Need advice on modifying a Lee expander plug

[302w]

I am seating MP HG275 boolits in 9mm cases. The profile of the boolit requires me to seat them deep. When I pull the boolits I find that they now have a boat tail profile since the case is too narrow. You'll notice the previously sharp base of my boolit now looks cruddy in my pic.

I'm considering having a machinist turn down my expander plug so it expands .200" deeper now. I drew a diagram below.

Any thoughts on this?

https://i.imgur.io/T8Tx6Bl_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[frkelly74]

I think there may be a concern with pushing an expander deeper into your case. You want to make sure you don't expand it to the point of it not being able to chamber. You may not want to load up hundreds of them before trying a few to make sure they work. For that matter why not try some loaded rounds as they currently are, Maybe they will be just fine.

[Kenstone]

I use a Lee 38 S&W expander plug, no mods required.
The expanding diameter is longer and a few thou bigger too.
If it's too big for you, you can stone it down:
https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-se1699-pm-exp-plug-38-sw/?search=Lee%20SE1699
works for me,
Edit: You may hitting the web of the case with the base of that deep seated bullet though.
Cut a case in half, length-wise and and see where the bullet base is ending up.
.

[Sam Sackett]

I ordered a 38 S&W expander plug directly from Lee. It interchanges with the original 9mm expander in the Lee dies. This will expand the case a tad bit more and I believe it reaches farther down into the case. This solved my issues.
Go to the Lee website and look under “parts”. Cost will be shipping only.

Sam Sackett

[remy3424]

What Kenstone says. Just order the 38 S&W expander and switch it out with the one in your 9mm die. Presto, you are in business shooting lead!

[TD1886]

If you get that 38 expander you can "lathe" in a drill that has a large enough chuck and use a file. Beaware that the expander should flare your case mouth so you don't shave a cast bullet.

[302w]

I bought the 38 S&W expander plug. If this doesn't work, I now have a spare to have turned down. Thanks!

[country gent]

302w
Pm me a drawing of what you need for the expander body working area any holes and sizes in thousands of an inch. I will turn you one up from bar stock in one chucking so its concentric and true. I have some 4140 pre hard that should be good for it. Its not a big thing and actually easier from start than to modify the old one.

[243winxb]

First, buy a RCBS die set that maintains the 9mm case taper with a carbide sleeve, not a ring. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/taurus-g3c-9mm-luger.317/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/9mm-147-gr-bullets.4856/full

[302w]

Tried an RCBS expander die and the Lee 38 S&W plug. No dice.

I should just load up a box and try it for accuracy.

[GregLaROCHE]

That’s what the NOE system is all about. A tapered expander is not the best way to expand a case. They have lots of dimensions available. If you have someone turn down the expander, you will be ending up with close to the same as NOE. The difference is that NOE expanders expand slightly more at the beginning to help the boolit start. Check out NOE’s system. Even if you have someone make it for you, you will understand more about what makes it the best expander.

[megasupermagnum]

That’s what the NOE system is all about. A tapered expander is not the best way to expand a case. They have lots of dimensions available. If you have someone turn down the expander, you will be ending up with close to the same as NOE. The difference is that NOE expanders expand slightly more at the beginning to help the boolit start. Check out NOE’s system. Even if you have someone make it for you, you will understand more about what makes it the best expander.

I can't disagree more. The 38 special plug everyone is recommending is not all tapered. It is straight sided just like the NOE. The difference is the Lee does taper at the top to create a bell. The NOE is just a .004" bigger straight step. The Lee plugs can bell a case WAY wider, it isn't even close. You can barely get bullets started with an NOE plug. I have yet to be able to use an NOE plug without shaving lead or other problems, they do not work very well alone. Lee also offers oversized plugs if that one isn't big enough, but I'm sure it will be for 9mm.

[Martin Luber]

What brass are you using? Federal cases are straight wall. Others have internal taper that will either crush the boolit base or bulge the case.

