Studded Snow Tires

[GregLaROCHE]

It’s been a long time since I had studded tires, but last year I decided to get some because, even though we don’t get much snow, we can have a lot of icy situations. We just changed them to summer tires and I noticed that they didn’t seem to have worn as much as the all terrain tires we normally use. The small utility van that my wife uses to go to markets to sell our cheese, does the same route and distance each year. Is it possible that studs help keeping the wear down?
Thanks

[metricmonkeywrench]

Possible, but more likely the different rubber compounds used in the tires. Or the tread design itself. The all terrains may be of a softer compound to quiet road noise and “improve” grip.

[Gewehr-Guy]

It could also be that they are older tires that have set in inventory longer, and had time to cure and age longer. I try to keep certain agricultural tires on hand to age harden, because when new and soft they cut and puncture easily by crop stubble.

[.429&H110]

Zambonis have studded tires.
If you try to turn a Zamboni too hard, too fast
it will go through the hockey boards.

I didn't drive the thing, I fixed the boards.

Studs are great until you try to stop, and the ice wedges them off the road.
It's four wheel drive, not four wheel stop.

If you think you need studs, you really need chains.
I ran Blizzaks on my Tacoma, best tires I found for packed snow.

[megasupermagnum]

Zambonis have studded tires.
If you try to turn a Zamboni too hard, too fast
it will go through the hockey boards.

I didn't drive the thing, I fixed the boards.

Studs are great until you try to stop, and the ice wedges them off the road.
It's four wheel drive, not four wheel stop.

If you think you need studs, you really need chains.
I ran Blizzaks on my Tacoma, best tires I found for packed snow.

I can't disagree more. After this winter I'm getting studded tires. There's simply no comparison on ice. I have one of the best snow tires they make, but they still arent even ballpark what studs do.

[uscra112]

Studs need a hard compound to stabilize them and keep then from being ejected. Many. MANY years ago we used to stud our own for ice racing on Lake Winnipesauki.

[GregLaROCHE]

Snow is not the problem, it’s ice. Here winter temperatures often hover just above or below freezing. When there is snow in a day or two it turns to slush and then freezes hard. The studs really made a difference. Once I saw how the studs dug into the ice of our inclined driveway. Definitely getting them again this coming winter.

I had a lot of experience with chains. They are aren’t the right solution here. Can’t beat them in deep snow and sure they are good for ice, but as soon as you are on dry road, you need to quickly take them off. Back in Alaska I could go a lot of places four wheel drive with only snow tires couldn’t. I had two wheel posi traction and heavy duty chains and a good load. Chains are good for dirt roads turned to mud too.

[snowwolfe]

Zambonis have studded tires.
If you try to turn a Zamboni too hard, too fast
it will go through the hockey boards.

I didn't drive the thing, I fixed the boards.

Studs are great until you try to stop, and the ice wedges them off the road.
It's four wheel drive, not four wheel stop.

If you think you need studs, you really need chains.
I ran Blizzaks on my Tacoma, best tires I found for packed snow.

Totally disagree. We changed to studded tires every winter during all the decades we lived in Alaska. The braking advantage of the studded tires was a HUGE improvement over non studded tires.
Have you actually ran a set of studded tires for a winter when the roads are icy?

[jonp]

Possible, but more likely the different rubber compounds used in the tires. Or the tread design itself. The all terrains may be of a softer compound to quiet road noise and “improve” grip.

Probably this. What type do you have? I found Hakkapeliitta's to wear like iron. When we were driving on different road surfaces along with the snow and ice we always used sand treads.

[uscra112]

The Finns do make the best winter tires, by far.

[Hannibal]

If I think it's bad enough to need studded snow tires or chains I leave the vehicles parked. I'm too old and cranky for 'excitement' like that.

If they perfect the art of re-animating a corpse I might think about it. But it will probably be expensive with side effects.

I'm good with staying home.

[uscra112]

Until you run out of groceries.

[M-Tecs]

Part of living in the frozen north in rural areas is dealing with icy and snow-covered roads. Studded tires are superb for dealing with icy roads. When I lived in ND I ran the all the time. Can't do that in MN. The one thing to be aware of with studded tires is that you have greatly increased stopping abilities that most of the other drivers do not have.

I also have chains for when things get really tough. Mostly use for hunting in mud or snow. Some states have a 30 MPH limit when running chains. I have both front and rear chains for my 2002 Chevy 4X4. I've never put the fronts on. They are for emergencies only. Throwing a chain on the front of the 4X4 truck can get expensive really quickly. With just rear chains I blew the fog lights out three times from pushing snow while late season goose hunting. It would be more but I stopped replacing the fog lights. That will not be happening with my new truck. Tires are a different size so I will need to purchase a new set. Not sure if I will get ones for the front.

https://www.thecarpicks.com/best-tire-chain-reviews/

2. Disadvantages of Tire Chains
2.1. Limits your speed
Tire chains are amazing for road traction in conditions when only your normal tire doesn’t get good stability or grasp on the road. Whether this is due to snow, ice, mud, or rain, tire chains can help you avoid skidding and slipping. However, even though you’ll feel safer driving with tire chains, you will also be forced to slow down. The legal limit to driving with tire chains is 30 mph since anything faster than that can result in damage to the road, the chains, or your tires.

