Better lead than this?

[Photog]

SO I love scrounging and saving money and up-cycling and re-using and even finding new uses for others' scraps.
But i got tired of mixing lead and trying to re-create the right alloy from "pure" lead and blocks of high antimony and tin solder.
I was spending more time than I wanted and not getting the results on target that I wanted.
That changed when I got my first order from GTBullets.com of 96-2-2 and 94-3-3 lead.
They claim its what they use to cast their boolits with. Works well for me, and its just as/more economical when you factor in that Rotometals doesn't put any tin in their lower cost alloys, so you are not buying tin which is pricey. They just work. Its kinda like accepting that you COULD get cheaper stuff, but accepting variable performance as a result. Definitely not knocking the folks that like to alloy their own and find cheap sources of lead out there, I'm just not interested in spending hat time to do it.
That said, does someone out there have a better performing alloy, its gotta have tin and antimony in it, that they like? Rotometals has the Hardball at $3.40/lb (with shipping), GT Bullets has those mentioned above at $2.90 and $3.35/lb (sans shipping).

[Winger Ed.]

Lyman #2 is sort of the benchmark and has proven itself to be good in most applications.

[kevin c]

I have cast about 15000 pistol bullets in the past month to feed my action pistol habit, all of 95-3-2 alloy I make in 240-250# batches from isotope container scrap and pewter I get analyzed for exact composition, plus a bit of RotoMetals Superhard as needed to bring up the antimony. This is similar to COWW plus tin that is very versatile as a casting alloy. My cost, excluding gear and my time but including propane cost, is 61¢ a pound.

Knowing the exact composition of my stock metals and using a bit of high school algebra, I can duplicate just about any common casting alloy except ones needing arsenic for heat treatment. It is definitely a significant investment in time and effort though, and as I get older the time and effort seem to grow to produce the same amount of alloy or bullets, but it’s still satisfying to look at a stack of ingots or a pile of bullets, thinking, “I made that”.

[kentfielddude]

where did you get your isotope container scrap from?

[BNE]

For sub sonic loads, I have “settled” on 96-2-2. I know I could push that faster, I just have not found out how much faster. I still alloy my own mixes. That’s just the fun part for me.

[deltaenterprizes]

I have been using WW metal with a little bit of tin since I started casting in 1983!
Unless you are shooting precision matches a minor difference in the alloy will not make much difference in the performance of the boolit.
I had a gentleman test my boolits with a Randsom Rest when I was doing commercial casting using 8 two cavity molds , 16 different cavities and they still held the X-ring at 25 yards!
50/50 lead/Linotype will give you 92/6/2 alloy and can be sourced in the Swappin & Selling section for good prices .

[Soundguy]

For handgun I use pretty much range lead around 10 -11 bhn. it is usually lead with a little antimony.. and I may or may not sweeten with tin for faster handgun to get it to 12ish. For anything faster.. I start with lyman #2 at the 15/16 area.. and go up from there as speed or pressure dictates.

[centershot]

50/50 lead/Linotype will give you 96/2/2 alloy and can be sourced in the Swappin & Selling section for good prices .

No, Lino is 84-12-4. When mixed 50/50 with pure lead it yields an alloy of 92-6-2. Cut it again, 50/50, and you have 96-3-1 which is essentially COWW alloy. Mix in 2% tin and you're pretty close to 94-3-3. I've been using this for several years now in pistol and rifle loads up to 2000 fps and am very satisfied with it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SO I love scrounging and saving money and up-cycling and re-using and even finding new uses for others' scraps.
But i got tired of mixing lead and trying to re-create the right alloy from "pure" lead and blocks of high antimony and tin solder.
I was spending more time than I wanted and not getting the results on target that I wanted.
That changed when I got my first order from GTBullets.com of 96-2-2 and 94-3-3 lead.
They claim its what they use to cast their boolits with. Works well for me, and its just as/more economical when you factor in that Rotometals doesn't put any tin in their lower cost alloys, so you are not buying tin which is pricey. They just work. Its kinda like accepting that you COULD get cheaper stuff, but accepting variable performance as a result. Definitely not knocking the folks that like to alloy their own and find cheap sources of lead out there, I'm just not interested in spending hat time to do it.
That said, does someone out there have a better performing alloy, its gotta have tin and antimony in it, that they like? Rotometals has the Hardball at $3.40/lb (with shipping), GT Bullets has those mentioned above at $2.90 and $3.35/lb (sans shipping).
You need to define that question some more.
shooting-accuracy?
shooting-lead fouling?
Casting-imperfections?

