Pythons and accuracy

[Longfellow]

Is there any credible information out there regarding the new Python and it’s accuracy out at 50 yards out of a Ransom Rest? I recall an active pistolsmith who is purported to be popular if you want an old Colt worked on, who has had a fair number of these new Colts through his shop and claims them to actually eclipse the famous OMM but would like some validation if it is true.
Thanks,
Ed

[charlie b]

No reason they would not be. The real draw of the Python, besides the looks, was it came out of the box as a hand tuned, custom gun. Smoothed action and accurate.

You can take most any DA revolver and send it to a good gunsmith to have it 'fixed' to the same level. