Seecamp Vs Kahr 380

[sawinredneck]

Been MIA for a while, life....
Nutshell, I'm getting old, my health isn't getting better and I'm finding more appreciation for "mouse guns". I've gone from an XD SC to a Hellcat, but I'm wanting something smaller and lighter now. Think sweat pants, underwear, swim trunks small. I'm not the biggest fan of .380, but I'm not going to pay $1,800 for a Rorghbar either, that I probably can't shoot.
As I see it, pro's and con's of both.
Seecamp:
Pro's
It just works, right out of the box.
Stupid small.
It's a marvel of craftsmanship.
It's light.
Same capacity as larger guns.
Con's:
It's stupid expensive for what it is.
No sights.
It's just a bit heavier than some competitors.
The Kahr:
I'm lumping in the "P" and the "CW" as they are both pretty much the same price on the used market right now, yes, there are pros and cons of both, but I'm equating them as equals in this regard.
Pro's:
Considerably cheaper.
Decent sights.
It fits your hand like an actual gun.
You can find mags that don't cost the price of a tank of gas.
Con's:
The break in, even buying used, you will need to test the gun thoroughly!
It's a little larger than the Seecamp.

Yes, I've looked at this field and have weeded out a LOT of guns, LCP, I just don't like it! It feels like shooting a Smith and Wesson Pistol of the '80's, like a 2x4" in your hand.
Sig 238, too heavy, too snappy, and just too expensive.
Diamondback DB9, honestly love the gun, but it's not enough smaller than the Hellcat to appreciate.
Beretta 3032 Tomcat, actually on the short list, but .32ACP, "Meh" and it's going for the same price as the Seecamp on the used market KelTec P3AT, again, on the short list, but a little larger than either the Kahar or the Seecamp, but the price is very attractive and they seem to work well.
Where my mind is at:
I want the Seecamp because it's so small, but the Kahr I can appreciate because it actually feels like a "real" gun.
Any input is greatly appreciated.

[HWooldridge]

One of my best friends has a .380 Kahr and loves it (I don’t know which model but I can ask him). He carries daily and had a custom leather wallet holster made for it. You absolutely cannot see it when he is holding.

The Seecamp is a bit expensive for my tastes but it’s a fine piece.

Personally, I carry a Smith 642 Airweight and like it for both size and weight.

[sawinredneck]

One of my best friends has a .380 Kahr and loves it (I don’t know which model but I can ask him). He carries daily and had a custom leather wallet holster made for it. You absolutely cannot see it when he is holding.

The Seecamp is a bit expensive for my tastes but it’s a fine piece.

Personally, I carry a Smith 642 Airweight and like it for both size and weight.

That's my problem with the Seecamp, I get it's small, but it's not a LOT smaller than the Kahr, and the Kahr is pretty small! But double the price?

[billmc2]

I had a Rorbaugh, you're not missing out on anything; recoil spring needed to be replaced every 200 rounds. Very difficult to disassemble/reassemble. It helped to have the aftermarket jig, but not much. They sold out to Remington and now they are out of business.

I've never had a Seecamp or a Kahr. Wasn't the Seecamp built to run reliably with only Winchester Silvertips? Other brands gave it problems. (I forget now, but think it had to do with bullet shape.)

I've had a couple of LCPs but found them to small for me to shoot well; still have one but no longer shoot it.
Keltec P32 was also to small for me but I liked the idea.

I had a Tomcat a long time ago. I liked it. If I came across another for the right price I'd consider picking it up. I don't recall the numbers off the top of my head but the dimensions of the 32 bullet vs the 380 bullet are not that much different. I have a Browning BDA (made by Beretta and essentially the Beretta Cheetah); its a 380. I picked up a 32 ACP barrel for it and I can now shoot 32 or 380 out of it, just by swapping barrels and using the appropriate mag.

What you might want to consider is the Ruger LCP Max. Its just slightly larger than the LCP II but not enough to notice, they'll fit the same holster. It has an internal hammer, not a striker. It comes with one 10 round and one 12 round extended mag. I've found this much easier to shoot than the original LCP. With the extended mag I can get all my fingers on it. That's 12 + 1 of 380 ACP. Mine is loaded with Underwood 68 gr Xtreme Defender. The LCP Max also comes with factory night sights.

[M-Tecs]

I have the Kahr 380. I really liked it and still do. It's my go to for very decreet carry and was my daily carry. Since the Floyd riots, I mostly carry a Sig 365 XL.

[stubshaft]

I have a Kahr CW-40 and while it is not a CW-380 and is one inch longer and a half inch wider it is my favorite for pocket carry. I have shot thousands of rounds through it without a hiccup and it delivers good accuracy and controllability.

It finds itself in my pocket more frequently than my 642 or model 36. I think that the Kahr is one of the most underrated pistols around.

[Bigslug]

The Seecamp is blowback, the Kahr .380 should be a locked breech, recoil-operated gun and should be considerably less snappy.

I'm a big fan of the Glock 42 - thinner and lighter than a PPK with considerably less abuse to the hand. It is not the smallest .380 out there because they opted to err on the side of control - it is easier to shoot quickly and well than the tiny-tinies. With a pinky extension on the mag, most folks can get all their digits on one; without, it pocket holsters nicely. A Streamlight TLR-6 flashlight bolted to the triggerguard doesn't increase the length or width and you almost have a legitimate combat pistol.

[pietro]

That's my problem with the Seecamp, I get it's small, but it's not a LOT smaller than the Kahr, and the Kahr is pretty small! But double the price?

Real steel vs plastic fantastic, better concealability, plus limited Seecamp production (comparably) is why the Seecamp gave me the best bang for my buck.

Here, with my NAA Black Widow hideout


https://i.imgur.com/O5BYms1l.jpg

[GhostHawk]

I've gone to .32's, be it .32sw long, .32acp in my Beretta italian trade in (Which is awesome btw, 12 + 1 and the holster has a spot for a spare mag)

And .22wmr, cost is about the same to shoot either. But with the .22mag there is no work casting, cleaning brass, sizeing, loading. Just grab another box and go.

What I carry the most is a NAA Ranger II break top in .22mag. 5 shots, easily reloadable. Just don't try to reach out. Wait till they are in your face close, stick it in there nose and put them where you want them.

[rintinglen]

I have a trio of Kahrs, one k40, K9, and a CW 9. All have worked well from the get go, though the 40 has fallen out of favor due to recoil issues as I approach my 7th decade. I have shot a Seecamp, but other than size, ("a gun to carry when you can't carry a gun.."), they are just this side of useless. Heavy trigger, NO SIGHTS, and a little picky about ammo, not to mention the price, I would not like to have to use one to try to defend myself. I would go Kahr CW-380 in a heart beat.