The first two issues are likely not alloy.
As to imperfection, I've cast with WW, range scrap, and other unknown alloys with success. When I've had problems, the solution is usually in my techniques and/or temperatures...and lastly, dirty alloy that just needed to be fluxed better.

[Photog]

You need to define that question some more.
shooting-accuracy?
shooting-lead fouling?
Casting-imperfections?

Its combination of them, mold fill out, accuracy and consistency , low barrel leading have made me want to continue to buy pre-made alloy. Not to mention minimal fluxing needed, and low waste made it appealing. My own alloys don't come out great; i get variable casting imperfections, and it ONE MORE thing that I have to consider and do, when buying alloy isn't much more than buying the raw materials.

Rotometals has #2 90-5-5, on sale right now at $3.20/lbs. I haven't tried that yet. Sounds like most folks don't buy pre-mix alloy?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You need to define that question some more.
shooting-accuracy?
shooting-lead fouling?
Casting-imperfections?

Its combination of them, mold fill out, accuracy and consistency , low barrel leading have made me want to continue to buy pre-made alloy. Not to mention minimal fluxing needed, and low waste made it appealing. My own alloys don't come out great; i get variable casting imperfections, and it ONE MORE thing that I have to consider and do, when buying alloy isn't much more than buying the raw materials.

Rotometals has #2 90-5-5, on sale right now at $3.20/lbs. I haven't tried that yet. Sounds like most folks don't buy pre-mix alloy?

OK, I now understand you better.
I'd suggest getting the 94-3-3 from GTBullets.
94-3-3 is my preferred alloy for Rifle and Mag pistol.
BUT, since the 90-5-5 from Roto is on sale, maybe that's the way to go. IMHO, those two alloys function identical in regards to boolit alloy. The way Lead-tin-antimony alloys work, it's better to have balanced amounts of tin-antimony.
Good Luck

[dverna]

I do not hunt with cast bullets, so expansion is not a criteria for me. I want something easy to cast with that minimizes reloading challenges with higher pressure rounds. Many commercial casters use 92-6-2. It is easy to source and not that expensive if you place any value on your time.

It works from 650 fps “mouse fart” loads to maximum pressure 9mm. I am probably wasting money using it for light loads, but I can live with it.

[deltaenterprizes]

No, Lino is 84-12-4. When mixed 50/50 with pure lead it yields an alloy of 92-6-2. Cut it again, 50/50, and you have 96-3-1 which is essentially COWW alloy. Mix in 2% tin and you're pretty close to 94-3-3. I've been using this for several years now in pistol and rifle loads up to 2000 fps and am very satisfied with it.

You are correct sir, I edited my post!

[Gobeyond]

94-3-3 sounds good to me. But how would you arrive there with Lino type and range scrap and 50-50 solder. Does someone have a link to learn the math of it? It’s an end product and the pencils have stated it. With different ingredients I have to go a different way.

[dtknowles]

94-3-3 sounds good to me. But how would you arrive there with Lino type and range scrap and 50-50 solder. Does someone have a link to learn the math of it? It’s an end product and the pencils have stated it. With different ingredients I have to go a different way.

There is a spreadsheet somewhere but the math is high school algebra.

You do have to know what is the composition of the ingredients.

To get 94-3-3 with Lino, range scrap and 50-50 solder, Start with 6 pounds of range scrap and lets call that pure even though it might have a little antimony and if you know it has a bunch then use a little more solder than I call for, add 2 pounds of lino (84-12-4) is 1.68 pounds lead, .24 pounds antimony and .08 pounds of tin. 96-3-3 has equal antimony and tin so you got to up the tin with 50-50 solder to equalize the tin you add .32 pounds (.16 pounds tin) your total is now 8.32 pounds, 7.84 pounds lead, .24 pounds antimony and .24 pounds tin. 7.84/8.32=.942 lead, .24/8.16=.0294 antimony and same for tin. Very close to 94-3-3. I admit I got this by trial and error. It would have taken me longer to write the equations. Use 8 pounds of range scrap instead of 6 and you are pretty close to 96-2-2.


easy one is pure (range scrap) and solder. a pound of 50/50 solder is a half pound of tin and a half pound of lead. 10 pounds of pure and 1 pound of 50/50 solder is 10.5 pounds of lead and .5 pounds of tin that is 21 to 1 or very close to 20 to 1 which is a pretty common alloy for old timers, black powder or non-magnum revolvers.

