First time with iron molds Pt.2

[Wolfdog91]

Okie dokie so part two of this .
So after being told probably 100 plus times on Facebook that my mold and or lead was too cold or not clean enough I decided to just to say YOLO.
So first thing I did , was dunk the whole mold in a jar of acetone
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/9169e4e824e7f1d5cbd4f3e81ccc0d14.jpg
It honestly irritates me not being able to know exactly number for alot of stuff. "Cast until it's hot enough" just doesn't bid well in my mind. Some things I like to have more of the " Art" perspective so e things a prefere more of the "science" perspective. With casting it's becoming more of a science for me. Anyhow at the very least to satisfy my own curiosity of how hot my mold gets went out and got one of these [emoji48]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/8615e65679c52953502e1278883728ba.jpg
Along with a can of
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/fcbdb21432497687012ea5e959b2e1c4.jpg

For those curious how long the mold soaked ,
From the time I left to the time I got back home from shopping .
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/9846d11ec3bf96c5d3a992824e2a7072.jpg
And how it looked when I got back
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/5aa3da5a5990925838016b46d313b6d9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/667261381a1c4e89ca3bd45b487694f1.jpg
One or two folks reccomended cleaning the vent lines with a tooth pick or scrub. I took the tooth pick option.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/a445ddbb7d7b238703099ca11eaa8103.jpg

To be continued
Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

Once that was done took it out side and break cleaned the tar out of it
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/85b9ee9df0796dd32abddf9b8758121f.jpg
Was reccomended in my last post to add a metal plate to my hot plate to help with heating so looked around and found a scrap piece of 3/8" plate that was honestly about perfect. Honestly wish I found it a month ago when I needed it for a target but hay what can you do. Bigh as thick as it was figured when I finally heated up it would retain it very well
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/c4d4181036f1320857f98a7d6c05ec73.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/d181d78349cd2746d8049a8aa232242f.jpg
Was also told I should to the trick where you use a steel coffee can to make like a lil furnace type deal for you hot plate but didn't have any so [emoji1745]

Anyhow while that's pre heating I set my PID to 800 , which o honestly think is too much , pretty sure that's where you start burning off some in the alloy stuff but idk. Eveyone kept saying turn it all the way up so..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/43abe41a1ec4a1f11b995b44bb504486.jpg

Now decided to check my hot plate and mold temp after 20min and just plain don't think my hot plate is good enough
The plate
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/3929fce127b8d719600afb66bd9d4b58.jpg
My mold
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/a4d69c1d396a75c9ee5494cec0831b78.jpg

Now if course,like the 12yr I am at heart, I started shooting everything I could with this thermometer and noticed some seemed off when I hit my lead pot.
One of these things isn't like the other on of these things is wrong
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/415a187b28a7b72fc402852f8dde5bb4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/46cf35e87fbec2c04be5ff91adeb19d5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/7a0317dc89381ecacf4736fc56cfbc9f.jpg
To be continued

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

Well I later learned that these laser thermometers dnt quite work with stuff like lead for multiple reasons but decided to go back to the old stand by of pre heating
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/df949219c069fb7fd673f2a0234b0af7.jpg
And I just left it like that while I went and made a sandwich . Came back and started pouring and guess it was finally hot enough because the sprue was talking legitimately 30+ second to cool down [emoji23] if thats not hot enough idk what is.
Now I do have a little goof where I cut the sprue too quickly and smeared lead . Did some reading on cleaning this and saw a lot of people liked making a little scraper by hammering a soft metal cleaning rod flat on one end like a chisel. Did this with an aluminum cleaning rod and gently remove any and all lead I could see from the mold faces ,top aside and bottom of the sprue plate. Then made sure to give the bottom of the sprue plate a little swipe with a oily rag and with the alignment pins
Anyhow after that I tinkered with the lead temp ,got all the way down to 700 and just about all my boolits where coming out the same. Much nicer then my last bunch https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/a37e88a25a4979922069daa88c2fe0ad.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/5f81a433a23ec6e35efe1836d0e82193.jpg
But now I getting these little fins [emoji58] alot of people where telling me they don't matter but honestly they irritate me . I don't like it at all
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/3f3424e169e6e1bebe1f046d0bcbf005.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/08ca89dd08c426358d406f01b58c3c49.jpg
Also still trying to master cutting a really nice bottom
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/1be5efb7a88a1d0bbdf8da3ee4bef88d.jpg
To be continued