In fact, I nearly did so at a gun show a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't have enough money with me to meet his "350.00, firm" price after picking up some powder. Had 4 mags and a cheesy pocket holster with the gun and I toyed with going to the bank, but my experience has always been that the gun is sold when I come back.

[45workhorse]

I've gone to .32's, be it .32sw long, .32acp in my Beretta italian trade in (Which is awesome btw, 12 + 1 and the holster has a spot for a spare mag)

And .22wmr, cost is about the same to shoot either. But with the .22mag there is no work casting, cleaning brass, sizeing, loading. Just grab another box and go.

What I carry the most is a NAA Ranger II break top in .22mag. 5 shots, easily reloadable. Just don't try to reach out. Wait till they are in your face close, stick it in there nose and put them where you want them.

They actually make speed loaders for the ranger.
That is my daily carry around the the house.
1911 when I hit the town.

[pettypace]

There's a .380 Seecamp that shows up from time to time at Snubbyfest. It has a bad reputation: it HURTS! No one wants to shoot it.

[FergusonTO35]

If you think a Sig P238 is snappy then you for sure aren't going to like either the Kahr or Seecamp. My best friend has a Kahr and you definitely have to hang on to it. I say Glock 42 all the way. I have two of them and find that they conceal just as easily as any others unless you have really small pockets. If small size and ease of shooting is your main criteria, how about a Ruger LCP II .22 LR? Holds 10+1 and follow up shots come quickly. My example is really accurate and centerfire reliable. I feed it Aguila Interceptor 40 grain which clock an actual 1000 fps across my chronograph from this tiny pistol.

[sawinredneck]

Good info, as I expected from this group, thanks all.
A couple of things:
The origina Seecamp, in .32ACP was designed specifically for Winchester Silvertips, they have since changed the design, but do have a list of recommended ammo to use in the guns.
While I'm not completely opposed to .32acp it's only about 2/3rds the power of .380, harder to find and more expensive when you do find it. The one thing the LCP really did was invigorate the dying .380 cartridge!
.22 of any sort is out for me in something this size, I tried to use a little Beretta .22 to dispatch a dying cat and it didn't end well. I lost faith in that combination after that and wont ever go back.
The LCP max, I gave it some consideration but it's biggest attraction is the reason I don't like it for this role, loaded it's too heavy. It still feels like a S&W 2x4 in my hands, it's not a lot smaller than the Hellcat and by the time it's loaded, it's not much lighter than the Hellcat.
The Hellcat isn't going anywhere and will be my main choice for EDC, it was bought soley for carry all day, every day and it's fit that role well. But as my back is getting worse I'm finding it hard to put on a pair of jeans occasionally, so I'm in sweat pants, no belt and just a drawstring, this will be my "I can barely walk, get dressed, can't defend myself on my own, having a bad day" carry gun. Mainly just around the house or quick trips when someone drags me out.
But as many of you are pointing out, and I kinda knew, the Hellcat is pretty hard to beat as it is.
I appreciate the input so far and look forward to hearing more! Thank you all.

[M-Tecs]

.22 of any sort is out for me in something this size, I tried to use a little Beretta .22 to dispatch a dying cat and it didn't end well. I lost faith in that combination after that and wont ever go back.

.

A friend of mine ran a self-funded cat rescue for about three years. She placed hundreds of cats in new homes. Possible more than a thousand. It was a rural area by a major city. Once the word got out people just started dropped loose cats in her farmyard. She would feed the outside ones and was able to catch and place most of them.

Every month or two I dispatched the ones that were not suitable for placement do to disposition or health issues. Cats take a lot to kill cleanly unless it's a brain shot. I mostly used a 22 target pistol for shots to the brain on the ones that would stay close. A scoped 22 rifle for the rest. Only tried body shots a couple of times. Like you say that didn't work well. That was with 22 HP hyper velocities.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I owned a Kahr CW 380 for a couple of months. It was not a good experience.

To cut to the chase it started mis-firing. Pulling the trigger would get a little click but the firing pin would not hit the primer. It got worse/more frequent very quickly and soon would not get through a whole magazine. Turned out I could watch the rear of the slide rise as I pulled the trigger. The slide would rise far enough that the the firing pin block (or more correctly the striker block) would not get pushed up far enough to let the striker pass. I could hold the rear of the slide down and it would fire every time.

The rear frame rail tabs were very small and there was not enough meat there to allow me to bend them down and tighten up the slack. The right side of the slide at the rear is also very tiny where it contacts the frame tab. Nothing could be done there. I sold it cheap with full disclosure and disgust.

I bought the gun used from a gun shop and can’t say how many rounds it saw before me. I only managed to get a few hundred through it.

Not to say all Kahr CW 380’s are problem guns, but after looking hard at the design I didn’t want one anymore.

Right after that fiasco I bought a new S&W Bodyguard 380 which had light primer strikes/fail to fire right out of the box and also right after being returned from S&W. That gun was also sold cheap with full disclosure, but to a different guy.

While I’m at it I’ll tell about my experience with a new G42. Took a long time to diagnose but the frame was the original version (no circle with the 1 or 2 indicating the first revision and second revision down inside the frame behind the trigger) but had the second revision fire control parts installed, sold as new in the box.

The slide would intermittently lock back prematurely. Turns out the mag well was so large the magazine could rotate and allow even pointed TC boolits to nick the slide lock under recoil. It never ran two magazines in a row of any factory rounds or hand loads without locking back. When it did shoot, it was surprisingly easy to hit with. Trigger was pretty good too. I might someday revisit another one. It went away in the covid gun famine.

My keeper 380’s are the LCP (which has broken on me 3 times and caused me to buy the Kahr, the S&W and the Glock, but I got it fixed and running again before I could get its replacements working), a Kimber Micro 380 (bought new and is now high mileage and runs great, hits good) and a Colt M1908 in great shape. The Colt is my favorite but I don’t carry it much. The Kimber just works (and has night sights and has ambi thumb safety). The LCP doesn’t get carried or shot much anymore. I don’t hit well with it and I’ve come to expect it to break something every 1500-2000 rounds.

[Mk42gunner]

.380's to me fall into the smaller than a J frame or 9mm pocketgun niche. If you are going to carry something that is as big as a 9mm, it might as well be a 9mm.

I tried a SIG P290 in .380, decent gun but it is also available in 9mm (should have gotten that), and it is as big in the pocket as a J frame. It is very reliable though.

Next was a Ruger LCPII. Decent, no malfunctions, terrible sights.