2.2. Higher fuel consumption
If you have a pickup truck, the chances are that you are already upset at the high fuel consumption. You should know that your fuel consumption will go up when driving with tire chains. Not only are they a bit heavy, but the additional traction requires a bit of extra fuel to be burned. This is both expensive, and the opposite of eco-friendly.

[KenH]

I read about snow tires, chains, studs, etc...... I don't know anything about them. I live South of I-10 here in Alabama for a reason. I don't like COLD!!!

[uscra112]

Going up the Front Range on I-70 out of Denver they have pull-off areas specifically signed as "chain-up" sites. Law says you can't go further without chains during a declared snow emergency. I've seen snow like that in Michigan (drifts to the top of the tires), that my Cherokee just laughed at, and with plain Michelin all-weather tires at that. I've had enough, though. When I retired I moved South. To Ohio.

[Hannibal]

Until you run out of groceries.

That's what big cabinets are for. Folks in remote regions have been doing it a long time. It's not that hard if you think ahead.

As a group people are stupid. Forecast calls for snow/ice.and.you can't find any toilet paper, milk, bread or eggs or gasoline anywhere. Never think a thing about what they'll do if the electricity is off for a week.

[M-Tecs]

That's what big cabinets are for. Folks in remote regions have been doing it a long time. It's not that hard if you think ahead.

True but that doesn't help when you have to go to work.

[Hannibal]

I've never considered going to work worth dying over. That company will survive without me.

What is the leading cause of premature death?

Auto accidents.

[M-Tecs]

I've never considered going to work worth dying over. That company will survive without me.

What is the leading cause of premature death?

Auto accidents.

I considered going to work a better option than starving. In some cases/locations icy conditions last for weeks. If your state allows it studded tires are a great benefit. For the ranchers cattle have to be feed and or watered. That may require driving on icy blacktop. Staying home is not a realistic option for some.

[Hannibal]

I'll never starve. That's ridiculous to suggest. Might not eat what I want but starve? Not gonna happen. Ice or no ice. Some people just don't know how to deal with adversity.

[megasupermagnum]

If I think it's bad enough to need studded snow tires or chains I leave the vehicles parked. I'm too old and cranky for 'excitement' like that.

If they perfect the art of re-animating a corpse I might think about it. But it will probably be expensive with side effects.

I'm good with staying home.

You would be out of work here. We get by with snow tires and 25mph, but after 5 months it really gets old. I'm not putting on chains twice a day to go to work. Some states like Minnesota just salt the roads like it's going out of style. Other states like the Dakotas you are on your own. They can be glare ice for weeks.

[M-Tecs]

I'll never starve. That's ridiculous to suggest. Might not eat what I want but starve? Not gonna happen. Ice or no ice. Some people just don't know how to deal with adversity.

Like learning how to and being equipped to deal with adverse driving conditions so you don't get fired?

Having the ability for feed/water your livestock is actually dealing with adversity. Same for people getting to work for critical jobs. Stocking your panty and hiding from adversity (icy roads) works for some. Not so much for others.

People tend to get upset when no one shows up to the power plants and the electricity goes out. Same for the lineman staying home during a storm. Same for people dying when the doctors and nurses stay home. Dealing with adversity apparently means different things to different people.

In rural areas it's common that people drive 50 or 60 miles one way to work. My cousin drives 82 miles one way to her nursing job. If she opted not to drive to work when the roads are icy she would be unemployed. Yes, she learned to deal with adverse conditions by learning how to drive on ice. For winter she has studded tires, winter survival clothes and a heater and a
survival food supply with TP. In the small town I grew up in most commute at least 15 miles one way. My HS best friend is a lineman. Staying home is not an option for him??? I do know lots of people that don't have a clue what real adversity is let alone how to deal with it.

Next week will be the one-year anniversary of my father going into a small-town hospital. It was the start of a major blizzard that closed the Interstates from Tuesday afternoon to Friday afternoon. I drove most of the night to get there. Trip is 560 miles. 400 of those miles would be considered adverse. It took me 7 additional hours to get there. I got to spend almost two days him before he passed. The hospital staff that started on Tuesday morning did not go home until Friday evening. Snowmobilers were fairing critical workers to their jobs in about half the state. My buddy the lineman worked 16-hour days from Tuesday thru Saturday. The power plants used their own equipment, city and the states equipment to get enough works to keep the power plants running. Yup I guess those folks don't know how to deal with adversity.

[Hannibal]

My commute was 85 miles one way for 30 years. I made decisions based on the needs of my family, not the needs of my employer. A good employee will never need to worry about earning a living. Don't attempt to lecture me. I've heard this crap before and I'm neither impressed nor influenced.

[megasupermagnum]

My commute was 85 miles one way for 30 years. I made decisions based on the needs of my family, not the needs of my employer. A good employee will never need to worry about earning a living. Don't attempt to lecture me. I've heard this crap before and I'm neither impressed nor influenced.

In Missouri you can probably get away with it when you get one big snow storm a year. You aren't getting away with that here. Good employer or not, if you stay home every time the roads ice over (which has been weekly for the past 5 months), you aren't going to be there long. There's a reason studded tires are legal and recommended.

