308 Lee cast bullet seems too short ?

[dajaab]

Hi everyone,

I need your help.
First time I cast and reload a 308 Winchester. (I did a lot of pistol casting and reload, 45acp, 357 and 44 mag)
I used a Lee mold C309-160 grains (90367) and the Lee sizing die .309 (90038)
My first concern is the bullet (with the gas check) doesn't fit the neck of the case.
If I force, it goes inside but it badly shaves the bullet
The bullet is around .3085 but the case neck (after using the Lee Full Length Sizer) is just .301 !
I use the right tool, Lee Ultimate Dies 308 Win 90695
My second concern is the length of the bullet, with the gas check it's .93 (case is the regular 308w size, 2.015)
If I try to seat the bullet correctly, the full size of the ammo is 2.65, if if push less the bullet, just half of the neck, the maximum I can reach is 2.75 but the bullet is not seated correctly.
What I do wrong ?

Thanks

[The Dar]

As for the bullet being shaved you need a Lyman neck expanding M die. Cast bullets run larger than jacketed. The M die will expand the mouth of the case with a step. I adjust mine so that the bullet will fit in the case and stand straight with only finger pressure.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011246697?pid=129697

[The Dar]

The cast bullets will look and seat shorter than jacketed. I don't have the Lee 160 grain, but I do have the 150, 170, 180, and 200 grains. I seat mine to the top of the upper band. Start with a minimum load and work up. BTW I've had best results with the 180 grain using either Alliant 2400 or Reloder 7.

[Dom]

THis simple Lee case mouth beller will solve your problems. It bells the case mouth open so the cast bullets can start in with out contacting the edhttps://www.brownells.com/reloading/reloading-dies/rifle-reloading-dies/universal-case-expanding-die/?sku=100032227&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=connexity&utm_campaign=itwine&utm_content=100-032-227&cnxclid=16815258738054859924010090302008005&utm_term=16815258738054859924010090302008005ge of the case mouth.

[blue32]

Like others have said, you need an expander die. You'll also need a crimping die but only to take out the bell caused by the expander after seating. As far as seating depth, let your chamber be the guide on that.

[Texas by God]

A chamfer tool also helps. Bevel the inside of the neck a few turns and it helps a lot.


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[Outer Rondacker]

If you do not have an expander tool or are waiting on an ordered one you can do this for now. I have used a set of needle nose pliers and just lightly push then in the case mouth and turn around a few times. This will make a decent bell on the case mouth. No you probably do not want to do this all the time as it could over work the brass but honestly worked fine for me almost 30 years ago when I started reloading cast. I have used this to this day many times in a pinch. Mostly at a reloaders house asking me what they are doing wrong.

Just a helpful hint to get you bye for now. Order the die for the win.

I also cast the 160 from lee and I seat it deeper to the last lube grove. Sometimes on the smaller 308s I have just enough bullet in the case mouth to reach the start of the taper on the brass. As long as you have good neck tension you will be fine.

[mdi]

Yep, not too easy to shove a .309" chunk of lead into a .301" tube without some sort of entryway. Flare (chamfer, bevel, "bell") is definitely needed. I have used Lee powder through dies, M dies, chisel/punch heads, pointed nose pliers, and on smaller calibers, a 30-06 case to add flare. I flare all the cases I reload, handgun and rifle. Some a lot like 44 Magnums cast loads, some just a little like 30-06 jacked loads.

[blackthorn]

I have used needle-nose pliers and they work fine. For years I used a 50 claibre FMJ bullet and a judicious tap with a small plastic hammer.

[dajaab]

Thanks for your answer.
I expanded the mouth, it's much better now
Is the gas check useful if I push the bullet to the last lube grove ? In this position the gas check is away from the neck, he is between the two shoulders so he is not in contact with the case ?

[quilbilly]

I use that boolit in my Remington 308. I gives me great accuracy when sized to 308. To flare the case slightly to prevent shaving as you describe, I use an old knife sharpening steel with a cone style point bought at a garage sale for about $2. With a firm couple of twists of the wrist it flares plus rounds the case mouth just enough. I seat the boolit so that the gas check is just barely beneath the bottom of the neck without exposing the lead. I use that same sharpening steel on cases from 243 to 338 calibers. Cheap, easy, and does the job. BTW - Welcome to posting on the forum!