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

So .. fins ... Only thing in my mind that could cause fins would be the mold not closing perfectly. I though I remember noticing a gap with this one when I first looked all the molds over and sure enough https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/3c559d7c3a3ba26617ed860b50eccce8.jpg
[emoji58][emoji58] Ok this is annoying but honestly the more irritated I get and the more trouble something causes me ,the more I Enjoy it.... I'dont know whats wrong with me lol
So let the mold cool down and proceeded to look it over
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/81761530fd54270c5f6ad2b5e0b4b149.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/f461fbab32cd877452960d37e009a020.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/d4a82ad9d5c35720c683d41e4d9a1780.jpg
Now ... I am curious if it's possibly because I'm using Lee handles on a Lyman mold but end when I would just put the two halves together without handles they would do the same,with the gap that is.
The only thing I can really see did the alignment holes are a little boogered but
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/7789de41585815c798b98e2cc13c9d13.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/bf0af57c852ccc16c95ffcebbadd98a8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/e4032276ad3decbb3000377b0267c5d1.jpg
Not really sure what could cause this honestly [emoji848][emoji848]
Anyhow reckon I'll get some different handles on order and a rat tail file to clean up these holes. , What's else am I missing ?

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

[makeurownfun]

Much better. Now that your mold is up to temp you'll be fine.

If those fins do not increase in size or as long as you don't start getting them along the driving bands of the projectile, IDK that id worry too much about them.

[jdgabbard]

Those are some good looking boolits. Like I mentioned in your other thread, you'll like working with iron molds. Once you get used to the extra weight and get a good cadence, they're far better than aluminum.

[Winger Ed.]

Yeah, you're coming along very well.

For the fins-- you might ease off the heat just a little, squeeze the handles a little tighter,
and/or use a little less Tin in the alloy if you can do without its extra hardness.

[405grain]

Wolfdog: You are on your way to making some really good bullets. You are correct in suspecting the burrs on the alignment pin holes as the culprit in your nose finning. When I first start out with a set of molds I check to make sure that both mold blocks seat against each other, and no light shows between them. Almost always there's a slight gap, (even with brand new molds). To fix this I take a countersink bit and by hand (No power tools - turn the bit by hand!) I de-burr the edges of the alignment holes. It takes very little to do this, and I check to see that the mold blocks close completely.

Something else to consider. If there's a tiny gap between the mold blocks, tiny droplets of lead splatter can get on the face of the blocks. These will also prevent the blocks from fully closing. Were only talking about .001" to .002" here, but it's still a pain, and one that can be easily avoided by making sure that the blocks close fully. I've found that the best way to remove lead splatter or smearing from blocks and the sprue plate is with an ink eraser. While the mold is cool, an ink erasure can scrub off most lead in under a minute with no damage to the molds. Make sure that you blow out any erasure crumbs afterwards or they will create a defect in the cast bullet (ask me how I know). Here's a link for the erasers: https://www.amazon.com/Sand-Eraser-Ink-Pencil-3pcs/dp/B013ZA7HCU/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2HXARRYBKWL96&keywords=ink+eraser&qid=1679334621&sprefix=ink+eraser%2Caps%2C217&sr=8-4

To further prevent finning and make sure that all my bullets are uniform, I add a step to my casting cadence. As we all know, if a bullet sticks in the mold cavity, a gentle rap on the hinge pin of the mold handles with your "motivational tool" almost always releases it. Lots of folks use a mallet or what have you to open the sprue plate. Being a creature of habit, I wear a pair of thick welders gloves, and just push the sprue plate open with my thumb. I do have a 16" long end off a shovel handle for tapping on the mold handle pivot though. As part of my casting cadence, once I've dropped the bullets out of the mold and closed the mold blocks, and before the next pour, I'll give the one of the tongs on the mold handles a light tap. (This is the portion of the handles that extends out the sides of the mold blocks. DO NOT strike the mold blocks) Doing this makes sure that both halves of the mold blocks are fully seated against each other. Bare in mind that I'm saying "tap", not "hit" the handle tong.