LCPMAX, decent, a bit heavy for what it is. Biggest plus is I can see the sights.

If I could get a regular LCPII with the sights of the MAX, I would be a happy camper.

If I am knowingly going into a situation where I may need to actually use my carry gun, I either don't go or carry something bigger than a .380.

Robert

[charlie b]

...The Hellcat isn't going anywhere and will be my main choice for EDC, it was bought soley for carry all day, every day and it's fit that role well. But as my back is getting worse I'm finding it hard to put on a pair of jeans occasionally, so I'm in sweat pants, no belt and just a drawstring, this will be my "I can barely walk, get dressed, can't defend myself on my own, having a bad day" carry gun. Mainly just around the house or quick trips when someone drags me out.
But as many of you are pointing out, and I kinda knew, the Hellcat is pretty hard to beat as it is.
I appreciate the input so far and look forward to hearing more! Thank you all.

Why not get an ankle holster for the Hellcat? Or a bellyband?

I found my limits of small. Started with a Walther .25. Could not shoot it without cutting two grooves on the web of my hand. Then a little .32 auto (I think it was a Seecamp, not sure). Didn't cut me, but, could not grip it well enough. Then tried a derringer. Worked but hurt like heck and could not hit anything with it. Found I needed to be able to grip with at least two full fingers. The smallest semi-auto ended up being a PPK (which is about the same size as the Hellcat) or a 5 shot snubby (Taurus 85). A LEO friend introduced me to the 1903/1908 Colt. That was ideal for me. Light, narrow, all rounded surfaces, enough grip to actually hold onto it well. Easy to hide and carry. After getting new sights it was also very accurate.

[MT Gianni]

I have a Kahr CW 40 and bought it used. It has done all I have asked it to and has enough mass to deal with second shot recoil. Not all of the 380's will do that.

[M-Tecs]

I also have a Kahr MK40 Elite. Both of my Kahr's have been 100% reliable.

[Brassmonkey]

Friend carried the small kahr .380 for a weekend, after that he ordered and stuck with the seacamp .380 ��*♂️

[Randy Bohannon]

I like my Kimber Micro 380 real well ,mid price, well made and has eaten every thing I’ve fed it no issues.

[sawinredneck]

Why not get an ankle holster for the Hellcat? Or a bellyband?

I found my limits of small. Started with a Walther .25. Could not shoot it without cutting two grooves on the web of my hand. Then a little .32 auto (I think it was a Seecamp, not sure). Didn't cut me, but, could not grip it well enough. Then tried a derringer. Worked but hurt like heck and could not hit anything with it. Found I needed to be able to grip with at least two full fingers. The smallest semi-auto ended up being a PPK (which is about the same size as the Hellcat) or a 5 shot snubby (Taurus 85). A LEO friend introduced me to the 1903/1908 Colt. That was ideal for me. Light, narrow, all rounded surfaces, enough grip to actually hold onto it well. Easy to hide and carry. After getting new sights it was also very accurate.

I'm a rather large fellow, big beer belly so the belly holsters don't conceal well on me. With my back issues I'm not very flexible to start with and the days I envision carrying this gun, I'm not getting to an ankle holster, at least not in time to do any good.
Good suggestions though, thank you.
I do occasionally carry a back pack or a "murse", but I'm very self conscious of this, it's not something I'm used to doing, it feels awkward, unwieldy, just really haven't found a routine with that type of carry that I like yet.

[sawinredneck]

.380's to me fall into the smaller than a J frame or 9mm pocketgun niche. If you are going to carry something that is as big as a 9mm, it might as well be a 9mm.

I tried a SIG P290 in .380, decent gun but it is also available in 9mm (should have gotten that), and it is as big in the pocket as a J frame. It is very reliable though.

Next was a Ruger LCPII. Decent, no malfunctions, terrible sights.

LCPMAX, decent, a bit heavy for what it is. Biggest plus is I can see the sights.

If I could get a regular LCPII with the sights of the MAX, I would be a happy camper.

If I am knowingly going into a situation where I may need to actually use my carry gun, I either don't go or carry something bigger than a .380.

Robert

This is the problem I ran into in my search for something, finding something smaller than the Hellcat, that was actually really smaller than the Hellcat! The Sig 938?, the DB9, the LCP really isn't much smaller, just lighter, the P3AT is the same size as the LCP etc. it seemed.
This isn't a "situational gun", this is a "better than a sharp stick gun". If I'm heading into a mall or other large group, I will carry the Hellcat, or have something else in a shoulder bag/back pack. The plan for this is an underwear gun, run to the liquor store/auto parts store, then straight back home. This isn't supposed to replace the Hellcat, just something that's easier on me during bad days.

[M-Tecs]

I am 6' 4" and about 270. Tried numerous holsters and settled on the Alien Gear Shape shifter holster. I mostly use it as belt slider holster under a T-shirt or a loose shirt. In three years daily carry I don't believe I was ever spotted. I carry a Sig 365XL with a red dot.

https://aliengearholsters.com/shapeshift-modular-holster-system.html

[sawinredneck]

Friend carried the small kahr .380 for a weekend, after that he ordered and stuck with the seacamp .380 ��*♂️

Can you please elaborate on this? I'd like to know more of the reasoning for that choice.

shooting on a shoestring, you sir have had some bad luck! I had a period like that back in the early '90's, bought a Rossi .357, it was out of time and sprayed your face with lead. Had a Llama 1911 in 9mm, best shooting pistol I've ever owned, had a cop friend run the serial numbers and it was stolen, it went away and I was out my money. Had a bunch of the Jennings 22's, always loved those guns, until I owned them! I hope you find your prize.
I may look into the Kimber, I'm not their biggest fan, had a lot of quality issues years ago so I've kinda sworn them off. I'm also not sure I want a 1911 style for this role, as it will take longer to draw, having to kick the safety is added time.

[sawinredneck]

I am 6' 4" and about 270. Tried numerous holsters and settled on the Alien Gear Shape shifter holster. I mostly use it as belt slider holster under a T-shirt or a loose shirt. In three years daily carry I don't believe I was ever spotted. I carry a Sig 365XL with a red dot.

https://aliengearholsters.com/shapeshift-modular-holster-system.html

I had a local leather maker create a copy of the Milt Sparks summer special for the Hellcat, it works wonderfully and after having him do some modifications I've worn it pretty much every day since. But it doesn't work with sweat pants, and the Hellcat is too heavy for sweat pants.

[M-Tecs]

I had a local leather maker create a copy of the Milt Sparks summer special for the Hellcat, it works wonderfully and after having him do some modifications I've worn it pretty much every day since. But it doesn't work with sweat pants, and the Hellcat is too heavy for sweat pants.