We often consider COWW to be 96-3-1 so 10 pounds would be 9.6 lead, .3 Antimony and .1 tin. If you want a balanced alloy you could add half pound of 50/50 solder (.25 lead, .25 tin) and you would have 9.9 lead, .3 antimony and .35 tin. since the total weight is now 10.5 pounds 9.9/10.5 is 94.3, .3/10.5 is .027 and .35/10.5 is .033. Round that off to the nearest percent and you have 94-3-3. Add 3 pounds of range scrap and you are pretty close to 96-2-2.
Tim

[kevin c]

where did you get your isotope container scrap from?
In a large metropolitan population center just one or two radiopharmacies usually supply all the hospitals, medical centers and specialty facilities with the radioisotopes for diagnostic imaging and radiotherapies. The pharmacies get the materials from cyclotrons and reactors in various lead containers which usually get scrapped because processing and return shipping is too costly.

A quick on line search usually will turn up the radiopharmacies supplying your area. A call or stopping by with a note saying you’ll beat the local scrapyard price and will pick up to boot might net you a bonanza of clean lead.

Be advised, to really make the manager go for it you may want to take all they have. I recall another member here who was a regular buyer talking about hundreds to thousands of pounds at a time, and I can personally confirm that.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

No need to reinvent the wheel. Elmer Keith had it right a long time ago with his 20/1 alloy. When sized correctly and lubed well, it works great in most revolver loads. Start scrounging for pewter. A while back I bought a big stack of pewter plates at an antique store. Made them an offer that I could live with and they took it. Don't forget to look in the swapping and selling section too. I got a good amount of lead with 5% antimony in it there, easy to make Lyman #2 with it.

[Gobeyond]

If you are tired of alloying 94-3-3 is good for just about anything. I use it or just about anything I can get. But I’m not tired of it, I keep it simple. Alloying is an extra step. $3.40 is kinda high. Take a break until you feel the need.

[ebb]

You guys taught me to use the 20/1 alloy and thus far I like it just fine. However, finding pewter is proving to be impossible for me and I was wondering if there is another metal that can be used instead of pewter or tin to make a usable alloy for my slower speed handguns. 38spec, 45acp and some 9mm for my Sten.

[Larry Gibson]

Lyman #2 is sort of the benchmark and has proven itself to be good in most applications.

Concur, Lyman #2 alloy [90/5/5] is probably the best ternary alloy to use.

Your GT Bullet ally os very similar to COWWs plus 2% tin alloy. That alloy is very good and usable for all but the finest in accuracy, especially at higher velocities of 2000+ fps.

[35 Rem]

You guys taught me to use the 20/1 alloy and thus far I like it just fine. However, finding pewter is proving to be impossible for me and I was wondering if there is another metal that can be used instead of pewter or tin to make a usable alloy for my slower speed handguns. 38spec, 45acp and some 9mm for my Sten.

For low velocity handgun loading the lowly clip-on wheel weights or range scrap would work just fine and be a lot cheaper than 20/1. I know Elmer used it and I used to read everything he wrote in Gun & Ammo magazine every issue but as a broke High school/college kid at the time, I used the cheapest version of lead I could find. I still find myself very hesitant to put $20 to $30 of tin into a Lee 20lb pot to turn out handgun bullets in spite of my much better financial situation compared to back then (late 1970's - early 1980's).

[RogerDat]

94-3-3 sounds good to me. But how would you arrive there with Lino type and range scrap and 50-50 solder. Does someone have a link to learn the math of it? It’s an end product and the pencils have stated it. With different ingredients I have to go a different way.

Member Bumpo developed a very useful alloy calculator available for download from this sticky https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators
It is a spreadsheet so one needs to have MS Excel OR OpenOffice Calc which is free open source software available here https://www.openoffice.org/download/ One can choose to just install Calc (the spreadsheet application) during the installation. OpenOffice is however a full suite of office tools that are generally compatible with Microsoft Office documents.

