load for bear defense? (black bear)

[superior]

Ok, I already know how many BEST loads there are for a hostile encounter with a black bear, but I would like to hear what the MINIMUM load is that you guys would recommend. I often pick chantrel mushrooms here in the coast range and I have come within 50 yards of a black bear by a stream. I backed away slowly before he (or she) noticed me. Back in the truck I had a chinese 870 short bbl shotgun stoked with foster type slugs but I was only carrying my glock23. So what rifle, (no shotguns-no handguns) , CB,action type and powder load combination would be the absolute minimum you would feel safe with. :coffee:

[mroliver77]

I would think a .357 mag in a short handy levergun would be about min for me. 358429 is a great boolit for such work. I like levers more and more lately. Handy, easy to carry and can lay down some firepower if needed. Ruger mini 30 might be a good one with cast also. If'n I was carrying for protection against ferocious beast I think I might go with a jacketed but that is me. I shoot very little jacketed and the Boolit Gods may vex me but life and limb are precious to me. I have kilt a handfull of animals with cast and most took a short time to die. My $.02
J

[Throwback]

Black bears don't wory me too much. First, I would carry bear spray. It has been reported to be more effective than a gun. Your shotgun with slugs is ideal. As for a rifle - If you are a cool shot a .30-30 would be a bear minimum (pun intended) but a .35 Remington or a .44 Magnum would be a better choice. 200 grain bullet for the .35, at least 240 for the .44. If you think you might need to pull your Glock on a bear, use a jacketed TC profile bullet of 180 to 200 grains.

[superior]

I only shoot cast in the Glock but my defense carry load is winchester black talon sxtdp. Would you feel undergunned with a short 18.5" bbl enfield in 303 brit loaded with c312-185's at 1700pfs?

[Throwback]

No - I don't think so. That's a light load for the 303 but it should work fine if your alloy is on the softer side. I load a 214 grain at 2,000 fps in the .30-40 Krag which is very similar to the 303. I get the right balance of fouling and bullet upset at that velocity with a hardness of 13-15 BHN.

[Throwback]

By the way - did you view the thread on cast in the Glock? I recommend against using pb in the polygonal barrels. I tried cast in an H&K and got so so accuracy and saw noticeable lead buildup near the chamber. The result in Glocks seems to be quick pressure spikes and split barrels.

[GabbyM]

First loose the hollow points in the pistol. Penetration is everything when up against a bear.

The 303 short barrel would be ideal all be it some weight to pack. But if you own it I'd use it way before a shotgun. I'd be tempted to load it heavier than 1700fps. Make sure you've cast a bullet that wont' expand to much or shatter on bone. WW plus 2% to 3% tin air cooled or half ww half pb heat treated at 400 deg. F. The round nose bullet should work well on a bear to penetrate all the hide fat and bone before getting to the vitals. I wouldn't worry about expansion as much as keeping the bullet in one piece. Many “high shock” J bullets will fail miserably on a bear. At least at 30-06 velocity. When the round nose Lee boolit hits bear ribs or skull it will lose that round profile soon enough.

If I were to carry a shotgun in bear country I'd work up a solid round ball load.

[NSP64]

What guns do you have? then we could tell you which one to carry. I would want something with a faster follow up shot than the 303. Why no handgun? A handgun would be faster than a long arm, and I wouldn't shoot unless it was last ditch. Big can of bear mace would be best, backed up by a good 44/45LC.

[superior]

My guns are: Colt AR-15,Savage 116fss .338 winmag w24"bbl, Remington 700bdl in 7mm rem mag, a Heavy bbl Savage 110gv in .223, sks paratrooper in 7.62x39, Golden state Arms Santa Fe jungle carbine in 303 brit (enfield no1-mk3 with 1942 bbl), and 4 22rimfires, 3 shotguns including the short one with ghost ring combat sights. And the Glock23. Oh... and 1 crossman760 pellet gun. My 700bld is too long and nice to drag into the woods, the 338 is my favorite but i dont cast for it (no gas checks). The sks is short and light enough but I dont think it packs the punch for black bear. That leaves me with the Brit as it is lighter than the shotgun and I would really rather carry a rifle in the woods for more versatility when targets of opportunity may present themselves. I was hoping that with the 185 grainer I wouldn't be undergunned so there would be no hurry to order a larger mold.

[Throwback]

Stick to the 303 and learn (if you don't already know how) to manipulate the bolt with the rifle locked on your shoulder. With a little practice a bolt-gun is plenty fast. It is the right size and amply powerful. Don't cast your bullets too hard or they will shatter. Don't be tempted to run them much faster than 2,000 fps or you will get the same result. The jungle carbine is very quick on target.

[superior]

So the 185gr should do the trick if I do my part? Or should I go ahead and lay out the cash for a 314299 Lyman?

[robertbank]

Your SKS 7x39 is amble for Black Bear. An auto goes bang bang faster than a Bolt in most users hands. Buddy of mine nailed a big boar that was coming out of his chicken coop with his SKS. Bear dropped on the spot. He had surplus FMJ in his gun. Range was less than 10'.

I woudn't go bear hunting with a SKS but for self defense against one the gun would do.

For self defense against Black Bears at close ranges a 12 gauge with slugs would be my first choice.

I woudn't be loading cast bullets for bear defense either. No upside and a lot of downside. Having a wounded bear run off with a cast bullet in him while hunting is bad enough, having a wounded bear running at you is bad from a whole different point of view.

Take Care

Bob

[Larry Gibson]

Stick to the 303 and learn (if you don't already know how) to manipulate the bolt with the rifle locked on your shoulder. With a little practice a bolt-gun is plenty fast. It is the right size and amply powerful. Don't cast your bullets too hard or they will shatter. Don't be tempted to run them much faster than 2,000 fps or you will get the same result. The jungle carbine is very quick on target.

Superior

The 314299 is always a nice bullet to have but the 185 at 2000 fps cast as Throwback suggests will work fine. I got between a sow and her cubs up out of Detroit Lake up on Bryer's(SP?) Peak. I had a M1917 and was plinking at squirrels on the edge of a clearcut. Had left the rifle in the jeep. I thought I could just get out from between her and the cubs and all would be fine but she disagreed with that plan. She chased me about 30-50 yards back to the jeep (no top on and windshield down) and it ended up in standoff with her on one side and me on the other. I put two quick shots from the revolver by her head as I reached across the seat to get the rifle out of the rack (between the seats). She backed up a few steps and then bellered at me and went back to her cubs. I was glad i didn't have to shoot her. There was not time to use pepper spray before she was on my ass chasing me. The spray might have worked at the jeep but it wasn't available back then and since I don't use it now i doubt I would have then.

I've also had several other run ins with black bears since but have not had to shoot them. If you stand your ground they most often back away. If you run they'll be after you sometimes as would any predator. If you stand your ground and are ready with the rifle then shoot only if you have to. I wonder how many poor bears get pepper sprayed by every unknowing scared sh*tless hiker they come across? No wonder they don't like people?

The SMLE slung over your back will work well. Just practice getting it into action as mentioned.

Larry Gibson

[Throwback]

"So the 185gr should do the trick if I do my part? Or should I go ahead and lay out the cash for a 314299 Lyman?"

The 185 is fine but don't you want the 314299 also?:-D

[Snapping Twig]

Something in a 30-30 lever or a Mini 30 with 150g cast.

[superior]

Yes I do want the 314299 but thats for elk season( a long way off) and I'll be in the forest alot until then. The minimum size I want to use for Elk is 200 grain.

[KCSO]

According to Wayne Short in his book The Chechako's a 25-20 is all you need???? Well not really his brother dropped a big grizzly with one shot behind the ears on Admiralty Island. Later they decided that a 30-06 with 180 grain bullets was their minimum. I really like a 35 Remington with full loads or a 35 Whelen with moderate (2200 fps) loads with a 220 or bigger bullet. If I were hunting alone I would err on this side of caution and carry enough gun. I would use mu 38-55 with heavy handloads but that's about the same as the 35 Remington in power and that is my bottom line.

[Bret4207]

I have recently been informed that once you cross the Mississippi the black bears become near bullet proof. Even at that, I would feel fine with the 357 lever gun someone else mentioned for bears in my area. 99% chance they'll go the other way. That 1%....I used pepper spray on a Jersey cross bull once- it didn't work at all. If I'm sure the bear is coming for me I'm putting rounds in the head til it stops.

The SKS would work fine too. I'd prefer the 303, same weight, more power.

[robertbank]

Bret I must be missing something but if anyone had any doubt as to the ability of cast bullets to do the job 100% of the time why would anyone use cast when they have at your hand full power house jacketed bullets? We are taking self defense here aren't we? When a Black Bear is 10 feet from you stamping his feet, ears back and coming at you it is a heck of time to find out your recent batch of cast bullets aren't up to the job. Hunting is a competely different story.

Take Care

Bob

[EMC45]

I forget where I saw the pic at, but it was of a Russian hunting party and all the guides had SKSs and they were hunting MASSIVE Russian bears.

[Lloyd Smale]

If its truely bear PROTECTION an there is a chance of getting attacked. (slim and none in most cases) I wouldnt fool around with anything less then a 44 mag with 300 cast bullets. How be dammed if i want to face a charging bear with a 357. Personaly id much prefer my 500 or 475 linebaugh but a guy doesnt allways pack a gun that big. A good light N frame smith or better yet a 329 that is light would be about the best trail gun i could think of. Second to that a 4 5/8s super blackawk. I dont think theres a person in his right mind that would want to face a 300 lb bear with a 357 or a semi auto handgun. I also dont understand why someone would pick a jacketed bullet for this job. There your really risking bullet failure. Even a pourly cast cast bullet out of the right alloy is going to punch thorugh to the vitals and who here does pourly cast bullets. Ive seen jacketed bullets fail on bear and hogs. I once saw a 41 mag shooting 210 remintons have three bullets stopped on a shoulder of a big hog. It was put down with a 41 special shooting cast 220s at 9oo fps with one shot. I also helped a buddy track a wounded 250 lb black bear that was shot with a 44 mag with 240 xtps. We tracked that bear over a mile and put it down with a 3030. The bullet was logged in the shoulder and didnt even break the bone. Maybe these were freak incidences and maybe if someone else was telling me i wouldnt believe it. But i saw it with my own eyes and am convinced totaly that jacketed bullets have no bussiness in a hunting handgun for animals any tougher then a deer unless your blind hunting and can insure a perfect shot every time. But anyone thats hunted with a handgun long can attest that sometimes even the perfect situation can go bad. Now that been said. I live in black bear country. Ive shot them off my back porch. My kids played inthe back yard and would come in the house and tell me there was a bear in the yard. Ive NEVER felt the need to carry a handgun on me in the woods. I useually do but it is not picked for bear protection. id bet that most even avid hunters have never even stumbled accross a bear accidently in the woods. They are the first animal to get out of dodge when they smell or hear something and are not an aggressive animal in a nomal situation. You want to take a good chance on getting attacked take your little pee shooter and shoot one with it.

[725]

With a steady hand, most handguns will work. Some are better than others. Some are downright excessive. But it has been observed by many that they are best used to fight your way back to wherever you left your longgun. The .303 is a fine cartridge and well suited to this task.

[swheeler]

I have to side with L. Smale, if I thought I might have to stop a charging bear(blackies kill and maul more people every year than Griz) I would want as much gun as possible. Your 303 brit should be fine, but I would want a bullet with a higher SD than that 185 Lee. Question though(I no longer own a 303, sold two over the years) will that 185 Lee cast large enough to shoot in your rifle? I've got two of those molds, originally one cast .313x.302/3 and the other .313x .298?? what! they both have been lapped now for two different purposes/rifles. Here's what I would do, buy the 8mm maximum mold(oldfeller-45 2.1 design) from Midsouth for about 20.00, it casts a .327 dia bullet of 249 grs WW naked. Sized, lube and check those bullets in a .325(or what ever you have in 8mm) sizer, then run them through the appropiate Lee push through sizer for your rifle(.315/16???), do it the day you cast them before they start ageing up. If you can load these up to 1900-2000 fps(if you have to harden them H20 drop instead of alloy up) range you will, in my opinion, be safe from anything in the woods, except maybe the 2 legged critters. I used one of these in 8mm to drop an 1100 pound bison, DRT. If you are talking about killing something that can bite, scratch and kill you, you have to think in terms of real estate- location, location, location- except in bullets it's penetration, penetration, penetration! That heavy weight with a SD of .330 looks to be a better choice than that 185 with it's .250 SD(I'm guessing at SD here) L TO R 220 Hornady 30 cal, sized down 8mm max LLA tumbled 252 grs, 8mm Max as cast, and the pointy 314-299 lyman- I choose a meplat and SD, you? .02 Scot

[carpetman]

Black bear are timid by nature and if you wear bells, it will scare most of them off. For the very few that are a little more aggressive a little pepper spray is all you need. This is for black bears, but grizz a different story. If you are in an area and see grizz poop---get out of that area immediately. How can you tell grizz poop from black bear poop? Grizz poop has little bells and smells like pepper.

[swheeler]

Black bear are timid by nature and if you wear bells, it will scare most of them off. For the very few that are a little more aggressive a little pepper spray is all you need. This is for black bears, but grizz a different story. If you are in an area and see grizz poop---get out of that area immediately. How can you tell grizz poop from black bear poop? Grizz poop has little bells and smells like pepper.

funny!

[robertbank]

Try to remeber folks you are not hunting bears you are asking about a firearm for defense. If you can't carry a shotgun with slugs then any pistol/revolver you can shoot quickly and accurately will do the job. I favour the .45acp only because I can shoot it fast and accurately. Plenty enough for any of our Black Bears up here. 2nd choice would be a 12 gauge Shotgun with slugs.

A hand cannon that takes you a minute or two to get out of it's holster is going to be laying beside you when they find you. So too a rifle.

Black bears are pretty timid but when they attack they see you as lunch and you aren't gong to get a long time to decide what you are going to do and running is not an option. A Bears skull is pretty thin so anything 9MM or larger is going to be plenty provided you hit where you are aiming. Just keep pulling the trigger until you pass out.:mrgreen:

Take Care

Bob

[swheeler]

Try to remeber folks you are not hunting bears you are asking about a firearm for defense. If you can't carry a shotgun with slugs then any pistol/revolver you can shoot quickly and accurately will do the job. I favour the .45acp only because I can shoot it fast and accurately. Plenty enough for any of our Black Bears up here. 2nd choice would be a 12 gauge Shotgun with slugs.

A hand cannon that takes you a minute or two to get out of it's holster is going to be laying beside you when they find you. So too a rifle.

Black bears are pretty timid but when they attack they see you as lunch and you aren't gong to get a long time to decide what you are going to do and running is not an option. A Bears skull is pretty thin so anything 9MM or larger is going to be plenty provided you hit where you are aiming. Just keep pulling the trigger until you pass out.:mrgreen:

Take Care

Bob

Maybe it's just me but I'd want the smelly in my hands more than the short and weak.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

:shock::URSUS, don't know what you expected the boolit to do other than shoot end to end in the little deer, say 150# or so, If you have to shoot a Griz/Brown 700-1100# You will need all of that penetration. Plus all of the large bone it may contact will deform or shatter most XTP type jacketed boolits that I have seen/tested/used. Better a 44 maggie with a good 250-300 gr cast keith type boolit . 454 is better, I sure don't want a 357 or less. Been there done that...

I'm putting my spin on this from a defencive point of view, like you are out walking in the woods, for most people out there that don't shoot a lot, a shotgun with slugs is a better idea, but most people don't want to be bothered lugging a shotgun around when they are out being one with mother nature.[smilie=1:

And yes the Black bears will eat you, when we go into their domain, we should be prepared or to bad so sad holysheep

[windrider919]

Once upon a time I worked petro survey in Washington and Oregon state for a couple years. Many places we were so far in that a frequent thought was to wonder if any human feet had ever been there. Dropped in by helo in fire clearings because there just were no roads close. This was in the early '80s. We packed some dehydrated food with an ocassional grudged supply drop but mostly we lived off the land. There is an amazing amount of wildlife in non-human frequented areas and we ran into bears multiple times. Basic stratagy was: Don't Run and trigger the bears persuit instinct. Second was: don't be large and agressive, bend or crouch down and slowly move off at an angle. But we still had a couple of ocasions that we had to shoot. We won but I learned some things.

First thought upon reading your post was that the gun you carry is better than the super duper kill a dinosaur gun you don't have. I have hunted all types of vegetables in the woods and carrying a heavy rifle was the last thing I wanted to do as it gets in the way slung (always sliding around as you bend over) and gets really tiring being set down and picked up when in hand.

I read and agree with Lloyd Smale pretty much but in the real world a magnum revolver of .41 to .44 or .45 in a good quality, X back shoulder holster is the gun you will have with you because it is comfortable. You don't own one now but if you are really worried by this situation then get one. I do not recommend the light bullets, heavy Jacked SOFT Point is what I saw works. I love cast bullets but unless cast of soft lead they just do not expand enough. That's why I like a larger caliber, its already large as an expanded smaller cal bullet.

Having said that, and based on what you ALREADY have. I would go with the .303; IF it were shortened and lightened to a carbine that was light enough to carry without generating fatigue and hence being left in the vehicle. I once had a SMLE that had a 17" barrel and a sporterized / slenderized n skeletonized stock with a shotgun recoil pad. Exactly the sort of basic gunsmith work any competant individual could do himself with home tools. Hey, a hacksaw, a file and a square can produce a suitable muzzle crown for a 50 yd rifle. And what you want is a 15yd or less rifle because you have no business shooting at a bear unless he or she is coming closer to you and crosses that line. that means NO optics, just re-sighted iron sights. Here a cast mid to heavy bullet would work because of the increased velocity. Or any soft point jacketed of the same weight class. I also liked the larger magazine capacity over the standard sporter 3 or 4 rounds.

Alternatively, even though i did not recommend it in revolver, the 357 lever actions would work because the longer barrel increases sighting accuracy and helps velocity slightly. But no HP just Soft Point to get penetration without excessive expansion. Remember, most pistol bullets are really designed with thin skinned, narrow torsoed humans and upset too fast in a thick skinned bear with deeply bearried (Ha HA) vitals

[frank505]

In our experience of two aggressive black bear encounters and bear spray, DONT BOTHER, the spray did nothing. One of the bears ended up being shot dead. Maybe the crap works on grizzlies but not on black bears.
I carry a six shot 475 all summer and fall when in the hills. Sometimes a big rifle also, we have lots of unschooled grizzlies, hence the extra weight. Been "bluff charged" by several grizzlies, just stood my ground and told them in detail what my load is. Last summer did draw and look at the sights on a very aggressive black bear, he finally walked away, sort of. That was spooky, the bear followed us for a little distance in the brush............ Too bad the season was not open (closes June 15) and this was after. Of course I looked for him in the fall season and could not find him. We did get some great pictures, would have been excellent video, the second time he rushed and slapped the ground(15 yards) the hammer almost went, Dottie was right behind me saying, "if he does that again, shoot him". My wife and Dots husband where just a little ways to our left and where probably puckered up good.

Always be armed in bear/ lion country or stay home

[robertbank]

"Always be armed in bear/ lion country or stay home "

Best advice on this thread.

Your experience with the stomping Black Bear mirrored my experience last year. I feel the same way about bear spray. In BC you can shoot a bear if they come with 15 yards of you anytime. Just a case of picking up your casings and moving them the right distance.

Take care

Bob

[Gerry N.]

The best bear defense gun is a short, handy, open choked 12 Ga pump with as many heavy 00 buck loads in it as possible. All else is an interesting intellectual exercise. As a practical matter a pump shotgun can be emptied into a furry threat far faster than a bolt rifle or a revolver. If you're serious, a sling and rifle sights would be good.

If you get into a situation where a bear is an actual threat, anything throwing one projectile at a time is folly. 9 at a time is good, 12 at a time is better. Remember 15 yards is only 45 feet.