For those applications I use a fanny pack type holster. With sweatpants they look normal.

https://outdoorworld.reviews/best-fanny-pack-holsters/

[txbirdman]

I had a Kahr CM9 that I carried for about 5 years. I really liked the fact that I could carry it holstered in my front pocket. Mine was also quite accurate. I’d probably still be carrying it if Sig hadn’t come out with the P365. Currently that’s my main carry gun. I either carry in a belt slide or in an Alabama pocket holster. I shoot the Sig better than my Glock 19 house gun.

[sawinredneck]

For those applications I use a fanny pack type holster. With sweatpants they look normal.

https://outdoorworld.reviews/best-fanny-pack-holsters/

Can't argue that logic! Well played, I'll look into this.

[HWooldridge]

I don’t have a large build (6’0 and 190lbs) so I have trouble with things visibly imprinting, especially in summer when jackets aren’t necessary. My daily wear consists of cheap black cargo pants from Walmart, which have deep hip pockets and velcro closure thigh pockets. You can carry and hide a lot of stuff in those big totes. My .38 snubbie disappears, and most any small .32 to 9mm single stack auto becomes invisible - but remains easy to reach. I never use a holster for concealed carry; just drop the piece into a pocket and go.

[dverna]

It becomes a personal choice. I had a Seecamp and did not like it. I have a couple of Kahr CW’s as my “light” carry guns and carry the 9mm. If one gun was the best, everyone would carry it.

The-holster makes a big difference. So look at trying a few to see what works for you.

I like the Kahr because it seems like a real gun, I shoot it well and it is reliable.

[coaldust]

I am 72 years old and have been carrying a Seecamp in my front pants pocket for over 38 years and wouldn't part with it, with that beeing said I also concealed carry a Glock $# or a Sig P238.

[sawinredneck]

It becomes a personal choice. I had a Seecamp and did not like it. I have a couple of Kahr CW’s as my “light” carry guns and carry the 9mm. If one gun was the best, everyone would carry it.

The-holster makes a big difference. So look at trying a few to see what works for you.

I like the Kahr because it seems like a real gun, I shoot it well and it is reliable.

Thank you, could you please say why you didn't like the Seecamp and why you like the Kahr better?
I'm liking the Kahr for the reason you stated, it seems more like a "real gun". But small is king in this situation as well.

[sawinredneck]

As usual, this has spun out of control!
I'll expand more;
12ish years ago I broke my back, blew out the disc at L4/L5 and a 20% compression fracture at T12, the double whammy if you will. Weather is my big trigger, winter more so. If a big front is coming in, it's not uncommon for me not to sleep for 2-3 days. I have days I can build a house, I have days I crawl out of bed, crawl to the toilet, then crawl back to bed, literally can't walk. Summer isn't as bad, but I still have days it's hard for me to even get dressed. Thus sweat pants come into play.
I have plenty of options and holsters for carry, I can easily carry my Colt Delta Elite IWB. I have most of the Springfield XD line up, 4", 3" SC, 5" tactical XD, and the means to carry them all as needed. But as my health has declined, I've come to appreciate having smaller and lighter options. This gun is a supplement, not a replacement to anything.
If I'm having a "I can barely walk, no way I can drive, but someone needs me to run to the store with them" day. I "try" to do a lot of mechanical/electrical work on cars and equipment. I'm not that great at it now with my issues, but if I have someone with decent competency, I have the tools, and knowledge, to talk them through it, but dealing with counter guys at autoparts stores, well.... So often I need to have someone drive me there to get the correct parts to finish the job.
It's messed up, I get it, but it's so much better than just sitting around and going crazier! And yes, it's a good time when you hurt so much, or are so sleep deprived, you can't see straight enough to trust yourself to drive, but it's becoming more frequent.
So, with all that said, I have better options, I have options I like better! But I'm just after something small and light that I can throw in a pocket and go. This isn't a choice I ever want to use, other than some range time, this isn't a primary gun, at least not for a few years I hope. This is a complete last ditch and as I said "better than a sharp stick" option.
Hopefully this clears some things up.

[FergusonTO35]

Ever consider a Kel-Tec P32? 7+1 and even smaller than an LCP. Load with Fiocchi 73 grain ball for an actual 900 fps on my chronograph.

[rintinglen]

Speaking to the reason why I prefer the CM380 to the Seecamp 380. First, the Seecamp uses its mainspring to supplement the function of the recoil spring, which makes for a very stout trigger pull. The trigger weight, combined with the very light weight of the gun, makes the pistol hard to control. The Seecamp also is kind of slippery, which combined with its very small size, makes it shift around in my hand when fired. Finally, it has no sights. If you have to use it at any distance greater than long knife range, you better be lucky, if you hope to hit anything.

The Kahr is slightly larger, has a better trigger and has sights. You can use it out to fifteen yards and be confident of the results. The polymer frame has molded checkering that gives a firmer grip, which combined with the somewhat greater size, gives more control. Neither is particularly easy to rack the slide on, and either is likely to be a bit picky about ammo choices. And they weigh almost exactly the same. The Kahr runs about 280 dollars less than the Seecamp.
Unless you really need an ultra-compact pistol to hide in your jockstrap, I'd go with the Kahr.

Truth in advertising laws, though, compel me to state that I carry an LCP for the purpose of very light weight concealment.

[sawinredneck]

Ever consider a Kel-Tec P32? 7+1 and even smaller than an LCP. Load with Fiocchi 73 grain ball for an actual 900 fps on my chronograph.

Honestly seriously looked at that option, problem was it's the same size as the .380 version, same size as the LCP etc., just not small enough to justify vs carrying the Hellcat.
I revisited the Berretta 3032 Tomcat last night and went on a mission to find ammo, the very little I did find was astronomically priced! There are three boxes of Winchester silvertips on Gunbroker for $175!! I about fell out of my chair! The other ammo I could find wasn't much better. So the .32acp has moved off the table for me.


Speaking to the reason why I prefer the CM380 to the Seecamp 380. First, the Seecamp uses its mainspring to supplement the function of the recoil spring, which makes for a very stout trigger pull. The trigger weight, combined with the very light weight of the gun, makes the pistol hard to control. The Seecamp also is kind of slippery, which combined with its very small size, makes it shift around in my hand when fired. Finally, it has no sights. If you have to use it at any distance greater than long knife range, you better be lucky, if you hope to hit anything.

