Low Wall Winchester in 32-20

[heathydee]

A few weeks back I aquired an original low wall with a 28 inch octagonal barrel . Caliber 32 WCF . The bore is not in very good condition although rifling can be seen from chamber to muzzle it looks rough and has probably been eroded from years of neglect and corrosive primers . I bumped up a Lee Soupcan and slugged the bore . The barrel exhibited extreme roughness as I pushed this slug through and it measured .312". Some Remington factory ammo grouped not too badly at 25 meters but left the bore severely leaded . Paper patching seems to be the answer .

I made a die to squash Lee Soupcans, which drop out of the mold at .310", down to .306".
I made a patch template and using tracing paper .002" thick , wrapped two layers around the soupcans ,bringing their diameter up to .314". I have tried these boolits with mixed results . They appear to leave the bore clean , but accuracy is little better than the factory rounds .

Is .314" big enough for these boolits or should I be going up another couple of thousandths to about .316"?. Thanks in advance for any suggestions .

[docone31]

A possible suggestion,
My Enfield had hammer marks in the barrel. It was a new barrel, but you could see what looked like a cross hatch down the bore.
My patches in that rifle are .314. That is her golden number.
When I fire jacketeds, the .311 works, sorta, but .312 is the winner with jacketeds.
Even with surface imperfections, as long as there is a plane with the bore, it should get better.
In the case of your barrel, this is without seeing the bore condition, I might try patching to .3135. I got this by sizing my .312 casting to .308 with three wraps of traceing paper. There is a possibility you are still cleaning lead from the bore as well as oxides and there is roughness from the rust.
With the sizing at .3135, smear some fine lapping compound on the exposed patch after the boolitt is loaded. Not much, just enough to leave a shadow on the paper.
If .314 is getting the results it did, then fire about 20rds of the undersized lapping patches. The grit will take up the difference without heavily bearing on the rifleing.
That was all I needed for my Smelly. I then went to .314 as the .3135 rds with grit gave the performance I desired at 100yds.
I believe, the light polishing cleaned up my bore without cutting into the rifleing.
As soon as I went to .314, and this was without cleaning out the bore, I got dead center accuracy. When I got back to the home to clean her out, the bore was great.
I did not press the grit into the paper, merely wiped it on, and removed any excess.
Iron oxide is a very stable material. It is harder than iron/steel, similiar to aluminum oxide. I use rouge in polishing, which is iron oxide.
From that point, I tried multiple layers of wrapping. Three layers of traceing paper gave me .3135, four layers gave me .316. That showed me a potential spread. As it turned out, .314 is my Smelly's sweet spot.
The spread of available jacketed bullets for the 32- WCF, is .313-.321. Depending on what it calls for, the particular commercial bullet diameter, I might shoot for .002 over that as final patched diameter. .32 Special, which I seem to think it might be, calls for .321. .314, to me, would shoot like crap that way. .323 would seem likely. 32-20, is .313. That would tell me to go .315 for final patch diameter.
It sounds like the .314 is just too light for the bore, I might try lapping compound on .314. Tight enough to go out straight, but not tight enough to hit what you are aimed at.
I am no expert on this, by any means. Finding the sweet spot with my Smelly took some out of the box experimenting. I figuired, I can get another barrel so why not experiment?
I got real lucky, real fast.
I had tried castings at .312 and couldn't hit the berm. That was with two wraps of traceing paper with the prime casting sized at .308. Three wraps of traceing paper got me around the target. That measured .3135. The thin layer of grit I believe brought it to around .314+. Now I wrap two layers of notebook paper, or two wraps of printer paper to get .3175 which sizes down to .314.
I do not know if that helped any. Mostly I am bringing up what I did and it worked. It might have gone the other way though.
I am gonna bet though, with paper, you can save your bore. Sounds like a sweet rifle, wish I had one.
Good luck, and go slow.

[heathydee]

I have done as advised Docone31. I used .314" wrapped boolits with lapping paste applied and put 20 down the tube . The barrel has brightened up and the rifling appears to be sharper edged to a degree . Patches keep coming out covered in black crud ; it appears to be never ending but I am convinced it is gradually coming out and doing the barrel good. The degree of effort needed to push a patch through is now constant as it proceeds down the bore , where as before it was characterized by extreme roughness.
I have polished out my sizing die to about .307" , which should give a wrapped boolit of .315", and I will report back when I have some results.