[M-Tecs]

My commute was 85 miles one way for 30 years. I made decisions based on the needs of my family, not the needs of my employer. A good employee will never need to worry about earning a living. Don't attempt to lecture me. I've heard this crap before and I'm neither impressed nor influenced.

The one thing I admire most about the old school small town rural areas is community over self.

None of this changes, the fact that if your laws allow studded snow tires, they are a great benefit for icy conditions.

[Hannibal]

In Missouri you can probably get away with it when you get one big snow storm a year. You aren't getting away with that here. Good employer or not, if you stay home every time the roads ice over (which has been weekly for the past 5 months), you aren't going to be there long. There's a reason studded tires are legal and recommended.

It's not that I don't know how to drive in snow. It's that a crap load of other people don’t but they try to anyway. Anymore we get a lot more freezing rain than snow. Try to drive 85 miles on that one time. You won't try it again.

I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who never walked one step in your shoes still think they can tell you how you should be doing things.

Did it ever occur to you that just maybe you should be quiet?

[Hannibal]

Like learning how to and being equipped to deal with adverse driving conditions so you don't get fired?

Having the ability for feed/water your livestock is actually dealing with adversity. Same for people getting to work for critical jobs. Stocking your panty and hiding from adversity (icy roads) works for some. Not so much for others.

People tend to get upset when no one shows up to the power plants and the electricity goes out. Same for the lineman staying home during a storm. Same for people dying when the doctors and nurses stay home. Dealing with adversity apparently means different things to different people.

In rural areas it's common that people drive 50 or 60 miles one way to work. My cousin drives 82 miles one way to her nursing job. If she opted not to drive to work when the roads are icy she would be unemployed. Yes, she learned to deal with adverse conditions by learning how to drive on ice. For winter she has studded tires, winter survival clothes and a heater and a
survival food supply with TP. In the small town I grew up in most commute at least 15 miles one way. My HS best friend is a lineman. Staying home is not an option for him??? I do know lots of people that don't have a clue what real adversity is let alone how to deal with it.

Next week will be the one-year anniversary of my father going into a small-town hospital. It was the start of a major blizzard that closed the Interstates from Tuesday afternoon to Friday afternoon. I drove most of the night to get there. Trip is 560 miles. 400 of those miles would be considered adverse. It took me 7 additional hours to get there. I got to spend almost two days him before he passed. The hospital staff that started on Tuesday morning did not go home until Friday evening. Snowmobilers were fairing critical workers to their jobs in about half the state. My buddy the lineman worked 16-hour days from Tuesday thru Saturday. The power plants used their own equipment, city and the states equipment to get enough works to keep the power plants running. Yup I guess those folks don't know how to deal with adversity.

You are a legend in your own mind. Congratulations.

[megasupermagnum]

It's not that I don't know how to drive in snow. It's that a crap load of other people don’t but they try to anyway. Anymore we get a lot more freezing rain than snow. Try to drive 85 miles on that one time. You won't try it again.

I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who never walked one step in your shoes still think they can tell you how you should be doing things.

Did it ever occur to you that just maybe you should be quiet?

Yeah, the thought occurred. That's why I replied. Saying you should stay home every time it gets icy rather than getting studded tires is ridiculous.

[imashooter2]

My stud story:
They had just finished paving the street in front of my Father’s house a month before my brother brought home a positraction AMX he was thinking of buying. The car had studded snows on it. As he pulled away, he punched it hard. The twin trails of grooves were still in the street when we sold the place 6 years ago in my Father’s estate.

My chain story:
In the 80s I worked in a gas station a half a mile or so from an I95 exit. I was the only place within 15 miles of that exit that would fix a tire or change a belt after 4:00. One snowy night a cargo van limped in making a hell of a racket. A young lad had a chain break on 95 and instead of pulling over and taking the chain off, they drove it several miles to my station. At speed. The chain had beat a hole from floor board to floor board in the right rear wheel well and filled the cargo area with the ugliest slush/salt/mud/muck you ever did see. The chain was still in good shape other than the break and a monkey link sent him on his way.

Nothing really on topic with either story. I just like telling them. [smilie=l:

[M-Tecs]

It's not that I don't know how to drive in snow. It's that a crap load of other people don’t but they try to anyway. Anymore we get a lot more freezing rain than snow. Try to drive 85 miles on that one time. You won't try it again.

I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who never walked one step in your shoes still think they can tell you how you should be doing things.

Did it ever occur to you that just maybe you should be quiet?

You don't have to go out. Others do. I am not telling you that you must go out. That doesn't work of a lot of people and a lot of situations.


That's what big cabinets are for. Folks in remote regions have been doing it a long time. It's not that hard if you think ahead.

As a group people are stupid. Forecast calls for snow/ice.and.you can't find any toilet paper, milk, bread or eggs or gasoline anywhere. Never think a thing about what they'll do if the electricity is off for a week.

So the people that go to work to keep the power on are stupid for going out?



Did it ever occur to you that just maybe you should be quiet?

[Hannibal]

Yeah, the though occurred. That's why I replied. Saying you should stay home every time it gets icy rather than getting studded tires is ridiculous.

I worked in an industry that beat you over the head with safety every day. 'No accident is acceptable '. Don't hurt yourself, don't hurt anyone else, don't break anything, don't tear anything up.