Especially useful if one scrounges lead as there are places to add in custom alloys.

I make different alloys in 100# or larger batches just so they will be consistent. I agree with the idea that a small variation isn't usually a problem but consistent is preferable even if the percentage of something is off by a touch one way or the other.

I like Lyman #2 90/5/5 as the equal parts antimony and tin create a stronger alloy than one would expect from the 5% of each metal. Sum is greater than the parts. That alloy can be pushed pretty hard without leading. Although I tend to powder coat high velocity rounds for 5.56 or 30 caliber milsurps. Powder coat yields almost jacketed performance. Lyman #2 is also is easy to cut with plain lead to yield less "rich" alloys of 94/3/3 or 96/2/2 if that is all that is required.

I have had good results for handgun plinking rounds all the way down to 97/1.5/1.5 which is essentially 50/50 COWW and Plain lead plus 1.5% tin. I tumble lube a lot of those rounds and have no leading.

I have suggested that folks just getting started casting bypass making their lead and start with "known good" alloy that is purchased as it removes the alloy making as a skill to be mastered before they can get good cast bullets created. Same applies to anyone who factors the cost of purchasing lead alloys as the better deal compared to getting into casting and scrounging for their own lead. I think the scrounging is fun, I have been able to accumulate a much larger supply of lead buying scrap than I could have fit into the budget as purchases of ready made alloy. Then too there is the sudden joy at finding some linotype or bars of body solder.

Doesn't have to be all one way or the other either One can purchase alloys and scrounge for filler such as soft lead to cut them with to make ones money go further and using the alloy calculator it is pretty easy to cut store bought 94/3/3 with soft lead to cast revolver or 45 acp rounds at a reduced cost with a known alloy.

Side note hardball 92/6/2 is almost same hardness as Lyman #2, BHN of 16 and 15 respectively. Hardball uses less tin which is expensive amd just a touch more anitmony which is less expensive which is one reason the commercial casting operations used hardball. Not too difficult to use the calculator and a bit of solder get hardball to yield almost same alloy as COWW plus 1.5% tin and that has been wacking whitetails out of a 30-06 for at least a couple of generations of casters if not more. Soft lead I think is the scrap that is easiest to find or cheapest to purchase from foundry so there can be some savings from buying hardball and using soft to cut the alloy and cut the cost per bullet.

[Rickf1985]

I have a problem with that calculator. it does not give true readings of BHN whenever you are using pure lead. That is the biggest offender but there are others. If you look at pure lead in the selection field it shows it as 5 BHN. Just select 1 in that block and click enter and look down at the bottom and you will see that it is assigned a value of 8.6 BHN! Now, if you are trying to figure a 50/50 mix of pure and W/W for example you will get a substantial difference between what the calculator tells you and what you actually get.

There are others that also do not have matching values to what they show in the fields. To find out just select 1 in that field with nothing else and hit enter and see what it shows at the bottom. That is the actual value the calculator is using to calculate your alloy, not what it shows in the hardness block up in the fields. I always tell people that if you are using pure than use the mixing cross calculator put out by Wiederlader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y0raK6_Vbk

[Rickf1985]

Just to add to what I said above, I do use that calculator a lot. I will get you in the ballpark for what you are looking for and then fine adjustments in your alloy can be made and documented for the next batch. If I knew how to use Excell I would modify the calculator for my use to have the pure actually use BHN 5 but there must be some reason it is set for 8.6. I know that is the figure Rotometals uses but when my three lead testers all tell me it is 5 then it is 5, not 8.6!

I just compared the mixing cross method with the calculator to get a BHN of ten from Lino with BHN 19 and pure with either BHN of 8.6 or 5.

Mixing cross with BHN of 5 would give me 9# of pure and 5# of lino to get 14# of BHN 10

Bumpo's calculator calls for 9# of pure to 1.4# of Lino to get 10.4# of 10.4BHN.

Bumpo's calculator using the mixing cross formula of 9# to 5# gives 14# of 13BHN.

So, Adding that extra 3.6 BHN to the formula for pure really changes things and makes it very inaccurate.