[paul edward]

I have been loading that bullet for use in 308 Winchester since 1975. Couple suggestions:

1. Expand the necks to a larger diameter, .305 to .307, otherwise the bullet will be resized when seated.
2. Bell (or flare) the case mouth to prevent shaving of lead from the bullet when it is seated.
3. Seat the bullet so the gas check remains within the neck. This will help keep powder gasses from burning the bullet lube.

I like and use the Lee Universal Case Expanding Die, which is actually a case mouth flaring tool. You can use this die with NOE expanding plugs to accomplish #1 and #2 above. This can also be done with a Lyman M tool.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Can I assume your 308 is a bolt action gun?
If so, seating the boolit so it's touches the lands/throat works better than seating for a 0.020" jump which is the typical seating for jacketed bullets.

[blue32]

In this position the gas check is away from the neck, he is between the two shoulders so he is not in contact with the case ?

I've never experienced an issue with the gas check or shank seated beyond the neck.

[Texas by God]

I've never experienced an issue with the gas check or shank seated beyond the neck.

Me neither. I’ve seated the gas check below the neck by necessity in the 6.8 SPC, .300 Savage, 8mm Mauser and others with no problems upon firing.


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[MostlyLeverGuns]

As others have said, gas check below bullet neck not usually a problem, crimp-on gas checks advised though, normal in the .300 Savage, not unusual in the .308 and 8mm Mauser. Sometimes if you pull gas check bullets, the gas check stays in the case, no big deal, push the gas check into the case, dump the powder, reach into case with needle nose pliers and pull gas check out sideways. Many ways to expand/bell/flare necks, I use the 30 and 31 Lyman 'M' dies, along with some NOE stepped expanders that are used in the Lee Expanding die for 308, other 30 cals.

[MaLar]

When I first started loading cast bullets I failed miserably. I was so frustrated I gave up for a few years until I bought a cast bullet reloading manual from Lyman. Don't give up things will come together for you.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000159817004/cast-bullet-handbook-4th-edition

This one is from one of our sponsors here at Cast Boolits and it's on sale.

[Larry Gibson]

For serious accuracy in guns capable of serious accuracy you will not find any winning CBA match shooters putting the GC below the neck. There can indeed be some issues with GCs seated below the necks; gas cutting of the bullet, loss/contamination of lube, GC getting askew entering neck, etc. which cause a loss of accuracy. That loss of accuracy is most often not noticeable to the casual shooter or if shooting at close range as in under 100 yards. It also can lead to the "mysterious" flyer.......

Here's a picture [from the NRA Cast Bullet Supplement] of recovered 311284 bullets fired with the same load out of a 30-06; one seated with GC in neck and the other with the GC seated below the case neck. Pretty obvious which is which.

313057

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I expect groups under 3" at 200 yards from my 308 and 300 Savage with the gas check slightly below the neck of the case. Using the NRA 50/50 formula, I haven not found problems with lube melting into the powder, even at 100*F. I do of course make sure my bullets fit correctly, mostly I use a Lyman 311332 clone or Matt's Bullets 185 Spire Point Gas Check at .310 with 5744 or Reloder 7, sometimes the NOE 310-165-FN. ANY bullet can look 'melted' if it starts out undersize. Hopefully your rifle will like .309 but most of my 30's like .310, some .311. When I need or want velocities over 2000 fps, I use jacketed bullets, cast bullets are for fun, mild recoil and relaxed BUT accurate shooting. The wind in Wyoming and the longer ranges make a difference, particularly the wind when shooting milder loads with 'standard' 10,11, and 12 inch twist 30 cals.

Seating bullets straight and properly sized without damage is probably the most important aspect of accuracy. The stepped neck expanders from Lyman or NOE help a great deal in getting bullets seated straight, even with jacketed bullets.

[dajaab]

Thanks everyone for all your answers, I learnt a lot

[charlie b]

If you do seat below the neck then use Hornady checks. They have a crimp that 'bites' into the bullet shank and won't slip off. Others are a 'slip' fit, even after seating. They can slip off, even though it is rare.

With powder coated bullets I don't mind seating with the GC below the neck. But, I do seat the bullets such that they are a jam fit in the bore. Lubed bullets I seat with the GC in the neck, mainly to protect the lube.

Your case sizing is an issue. I use Lee dies for the .308 and they are around .306/.307 after sizing. Are you sure the decapping pin/expander is set in the die correctly?

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