Heavy recoil springs in 1911’s

[txbirdman]

When using +P loads in my 1911 I have used shoc buffs but have never gone to a higher tension recoil spring. I was reading this article the other day(//rangehot.com/1911-spring-information/) and was curious if this was the consensus of experienced 1911 users.

[Winger Ed.]

Rumor has it that too weak of a spring for the loads will soon or later crack the frame.

[Jungle Dave]

I like the packages of different weight springs. Adjust as needed until it feels right with the +P. If you wind up with brass that drops about 2-3 feet away, that's about right and you would not need a buffer. I would not use a buffer in a carry gun. They are a great solution to a non-existent problem.

[lawdog941]

I look for ejection of spent cases. If they're flying over 10-20ft away, might need to up to recoil poundage. My Kimber was making them fly farther, so got a recoil spring package and tested each of the springs until they were landing around 5 ft and had reliable ejection. I think it ended up around 18lbs. Of course, if you switch lower pressure ammo, then you'd have to switch the springs. FWIW

[Gtek]

A short ejector that comes in a lot of the factory guns can possibly present issues with the buffers installed. IMHO a 1911 taken out of the 230 FMJ 16# arena can create a personal gun. You can tune one down to dump where you can pick it up next to you, hand to your buddy and the limp wrist will stove pipe it through half the mag. Also what are your intentions of and with the tool, range toy or PC? There are other ways to calm down a hot round, pin plate design, hammer spring weight being other options.

[Outpost75]

When you start heavying up the recoil spring above 20 pounds you create other issues which can cause the hammer to jar off full cock when it slams shut, damaging the sear, and in the worst case the gun may go cyclic. Shok buff and 18-pound spring with minimum 0.020" sear engagement is my recommendation.

[txbirdman]

Really, I don’t shoot a lot of heavy loads in my Combat Commander. I mainly shoot the RCBS 201 SWC over 5 gr of WST. I have just recently begun to experiment with the Lee 230 gr TC (with my alloy 240 gr). developing some heavier loads. I see no harm in using a shoc buff since this pistol is not carried for self defense and cushioning the frame a little can’t hurt. I was surprised to see that the author of the article suggested that using a more powerful recoil spring could in fact cause frame cracking in the area where the slide stop/barrel link pin goes through the frame. If I understood correctly, his contention was that the added force when the slide went back into battery would cause undue stress in that area. I had never heard that mentioned before.

[stubshaft]

I have never used a spring above 20# and can't imagine going to +P loads with a shok-buff will necessitate a heavier spring.

[ddixie884]

I have always thought 18# was about right for a hard ball gun.................

[megasupermagnum]

All you have to do is look up how 10mm auto 1911's are setup. You will find heavier recoil springs, and usually heavier mainsprings too. A lot of them do not have shot buffers. You wont find a 10mm auto with less than a 20# recoil spring, most are closer to 24#. That's 10mm auto though, you wont need that for 45 ACP +P.

[justindad]

Hotter loads will stress the frame more. If you have a light spring and your slide mechanically crashes in the rearmost position you have one type of stress. If you have a heavy spring, there is greater spring force when the slide is in the rearmost position. Impact is generally worse than static loading, so a heavier spring can give longer life when using hotter loads.
*
I put a 21lb spring in my 3” 1911, and my FTRB issues are now gone. Two drawbacks to be aware of: 1) the few hundred rounds I had with lighter charges no longer cycle the side, and 2) soft copper plated Speer bullets sometimes experience setback when they hit the feed ramp - I must use medium to hard lead or j-words. Larger 1911’s may not have this setback issue.

[Bigslug]

I've pretty much standardized on the 18.5# recoil springs for 5" .45's.

I don't know this for a fact - just my pet theory: Browning and Colt were wanting the gun to cycle when being subjected to all the nasty dusty/rusty/crusty/muddy/sandy tests they knew Uncle Sam was going to subject it to. The 16# spring the gun ended up with will compress easier and allow the slide to power through those fouling obstacles.

But unless you're a complete slob or actually expect your gun to get THAT dirty, it's always seemed to me that the gun is happier running on 18.5 pounders. An additional upside is that it will take a LONG time to wear an 18.5 pound spring down to the point it's not capable of doing the job requested of the 16 pound one.

I've confirmed that Springfields - which also use a heavy mainspring to add a little more smack to their titanium firing pin with its heavy rebound spring - will function on this down to 200 grain target loads. There's doubtless a bottom end at the point of which this ceases to be true, but if you want to go that light. . .well. . .that's what 9mm's were invented for.