Motor vehicle accidents are one of the leading causes of of premature death in the US. Add inclimate weather to that and look at it again.

And I was an electrician. Worked outside in every kind of weather. You can guess the Industry.

[Markopolo]

For me, studs are a must. We use them every year and have been for decades. And they do keep tread wear down some. This is a simple fact.

Marko

[M-Tecs]

I worked in an industry that beat you over the head with safety every day. 'No accident is acceptable '. Don't hurt yourself, don't hurt anyone else, don't break anything, don't tear anything up.

Motor vehicle accidents are one of the leading causes of of premature death in the US. Add inclimate weather to that and look at it again.

And I was an electrician. Worked outside in every kind of weather. You can guess the Industry.

So based on that you should be in favor of running studded tires in the winter (if legal) since it makes driving safer???? Have you ever driven with fresh studs?

[Hannibal]

I take a dim view of hypocrisy. If you can't see that yet then.......

[megasupermagnum]

I worked in an industry that beat you over the head with safety every day. 'No accident is acceptable '. Don't hurt yourself, don't hurt anyone else, don't break anything, don't tear anything up.

Motor vehicle accidents are one of the leading causes of of premature death in the US. Add inclimate weather to that and look at it again.

And I was an electrician. Worked outside in every kind of weather. You can guess the Industry.

Again, the choices are occasionally drive 25 mph to work for months of the year, buy studded tires, or stay home. If it only gets icy 3 times a year, then sure, use PTO and enjoy the day off. Doing as you say this year you would have been out of PTO by thanksgiving, and fired sometime just before Christmas. You have to adapt to the environment. Some places that means studs. Some places like mountains that means chains. You are required to have and use chains in the mountains if it snows, it's not optional. Much of the southern half the USA is fine with just rubber. Staying home is not an option, and it baffles me that you could even consider that.

[M-Tecs]

For me, studs are a must. We use them every year and have been for decades. And they do keep tread wear down some. This is a simple fact.

Marko

Just a guess but staying home is not a realistic option for you when the weather is bad?

[Hannibal]

Again, the choices are occasionally drive 25 mph to work for months of the year, buy studded tires, or stay home. If it only gets icy 3 times a year, then sure, use PTO and enjoy the day off. Doing as you say this year you would have been out of PTO by thanksgiving, and fired sometime just before Christmas. You have to adapt to the environment. Some places that means studs. Some places like mountains that means chains. You are required to have and use chains in the mountains if it snows, it's not optional. Much of the southern half the USA is fine with just rubber. Staying home is not an option, and it baffles me that you could even consider that.

Again, you've never walked a single step in my shoes yet it appears you believe you know exactly how I should live my life.

That is what baffles me.

[megasupermagnum]

Again, you've never walked a single step in my shoes yet it appears you believe you know exactly how I should live my life.

That is what baffles me.

Show me where I ever told you how you should do anything.

[M-Tecs]

Again, you've never walked a single step in my shoes yet it appears you believe you know exactly how I should live my life.

That is what baffles me.

Please point out where anyone stated you need to do something differently with your life??????

Several others stated what works for you is not workable for them. For them studded tires are a good option. Nothing more. You did state they were stupid and didn't know how to deal with adversity along with calling them hypocrites or legends in their own minds.

MSM's comments were spot on. Nothing in that or any other comment on this thread told you that you should do anything different in what works for you. Others stated what works for them and their situation. Nothing more.


Again, the choices are occasionally drive 25 mph to work for months of the year, buy studded tires, or stay home. If it only gets icy 3 times a year, then sure, use PTO and enjoy the day off. Doing as you say this year you would have been out of PTO by thanksgiving, and fired sometime just before Christmas. You have to adapt to the environment. Some places that means studs. Some places like mountains that means chains. You are required to have and use chains in the mountains if it snows, it's not optional. Much of the southern half the USA is fine with just rubber. Staying home is not an option, and it baffles me that you could even consider that.

On a side note, I had my first set of studded winter tires at 15 with my first car in 1975. In ND you could get your driver's license at 15. I purchased an Oldsmobile Delta 88 two door with a 455 in it the day after my 15th. That was the same day I started working at the local gas station. By far the most hated job was installing studs. Evenings and weekends it was the only station open. Driving the wrecker was also part of the job. That's where I learned the value of studded tires on a 4X4 chevy wrecker with a 454 with dual exhaust stacks. It was also the most fun unless you were called to a car accident. Chances are you knew the people and yes sometimes they were dead, dying and or trapped in in the wreckage.

[GregLaROCHE]

The Finns do make the best winter tires, by far.

That is really interesting to me. Do you know any brand names I can search for on the internet?
Thanks

[M-Tecs]

That is really interesting to me. Do you know any brand names I can search for on the internet?
Thanks

In the past I've purchased the really soft sticky Nokians for my wife's car. They are awesome but they were only a 20K life tire. Didn't install them until well into the winter and they came off as soon as the roads cleared in the spring. I would highly recommend them if you can deal with the limited life. They stuck to ice way better than I thought possible. We both have since retired to we don't have to go out unless we want. If she was still working she would be running them in the winter.

https://www.nokiantyres.com/

[GregLaROCHE]

I've used the really soft sticky Nokians. They are awesome but they were on a 20K tire. Didn't install them until well into the winter and they came off as soon as the roads cleared in the spring.

https://www.nokiantyres.com/

I checked the site, but it looks to me like they don’t sell studded tires to France. Surprising, because in the Alps, they have a lot of real winter weather.