My experience with the Lyman #311284: The very first time I shot this bullet I was able to fire 15 consecutive rounds into under an inch at 50 yards. This was with gas checked bullets powder coated with Smoke's signal blue and sized to .3125", shot out of a 7.65x53 Mauser. Properly loaded this can be a very accurate bullet. It was designed for the 30-40 Krag over 100 years ago, and was one of the very first bullets designed to use a gas check. It has been loaded successfully in virtually every 30 caliber cartridge, and when bumped up in size with powder coating can also be used to load 303 British, 7.62x54R, 7.7 Japanese, 7.65x53, and even 7.62x39 (if the chamber will accept it) In my experience a bolt action 7.62x39 may, or may not chamber with this bullet, but an SKS will swallow a torpedo. I think that now that you're starting to get some good results with this bullet it may become one of your favorites.

[mehavey]

fins--Almost always after the mould get hot... and solved by free-pour instead of contact/pressure pour.
(at least for me)

[Wolfdog91]

Wolfdog: You are on your way to making some really good bullets. You are correct in suspecting the burrs on the alignment pin holes as the culprit in your nose finning. When I first start out with a set of molds I check to make sure that both mold blocks seat against each other, and no light shows between them. Almost always there's a slight gap, (even with brand new molds). To fix this I take a countersink bit and by hand (No power tools - turn the bit by hand!) I de-burr the edges of the alignment holes. It takes very little to do this, and I check to see that the mold blocks close completely.

Something else to consider. If there's a tiny gap between the mold blocks, tiny droplets of lead splatter can get on the face of the blocks. These will also prevent the blocks from fully closing. Were only talking about .001" to .002" here, but it's still a pain, and one that can be easily avoided by making sure that the blocks close fully. I've found that the best way to remove lead splatter or smearing from blocks and the sprue plate is with an ink eraser. While the mold is cool, an ink erasure can scrub off most lead in under a minute with no damage to the molds. Make sure that you blow out any erasure crumbs afterwards or they will create a defect in the cast bullet (ask me how I know). Here's a link for the erasers: https://www.amazon.com/Sand-Eraser-Ink-Pencil-3pcs/dp/B013ZA7HCU/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2HXARRYBKWL96&keywords=ink+eraser&qid=1679334621&sprefix=ink+eraser%2Caps%2C217&sr=8-4

To further prevent finning and make sure that all my bullets are uniform, I add a step to my casting cadence. As we all know, if a bullet sticks in the mold cavity, a gentle rap on the hinge pin of the mold handles with your "motivational tool" almost always releases it. Lots of folks use a mallet or what have you to open the sprue plate. Being a creature of habit, I wear a pair of thick welders gloves, and just push the sprue plate open with my thumb. I do have a 16" long end off a shovel handle for tapping on the mold handle pivot though. As part of my casting cadence, once I've dropped the bullets out of the mold and closed the mold blocks, and before the next pour, I'll give the one of the tongs on the mold handles a light tap. (This is the portion of the handles that extends out the sides of the mold blocks. DO NOT strike the mold blocks) Doing this makes sure that both halves of the mold blocks are fully seated against each other. Bare in mind that I'm saying "tap", not "hit" the handle tong.

My experience with the Lyman #311284: The very first time I shot this bullet I was able to fire 15 consecutive rounds into under an inch at 50 yards. This was with gas checked bullets powder coated with Smoke's signal blue and sized to .3125", shot out of a 7.65x53 Mauser. Properly loaded this can be a very accurate bullet. It was designed for the 30-40 Krag over 100 years ago, and was one of the very first bullets designed to use a gas check. It has been loaded successfully in virtually every 30 caliber cartridge, and when bumped up in size with powder coating can also be used to load 303 British, 7.62x54R, 7.7 Japanese, 7.65x53, and even 7.62x39 (if the chamber will accept it) In my experience a bolt action 7.62x39 may, or may not chamber with this bullet, but an SKS will swallow a torpedo. I think that now that you're starting to get some good results with this bullet it may become one of your favorites.

Very interesting. I'll be ordering some of these eraser's. Happen to have a link to the drill bit you use ? Also I'm using this one for 30-06

[Thumbcocker]

A layer of clay based cat litter or floor sweep on top of the lead in your pot will prevent oxidation of the alloy and allow you to preheat molds on top of the pot. My method is to place the mold on top of the cat litter, plug in the pot, do something else for at least an hour. Usually get keeper boolits in a few casts. I run my pot at max setting. Adding more alloy cools the melt if boolits get frosty.