The Kahr is slightly larger, has a better trigger and has sights. You can use it out to fifteen yards and be confident of the results. The polymer frame has molded checkering that gives a firmer grip, which combined with the somewhat greater size, gives more control. Neither is particularly easy to rack the slide on, and either is likely to be a bit picky about ammo choices. And they weigh almost exactly the same. The Kahr runs about 280 dollars less than the Seecamp.
Unless you really need an ultra-compact pistol to hide in your jockstrap, I'd go with the Kahr.

Truth in advertising laws, though, compel me to stare that I carry an LCP for the purpose of very light weight concealment.

Thank you so much for that! Again, the LCP just isn't enough of a size difference, weight, yes, but not size. The Kahr is just a little longer, less than 1/2", than the Seecamp, but identical in most other dimensions. It also looks, and feels, like a real gun, not a Jennings types or the silly Tangfolio 25acp I have, but don't trust to use. But is still considerably smaller than the Hellcat. I also am not sure about the magazine disconnect on the Seecamp, I read enough about it years ago to understand why it's there, but honestly if you are loosing your gun, I don't think you'll have the ability to get the mag out to engage it anyway!
I remember reading in awe about the Seecamp in gun magazines for years and always wanted one, but I also have to remember the adage "Don't meet your hero's, they'll only disappoint you with your higher expectations." I'm thinking the Seecamp may very well fit into that.
As it stands, I'm actively looking for a Kahr, we needed some dirt work done and the contractor kept falling through so I just did it myself, saved us around $1k in labor, so mama's happy and with that windfall, I get to go shopping! But I still can't justify double the price for the Seecamp, it's me, I'm stingy on some things. If it was a full size gun in a real caliber, sure, but with LCP's literally a dime a dozen it just doesn't make sense to me. Certainly not for the minor size difference between the two.

Again, thank you all for the input, hopefully in a week or two I can report back and see how much I love or hate the bad choices I've made!

[Murphy]

sawinredneck,

Given your criteria, I discovered what works for me 6 years ago. Sweat pants, shorts with an elastic band, etc. The only thing I found that works perfectly for me (don't laugh people) is a Thunderwear style holster. I use to laugh about them, until I found one on the cheap and thought I'd give it a try. I ordered a 2nd one shortly after getting the first one and carrying my Kahr CW9 in it. I'm retired now, never have liked summer heat. Shorts and sweats are often my daily wear. Several years ago, we had a bad spat of home invasions in my area. The time of day didn't seem to matter to the gang doing it either. Good thing they finally got that crew rounded up. But still, ya' never know when trouble is going to show up.

I decided I would jump on the 380 Auto band wagon several years back. After looking and much thought, I went with the Kahr 380. I haven't regretted it one bit. My CW380 has shot smooth & accurate since day one. And that was with my round nose handloads. Flat pointed bullets don't like to play well with Kahr's. The feed ramp is actually offset if you'll look at one. I have nothing bad to say about the small Kahr's, mine have worked fine. And, given the way the Thunderwear holster works, you may find you can carry more than a 380 Auto if you wish. There's an old saying about having to dress around the gun you carry. On a final note about the Thunderwear holster, there are several versions of it out there from different makers. Good luck on your search.


Murphy

[FergusonTO35]

I own two Kel-Tec P32's and my best friend has a Kahr. I've never measured the two but I do recall the Kahr is definitely fatter, as is the LCP that I have.

[charlie b]

I'm a rather large fellow, big beer belly so the belly holsters don't conceal well on me. With my back issues I'm not very flexible to start with and the days I envision carrying this gun, I'm not getting to an ankle holster, at least not in time to do any good.
Good suggestions though, thank you.
I do occasionally carry a back pack or a "murse", but I'm very self conscious of this, it's not something I'm used to doing, it feels awkward, unwieldy, just really haven't found a routine with that type of carry that I like yet.

YW. I am also a bit big and have trouble with some kinds of carry. If I need to carry for those short runs I would grab my fanny pack. Lots who wear sweat pants have them so it doesn't look too out of place. The rest of the time I wear a paddle holster on my hip. I also have a Milt Sparks (executive) for the 1911 but it is carried only when I can wear something like a jacket.

And, yes, I practiced a bit with the fanny pack so I could make a clean draw.

[lawdog941]

Ever consider a Kel-Tec P32? 7+1 and even smaller than an LCP. Load with Fiocchi 73 grain ball for an actual 900 fps on my chronograph.

+1 With that small of a bullet, penetration is key, and the Fiocchi load is it. It's mostly a "get away from me" gun.

[sawinredneck]

Long winded, rambling post, I app[ologize in advance, and appreciate those of you who read this hot mess.

It's been a rather interesting couple of days here.
I came across the NAA version of the Seecamp, and could get it at a semi decent price in .32ACP, going against everything I've already said. But then I watched a video with Paul Harrel. like him or not, he's a honest fellow IMO, and the video was "Is .32ACP enough". After wating the video, I honestly have to agree, it's just not! Then, as I stated, he reiterated, the cost of ammo, vs. other calibers, it just wasn't worth it and if you had one, sell it and get something better! Then the fact it was nearly two pounds didn't help!
My wife and I had to do some running around so we hit some local gun stores while we where out, Acadamy, as expected, was sad. They had an LCP and a S&W Bodygaurd, honestly liked it better than the LCP. She suggested a revolver, but after looking at the size and weight, she was over that quickly.
Went to Cabela's, the Kimber micro9 was interesting, but considerably heavier than the Hellcat. They had the LCP, LCPII and LCP MAX, but not much more of Interest.
Last stop, Range 54, local to Wichita, they didn't have much of SQUAT! LCP II's in 22, SIG 365/380 and Glock 43's. I told them I was looking for a mouse gun and was surprised at the limited selection they had. His response "Yeah, because the SUCK!" Can't fault him for honesty! He kept trying to push me towards a Glock 43, I finally said, "Fine, you pull yours out, I'll pull mine out," To which we compared the Hellcat to the Glock 43, it was ugly! The Hellcat was shorter, less tall, but just a bit thinner.
We bought nothing.
BUT, I'd done more research and found the Kahr PM/CM9 series! A little smaller, a little lighter than the Hellcat, but much less capacity. But as I'm already invested heavily in 9mm, it beat buying another type of ammunition.
So I sat the wife down tonight and showed her the options. Went through everything, those of you that don't know this site, KNOW it! It's amazing! https://www.handgunhero.com/
We weighed out the difference in 12 vs 7 rounds of 9mm, we compared sizes of all the guns I had on my lists, went through the pro's and con's. Yes, I even showed her the Tunderwear holsters. (I'm sorry, I appreciate the suggestion, but NO on so many levels and for so many reasons!!! Just the fact that they suggest you not carry with one in the chamber sealed the deal for me!} We looked at Bellybands, ankle, even with my limitations, honestly we went deep!
Then she piped off, "You really like this gun, why don't we find seat pants that let you carry it?" Because I'm an idiot and didn't think to look for that?
I kid you not, they make "Tactical sweat pants!" I will be trying a set very soon!
So in a nutshell, I'm an idiot, as others have said, learn to buy clothes to suit what you want to carry, and it's just damn hard to beat a Hellcat or Sig 365 for what they offer.