[M-Tecs]

I checked the site, but it looks to me like they don’t sell studded tires to France. Surprising, because in the Alps, they have a lot of real winter weather.


I just did a quick search, and it does appear that France allows studded tires. It's odd that Nokian won't sell studded tires in France.

https://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/driving/driving-in-france/do-i-need-winter-tyres-or-snow-chains-when-driving-in-france/#:~:text=France%E2%80%99s%20Mountain%20Law%3A%20ru les%20and%20regulations%20The%20rules,with%20studd ed%20tyres%20do%20not%20need%20winter%20tyres.

If I could use studs in MN a good all season high milage tires with studs would be my winter driving choice.

One thing I forget to mention is studs do wear. Even worn studs work very well but if you want the best it's fresh studs. Earlier I misspoke that installing studs was the most hated job at the gas station. Installing studs was the seconded most hated. Removing studs that were worn flush to the tire was first. That was in the 70's so studs might be better today. Own my own vehicles the worn studs did everything I need them to do. In the 70's lots of folks in that area replaced their studs every winter.

[Hannibal]

I'd like to publicly apologize for my posts last night. I recently medically retired from a long time employer which was very difficult to work for and I put up with it for 3 decades. Got too old and too close to retirement to quit and the last 10 years in particular were particularly difficult.

Anyway, none of you had anything to do with that but I allowed my experience to cloud my viewpoint and I said some things that were unnecessary at best and for that I apologize.

[MaryB]

I just did a quick search, and it does appear that France allows studded tires. It's odd that Nokian won't sell studded tires in France.

https://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/driving/driving-in-france/do-i-need-winter-tyres-or-snow-chains-when-driving-in-france/#:~:text=France%E2%80%99s%20Mountain%20Law%3A%20ru les%20and%20regulations%20The%20rules,with%20studd ed%20tyres%20do%20not%20need%20winter%20tyres.

If I could use studs in MN a good all season high milage tires with studs would be my winter driving choice.

One thing I forget to mention is studs do wear. Even worn studs work very well but if you want the best it's fresh studs. Earlier I misspoke that installing studs was the most hated job at the gas station. Installing studs was the seconded most hated. Removing studs that were worn flush to the tire was first. That was in the 70's so studs might be better today. Own my own vehicles the worn studs did everything I need them to do. In the 70's lots of folks in that area replaced their studs every winter.

Dad did his own... errr us kids did them... he just took the tire off and put it back on... all of use were taught every part of car maintenance starting really young. When I started driving I had already rebuilt the 428 Ford we ran in the stock car at least 5 times.

Studs had been banned when I started driving but we still got the occasional used tire with them and drove them.

[MaryB]

After 47 years driving on ice I have no problems doing 45mph on glare ice while making sure I had 1/2 mile to stop or turn. My AWD was lighting up the dash with tire slippage and power being shifted from wheel to wheel. As mentioned, it is the other guy who is an idiot you have to watch for. Couple weeks ago I had to run to town for a doc appointment, roads were ice covered with 3" of slush on top of it. I was puttering along at 40 when a trucker decided to pass me doing 65+mph. As he pulled back into my lane the slush caught his steering tires and sucked him into the ditch that was level full with wet packed snow.

He stopped in about 40ish feet. Snow shredded the tractor fiberglass, chunks blasted thru the windshield hitting him in the face with glass. Trailer was totaled too. Driver reeked of pot and the cops forced him to go to the hospital to be drug tested. I offered to do first aid before cops got there and he refused despite the blood running off his face. After cops arrived I gave them my story, they took my phone number in case they needed more info and I went on my way.

The trucker was from GA, and NOT used to driving in those kind of conditions.

I just run a good all season radial... tires on my SUV are speed rated to 130+mph(and apparently it WILL go that fast!) so they are not cheap. I should get 1 more year out of them then need to replace them.

[GregLaROCHE]

I just did a quick search, and it does appear that France allows studded tires. It's odd that Nokian won't sell studded tires in France.

https://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/driving/driving-in-france/do-i-need-winter-tyres-or-snow-chains-when-driving-in-france/#:~:text=France%E2%80%99s%20Mountain%20Law%3A%20ru les%20and%20regulations%20The%20rules,with%20studd ed%20tyres%20do%20not%20need%20winter%20tyres.

If I could use studs in MN a good all season high milage tires with studs would be my winter driving choice.

One thing I forget to mention is studs do wear. Even worn studs work very well but if you want the best it's fresh studs. Earlier I misspoke that installing studs was the most hated job at the gas station. Installing studs was the seconded most hated. Removing studs that were worn flush to the tire was first. That was in the 70's so studs might be better today. Own my own vehicles the worn studs did everything I need them to do. In the 70's lots of folks in that area replaced their studs every winter.

Yes studs are legal in France, at least where I live. It’s just that when I searched the website of e Finnish tire maker, they weren’t offering tires with studs. There is probably not much demand, therefore it isn’t cost effective to stock them here. I’ve never seen or heard of anyone having them around here.