FWIW

[405grain]

Wolfdog: don't use a drill bit - they will chatter. Use a countersink. And don't use it with a power tool, just use it by hand like you would a case chamfering tool. You can get a whole set of countersinks muy cheap at places like harbor freight or Amazon. These bits are actually intended for cutting the tapered depression in materials so that flat head screws will seat flush. We're just co-opting them to use as de-burring tools. Remember, the goal here is to just remove the dinged up burr around the edge of the alignment hole in the mold blocks, so it doesn't take very much to get the job done. For de-burring its better to use a countersink that's at least 3 times bigger than the hole, so that you get a clean cut with no chatter.

On the #311284, the nose of the bullet ahead of the driving bands is a bore riding section. If you fully powder coat the bullet the nose might get too fat for the cartridge to chamber in a 30-06. Before you load up 100 rounds and then find out that they won't chamber, I recommend that you make up a dummy cartridge (no primer or powder) and see if it will cycle in your rifle. If it chambers you're good to go. If it doesn't you'll either have to use a lubed bullet, nose size your PC bullets, or try that "hybrid" trick where only the driving bands are PC'd.
311912

[Wolfdog91]

Ok so this confuses me about the whole bore rider and not chambering thing.idk mabye I'm gonna sound like an idiot here but that's not out the normal so...
Ok so I don't use book COAL , like at all. Unless I'm using a bullet that's just oo shoer to reach the lands I just plain don't. Basically I just take whatever bullet I'm planning on using take a once fired piece of brass from that ride , make a dummy round / coal(CBTO) gauge with it by with cutting the neck so I can squeeze it and add tension or something similar. I seat the bullet long in case measure it camber it pull it out and measure that. Do that give to ten times average it out and that's where my jam point is. That's danger. So I back two thousands of of that . Learned to do it this way after watching alot of the FClass / precision guys and how they reload and just makes sense to me honestly.
Now I'd did this with my 30-06 and one of these bower loaded bullets and bot my measurement. Now what I don't get is this. The nose is a bore rider ...so that means it's going to work like the driving bands right ?.... Well the driving bands have to be bigger then the bore to work correctly.... So idk I'm just not getting the problem I guess.
Again I probably sound like a complete idiot but hay I don't know so I'm asking.

Honestly I feel like I just need to get some cerosafe already so I can do some chamber casts

[TurnipEaterDown]

Bore rider design puts the nose in contact w/ Lands. The ID of the rifle barrel. This is designed to support & align the bullet.
Usually they will be either a little loose to Land Dia and diminish the effectiveness, or in interference, and while working for alignment & support may seat deeper on chambering and/or pull the bullet if you decide to remove a chambered cartridge by opening the bolt/action.
If the nose is too big, like I said, can attempt to sink the bullet in the case as action is closed. Bore riders have to be fit well to work best. Some mold makers hate them btw.

[405grain]

Wolfdog: A bore riding design is a cast bullet where the driving bands are just a little bigger in diameter than the barrel groove diameter, and the nose section of the bullet is just at the diameter of the lands. The nose of the bullet should (ideally) align the bullet with the bore axis when the cartridge is chambered. If the nose of the bullet is too fat, seating the bullet deeper usually doesn't work. To get the cartridge to chamber you would probably have to seat the bullet so deeply that the driving bands would be below the case neck. That won't work. You need for the nose of the bullet (the section ahead of the driving bands) to be a good fit with the barrel lands, and the driving bands to be about .001" over the groove diameter.

To save yourself a lot of grief, resize an empty case and load it up with one of your powder coated bullets. Don't add any powder or primer. Seat the bullet to the crimp groove, or to the 3.063" COAL that Lyman lists for this bullet in the 30-06 (Lyman 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook) Now see if this dummy cartridge will cycle in your rifle. If it works you're gold! If it doesn't chamber you've got problems to solve. Do this before you load up some ammo, because if the dummy won't chamber you'll probably have to pull the bullets from your reloads and start over.

If you look at examples like the RCBS 7-168-Sp, the Lyman #287641, or the RCBS 30-165-Sil you will see what I mean about the nose of the bullet behind the ojive being a cylinder that's the diameter of the barrel lands, while the driving bands are just above the groove diameter. If that cylindrical section of the nose is above the land diameter, the bullet (and hence the cartridge) is not going to chamber.