Gerry N.

[Lloyd Smale]

Frank how could he dare charge you with a 475 loaded with mt baldy bullets. Probably p@@@ed himself!!
In our experience of two aggressive black bear encounters and bear spray, DONT BOTHER, the spray did nothing. One of the bears ended up being shot dead. Maybe the crap works on grizzlies but not on black bears.
I carry a six shot 475 all summer and fall when in the hills. Sometimes a big rifle also, we have lots of unschooled grizzlies, hence the extra weight. Been "bluff charged" by several grizzlies, just stood my ground and told them in detail what my load is. Last summer did draw and look at the sights on a very aggressive black bear, he finally walked away, sort of. That was spooky, the bear followed us for a little distance in the brush............ Too bad the season was not open (closes June 15) and this was after. Of course I looked for him in the fall season and could not find him. We did get some great pictures, would have been excellent video, the second time he rushed and slapped the ground(15 yards) the hammer almost went, Dottie was right behind me saying, "if he does that again, shoot him". My wife and Dots husband where just a little ways to our left and where probably puckered up good.

Always be armed in bear/ lion country or stay home

[StarMetal]

I have recently been informed that once you cross the Mississippi the black bears become near bullet proof. Even at that, I would feel fine with the 357 lever gun someone else mentioned for bears in my area. 99% chance they'll go the other way. That 1%....I used pepper spray on a Jersey cross bull once- it didn't work at all. If I'm sure the bear is coming for me I'm putting rounds in the head til it stops.

The SKS would work fine too. I'd prefer the 303, same weight, more power.

Bret (and others)

In East Tn I see quite a few black bear taken that weigh between 400 and 627 pounds. One bear season one weighing 410 pounds was taken 150 yards from my mailbox. Grant you more are of lesser weight then the ones mentioned. Take into consideration we have the Smokey Mtn National Park and bears grow large there and become misbehaved. They trap the bad boys and take them to bear reserves throughout TN. One such place is 12 miles from where I live. So we have a pretty good bit of big bad boys walking the woods around here. TN has quite a few bear seasons two of which are with dogs. I don't know about you fellows, but shooting a bear out of a tree that the dogs put there isn't much sport and doesn't require much of a rifle. That 410 pounder shot near my place was taken with a 30-30 out of a tree. I know on the ground and being angered you had better have enough gun for the ones I said went from 400 to 627 pounds. The wildife department here won't admit it, but I think TN ranks very high on the bear list for population. To add to that problem mountain lions are on the increase here. I take walks up my dead end mtn road and have been taking my 45 acp with me. That would be my Glock.....13 shots ya know.

Joe

[EOD3]

Buddy of mine nailed a big boar that was coming out of his chicken coop with his SKS.

Why in the world did he leave his rifle in the chicken coop for the bear in the first place? :mrgreen:

[robertbank]

Darn hanging phrases.:mrgreen:

Take Care

Bob

[Bret4207]

As I said in another thread, I grew up in bear country. I've had them inches from me with nothing but a screen window separating us. I never knew he was there till he started sniffing me! The largest bear I recall seeing was killed with one shot from a 38 special RN. That bear was over 500 lbs. Lets face it, the majority of black bears are 150-250 lbs. It's not the size that kills people, it's their strength and speed. In the woods they can be silent, at night it's even worse. Even with all that I don't for a second believe it takes an elephant gun to kill one. If he's so close you don't see him and he wants you you're just dead meat no matter what you're carrying.

Me personally, I'd be happy with a 357. If that's not enough gun you can tell everyone how stupid I was at the wake.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
If I was living in an area where a bear attack was possible I sure would not be asking what is minimum. I understand the Question... never be undergunned... What is gonna do the job !
Critter attacks are so violent and vicious and and powerful and FAST to happen I want to be able to STOP them for sure BEFORE they can touch my 155 pounds of hide.
East central Illinois (Danvile) was a NO threat area as long as I was about since ETS 1974. Last time up (3 years ago) I was kayaking my favorite stretch of the North Fork River and on a sand bank was cougar tracks, large as the palm of my hand. I asked some questions about to Farmers and bowhunters and there are sightings. So I NO longer just carry a 22 Ruger Mk2 but a 41 mag 5 shot Taurus. I have lots of 357´s... but if it ever happens I have to shoot I want more than MINIMUM in my hand.
God Bless you

[Bret4207]

The OP specified what RIFLE, no shotty's/no handgun's, would anyone consider a minimum. A 357 rifle loaded with a well designed 180+ gr cast boolit at 1500 fps should do the job. If someone else wants a .755 MonsterstompingtacticaleliteMAGNUM, fine. The guy was just asking for an opinion.

[superior]

Whew! WOW! What a wealth of information! Since I first started this post, I've become the owner of a lyman 314299. I'm thinking the jungle carbine stoked with 10 rounds of the 200 grainers should get the job done. After careful consideration of the many excellent responses here, I've determined one thing. The best gun for the job will be the most powerful one that I'm likely to have ON me. The 18.5" bbl enfield with a Safari-Sling could very well be the ticket for me. I'll have the 314299's sitting on a max load of 2400 hoping for 2000 fps. Thanks all, especially to the guys with real life bear experience.

[swheeler]

Superior; smart choice on the smelly! I''l bet Tim Treadwell wished he had one.

[TDC]

As is the case with all hunting, bullet placement is the key more than anything else.... I've hunted these critters for more years than I care to count, both one on one and with hounds. There used to be no season or bag limitation on them in Oregon and they could be hunted 24/7 year around. We have one of the largest populations of them per square mile in the U.S.

Once you've seen the massive body of a skinned 450 to 600lb large adult Black Bear you realize how important bullet placement is with them. The muscle mass and heavy bones give a person new respect. The shape of a bears skull when coming straight at you is perfectly formed for deflecting bullet penetration

Every bullet and bullet type mentioned here will kill a Black Bear, some have even been killed with a .22, but unless I personally had no choice I would use nothing less than a 41 mag. in a handgun, and preferably a hot loaded 45LC, 44 mag, 454 Casull, all with the heaviest bullets and powder charge possible. I've gotta agree many smaller calibers have killed Black Bears, but I know a lot of lesser calibers with poorly placed bullets have just pissed them off too.

A large adult Black Bear can be an impressive adversary, especially when wounded, high on adrenalin, and unable to climb a tree. Anyone who witnesses how quickly and efficiently a wounded bear can completely wipe out a pack of hunting hounds is convincingly enlightened. Many people assume a bear slashes with his claws. In reality they punch like a boxer with their claws straight out then close them ripping out a huge chunk of flesh in the process.... not a pretty sight...