I agree that new studs are better than used, as well as tires. l'm planning to put the ones that were on the front, on the back when the season arrives. I will get new ones for the front. Im glad I'm at a point in life, that I can good tires as well as a good battery.

[M-Tecs]

I'd like to publicly apologize for my posts last night. I recently medically retired from a long time employer which was very difficult to work for and I put up with it for 3 decades. Got too old and too close to retirement to quit and the last 10 years in particular were particularly difficult.

Anyway, none of you had anything to do with that but I allowed my experience to cloud my viewpoint and I said some things that were unnecessary at best and for that I apologize.

No problem we all have bad days. Hopefully better days are ahead for all of us.

[Hannibal]

No problem we all have bad days. Hopefully better days are ahead for all of us.

Agreed. Thank you for understanding. I appreciate it.

[elmacgyver0]

I used to drive in about anything.
I don't do that anymore, I told my employer if it is snowing or lousy weather, I'm staying home.
He doesn't have a problem with that as he practically begged me to work part time.
Works well for me and works well for him.
It is nice to be appreciated.
I also appreciate him.

[rbuck351]

I lived in Alaska for 32 years,6 of those were in Nome. Staying home during bad weather was not an option if I wanted a pay check. Studs are the best option for slick roads. Chains are great if you like a teeth jarring ride at 25mph or faster and don't mind getting out in nasty weather to either install or remove them.

[Idaho45guy]

I'd like to publicly apologize for my posts last night. I recently medically retired from a long time employer which was very difficult to work for and I put up with it for 3 decades. Got too old and too close to retirement to quit and the last 10 years in particular were particularly difficult.

Anyway, none of you had anything to do with that but I allowed my experience to cloud my viewpoint and I said some things that were unnecessary at best and for that I apologize.

Been there myself. Kudos to you for having the guts to realize it and man up. May we all have your insight and courage.:drinks:

[Idaho45guy]

My girlfriend and I both drive Toyota 4Runners. She runs crappy street tires in the Spring, Summer, and Fall, then installs her decent studded snow tires for the winter, and removes them before April 1st, when Washington state declares studded tires illegal.

I run all-terrain tires that have the 3-peak snowflake rating, which means they are approved as winter tires. I have ran the same set of tires for 2.5 years and 26k miles and have used 3/32nds of an inch of tread out of 18/32nds of an inch of tread. They still look like new and grip amazingly well on snow and ice.

Plus, they are awesome off-road in dirt, mud, rocks, and sand. Absolutely the best tires I have ever run on a pickup or SUV.

But, my girlfriend's studded snow tires are better on packed snow and ice.

However, she had booked plane tickets from Seattle to New Orleans for her and her daughter for a week vacation last week. She was planning on driving her vehicle the 300 miles from Spokane to Seattle to save a few hundred bucks in air fares.

No problem until she had to remove her studded tires by April 1st due to Washington law. Then a massive storm hit the West side and caused the DOT to stipulate traction tires required for the pass to get to Seattle.

My tires, which I run all year, met the DOT requirements. So, I ended up driving her and her daughter to Seattle so she could get over the mountain pass.

Unfortunately, now I have to drive back to Seattle tomorrow to pick them up...

I have grown up in the Northwest where we have all sorts of nasty winter weather, and studs are quite common out here. I have never ran them as I have always been too poor to afford two sets of tires for my vehicle.

When I lived in Iowa, I experienced freezing rain for the first time and was amazed at how awful it was. I went to the local tire shop to ask about studs or snow tires, and they said that they didn't sell them since all-season tires were nearly as good. Morons.

[MaryB]

I'd like to publicly apologize for my posts last night. I recently medically retired from a long time employer which was very difficult to work for and I put up with it for 3 decades. Got too old and too close to retirement to quit and the last 10 years in particular were particularly difficult.

Anyway, none of you had anything to do with that but I allowed my experience to cloud my viewpoint and I said some things that were unnecessary at best and for that I apologize.

No problem. Been there and the sudden change can play havoc with the mind for awhile. Until I found out I am busier retired than when I was working LOL

[jonp]

That is really interesting to me. Do you know any brand names I can search for on the internet?
Thanks

https://www.uniroyal.ca/products/tiger-paw-ice-snow-3

[725]

Back in the late '60's & '70's, I put studded snows on my front wheels and regular snows on my rears. Found it better to steer & stop than go. Even with massive snows, I never really had a problem with that old Volkswagen. (driving that is, the heater was worthless)

[GregLaROCHE]

https://www.uniroyal.ca/products/tiger-paw-ice-snow-3

I was looking for the Finnish ones for sale in France. They don’t seem to be offering them for sale here. I can buy studded tires here on the internet.

[M-Tecs]

I was looking for the Finnish ones for sale in France. They don’t seem to be offering them for sale here. I can buy studded tires here on the internet.

Nokian sells tires in France

Here is their dealer loacator.

https://www.nokiantyres.com/where-to-buy/locator/

[jonp]

I was looking for the Finnish ones for sale in France. They don’t seem to be offering them for sale here. I can buy studded tires here on the internet.

Oh, ok. I put up those tires in Post #9 but you didn't comment so didn't think that was what you were looking for.