A mainspring on the heavy side (the GI 23# is good for what I do) is also a component to slowing rearward slide velocity, so I'm a bit of a fan for that too.

After having seen how much a non-expanding .45 flat point can penetrate with a standard hardball spec load, I lost all interest in fiddling with the +P spectrum. If that's something you're going to play with however, the ejection pattern of your gun is a good way to judge what it needs for a spring. If the brass is ending up in the next county, you need more. If it's just pooting out of the port and hitting the ground a couple feet from you, you need less. If it's going maybe 5-10 feet from you, you've found your happy place.

Shock buffs - personally, I'm not a fan because they reduce the amount of your slide travel by their thickness. This is not a huge issue on a 5" gun because they have a good bit of travel built in which allows the breech face to run a good bit back past the rear of the magazine and build up a bit of a "running start" before it contacts the next round to be fed. When you get down to some of the 3-3.5" compacts however, I've seen shock buffs reduce slide travel to the point where the breech face can't go back as far as the rear of the mag - at least cycling manually. Maybe actual recoil can compress the buff enough, but my main concern is that the "running start" which gives the slide momentum to feed the next round, is gone.

(And if you don't already know this, when changing your recoil spring, do the firing pin spring at the same time)

[Rapier]

The 1911 has a three spring setup. If you change one you usually need to change all three, Recoil, Firing Pin, and the Main for proper and safe function.

An example say you change the recoil spring to a 20# and have a soft ball firing pin spring. Next time you go out to shoot you get a slam fire from the reflex firing pin. A slam fire in a 1911 with a full magazine is not very pretty, like having a 12 ft angry gator dumped into your lap.

That junk that was not inside a 1911 to start with, does not belong there. No buffers, pistons, shock buffs, etc, just adjust the three springs, so they keep the same ratios of weights as the factory settings. Say you change a recoil spring from 16lb to 20lb, a 25% increase, change the FP and Main springs by 25% to match. Probably the main spring will not actually need the change.

[Larry Gibson]

....... Shok buff and 18-pound spring with minimum 0.020" sear engagement is my recommendation.

Exactly what I use and recommend for the M1911 45 ACP.

[txbirdman]

Thanks for all the comments.

[DougGuy]

Since the 1911 is quite grip sensitive, the shooter's hands and forearms also figure into the recoil cycle. A firm grip makes it function much better.

This in mind, the best way I know to find out which recoil spring is best is to do rapid dbl taps at 7yds, you will notice that swapping out the springs and testing this method, the distance between hits on the target will vary, the best spring will be the one that the hits are the closest together. This means the gun is returning to basically the same place it was when you fired the first shot.

This double tap method actually tunes the gun to the combination of the gun, and your grip.

[Gtek]

In my too much time and too much money pieces I have really become fond with the installations of the square pin stop. They DO not fall in and take some time to fit nicely but they sure seem to calm the impulse to me. Ability to tighten everything up on the rear and throttling slide speed, win, win!

[1006]

In my too much time and too much money pieces I have really become fond with the installations of the square pin stop. They DO not fall in and take some time to fit nicely but they sure seem to calm the impulse to me. Ability to tighten everything up on the rear and throttling slide speed, win, win!

That is how my 10mm/40 1911 is setup. I change the firing pin stop, recoil spring, and barrel.
It works very well.

[Mk42gunner]

Back in the dark ages, when I carried an issued 1911A1 in the Navy (we were still waiting for the promised M9's), my .45 Remington Rand S/N 2225478, had a Wolff 18.5 pound recoil spring in it.

Just for a bit of insurance when used with GI mags and hardball.

I set my privately owned 1911's up with a hard nylon shok buff and the same recoil spring. I have never had to replace the nylon shok buff, but have seen plenty of ratty soft rubber ones.

I also do not like a full length guide rod; my Kimber came with one, it now has a surplus GI guide rod and plug.

Robert

[justindad]

In my too much time and too much money pieces I have really become fond with the installations of the square pin stop. They DO not fall in and take some time to fit nicely but they sure seem to calm the impulse to me. Ability to tighten everything up on the rear and throttling slide speed, win, win!
You almost sent me down a rabbit hole. I was was about to start buying parts and tinkering with my 1911, but then I took a deep breath and remembered - I like revolvers.
*
I think I should ask for community prayers here, so I have the strength to resist a long slide 10mm with an extra 9x25 Dillon barrel. Hopefully all the dies and everything for that cartridge are gone for good by the time I lose this self control.

[Gtek]

You did come to the right room for the meeting and this is the Enablers Club, the Rehab Meeting is down the hall on the end.