Increase hardness of pure lead.

[JBJR]

I currently cast pure lead for shooting black powder muzzleloaders. Since reloading supplies for standard ammo reloading have increased substantially, in an effort to save some money, I want to cast my own bullets and want to learn what to add to my pot to obtain suitable hardness for use in standard hand guns. Any suggestions ?

[Hannibal]

I currently cast pure lead for shooting black powder muzzleloaders. Since reloading supplies for standard ammo reloading have increased substantially, in an effort to save some money, I want to cast my own bullets and want to learn what to add to my pot to obtain suitable hardness for use in standard hand guns. Any suggestions ?

I'd say if you want to know for certain what you're dealing with ordering from Rotometals is the easiest option by far. If you aren't particular range lead ingots show up on swappin' and sellin' fairly regularly but you've a post count and time restriction to meet before you can go there.

[megasupermagnum]

The simplest is 1 pound of tin per 20 pounds of lead, AKA 20:1 alloy. Works in pretty much anything. You can find tin in various sources. Some melt down pewter stuff they scrounge. Some find plumbers solder. You can even buy tin ingots and nuggets to add.

Pure lead is not that easy to scrounge anymore. Unless you have a ton, most people use either range scrap, clip on wheel weights, or some other scrap like that which works fine as-is. It can be bought on this forum, which is about the best price you will find.

[JBJR]

Thanks Hannibal, i've seen the rotometals website, and saw the 5lb bar that is 70% lead 30% antimony/tin , what they couldn't advise was should that be used by itself or added to a lee pot with 10 to 15 lbs of pure lead? I already have plenty of pure lead.

[Recycled bullet]

If you want immediate pretty good results I would strongly recommend Lyman number 2 alloy and tumble applying and toaster oven baking to cure (powder coating the bullets) with ultra durable clear. You can make the alloy yourself for significant cost savings.

How much pistol bullet alloy are you trying to make?

[Cast10]

I use SOWW’s (can get them locally) + Hardball (rotometals) = to be approx. 11.3 BHN.

I have shot it to 1600fps and most recently 1750 fps with zero leading (powder coated).

Take a look at the lead calculator to help you arrive at what you want.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

[JBJR]

I have plenty of pure lead that I got from a scrap yard. Thanks for the formula.

[megasupermagnum]

Thanks Hannibal, i've seen the rotometals website, and saw the 5lb bar that is 70% lead 30% antimony/tin , what they couldn't advise was should that be used by itself or added to a lee pot with 10 to 15 lbs of pure lead? I already have plenty of pure lead.

That would not be a good bullet alloy. You can get away with a wide range, but high antimony alone is poor. For binary alloys you are probably going to want to use either 25:1, 20:1 or 16:1 lead and tin. For a ternary alloy things are a little more complex, but they range from soft scrap 98/.25/1.75 lead/tin/antimony up to linotype 84/4/12 lead/tin/antimony. Ideally you want your tin and antimony balanced. Clip on wheel weights plus 2% tin is decent. COWW can vary, but they are generally considered 96.5/.5/3, and when you add 2% tin you end up with roughly a 95/2.5/2.5 alloy, or at least close enough for government work. That's about an "ideal" bullet alloy for general use. A lot of guys cut that 50% with pure lead for hunting. Linotype used to be very common, but it's hardly ever used straight anymore. It's ok cast alone, not fantastic. It's a good example of hardness without toughness.

[JBJR]

just enough for my personal use. Since I retired I prob. shoot a couple hundred rounds a week.

[JBJR]

Thanks ! I'll probably try adding 1lb or so of tin to the lead in my 20lb. Lee pot. This is just for target practice......

[megasupermagnum]

Thanks ! I'll probably try adding 1lb or so of tin to the lead in my 20lb. Lee pot. This is just for target practice......

You can probably only get about 15-16 pounds of metal in the pot, or at least that's all I get safely. Adding a pound of tin would get you closer to a 16:1 alloy, which there is nothing wrong with. If at all possible, I would pour your pot into ingot molds, even a muffin pan works. You can mix in your pot, but it's usually easier to do elsewhere, such as a larger metal pot over a propane stove so you can do 50 pounds or more at a time and get a consistent alloy.

[BNE]

JBJR
Welcome to the fun or madness - you decide. There are TONS of posts answering what you are asking. And based on your questions - you are a newbie. No offense - We all were. Spend some time reading those posts and you will learn how to mix almost any mix you want and you will also know what you want! There is a search feature on the right side of the page that is super helpful answering the questions you are asking.

God luck, this stuff is fun and this forum will be very useful for you.

[Forrest r]

Another option is to buy something like this (not affiliated in any way)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/195682181318?hash=item2d8f9120c6:g:kn4AAOSwZdVjNnd 1&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4F4smGA9T6nDZ%2FD6HzaTSMQtw5m Ihn7BTt0VFFzUpbyTHPwqipiVfI%2B%2FeAnnFDNVf2bhaHfyV 4sFAaaXeSlynluflcppMGf5vyqJCY3n7RIvbKXCBKQYtvqU475 hdzbxSjUqac7SuyJF7f6HNYytAtpCg1xQi0Y2lWfewTQSHwsgK 3AQ96S9bKEUe4kBiGQ9GRq89IpFNXuewWfBoROHGdoYn0kfrxb C4sK1UF%2Bm%2BhGRDpE9UdyhRTkoENLPHcdi9skKSput8xA3s m74fE9hyIxvqZdGPsrPi0rYaVXSaFZg%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5Kuo_ vkYQ

A little goes a long way with pure lead being +/- 9% tin and 19% antimony.

