An expensive mistake…

[jdgabbard]

Ok, so it’s not the most expensive mistake I’ve made. But they’re not exactly a dime a dozen.

I was out of cleaning solution for my ultra sonic cleaner. Looking around on the web I found a few references to using a recipe in ultra sonic cleaners to clean up dirty brass.

The recipe calls for water, vinegar, salt, and soap. The quantities are a quart of water, a cup of vinegar, a tbsp of salt, and a tbsp of dish soap. Now at first this seemed somewhat reasonable. After all, in mild solutions that can clean up most metallic items. However, in hindsight it wasn’t the smartest move. Being involved in hobby electronics I have occasionally etched circuit boards using a mixed of vinegar, salt, and hydrogen peroxide as an oxidizer. The salt and vinegar being the ingredients need to properly etch when supplied with a little heat.

Turns out that it also works perfectly to etch stainless steel as well. The photos below are pictures around the heating element of a Lyman Ultrasonic cleaner. At first I didn’t notice anything unusual. However after allowing the mixture to warm up I turned the cleaner on. It ran for a few seconds before tripping the GFCI outlet. Knowing something was up I looked around and noticed water under the cleaner. I unplugged everything and noticed the cleaner was leaking. After emptying it out I found the holes below.

Some lessons you learn the hard way. Anyhow, don’t use vinegar in your ultra sonic cleaners…

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[lar45]

Wow!
Thanks for the heads up.

[405grain]

My chemistry is a little fuzzy but if I remember correctly vinegar is a solution of water and acetic acid. The boiling point of acetic acid is higher than water, so when you heat it the water will start evaporating, which concentrates the acetic acid. When you add salt to acetic acid it converts it to hydrocloric acid. Again, I may be mistaken, it's been awhile.

[Winger Ed.]

Wow.

Going forward- If you use something more tame in it like 409, JB weld might hold for plugging the hole.

I've had good luck fixing gas tanks and even radiators with it.
I never tested the system, but they say you can fix a cracked battery case with it too.

[charlie b]

I cheated and looked it up. You are correct. Salt and vinegar yield sodium acetate and hydrogen chloride (in liquid form, hydrochloric acid).

I had forgotten that so am glad you brought it up. I knew the salt made the vinegar more potent but forgot what the reaction was.

PS I either use water with Dawn or Citric Acid in my ultrasonic cleaner.

[Winger Ed.]

I had forgotten that so am glad you brought it up. I knew the salt made the vinegar more potent but forgot what the reaction was.

There's a lot of little known Chemistry out there.............
How else could have the 'A' Team guys make a bomb out of green beans, 2 birthday candles, a bar of soap and a paper clip.

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, I’ve dealt with all kinds of chemicals over the years with my various hobbies. I should have known that this wasn’t a good idea. But it is what it is. Chalk it up as a life lesson. But I want you guys to learn from my mistakes as well.


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[stubshaft]

Wow, thanks for the heads up!

[charlie b]

^^^signature line says it all.

There are always things we remember....until we don't. :)

I know bleach mixes badly with something but I always get it wrong, so, I never mix it with anything and store it away from everything else.

[Charlie Horse]

I once used vinegar/peroxide to clean the bore of a nickel S&W 29. The solution came out of the barrel ORANGE.

[Rickf1985]

^^^signature line says it all.

There are always things we remember....until we don't. :)

I know bleach mixes badly with something but I always get it wrong, so, I never mix it with anything and store it away from everything else.

Bleach and vinegar will create chlorine gas! This is something well worth remembering

[Maven]

jdgabbard, Duct tape inside and out will cure your problem, but even better is this product: https://www.amazon.com/Slime-20040-SKABS-Pre-Glued-Patch/dp/B07H53RQVB/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2DFHSXDXVSDPL&keywords=skabs&qid=1680792071&s=apparel&sprefix=skabs%2Cfashion%2C103&sr=1-1-catcorr. Trust me they work. Just follow the instructions and use on both sides of the vessel. Btw, your local bike shop should have them in stock as well.

[Rickf1985]

As far as repairing his tank you have to remember that this is an ultrasonic cleaner so anything you add to the tank will either ruin the cleaning ability or be knocked off by the ultrasonic. It could be Tig welded and polished

[jdgabbard]

It’s not worth repairing. Any repair that would actually hold up and still function properly would cost more than a new ultrasonic cleaner. I’m not even certain I’m going to bother with buying a new one. I have a vibratory tumbler. And I can always clean my brass in soapy water in a bucket.