A hound hunters worse nightmare is unintentionally turning his dogs loose on a bear that can't or won't climb a tree, If the bear doesn't kill them all he's lucky. The only mammal common to the lower 48 I would show equal respect for, when it comes to my own hide, is a large feral pig or European Wild Boar.... mean as hell, fast beyond belief, and both are totally unpredictable and highly aggressive when wounded. Any guide with years of experience will tell you some hair raising stories with both these fast, powerful, and sometimes vicious animals... This is not an animal to make "that's good enough" assumptions with. If you decide to shoot one for whatever reason "overkill" is the best policy..

Just my humble opinion....

TC

[BruceB]

If one is truly concerned with the possibility of having to shoot a bear at close range, it is flatly silly to contemplate using anything but the MOST EFFECTIVE ammunition available. That, gents, is a good jacketed-bullet factory load, such as a Remington 180-grain Cor-Lokt in the subject .303.

One box of that ammo will literally last a lifetime for bear defence. We needn't even worry about accuracy or test-firing, since the use will under 50 feet, and probably a lot less than fifty feet.

There is no doubt that a cast-bullet load will kill a bear. When it's my own hide at stake, though, I won't be using cast loads by choice, except maybe in a heavy-caliber revolver. For the .303, factory loads every time. This is LIFE INSURANCE we're talking about, and cheap insurance at that. No "hope" involved; the factory ammo is a known (and reliable) stopper. Been there, done that (with the .303).

[joecool911]

My back up gun is a 454 Casull. Shooting 355 grain Beartooth WFNGC. Bears generally dont drop in their tracks when shot. They usually jump and run at least 20 yards, even with a lethal hit. For close range protection you need something larger than what would be adequate for hunting. Practice shooting at three targets placed at 15, 10 & 5 yards and do rapid fire from far to near. It is not enough just to carry...you must be trained as well. Draw weapon and shoot Bang, bang, bang as fast as you can. You need to hit each target like you can do it in your sleep. No time to mess with cocking the hammer either. Just pull the trigger.

[superior]

Speaking of Tim treadwell, he's the guy who thought he could live as one with bears, right?
When the Alaska state troopers arived at the site of the killing, the bear was still guarding the body pile of Tim and his ladyfriend. There were 3 troopers standing abreast. While the 2 flanking troopers stood ready with short shotguns, the middle trooper fired his 40cal sidearm, dispatching the bruin. What I still don't know is how many shots, or magazines it took to put him down. I don't think he would have tried that without the 2 slug guns standing at the ready. At least that's the way I heard it.

[runfiverun]

i totally agree with brube b. on this one. and some full metal jackets mixed in there for penetration too.
but then again i use a 41 mag on rabbits.
and from the choices in guns that he has available i would go with the sks for speed and firepower.
it is close to the 303 in power [at least at the ranges it will be used in]
and practice ammo is still reasonable. [i have one that refuses to shoot brass cased ammo]
i hate to use the old cliche but i would fill him full of holes.
i have run into a few bears while out and could usually just avoid them, but if it was a surprise. i would want the spray and pray option.

[Bullshop]

Last year a fella here come up from the world to work at fort Greely. He was walking his dog and inadvertantly stumbled onto where DOT had dumped a road killed moose. The carcase was over a steep bank and in some thick brush.
He says he heard something down the bank and when he peared over was hit by a brown snarling freight train. The bear turned back to the carcase momenterally then back to the man. He was armed with a 30/06 Rem semi auto. I believe the gun held four shots and 3 shots went to spray and pray but none hit the bear.
He tried to run from the bear but was hit again and knocked down and the bear started to work him over chewing on his butt and back. When the bear let up he again tried to run but was knocked down but this time as the bear was on him he shoved the muzzle into the bear and with the last shot broke the bears back with a lethal shot somewhere to the upper torso.
Spray and pray? I dont think so. Stealie eyed stone cold raw nerve, one shot to the brain or spine close enough range to make it good!!!
Another fella last year up by Ivan killed a polar bear with an ar15 with spray n pray but for me personally I want a hand held howitzer with one good shot.
Now I have killed many bears because here for us they are something else to harvest for food. I have had to kill only two in self defence. One those the deed was done with 1, a 44 mag loaded with Elmers 250gn boolit and I believe 21gn 2400. That shot was through the head at not more than 15 feet, about 5 steps.
No.2 was going in after a wounded bear a neighbor had hit with a 300 mag 150gn factory load near my house. It was in a five acre wooded lot near my house and with my kids playing about that area I had to get him. I did get him at about the same range but this time it was B00 in my hands and launching a 500gn soft PP at about 1750 fps. As that bear launched from a hole in thick cover B00 took over and planted that big boolit right under that bears chin and she, a three year old sow was dead right there in the air before she settled back on the ground.
To each his own but for me its one good shot with enough gun.
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

i totally agree with brube b. on this one. and some full metal jackets mixed in there for penetration too.
but then again i use a 41 mag on rabbits.
and from the choices in guns that he has available i would go with the sks for speed and firepower.
it is close to the 303 in power [at least at the ranges it will be used in]
and practice ammo is still reasonable. [i have one that refuses to shoot brass cased ammo]
i hate to use the old cliche but i would fill him full of holes.
i have run into a few bears while out and could usually just avoid them, but if it was a surprise. i would want the spray and pray option.

run,

If you think the SKS is close to the 303 in power, which I equate to muzzle energy, you better look again at the muzzle energies between the too. I love the SKS and the little round it fires, but I sure don't compare it to the big boys. Remember most all the game in Africa has been taken with a 303, do you think a SKS could do that? I always thought the 7.62x39 compared more favorably to the 30-30. Oh one more thing, ten round magazine on the 303 and one of the fast bolt actions out there....that's firepower too.

Joe

[superior]

I do have a box of 180gr federal hi-shok softpoints left out of the 3 boxes that came with the jungle carbine. I pulled the j's out of one box and saved them also. I use the brass from the first 2 boxes. I've decided that cast may not be the way to go when I'm picking chantrells. The factory ammo seemed almost too hot as the primers were flattened upon inspection so I after firing the first box, I decided not to shoot any more of them. I figure since the rifle held up through a box, it'll be safe to fire, after all, the guy I bought the carbine from, bought it new from Golden State arms in 1961 and has only had a box or 2 fired through it since then so hopefully the headspacing should be within limits. I, like so many others here have discovered the joy of casting my own but I think the seriousness of bear defense warrants the use of factory j words. The jungle carbine is lighter the my ghost ring sighted short shotgun, therefore I will be more than likely to have it with me should I need it. I don't ever want to be in close proximity of a bear again armed with only a 40cal pistol. Let's just say I learned the easy way on that one. The skid marks in my shorts were a small price to pay for that valuable lesson.

[robertbank]

I agree with Joe the 7.62x39 is more like a 30-30 than the .303Brit.