[GregLaROCHE]

Nokian sells tires in France

Here is their dealer loacator.

https://www.nokiantyres.com/where-to-buy/locator/

Ok. I found a dealer not too far from me, but do they have studded tires available? I’ll give them a call next week. I found a French site for Finnish tires but they only had normal snow tires. No studded. I remember when snow tires came ready for studs and they would install them when you bought the tires. Do they still do that?

[M-Tecs]

https://www.nokiantyres.com/tyres/suv-4x4-tyres/studded-tires/

[SeabeeMan]

I've only had one pair of studded tires many years ago, but I prefer non-studded, winter compound tires over studs. I felt like they performed better in any amount of snow and just as well on ice, assuming the speeds were low. I've ran several sets of Pirelli Ice/Snow Scorpions on our small SUV and van over the years, and have Discoverer Snow Claws on my expedition and plow truck now. Unless we are talking about the ice storm that turns the roads into a skating rink, they perform wonderfully. In conditions like that, powerlines and downed trees become as much an issue as road conditions.

[waksupi]

Ok. I found a dealer not too far from me, but do they have studded tires available? I’ll give them a call next week. I found a French site for Finnish tires but they only had normal snow tires. No studded. I remember when snow tires came ready for studs and they would install them when you bought the tires. Do they still do that?

Do it yourself!
https://www.amazon.com/BOXOB-Carbide-Installation-Motorcycle-Accessories/dp/B0BHSGBLFK/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=tire+studs&qid=1681054904&sr=8-4

[MaryB]

Back in the late '60's & '70's, I put studded snows on my front wheels and regular snows on my rears. Found it better to steer & stop than go. Even with massive snows, I never really had a problem with that old Volkswagen. (driving that is, the heater was worthless)

Friend had a VW... I remember a road trip 45 miles one way to go see a band... when it was -20f. We FROZE. Only real heat was from cramming 5 people in a VW bug...

[GregLaROCHE]

Do it yourself!
https://www.amazon.com/BOXOB-Carbide-Installation-Motorcycle-Accessories/dp/B0BHSGBLFK/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=tire+studs&qid=1681054904&sr=8-4
That’s interesting. I wonder if they hold up as well as factory installed.

[jonp]

IDK but they are cheap enough to buy a couple of kits and just replace the ones that go missing.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Regarding the screw in ones, I would think they would go missing INSIDE the tire as easily as outside. I'd trust the old flat bottom studs rather than screwing sharp things into my tires

[MaryB]

Friend did ice racing, he would take short sheet metal screws with a hex head and stud his racing tires... he ran a pad between the tire and tube so no punctures. Little front wheel drive cars zipping around a track on a frozen pond... until the DNR declared it an illegal use because of 1 crash that leaked a quart of oil! That we cleaned up/chipped up the stained ice and hauled it off. Dang farmer leaked more oil in from his tractors in the field next to it.

[anothernewb]

They don't allow studded tires in MN. (legally) but ND does. Been tempted more than once to license the truck in ND so I can run studded. they work.

Simply put there's no substitute for purpose defined equipment - of any kind. Everything else is a compromise. No all season or all weather tire will work as good as ones designed for each condition. Not that they are bad, just not as good.

I've become a 2 season tire fan. dedicated summer and winter. ran them for 13 years now. In the long run - there really is zero cost difference between running all seasons and separate sets. Yeah, you buy 2 sets. But you are driving only half as long on each one. (in may case it's a lot closer to 1/4 on the summer ones since I ride the ultra as much as possible in summer) There really is only one downside - you gotta store the extra stuff. You are probably more at risk of tire rot if you drive low mileage. But that is easily mitigated with how you store and maintain your tires.

[Hannibal]

If I really needed to get somewhere and didn't have chains I'd be tempted to just run some short self-tapping screws into the lugs on a set of standard snow tires.
Normal studs have a hardened tip but those don't last long anyway. Not recommending this, it would have to be an emergency situation for me to mess with it. Hopefully I'll never need to get out that bad.

You'd better not leave something like that in long or you'll have no end of flat tires too.

[megasupermagnum]

They don't allow studded tires in MN. (legally) but ND does. Been tempted more than once to license the truck in ND so I can run studded. they work.

Simply put there's no substitute for purpose defined equipment - of any kind. Everything else is a compromise. No all season or all weather tire will work as good as ones designed for each condition. Not that they are bad, just not as good.

I've become a 2 season tire fan. dedicated summer and winter. ran them for 13 years now. In the long run - there really is zero cost difference between running all seasons and separate sets. Yeah, you buy 2 sets. But you are driving only half as long on each one. (in may case it's a lot closer to 1/4 on the summer ones since I ride the ultra as much as possible in summer) There really is only one downside - you gotta store the extra stuff. You are probably more at risk of tire rot if you drive low mileage. But that is easily mitigated with how you store and maintain your tires.

While MN does allow out of state vehicles to have studs, it's only for occasional use (listed as less than 30 days in 6 months). The only exceptions I see is if you are a Non-resident, and work or go to school in MN. The only exception I see for MN residents is for rural mail carriers, and you apply for a permit. One of the good things about MN though is the overbloated tax system plows and salts the roads like crazy. The dirt roads are still bad, but it is what it is.