[docone31]

You know, I worried about giving that advice.
It worked so well for my Smelly, I was jumping in my shoes!!!
I am so glad it worked out for you also. I reread my post later and it seemed it would be confuseing. You did the sizing I would have done for that bore. Now, proper patches and I think it will smile. All day long.
That is one beautiful piece of history you have there! I have copied the full picture so I can put it on my screen saver. I have a Kreighoff Double now, and I will save that for when I am back in a double mood. Yours will be on my screen now. She sure is purty.
So, if you sized .314, smeared some fine lapping compound on, that gave you a very fat .314. I bet .315 might just be the sweet spot. Plus, with paper, rust pitting in the bore might not be the issue it would be with casting.
Keep us posted on this beautiful rifle. I at least am interested.
If you ever refinish the rifle, I would reccomend Tung Oil for the stock rather than the partial varnish Tru-Oil or something like that. I use oven cleaner to strip the oils out of the wood, and when I am stripping Cosmoline, I use boiling water then oven cleaner. I also use wax as a rust preventative rather than oil. Water goes under oil. Wax repels water.
That is a beautiful rifle.

[heathydee]

I got out to the range today and managed to put a few through paper. The load shown was assembled by pulling the lead bullets from Remington factory ammo and replacing them with Lee "soupcans" swaged down to .307" and then patched up with two wraps of note paper to .315" . I only had 12 rounds and am not used to , or really capable of using , open sights . The results are promising and no doubt about it . The barrel appears to be shining up a little more each time I use it and I am pleased I am going to get a lot of use out of this fine old rifle .

Thanks for the good advice Docone31

[docone31]

I stumbled on that approach quite out of desperation!
I had this rusty bore and I could get barrels by the brown truck here, so I figuired I had nothing to lose. Being a jeweler, I have to do off the wall stuff every day. This was just one more off the wall thing.
I figuired, if the grit on the paper opened up the groove diameter, it would be proportional. Bore/groove. I could then bump up the diameter of the wrap to compensate. Since the Smelly is not known for its tight bore and accuracy, what the heck.
The real key was if someone got the same results. If I had read something like that would I try it? Probably not. However, now there are two. As you fire more, and more, your bore will become more defined, the rifleing will become clearer.
A resurrection of history.
Thanks for the screen photo of your baby. It is the first thing I see when I wait for my 'puter to load up.
She is a beauty.
Have you thought of a tip up reciever sight instead of the barrel sight? I spend all day under magnification and routinely bump into things when my big glasses are off. Reciever sights work well for me. Both of my Ishapores have them and what a difference!

[montana_charlie]

I only had 12 rounds and am not used to , or really capable of using , open sights .
Your target indicates a passing familiarity with, and a useful capability in using open sights. But, the proof of that pudding depends upon at what distance it was fired.
CM

[leftiye]

Not being critical at all (or anything) here. In my understanding (wish Bass Ackwards was still here) - there are several types of fire lapping. First, and for the purpse of uniforming barrels with varying diameters (bumps, etc) one might use a jacketed bullet and a very mild load. The bullet just abrades the small spots. You might have to do some swaging up and sizing as this progresses. Myself, I'd be tempted to do this first, and then use Doc's method

Secondly is a relatively hotter load that will bump up a soft lead boolit. This follows the grooves and wider spots, and just polishes the barrel. I would expect that Doc's paper patched lapping with abrasive acts in this fashion.

Heathy, there sounds to be a lot of ancient fouling being removed as time goes on from your barrel. Many people clean a barrel until it shines, and don't know that they're leaving metal and other foulings soldered to the barrel, and you might be in the process of moving a lot of that. If your barrel isn't smooth or has tight spots when the crud is completely out, you might want to lap some more. Best of luck.

[heathydee]

Your target indicates a passing familiarity with, and a useful capability in using open sights. But, the proof of that pudding depends upon at what distance it was fired.
CM

25 metres Montana Charlie . Off a bench and with lots of squinting . The smaller group was the second one fired . Perhaps I was getting used to the sights . Remember when we were young and could swap focus between the target , fore and rear sight in an instant ? Those days are long gone for me . Perhaps a tang mounted aperture sight is the answer or maybe a clamp on scope mount and a new forend to suit .

[docone31]

I built three, count em, three rifles with useing aperature and front globe sights on a 1" heavy barrel for distance target shooting.
I remember back when, when I could tap things almost instinctively!
Well, at the range on the first day with the first finished, I COULDN'T SEE the crosshairs, and the aperature was really fuzzy.
Well, out went the front circle globes, out went the double crosshairs, out went the cross hair with the small circle. Out, gonzo! waste of money!
I now have in those three rifles the center post. My Ishyies that I put reciever sights on with the stock front sights are much better!
The last time I did any shooting was in the early '80s during my IHMSA days. A few years have gone by, now, and I wear trifocals! Sumpin happen. I never liked scopes before, and I do not like them now, but.....
That is some pretty good placement at 25 meters! Considering how the bore was, the biggest point is their centers. Good grouping! That is what matters, the grouping. Centering the group comes when we can see.
For those who might wonder, the AUG Lyman front globe, and the 57 reciever sight are a line up. That is on a Mauser reciever with the 99 Adams and Bennett .308 barrel. I had first tried the lower one and it was a no-go. Now the stampings for the front globe..... I cannot see them!
Arrrgh.