[mehavey]

Easier OAL determination:

- Close bolt
- Run a dowel down the muzzle to the bolt face. Mark dowel at muzzle.
- Remove bolt
- Drop (sized) bullet into chamber
- Hold bullet up against rifling firmly w/ pencil (or seprate dowel)
- Run 1st dowel down the muzzle to the bullet. Mark dowel at muzzle.

Distance between the two marks is the MAX OAL to lands for that bullet/that rifle.

[Streetwalker]

Great photo's!

[slim1836]

Easier OAL determination:

- Close bolt
- Run a dowel down the muzzle to the bolt face. Mark dowel at muzzle.
- Remove bolt
- Drop (sized) bullet into chamber
- Hold bullet up against rifling firmly w/ pencil (or seprate dowel)
- Run 1st dowel down the muzzle to the bullet. Mark dowel at muzzle.

Distance between the two marks is the MAX OAL to lands for that bullet/that rifle.

^^^^THIS^^^^

Slim

[GregLaROCHE]

Easier OAL determination:

- Close bolt
- Run a dowel down the muzzle to the bolt face. Mark dowel at muzzle.
- Remove bolt
- Drop (sized) bullet into chamber
- Hold bullet up against rifling firmly w/ pencil (or seprate dowel)
- Run 1st dowel down the muzzle to the bullet. Mark dowel at muzzle.

Distance between the two marks is the MAX OAL to lands for that bullet/that rifle.

That’s the way I’ve always done it. This method should be a sticky someplace.

[45DUDE]

Those holes aren't round. If you countersink them the pins can't line the mold up. . A very fine file will take off any high spots. You can adjust the mold by holding to the light. You could even clamp the mold and drive the pins in enough to straighten. A correct flat punch and a regular hammer will do this. A hot plate wont heat my molds enough. I lay them on the pot. I AM TALKING about lightly flat file the mold a few strokes when you are through <the bad side> to see if the raised part around the holes are flat . Not taking off metal. The mold half with the pins look good.

[405grain]

1. Do not countersink the holes. Use a countersink tool to de-burr just the edges of the holes. A file is not the right tool for this as it can remove material that is proud of the surface, but will not remove the burr that is inside the hole. Do not attempt to drift the alignment pins in further with a hammer and a punch. A hammer should be your last tool, not your first. Look at the photographs: the holes are round, they just have a burr at the surface.

2. If you powder coat a bore riding bullet and it will not chamber, this is a diameter problem, not a length problem. Determining the maximum COAL is great, but your not going to be able to do that if the cartridge can't even chamber. Ideally the section of a bore rider between the driving bands and the ojive is right around .300" (for a 30 caliber bullet) The lands of the barrel are at .300" inside diameter. If you powder coat the bullet and it increases that long nose section to .302" diameter you're not going to be able to push that into a .300" diameter tube. If you try solving that problem by seating the bullet deeper into the case you might end up with just a tiny section of the forward driving band ahead of the case shoulder, with an air gap all the way around the nose of the bullet and the neck of the case. There are lots of other reasons why trying to fix a fat nose on a bore riding bullet by seating it deeper is a bad idea: too easy to push the bullet completely inside the case while chambering (which will generate a bore obstruction), Massive gas blow by and gas cutting when fired because the nose section does not seal the chamber lead, the bullet will enter the barrel crooked because the nose is not holding it in alignment when it is fired, etc.

When you have a fat nose bullet, adjusting the bullet depth so that it will fit the chamber works good on spitzer, Loverin, and flat nose designs. It does not always work good on bore riding designs because you would have to seat the bullet very deeply. The reason that I suggested that Wolfdog make up a dummy round at the normal seating depth is to see if his powder coated bullets will chamber. If they do chamber he can adjust the COAL for best performance, and all is good. If the cartridge will not chamber at all, adjusting the seating depth is not the answer: having the bullet nose at the proper diameter is.

[mehavey]

Two observations:
- The "fins" as now shown are of no particular concern. Free pour will solve even that.
- Bore Rider is "ALOX" spelled sideways.
:drinks:

[45DUDE]

So-what was the fix?

[waksupi]

When using that Brakekleen, keep in mind it is poisonous, and especially NEVER spray it on a hot mold.

[openbook]

When using that Brakekleen, keep in mind it is poisonous, and especially NEVER spray it on a hot mold.
As somebody who keeps Brakleen around for a variety of uses, thanks for this reminder.