[anothernewb]

The only exceptions I see is if you are a Non-resident, and work or go to school in MN.

that could be my situation. I'm only 25 miles from the western border. close enough that the commute costs are a toss up between the savings in taxes and insurance. If they ever settle on a remote/in office decision. it might just become completely worth it. crap road or not.

[MaryB]

While MN does allow out of state vehicles to have studs, it's only for occasional use (listed as less than 30 days in 6 months). The only exceptions I see is if you are a Non-resident, and work or go to school in MN. The only exception I see for MN residents is for rural mail carriers, and you apply for a permit. One of the good things about MN though is the overbloated tax system plows and salts the roads like crazy. The dirt roads are still bad, but it is what it is.


They plow and salt the metro roads... out here in nowhere land they plow but salt? What's that?

[GregLaROCHE]

IDK but they are cheap enough to buy a couple of kits and just replace the ones that go missing.

It would be interesting if you were able to screw them back out the time of year they were illegal.

[GregLaROCHE]

They plow and salt the metro roads... out here in nowhere land they plow but salt? What's that?

In interior Alaska, the winter temperatures are too cold for salt to melt snow and ice. In the cities they use pea gravel. It’s better than nothing.

[megasupermagnum]

They plow and salt the metro roads... out here in nowhere land they plow but salt? What's that?

Well I don't think they ever salt dirt roads, but every MN tar road is bright white all winter. It looks like they have cut way back on salt usage in the last 3 years due to cost and environmental concerns, so maybe things have changed since I moved. My truck is still a testament to rural MN's salt in the past.

[SeabeeMan]

Well I don't think they ever salt dirt roads, but every MN tar road is bright white all winter. It looks like they have cut way back on salt usage in the last 3 years due to cost and environmental concerns, so maybe things have changed since I moved. My truck is still a testament to rural MN's salt in the past.

Same in WI. Once you leave a county highway you're on packed snow/ice in most places.

[georgerkahn]

It’s been a long time since I had studded tires, but last year I decided to get some because, even though we don’t get much snow, we can have a lot of icy situations. We just changed them to summer tires and I noticed that they didn’t seem to have worn as much as the all terrain tires we normally use. The small utility van that my wife uses to go to markets to sell our cheese, does the same route and distance each year. Is it possible that studs help keeping the wear down?
Thanks

I, too, had been a fancier/user of studded tires -- but the government got in the way. Ontario (Canada) used to allow them from September through April, but now they are only permitted for Northern regions. The fines for having them, from what I hear, are quite ridiculous, too! Printed is,
"Studded tires were banned in Ontario in 1972. The government lifted part of the ban in 2005 to allow those with a northern address in Ontario to keep using studded tires in the winter. In Algoma, Cochrane, Kenora, Manitoulin, Nipissing, Parry Sound, Rainy River, Sudbury, Thunder Bay, and Temiskaming Territorial Districts, drivers can use studded tires between September 1st and May 31st for vehicles registered in these areas."
Tires need have the "M + S" label, and/or a neato icon which likes like a three-peaked mountain with a snow-flake image in its centre to be "legal" as mandated "winter tires"... For me? I've gone the Blizzak route, complemented with four 25-pound, each, weight-lifter weights (used to be my son's) in the back of my Tacoma. These take real little space and provide added weight/traction/stability -- 'specially on roads (??) like the 401... South of that silly double-yellow line on maps (New York State, USA) I believe studs are legal from Mid October thru the end of April, but... imho... not worth the hassle change -- so, again, I use the Blizzaks.
However, from my recollection of using studded tires in winter, I do believe you are correct vis less wear than their non-studded counterparts.
geo

[BD]

I'm a firm believer in studded snow tires for serious work in the snow. I ran Zamboni Takeoffs with the big 1/4" studs on my plow rigs in northern Maine for many years. Many times with Canadian peg chains on all four as well for the big storms. This worked until solid front axles went away around the turn of this century. I learned the hard way that the magnesium front diffs with unsupported axles can't handle the high torques that result from chains on the front. I have a good story about snow in the south of France as well. In the late '80s I was at my in-laws in Marseille when they got about two inches of snow. the folks there just stopped driving and left their vehicles in place on the roads until it melted. We went back to the family place in Salernes which had a steep switchback driveway and had to walk in. I went to the local autoparts with my brother in law, (who had spent a couple years in Maine), to buy a set of chains. Not only did they not have any tire chains, we could not even convince the guy at the counter that they even existed. He thought we were making them up.

[BD]

In Maine they salt the dirt roads in the summer. It keeps the dust down. Vehicles rust out fast around here.

[GregLaROCHE]

In Southern France, as well any place that doesn’t normally get snow, the people do know what to do. It’s probably better if they keep their vehicles parked, because not understanding how to drive in snow and ice makes problems for others on the road.

Even before we moved to a higher latitude, I always had snow tires in the winter. Once I was driving in a snow storm on the Autoroute. All the traffic was going at a crawl in the two right lanes. I went flying by them in the left lane with fresh snow on it.

I once watched a video where they compared a four wheel dive car with highway tires to a two wheel drive with snow tires. The test was to drive up a ski slope. The two wheel drive made it more than twice as far as the four wheel drive.