[FergusonTO35]

+1 With that small of a bullet, penetration is key, and the Fiocchi load is it. It's mostly a "get away from me" gun.

I see no point in HP handgun ammo below 9x19 power level. None of them have the velocity and/or bullet weight to be consistently effective, at least in commonly available rounds. I load the Accurate 313-76-FP in my Kel-Tecs pushed by 1.9 grains Hodgdon Titewad (not Titegroup). Gets around 850 fps and still fairly controllable and not too hard on the gun.

[sawinredneck]

Back from the grave, I'm a bad man! I fell into a small windfall and happened across a CW380 at the same time. I now own a Kahr CW380.
I like it, and I don't, but I'm liking it more as time goes by. Picked this up on Gunbroker, three mags, front night sight, well used (I didn't have to go through the 250rd breakin!!) in the box with all manuals. Shipping, transfer fees, a little more than I wanted to be in, but under $450. Picked up a "Rangemaster" pocket holster from Cabela's, I HATE IT! (Suggestions please?) Ordered some Siera Outdoorsman 90gr hollow points, $9.99 a box of 20 (I fully plan to run Underwood, just need to save up some money) but good enough to test with.
First problem, I don't know if it was the person selling it, or the store selling it, but it was packed in grease! Not as bad, but seriously close to the old SKS's we used to buy in the '90's packed in cosmoline. Spent a half hour cleaning it.
Took it to the range, groups at 7yds were amazing, but always low left, even if I aimed high right, groups were always on the bottom left. 3-4" groups BTW. The grouping impressed me, but I knew there was more, the range master told me it was anticipation. I dry fired the heck out of this thing, but still couldn't group it. Called a friend of mine and got some gun training from him. First thing he noticed was I was gripping so the gun was already pointing left instead of being inline with my arm. Fixed that. Then I was on center, but low. Had to learn to stack the trigger and I was on the bullseye shooting 9's at 7yds. I'm not unhappy with that. It's always nice to have someone willing, and able, to spend a little time and work with you then explain things in a way you can understand.
Today I did a complete disassembly, firing pin, extractor, etc., I DO NOT recommend this! Long drawn out story of me looking for an hour trying to find a little pin that went flying!
But, I got the rest of the grease out, found some high spots and burrs that I stoned down, and, managed to get it all back together! It's a little smoother now, but you still don't ever know when it's going to go off, there's no "wall", no real take up, it's just pull, pull, pull, then pull a little more, and "BANG!" They make a spring kit for it, but I'm not really sure I want the trigger much lighter, I'd just like to know when it's ready so I could stack the trigger better.
All in all, I'm pretty happy with it, I still need to order the Magguts springs (money) and definitely get a better holster, but it's sure a lot nicer to carry around than even the Hellcat, as small as it may be.

[Tall]

Not seeing any price difference. Either one sells for under $600 on GI.

[sawinredneck]

Not seeing any price difference. Either one sells for under $600 on GI.

I'm just saying I paid a little more than I wanted to, but I'm not unhappy and the 3rd mag w/nitesight pushed it over the edge for me.

[billmc2]

I use a Remora Holster for my LCP Max. I like it. They say you can tuck it into your waistband, I've never tried that. I use it in a pocket. https://remoraholsters.com/

I have an original LCP with a stainless slide. As for hitting the target, forget it for me. Its to skinny, it always sits cocked in my hand. If I get it straight, then my trigger finger goes to the second knuckle (the one closest to your palm). I've kept it because whatever I could get for it, its worth more to me to stash it for "emergencies'. What I did do is to sand and polish the slide. I got down to 1000 grit before the polishing compound. Now its all shinny and lives in the back of the safe.

[Texas by God]

I second the Remora holster. I have them for my Commander.45, my .40 Shield, my Rossi .38 snub, and my LCP .380. I carry inside my waistband at 4 o’clock.
The most comfortable one I’ve tried. They stay in place, too.


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[rintinglen]

Some years back, I developed severe sciatica from too much good eating and a sedentary job. Belts were a definite no-no. But where I worked it was unwise to be unarmed. I ended up in sweat pants with a Beretta Tomcat in a pocket holster and suspenders, under a pocket-tee. I have since lost weight and started a walking program that has restored my ability to wear a 38 inch waist trouser and carry bigger guns. But I still have a pair of navy sweats and my suspenders, "just in case."

[FergusonTO35]

I'm glad that the Kahr is working for you. I've retired my LCP as a carry gun, it's probably going to be traded in on another Kimber Micro. I can normally shoot DAO guns fairly well, including snubbies and my Kel-Tecs, but not the LCP. In a defensive situation I can't acquire a clear sight picture and then carefully stage the trigger, this is the only way I can shoot the LCP fairly well. I know it works great for alot of folks and that's good, it just doesn't work for me.

[sawinredneck]

I'm glad that the Kahr is working for you. I've retired my LCP as a carry gun, it's probably going to be traded in on another Kimber Micro. I can normally shoot DAO guns fairly well, including snubbies and my Kel-Tecs, but not the LCP. In a defensive situation I can't acquire a clear sight picture and then carefully stage the trigger, this is the only way I can shoot the LCP fairly well. I know it works great for alot of folks and that's good, it just doesn't work for me.


I'm not mad about this post at all! I get it I don't like the sights, I don't like that it feels like a misshapen piece of wood for grips, it just doesn't handle right for me, and I've tried numerous versions.
As for trigger control in a stressful situation, I've come to the realization that this is a "belly gun". Can I shoot it better? Absolutely, under the right conditions and if things are in my favor. Is this the absolute best option, NOT BY A LONG SHOT!!!! I appreciate my Hellcat and my SC XD every time I shoot this thing.
But the fact that I can, and will, carry it all day everyday, even when I've been pretty screwed up recently, says a lot. BUT, the trigger SUCKS! Typical downfall of "mouse guns".
Knowing what I now know, I'd have probably bought a Colt Mustang back in the '90's and been fat, dumb and happy. But that ship has sailed.
Anyway, I have a Remora holster in my cart, with a mag pouch, the Magguts parts are also in my cart. Still looking for decent ammo prices (come on, that was funny!) and some cash inflow.