Every area is different. Up here our bush is quite thick. I doubt your first look at a bear would be from anymore than 7 to 10 yards during the summer. My guess assuming the gun was at the ready position you would get one round off, perhaps two with a bolt rifle, maybe three with a pump shotgun. A heavy handgun worn on the hip might get off two to three rounds at best. A semi-auto likely six rounds.

If you are serious about carrying for protection against bears then leave your cast bullets at home for a rifle. Slugs for the shotgun and either FMJ or LSWC for the handgun.

If you decide to spray then be prepared to pray.

Take Care

Bob
ps Fight for your life with a Black Bear. Play dead for a Grizzlie and hope he has read the book that Grizzlies will leave you alone once they think you pose no threat. You might fight off a Black Bear but you are going to lose a fight with a Grizzlie. They are BIG mothers.

[waksupi]

Something to keep in mind if you should have a problem with a bear. Although their heads look wide, the actual brain pan on even a large one, is only about three inches wide.
I guessI just don't worry about bears enough. I have been known to sit down within 15-20 yards, to watch them. I've never had one act aggressive. But I do like to have a gun handy. I kinda hate to try one with a flintlock, but know it would work.

[superior]

Yup! Jungle carbine with factory 180grainers in a Safari Sling will be my mushroom gun. I don't see a better choice with the weapons I have at my disposal. Now...if that 45-70 guide gun becomes a reality, I'll have a new prefference. ( 500 grain cast with plenty of fire power).
I must say that I agree with TDC and others that more than enough will always be better than just enough.

[EOD3]

There's an old rule of thumb; One half grain of bullet for each pound of critter, any reasonable velocity will do.

I carry a 45/70 any time I think I might meet a bear, or a greyhound. :brokenima

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Well, fellers it seems that here in AK we have 3 or 7 or more folks chewed up most every year
most of them are out in the woods when they get to close to a moose kill or a sow griz/brown
with cubs and a bad temper, it all happens really quick, if you are armed with the right type of weapon, you have one chance to stop the bear before they are all over your a__. To me that is 44 mag or larger and i am really fond of the lever 45/70, 450mag, put the boolit where it belongs and you get to tell the grand kids about it, if not they get to see the scars, if your lucky. I've been doing this for since 1974 and I have had this happen, not very often, but it does happen

Most of the time the bear will false charge, stop at 30 feet or so, but you better be able to stop him if he keeps coming, and sometimes they do...then it's all you.

I learned a long time ago not to go unarmed in the woods, and I live in the woods...I don't go to the outhouse with out my pistola, especially at night. My hair and beard are white, I like it that way. Any gun is better than none, so make it a big gun.....:redneck::Fire:

[Bret4207]

I hate to bring this back on point, but the original past asked for MINIMUM RIFLE, not handguns, not shotguns for BLACK BEAR. I'm still interested in everyones opinion.

For a Grizzly, Brown or Polar bear I want distance and something resembling the main guns on the USS New Jersey.

[robertbank]

If we limit it to rifles then my vote is for a Mke 5 LE, the Jungle Carbine. Smaller than a #4 and lighter loaded with something in the 180 gr range that has a reputation for expanding. Open sights - you will never get a scope on target in time. An 18" shotgun pump shotgun would be better loaded with slugs but that is outside the authors request. The shotgun would have a regular stock, the pistol grip option is best left for the movies. I would not be using cast bullets.

Take Care

Bob

[Gussy]

I've shot a number of blackies with a 6mm. But, none were charging.

Go with a 45-70 Marlin Guide lever gun. Doesn't matter which direction he's hit, it will go all the way through and leave a big hole. Several holes is best. They are light and easy to carry.

[BD]

I've spent some time guiding black bear hunters in Maine, both from stands overlooking baits, and with hounds. As a result I've had the dubious pleasure of skinning quite a few black bears, and fleshing the hides of hundreds more in the tannery.

Along the way I learned a few things about bullets hitting bears. The primary one was that any jacketed hollowpoint handgun round is unlikely to penetrate the bears skull from any angle other than straight down, unless you hit an eye or ear. If I had a dollar for every expanded .44 mag I recovered from a black bear's jaw muscle, (on the entry side), I could probably by us all a beer. I've seen a lot of capes ruined by a "finishing shot" which traveled up and over the skull and out the other side, or back, without even cracking the bone.

The other thing I discovered is that the hides with the little entry holes often had more than one, or two, along with drag marks and hair slips indicating an animal that wasn't recovered very quickly. Similar to some bow shot bears I skinned.

On the other hand, I knew a couple of guys who trapped thier bear every year in Maine, and both of them used a .22 rifle to kill thier bears, one shot through the ear. Every Domestic hog I ever killed was one shot from a .22 pistol straight down through the top of the skull.

I probably never worried enough about black bears, or feral hogs. I've spent a fair bit of time chasing both, sometimes alone, with or without hounds. I never found the need to kill a black bear, although more than a couple of the hunters I was guiding did. I've climbed big white pines to see if the treed bear was worth a rug, and I've tracked a few poorly hit bears after dark, (that makes me nervous). I once climbed a pine at the dump with a friend to cut loose a pair of cubs tangled in clothesline after some moron had played cowboy, (I had a little laugh watching momma bear rip a hole in the morons convertible top, ravage his groceries and take a dump on his seat while we were in the tree). I have killed a few hogs, and crawled into the briar patch among them after a wounded one. The most I ever had along for comfort was a .44 mag loaded with the Lee 310's, except when tracking stuff at night. Night work is for shotguns with buckshot.

I once worked with a guy, "little George", who guided in AK. He told a story about encountering a sow Grizzley a trip down one of the smaller rivers on a hunt. The result of the unexpected charge left the Grizz in the raft, George and the client standing in the river, the clients rifle on the bottom and George's rifle in the raft with the bear. George pulled it off, but it was mighty close, as in the bear on the muzzle when he pulled the trigger.

I guess my take on the topic of this thread is that rifles are great, but if you spend enough time around bears, at some point your gonna be without that rifle 'cause you put it down to accomplish the task at hand. The handgun is more likely to be there when you really need it, and I suspect it's easier to use when the target is on top of you.

BD

[superior]

I heard THAT!...... My task will be harvesting chantrell mushrooms and I'm relatively certain it can be accomplished with my SMLE in a Safari Sling. I just hope I don't get snuck up on from behind. All this bear talk is really sobering and is making think twice about being out there at all! I just listened to the audio tape of Timothy Tredwells last moments alive on "YouTube" and quite frankly, I was horrified. I don't think I'll ever be able to forget it but maybe that's a GOOD thing. We also have a large population of mountain lions here, but in 18 years, I've yet to see one.