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[GregLaROCHE]

I went to use my ultrasound the other day and found it had two pinholes in it. I Hadn’t used it much. It may be better to put the parts and solution in a ziplock bag and put that in plain water, as some people have talked about.

[15meter]

All I've ever used is Krud Kutter from Lowes. Seems to do a pretty good job of cutting the grease and oil and the ultrasonic action just speeds the process up.

Not brave enough to mix my own. I remember my experiences in high school/college chemistry as being dismal.

As in lucky to get out alive.

[ukrifleman]

Warm water and bicarbonate of soda (baking powder) works for me.
ukrifleman

[farmerjim]

Never mix bleach with an acid like vinegar. It will give off chlorine gas.

[popper]

vinegar/peroxide lead cleaner that is hard on steel!

[gwpercle]

I see all the cleaning concoctions involving vinegar , hydrogen peroxide , salt and other cleanser's and they scare me ... they just look like a recipe for damaged brass .

Water and a little Dawn Dishwashing Soap ...
if it won't harm baby ducks , then it won't harm my brass !
Gary

[justindad]

Midway has a Hornady unit on sale.

[DocSavage]

Bleach and ammonia creates chlorine gas bad juju.

[Kosh75287]

My chemistry is a little fuzzy but if I remember correctly vinegar is a solution of water and acetic acid. The boiling point of acetic acid is higher than water, so when you heat it the water will start evaporating, which concentrates the acetic acid. When you add salt to acetic acid it converts it to hydrocloric acid. Again, I may be mistaken, it's been awhile.

Is this container sealed? Because otherwise, the HCl(aq.) turns to HCl(g), which disassociates to H+(g) and Cl- (g). The alternate pathway is that NaCl + Acetic acid, under heat, in a sealed container, produces mono-chloroacetic acid, which is likely to be to dilute and too weak an acid in any concentration, to corrode stainless steel.
I'm thinking another mechanism is responsible for this, but I only had one semester of inorganic (metallurgical) chemistry.

[M-Tecs]

Water, vinegar and salt are common ingredients for lots of recipes like pickling and canning. I use this combination of ingredients and they are boiled in a SS kettle. Been using the same kettle for this since about 1985. Zero corrosion? First I heard of it being hard on SS? Later these cooking items will be washed with soap??

I would also be looking for other causes?

[jdgabbard]

Water, vinegar and salt are common ingredients for lots of recipes like pickling and canning. I use this combination of ingredients and they are boiled in a SS kettle. Been using the same kettle for this since about 1985. Zero corrosion? First I heard of it being hard on SS? Later these cooking items will be washed with soap??

I would also be looking for other causes?

Vinegar and salt is commonly used as an etchant. Like I have said, I’ve etched circuit boards with it before. Though usually with the help of an oxidizer, ie peroxide. There wasn’t any corrosion prior to using the solution that same day. So unless the cat decided to poor something a little more caustic in while I wasn’t looking it is most definitely is responsible for the damage.


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[Rickf1985]

Those holes look like cavitation holes you see on boat props. If you look at the action of the liquid around the ultrasonic emitters under the vessel that is where the cavitation is occurring. Possible the chemical reaction together with the cavitation is what caused the holes. I have a 4 gallon unit I use for cleaning carburetors and I use fairly potent carb cleaning solution in that, heated to 150 degrees. The solution stays in there for months. So far no problems and I have been using that cleaner for 5 years now.

[jdgabbard]

Those holes look like cavitation holes you see on boat props. If you look at the action of the liquid around the ultrasonic emitters under the vessel that is where the cavitation is occurring. Possible the chemical reaction together with the cavitation is what caused the holes. I have a 4 gallon unit I use for cleaning carburetors and I use fairly potent carb cleaning solution in that, heated to 150 degrees. The solution stays in there for months. So far no problems and I have been using that cleaner for 5 years now.

That is very possible. As I mentioned before, when etching circuit boards an oxidizer is used to oxidize the surface, then the acid can easily remove the oxidization, which then oxidizes again, and so on... IF there are cavitations at those specific spots, if it is knocking dissolved oxygen out of solution it very could be forcing a similar action in this application. That is a very interesting observation though.