[450 Fuller]

Interesting observations. Having spent time as both a Federal and state agent, retiring from the former-certain handgun rules apply: it absolutely
must function and be relatively accurate. The Kahr PM 9 works. I also have an original 1967 Walther PPK .380 that refuses to give up. Its a personal decision, as Det PD SGT Evan Marshall pointed out with the .357 in one-shot stops. A .357 SIG or M-19/M-66 4-in---really is reliable, UNLESS the
environment is too target rich. BUG pistols are #2, and a primary like a 9mm HI-Power, 1911 or even a reliable Glock will work. Keep in mind though
that ANY 1911 shorter than the original 5 in version may malfunction. The Browning design was full size for a reason. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam in combat. I own 7 older Colt 1911s ...
We are in a different world now, and the pistol you are carrying is the one you will have in a fight. Jeff Cooper was right. Better an alloy frame reliable full sized 1911. Its an individual choice that you will live with, or...

[sawinredneck]

Interesting observations. Having spent time as both a Federal and state agent, retiring from the former-certain handgun rules apply: it absolutely
must function and be relatively accurate. The Kahr PM 9 works. I also have an original 1967 Walther PPK .380 that refuses to give up. Its a personal decision, as Det PD SGT Evan Marshall pointed out with the .357 in one-shot stops. A .357 SIG or M-19/M-66 4-in---really is reliable, UNLESS the
environment is too target rich. BUG pistols are #2, and a primary like a 9mm HI-Power, 1911 or even a reliable Glock will work. Keep in mind though
that ANY 1911 shorter than the original 5 in version may malfunction. The Browning design was full size for a reason. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam in combat. I own 7 older Colt 1911s ...
We are in a different world now, and the pistol you are carrying is the one you will have in a fight. Jeff Cooper was right. Better an alloy frame reliable full sized 1911. Its an individual choice that you will live with, or...

Again, not going to hate on this.
I LOVE my 1911, but it comes with it's own caveat's. First, the only 1911 I own is an original series Custom shop Delta Elite. As much as I love it, I'm scared to carry it anymore! It's just become too valuable.
I, myself, am also a cartridge snob! After seeing some actual ballistics test, I completely lost faith in the 9mm! I sold my nines and started carrying a Colt Anaconda in 44Magnum.
With age, and bullet technology catching up, I'm not unhappy carrying a 9mm now.
Issue is, broken back, half crippled up, many days I just don't have the want to carry something that heavy. Many days my Hellcat will land just right on my Sciatica while IWB carrying, and WOW, that's a rush!
Tuning, like any 1911 platform, is going to be required, even on a gun that wasn't designed to not be fullsize.
This gun is shootable and functions.

[Bigslug]

Here's the thing with pocket calibers: They are sized on either side of a line.

On the small side of that line, you have the true "pocket guns" that are wonderful to carry. . .and usually generate all sorts of complaints about grips being too small for all your fingers, sights being invisible, sight radius being too short to shoot accurately, and absence of "combat pistol" features like last-round hold-open or "conventional" (i.e., 1911's location) mag releases. This is the Seecamp and its NAA clone all over. Ruger LCP and Smith Bodyguard somewhat less so, but still in this "midget" category. Nothing wrong with these guns, but you have to accept them for what they are, and what they aren't. I call them "nasal inhalers" for a reason.

The big side of that line would include things like the PPK/S, Sig 232, Kahr, Glock 42 . You have to put more thought into how to carry them, but you at least now have something you can probably shoot well. I like the Desantis Super Fly for a pocket holster option for such things. IMO, this, plus the little Glock is a real winner.

[sawinredneck]

Here's the thing with pocket calibers: They are sized on either side of a line.

On the small side of that line, you have the true "pocket guns" that are wonderful to carry. . .and usually generate all sorts of complaints about grips being too small for all your fingers, sights being invisible, sight radius being too short to shoot accurately, and absence of "combat pistol" features like last-round hold-open or "conventional" (i.e., 1911's location) mag releases. This is the Seecamp and its NAA clone all over. Ruger LCP and Smith Bodyguard somewhat less so, but still in this "midget" category. Nothing wrong with these guns, but you have to accept them for what they are, and what they aren't. I call them "nasal inhalers" for a reason.

The big side of that line would include things like the PPK/S, Sig 232, Kahr, Glock 42 . You have to put more thought into how to carry them, but you at least now have something you can probably shoot well. I like the Desantis Super Fly for a pocket holster option for such things. IMO, this, plus the little Glock is a real winner.

And I knew all of this going in, honestly had several gun store employee's do their best to talk me out of this road. Friends told me the Hellcat was the best compromise I should make as well.
I get it.
But, I'm still not disappointed with this choice. I really like the gun, and it's size. I wish it was more powerful, but I'm just now warming back up to the 9mm, so there's that. But .380 has worked for 100 years. I'm getting better with it, better ammo will make me feel better and I'll always have better options available if I feel I need them.
Honestly, with the little traveling around I do do, this thing is just about perfect. Run to the liquor store, Autoparts store or a quick dinner in a small neighboring town, this and a spare mag feel about right.

[sawinredneck]

I'm very invested in this gun now! Remora with a mag pouch (I'll give it a try at least), three spring sets from Magguts (may as well do them all!) 100rds of Underwood Xtreme Defender, and because, I ordered the trigger spring kit and stainless striker guide from Galloway.
The LCPplus holds 10+1, is bigger, and heavier. This will give me 7+1 in a small footprint, I'm ok with that compromise.
I keep forgetting, I'm really glad I didn't go the Seecamp route, I don't think anything would have been enjoyable with that gun in .380! Then the Kahr really isn't that much bigger, but it sure shoots better than I imagine the Seecamp would.
Now I wait and hope the next time I tear into the slide it doesn't take me an hour to find all the parts that shot across my shop.
Thank you all so much for the guidance and insight!

[Uncle Grinch]

This has been a very interesting thread. Lots of opinions and facts, both on handgun and holster. Like most I’ve gone to smaller and lighter, from Colt Officer, to Sig P320SC, to Sig P365, and many others over my 75 years . The Criteria was weight vs. power. Going from 45 ACP to 9mm, to 380 was a real mental challenge for me. Since I’ve always been a 1911 guy, I ended up working my way back to the 9mm in an Sig P938, which I carry in a DeSantis Scorpion holster. It works for me, but may not work for everyone. We are all different and have different needs and different expectations.