[shdwlkr]

If it was me I would carry my 30-30 with 170 grain jacketed bullets min, but would rather have my .375 winchester with 255 grain barnes original bullets and a max charge of my favorite powered.
Another I would think about is my 45-70 with 430 grain lead bullet.
I would prefer not to meet any bear in the woods but if it happens and the bear chooses not to leave I want to be able to leave when it is over.
something that I haven't seen mentioned here is that distance is most likely going to be short and shots few before the bear and you are real close. That is my reason for my choices as short distances make for quick decisions. Mr shoemaker in Alaska goes after brown bear with a 45-70 so why wouldn't one stop a black bear? and he has 40 years of hunting them and I trust his decisions on firearms.

[Bullfrog]

I hunt alone now. Colorado/ New Mexico Black bears are nasty. Still reports of Griz in some areas though unconfirmed. Also, we have ALOT of cats.

45-70 Marlin with .405 FP cast WW
.44mag Ruger Blackhawk 240gr XTP... just in case

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I guess i have a different take on this, not that what the posts previous have said is all that bad.
But how much is your life worth?
1. I would choose the biggest cal. I could shoot accuratly.
2. I would the best/most relieable lanching platform .
3. The original poster, already admitted, you don't always take your long gun with you.

Of course a large bore rifle is better, but a large bore pistol is always on your hip, even taking a dump. In this case a mag. cal. is a pluse. 44mag. would be my choice.
Results have shown the 240gr. hp do very well on blk. bear.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Your 338 is ideal, would ruin any bears day.

[jmsj]

Over the years. my work up here in N.E. NM and Northern Utah I have seen too many bears to count. And have only experienced two bluff charges and they weren't that close. The bears around here are pretty docile compared to what I have read about Grizzlies.
Most problems w/ bears around here come from people not using sound practices regarding food storage while camping and usually at night. The last bear incident that I'm aware of around here was, a camper had candy bars and cookies in his sleeping bag w/him. the bear smelled the snacks and tried to get at them. The camper received multiple puncture on his leg and ankle but was alright. The other incident I can remember was in N Utah and they were feeding the bear PB&J sandwiches during the day and that night the bear came back and was ticked when he could not get more. Now I'm no bear expert and I don't doubt anybody's stories regarding bear encounters, this has just been my experience.
I have been chased by moose more than bears.
With that said I carry a 45 bisley vaquero w/255 gr.rnfp, w/ a healthy dose of 2400. I could see using this on 2 legged predator more likely than a 4 legged one.
jmsj

[44 flattop]

I killed my first black bear, it hung at a little over 250lbs, with a .38 special:shock: Yup, it was a leeeetle on the underpowered side!

Since then I've used the .35 Rem, 44 mag pistol and 44 rifle with various loads. One thing I learned many bears ago is how well a .44 and a 255 to 300gr cast bullet works, at about any velocity.

Any more when I am out picking morels or chantrells here in SW Washington State, or just hiking as I do nearly every day, I really like a 255gr SWC at about 950fps. Out of either a .44 mag or .44 special, it penetrates deeply and rarely do I every recover one since it usually leaves 2 holes.

44

[Corbi]

A hand gun is easier to carry than a rifle.

I would suggest a 357mag/45ACP/44mag mag in a good holster. My preferance would be towards a 44mag.

I carry a 4" Redhawk in the woods. Not many bears around here but we have hogs.

Corbi

[Changeling]

This seems to have turned into a "Vote" type of thing, so I might qs well cast my vote.

The man said he wanted a rifle or rifle type if I'm allowed to interpolate. He also stated minimum caliber, witch makes no sense to me whatsoever!

Your main objective is defense, and staying alive if it comes to needing the firearm in a bear attack. I would be willing to bet that you would give your donkey if that occasion ever arises for a good 12 gauge pump like a Remington 870 short barrel (quick handling) loaded with the first round 00 buckshot, and the rest the heaviest slugs available .
It would be your donkey on the line, no time to explain to him how wonderful your 357 and 9 mill is. The name of the game in your "question" is simple, STOP the SOB!

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

If that gets too heavy for you, or in the way, and you want to lighten your load . . . Ruger actually makes a gun for bears . . . but it is a hand gun . . . shoots cast too . . .

Called an Alaskan!
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Ruger%20Alaskan/New002.jpg

This one is only 44 Mag, but you could get the 454 Casull if you got strong wrists!

But try your rifle, as you already have that, just make sure you always have it with you.

[44 flattop]

So what rifle, (no shotguns-no handguns) , CB,action type and powder load combination would be the absolute minimum you would feel safe with. :coffee:
I went back and reread your original post............[smilie=1:

I guess I should just mention what I use for my 'shroom' pickin' if I pack a rifle! I carry a Marlin Cowboy in .44 mag with the stock shortened for winter clothing and the barrel whacked back to 16 1/4" (originally a 20"). I use the same load in it that I use in my .44 Special, a 255gr SWC and 7 1/2 grain of Unique and get almost exactly 1300fps. It is a short handy rifle and still packs 8 rounds if I wanna load 'er all the way up with Specials.

It is short, light and packs a punch. She comes up quick and the sight picture stays on target easily. With the Special load it is very quiet too.

44

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot many black bears through the years but never a brown or griz. Black bears arent awful hard to kill. they die quicker and run less then most deer ive shot. A 3030 35 or 44 levergun will kill them fine. If it doesnt id bet you didnt put it where it needed to be not that the gun wasnt powerful enough. Only thing with a bear over a deer is your bullet has to be able to get through a tougher hide and a fat layer. So that eliminates rounds that will kill deer like 223 22250s ect. or super light bullets in any caliber.

[johnmerry]

My carry gun and load is a 4 5/8 barrelled Ruger Bisley the load is a LBT 325 Keith gc. This load is probaly a little more then one needs but it is also my long range load. this is the load I shoot more then any other. The reason is simple when you practice you should use the same load you hunt with. As for recoil it is on the heavy side but to my line of thinking if I do have a run in with a bear in the woods I am most likely to get only one shot, so if I do hit the bear I want to hit him hard.

[Tony65x55]

Here in Ontario we have LOTS of bears and some of them are big and mean. 600 pound bears are not uncommon and I know one guide who killed five bears over 500 pounds in one season. Lots have been killed with .303's and .30-30's but there is a difference between hunting a bear and stopping a charge. Personally, I'll take my .444 loaded with 300+ gr bullets at 2200 fps...and I'll shoot until I know the S.O.B. is dead. I leave you with the following story.