[TD1886]

I can't disagree more. The 38 special plug everyone is recommending is not all tapered. It is straight sided just like the NOE. The difference is the Lee does taper at the top to create a bell. The NOE is just a .004" bigger straight step. The Lee plugs can bell a case WAY wider, it isn't even close. You can barely get bullets started with an NOE plug. I have yet to be able to use an NOE plug without shaving lead or other problems, they do not work very well alone. Lee also offers oversized plugs if that one isn't big enough, but I'm sure it will be for 9mm.

I agree with and NOE probably makes them that way because it's easier to make rather then trying to machine a gradual taper to flare the case mouth as that is the proper way to do it.

[garandsrus]

The NOE design is intentional and copies the Lyman M die. When I make a similar expander, I increase the diameter of the step by .006 or a little more. The other makers generally increase it by .004 which I don’t think is enough.

[Kenstone]

Tried an RCBS expander die and the Lee 38 S&W plug. No dice.

I should just load up a box and try it for accuracy.

Yep, that bullet is getting down into the case where the case wall gets thicker, swaging the bullet and even may bulge the case.
That's why they make/sell 38 wadcutter cases that have a thinner case wall further down towards the rim.
jmo,
.

[TD1886]

The NOE design is intentional and copies the Lyman M die. When I make a similar expander, I increase the diameter of the step by .006 or a little more. The other makers generally increase it by .004 which I don’t think is enough.

Yep, and I never liked the Lyman M die. I like my necks to be sized in every part that is going to contact the bullet. With the M die you have to crimp it in on some chambers. I much prefer the RCBS exander.

[Shawlerbrook]

How about the Lee Universal Expander die ?

[302w]

Yep, that bullet is getting down into the case where the case wall gets thicker, swaging the bullet and even may bulge the case.
That's why they make/sell 38 wadcutter cases that have a thinner case wall further down towards the rim.
jmo,
.

Interesting.

I've never had an issue with 38 brass and soup can wadcutters. I wonder if the boolit doesn't care if it is swaged a little at the bottom.

I did try a RCBS 38 Special expander die and it did leave a ring at the bottom of the expansion.. I suspect that I was hitting the thicker wall case. I would keep using that die but it doesn't leave a flared case mouth.

The HG275 is a popular enough boolit. If I stretch the COAL at all I hit the rifling. I think the following is happening:

1. S&Ws have short throats and my guns simply do not like this boolit
2. Most people are swaging the bottom a wee bit and accuracy remains acceptable.

I'm going to test 50 rounds for accuracy. If it is lousy, I'll order a custom expander die. If that doesn't work, I'll sell the mold and buy a different one!.

[TD1886]

Interesting.

I've never had an issue with 38 brass and soup can wadcutters. I wonder if the boolit doesn't care if it is swaged a little at the bottom.

I did try a RCBS 38 Special expander die and it did leave a ring at the bottom of the expansion.. I suspect that I was hitting the thicker wall case. I would keep using that die but it doesn't leave a flared case mouth.

The HG275 is a popular enough boolit. If I stretch the COAL at all I hit the rifling. I think the following is happening:

1. S&Ws have short throats and my guns simply do not like this boolit
2. Most people are swaging the bottom a wee bit and accuracy remains acceptable.

I'm going to test 50 rounds for accuracy. If it is lousy, I'll order a custom expander die. If that doesn't work, I'll sell the mold and buy a different one!.

I too never had problems with full wadcutters in the 38 Special case. Speaking of which here is something perhaps some of you don't know. I think we all would love to have a 38 Special full wadcutter 1911, right? Well I love the 38 Super and I was told by a friend don't waste my time building a 38 Special wadcutter 1911, just use the 1911 38 Super. Well I tried it years ago and he was right. Works like a charm. Now I didn't seat the full wadcutter as deep in the 38 Super as I would have in a 38 Special, but deep enough it fit the magzine easily and shot really great.