[dverna]

This has been a very interesting thread. Lots of opinions and facts, both on handgun and holster. Like most I’ve gone to smaller and lighter, from Colt Officer, to Sig P320SC, to Sig P365, and many others over my 75 years . The Criteria was weight vs. power. Going from 45 ACP to 9mm, to 380 was a real mental challenge for me. Since I’ve always been a 1911 guy, I ended up working my way back to the 9mm in an Sig P938, which I carry in a DeSantis Scorpion holster. It works for me, but may not work for everyone. We are all different and have different needs and different expectations.

You nailed it.

I only have one 1911 .45 left, and I never carry it. 9mm may be sneered at but it is better than nothing. The new line of SD bullets make the 9mm "decent" IMO.

I pocket carried a couple of guns for a while, but it does not work for me. Too slow and I carry too much other crap in my pockets. A tuckable holster is what works for me.

[charlie b]

I was comfortable carrying a 380 or 9mmMAK for quite a few years. Modern ammo made the choice easier.

[Texas by God]

The “Angry” little LCP became easier to control with these grips(Pink was half price!) and neon green nail polish on the front sight.
Two six round magazines at 20’ here.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/0107b643f894953e0befa72c41b6e865.jpg


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[FergusonTO35]

Just today I traded my LCP on a Savage Axis .308 with wood stock. Whoever ends up with the LCP will be getting a really good little pistol, it just didn't work for me. The Kimber Micro is the smallest .380 I can shoot well, and it really isn't harder to carry than an LCP. Probably end up with a second one at some point, I have duplicates of all my favorite guns!

[sawinredneck]

Next update, apparently it takes a while to get a Remora holster, like 10-12 days to even ship it.
Got the Magguts springs, one mag didn't want to come apart or go back together, nearly lost the lock plate, but won, one mag went really easy and one mag didn't want to go back together at all. But they all hold 7rds now, so there's that.
The Galloway Precision springs, this really surprised me! If you own one of these, I highly recommend you do this update! After taking it apart to clean all the grease out of it, I wasn't impressed with the plastic striker guide, the only real reason I did the upgrade, but opted to get the spring kit as well while I was in there. What a significant improvement it made! It doesn't really feel lighter to me, I didn't measure before and after, but the feel is completely different. It's still a long drawn out pull, but you can actually feel the wall where it's going to break now. The takeup is different, lighter and smoother, then you hit a wall, then it goes, more like a Springfield or a Glock, there's no "surprise, I'm going boom now!" it's takeup, wall, then "BOOM!" I'm honestly amazed at the difference it's made.

[FergusonTO35]

Will remember that, thanks. My BFF has a CW380 and likes it very much.

[RJM52]

Read most of this thread and am glad you decided on the Kahr... I've been carrying one (P380) for about 10 years and have been qualifying yearly for my LEOSO with one.

Besides the P380 I also qualify with a G19, Colt Commander and a Kahr PM9...and in the last three years the P380 has made 60/60 every time, something which the larger guns have not.

And we also carry the same defensive ammo...as I do in the G19, Colt .38 Super and PM9...doesn't get any better than that...

Bob

[sawinredneck]

Need some reassurance now, I guess? I got the Remora holster and mag pouch today, as of right now, I’m hating it! I ordered it with their version of the combat cut and the narrow sweat shield. It’s huge! I intend for this to be a pocket holster, which it just barely does! IWB it may shine, but not the main reason I got it. The mag pouch is massive! I think my Hellcat mag might get lost in it. It just swallows the Karh mag.
I also bought this for a better fit, I specifically noted make and model when I ordered and front to back it’s better, but I can still easily slide a finger into the trigger guard. I’m going to try to add pictures, but really not happy with this purchase.
316928316929316930316931

[dverna]

I understand completely. I have a lot of holsters that did not work as I had hoped.

I gave up on pocket carry after about a year. I hope you have a better outcome.

[sawinredneck]

For giggles, the Hellcat:
316973316974316975

[sawinredneck]

I understand completely. I have a lot of holsters that did not work as I had hoped.

I gave up on pocket carry after about a year. I hope you have a better outcome.
The “crappy” Rangemax holster actually works quite well, I’m just going to have to find a seamstress willing to work with it, and the gun, to make it better. But the Remora, this is NOT what I was expecting.

[fecmech]

I started with a KelTecP3AT and still have it today. For me it works. Light, thin and small, 100%reliable, over all it's a great pocket gun. Not fun to shoot with the Ranch Dog bullets but I have confidence in it.

[FergusonTO35]

Sizing on pocket holsters tends to be way off. Way too big or way too small. The cheapo Allen pocket holsters are actually really good but don't believe the factory sizing chart for a second.

[rintinglen]

I was feeling left out, but yesterday when I went to the Fun Store, I found a clean, used P380 with 5 mags for $400 bucks out the door. If it works well, I may replace my LCP with this due to the better sights. This has Trijicon Night Sights, though they are pretty dim.

317437

I'll get to shoot it Wednesday!

[FergusonTO35]

Great deal!

[Gray Fox]

If night sights are important to you, you might want to contact Kahr and see what they would charge to have you send the slide in for new sights. It may be reasonable. Failing that there may be an XS sight combo that would work. GF

[rintinglen]

Shot really well--no malfs in about 75 rounds with three different ammo types. Seems to dote on the Remington 88 grain HP stuff as well as my Accurate 35-100L hand loads. Really easy to shoot well, those Trijicon sights are dead on at 7-10 yards.

[sawinredneck]

Very nice score! Look into the spring upgrades, I promise you’ll like it even better afterwards.

I’m completely blown away by Remora holsters, they have been amazing! Seriously amazing! I got in contact with them about the fitment issue and they asked me to draw my gun on the original holster with a fabric pencil and send it back, they even sent me a shipping label. I’m not going to lie, my expectations were low. They went so far above and beyond anything I could have expected! It fits perfectly, so much nicer. I had mentioned I wanted to use it for pocket carry so I was really shocked that they included another, smaller holster as well, that is also perfectly fitted to my gun! I’m completely blown away!
To all of you that recommended them, THANK YOU! To anyone that was put off by my comments, I apologize and anyone that’s on the fence, I can’t recommend them enough!
317489317490

[rintinglen]

I managed to put another box of FMJ's and about 60 handloaded 356-242 Lyman 92 grain boolits through mine with no malfs and really excellent accuracy. The night sights work well in real darkness. What I like is they make recognizing your pistol on the motel night stand easy, so you can grab the gun and not your wallet without turning on the light when something goes bump in the night.

[sawinredneck]

Isn't it amazing how small those dots are, but they sure work well? I, like yourself, have really come to appreciate the night sites.