FWIW:
most of my casting/shooting needs are done with nothing more than range scrap. The range scrap is 8/9bhn when air cooled and 12/13bhn when water dropped. I use the 8/9bhn alloy for loads in any loafs up to 25,000psi and the water dropped in loads up to 35,000psi. The only time I use a 14/15bhn alloy (4.5/4.5/91) is when casting rifle bullets intended on being pushed over 2400fps/35,000psi+.

[Sasquatch-1]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you can respond to wanted to sell ads in S&S section with a low count. You cannot post a wanted to sell or trade.

If you had more post, you could attempt to trade the soft for a harder alloy.

[Willie T]

You need tin and a scale. Solder and pewter are the two sources of tin I utilize. A scale that will weigh 0-20 pounds will do. If you don’t have the Lyman cast bullet handbook get it. It will give you ratios to mix useful alloys and also contains published load data for your cast bullets. Cast Data is NOT interchangeable with jacketed data. Cast bullets make more pressure than jacketed. Hence cast loads have smaller powder charges. Welcome to the addiction. Casting is a great hobby.
Willie

[Rickf1985]

Another option is to buy something like this (not affiliated in any way)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/195682181318?hash=item2d8f9120c6:g:kn4AAOSwZdVjNnd 1&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4F4smGA9T6nDZ%2FD6HzaTSMQtw5m Ihn7BTt0VFFzUpbyTHPwqipiVfI%2B%2FeAnnFDNVf2bhaHfyV 4sFAaaXeSlynluflcppMGf5vyqJCY3n7RIvbKXCBKQYtvqU475 hdzbxSjUqac7SuyJF7f6HNYytAtpCg1xQi0Y2lWfewTQSHwsgK 3AQ96S9bKEUe4kBiGQ9GRq89IpFNXuewWfBoROHGdoYn0kfrxb C4sK1UF%2Bm%2BhGRDpE9UdyhRTkoENLPHcdi9skKSput8xA3s m74fE9hyIxvqZdGPsrPi0rYaVXSaFZg%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5Kuo_ vkYQ

A little goes a long way with pure lead being +/- 9% tin and 19% antimony.

FWIW:
most of my casting/shooting needs are done with nothing more than range scrap. The range scrap is 8/9bhn when air cooled and 12/13bhn when water dropped. I use the 8/9bhn alloy for loads in any loafs up to 25,000psi and the water dropped in loads up to 35,000psi. The only time I use a 14/15bhn alloy (4.5/4.5/91) is when casting rifle bullets intended on being pushed over 2400fps/35,000psi+.

That is advertised as linotype but it is actually Monotype. Completely different composition. It will work but it has a much higher SB content and you do not want to get too high on the antimony without having the tin to match. This is where the Alloy calculator comes in handy but be aware that the calculator shows pure lead as 5 BHN but it calculates it at 8 BHN!!! So your figures will not be accurate when working with pure lead and the calculator.

[15meter]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?110213-From-Ingot-to-Target-A-Cast-Bullet-Guide-for-Handgunners


This will probably answer the majority of your questions.

Also, Lyman's book on casting and loading #3. It's also available as a free download. In addition to the how-to aspect, it has a bunch of cast boolit load data.

Good luck

And where are you located? There may be some one nearby that can help get you started.

[Forrest r]

That is advertised as linotype but it is actually Monotype. Completely different composition. It will work but it has a much higher SB content and you do not want to get too high on the antimony without having the tin to match. This is where the Alloy calculator comes in handy but be aware that the calculator shows pure lead as 5 BHN but it calculates it at 8 BHN!!! So your figures will not be accurate when working with pure lead and the calculator.

Yup you're absolutely correct. Hense the 9%/19% and the little goes a long way.

Linotype is 4%/12%

Typically the monotype sells for more $$$. $2.50 a # for monotype isn't bad.

The only time I match tin/antimony in equal parts is when I'm pushing long bodied (1"+) skinny rifle bullets (30cal/.310") 2400fps+ using 35,000psi+ loads. Most of my 308w cast bullet loads are in the 2600fps+ range.

100% of my pistol & revolver loads are cast with alloys that have a +/- 1 part tin to 6 parts antimony.

[William Yanda]

I currently cast pure lead for shooting black powder muzzleloaders. Since reloading supplies for standard ammo reloading have increased substantially, in an effort to save some money, I want to cast my own bullets and want to learn what to add to my pot to obtain suitable hardness for use in standard hand guns. Any suggestions ?

I learned a lot by reading the LASC articles about alloys. Hardness is different than toughness.

[schutzen-jager]

I currently cast pure lead for shooting black powder muzzleloaders. Since reloading supplies for standard ammo reloading have increased substantially, in an effort to save some money, I want to cast my own bullets and want to learn what to add to my pot to obtain suitable hardness for use in standard hand guns. Any suggestions ?

what are you intending to load, rifle, pistol, light, or heavy loads ? -

[popper]

Lead/tin may work for revolver, I just shoot semis and pure/2-3% Sb works fine, no tin. 40sw & 9mm. I use pure with roto superhard for Sb. Get the alloy calc for weights required.

[Rich/WIS]

My experience has been that for standard handgun loads an alloy with 1-2% tin and 3-5% antimony will produce bullets hard enough and cast easily. Even range lead which runs about 2% antimony and negligible tin, or straight wheel weight which are about 3% antimony and negligible tin have been used for years by members here with satisfactory results. As a hardening agent antimony is far better than tin, but a small percentage of tin improves toughness and castability.