May 25, 2010
By Brendan Kennedy
Toronto Star
Gerald Marois heard the bear before he saw it.
“I turned around and he was about 50 feet away — one of the biggest bears I had ever seen in my life.
“He looked at me and moved sideways a bit, I start backing up and he just charged me. He came full blast, man.”
Marois, 47, a retired steelworker and experienced hunter from Waubaushene, was mauled by a large black bear last Tuesday evening in a remote wooded area about 30 km northwest of Orillia.
He was airlifted to Sunnybrook hospital, where he gave the Star an exclusive and terrifying account of his near-death encounter.
Marois was planting a food plot in a small clearing about 150 feet inside the bush line, where he planned to hunt deer in the fall — “My Dad taught me that’s where you get the big buck” — when the bear came up from behind him.
“His head was huge, his eyes were really far apart from each other and he had tiny, tiny ears, which is the sign of a huge boar — probably 600 pounds.”
When the bear charged, Marois said he turned around and ran toward a nearby oak tree — “The one I wanted to put my tree-stand in” — and climbed three-quarters of the way up.
The bear followed him up.
Marois shakes as he tells the story from his hospital bed, his arms, legs and face covered in deep gashes.
Marois said he tried to fight the bear off from the trees upper branches, but it kept coming up after him.
“I was hitting him on the nose and on the head, trying to hurt him, and every time I hit him he was scraping me and just pulling on my boots.”
The bear pulled one of his boots off and started biting the bottom of his feet.
“Then he dragged me almost to the ground.”
Marois tried and tried to get away from the bear by climbing farther up the tree, but the bear repeatedly dragged him down.
“I was kicking him with the other boot and he grabbed that boot and he ripped it right off.”
The bear then tried to rip off Marois’s chest waders.
“That was messing him up, because they were coming back like an elastic, eh? And it was hard for him to rip them off.”
But the bear eventually got them.
“Then he started eating my flesh.”
Marois said he watched as the bear started eating into his right calf.
“He was eating my meat and he was licking the blood and licking himself and just enjoying every bite of it.
Marois suffered his worst injuries to his legs, which required a skin graft to repair. They look torn apart and scrawny when he lifts up his hospital gown.
“He ate my whole calf.”
Marois says he made at least 10 attempts to climb away from the bear and it kept coming after him.
“I was trying to get away from him in every direction that I could in that oak tree, but he kept on dragging me down; he wanted me down on the ground.”
Marois, who said he forgot his bear spray at home, then turned to the only weapon he had.
“I got my lighter out” — a regular cigarette lighter — “and I started burning his face.”
Marois said when he shoved the lighter in the bear’s face it clawed him in the head.
“And that was it with the lighter, eh? No more lighters.”
Proof of the bear’s swipe comes in the two long rows of stitches on the top and side of Marois’s head.
“I got really weak from that hit. I had barely nothing left, so I told God I was putting my life in his hands.”
He said he prayed to God to send his guardian angel to protect him, because he couldn’t fight the bear off any longer.
At that moment, the bear threw Marois from the tree — Marois figures about 20 feet — and he landed with a thud and a loud groan.
When he looked up he watched the bear dive out of the tree in the opposite direction.
“It seemed like God scare him, man. People don’t believe in God, but I’m telling you, man, something scare him. Because he got scared, he jumped in the rough and he took off.”
Marois said the attack definitely lasted more than 15 minutes, though he says it “felt like forever.”
But he knew he still wasn’t safe.
He heard the bear roaming around him, gnashing his teeth and making a guttural barking noise Marois called a “bawl” — the same noise it made before charging at him.
“I was sure I was dead. I told God, ‘Keep your hand over me, protect me.’”
Marois called his wife and then 911, but the rescue team and emergency crews couldn’t find him in the thick bush.
It took rescuers — with the help of Marois’ wife, Louise Beauchamp — more than an hour to find him. All the while Marois could hear the bear nearby.
Eventually the rescuers found him, and with Marois’s legs ripped to shreds, they moved him to a clearing where the air ambulance helicopter could land.
“That’s when I finally could breathe.”
The next thing Marois remembers is waking up in the hospital.
Marois’ health has been improving every day, but doctors tell him he may need plastic surgery to fix his legs. He says he has nightmares about the attack every time he sleeps. “It’s extremely hard for me to rest.”

[Sweetwater]

Tony - that should really sober a guy up!! Being a Surveyor, I'm in the wild a lot. One bear encounter, I was actually in my truck in a line of traffic (on a logging road). I took a picture of this black bear in the ditch on the opposite side of the road. As I prepped for a 2nd picture, he charged my truck! I didn't get the 2nd picture. Later, my thoughts were: here I was, relatively safe in my truck, and I couldn't get off two shots with my automatic camera! Another encounter, I was standing at my tripod mounted instrument, and a big sow came along beside me about 20ft. She turned her head to look at me and just kept walking to the line of lathe my partner had hammered into the ground. My partner had a salmon burrito for lunch. She started licking the lathe and walked to each one in the line and licked it. I followed her in the telescope until she reached the end of the line and walked back up the mountain. Having seen how quickly the first bear covered the 50 ft or so to my truck, the 2nd bear would have been on me before I could react. My advice it - take a dog (first level warning) and the biggest weapon you can handle for one shot - you may not get a 2nd shot off, IF it is truly a chance encounter with an aggressive bear.

Jeff

[Multigunner]

Black Bear in this state are on average much smaller than in the northern states.

Awhile back I ran across a PDF of a very old book on hunting with a section on Black Bear in the North back when forest giants were more common than not.

I may be able to find this again, if so I'll post a link.
The main thing I remember about this book was that it described a number of hunter deaths due to not using enough gun. The larger Blackies can absorb a lot of punishment so unless you severed the spine or hit the brain the Bear might have you for dinner.

The Black Bear skull and brain case is different from other bears and its brain sits lower in the head with a thick plate of bone that can deflect light bullets.
A shot through the nose or open mouth was said to be the best way to reach the brain.

[lonewelder]

I have never seen a bear in the wild,I live in TX.But would a 45 colt work for defense.They point well,are fast on the draw,recoil is easy?255@850 ?I've never met a bear,but I would feel better with 12ga slugs,or at least a 16"92 in 44mag or 45

[Multigunner]

I have never seen a bear in the wild,I live in TX.But would a 45 colt work for defense.They point well,are fast on the draw,recoil is easy?255@850 ?I've never met a bear,but I would feel better with 12ga slugs,or at least a 16"92 in 44mag or 45

I once read an excerpt from a suryerors journal of the 1840-50's where he reaccounted an attack on himself and a companion by a western Grizzly.
The pair had only .36 revolvers which had no effect on the beast, but a Master Sargent assigned to the party rode up and shot the Grizz twice in the chest with what the surveyor described as a Colt's dragoon pistol of the largest size. The bear dropped dead in its tracks pierced through the heart.

The standard loads of Colt Walker and Dragoon Revolvers were very close in power to the .45 Colt revolver cartridge. With the Walker perhaps a hair more powerful with a max load.

[Suo Gan]

Shot a real nice bear 2 years ago with my 257 Roberts. Would not do it again if I could help it though. Forgot to mention it was with the RCBS 120 gr. fn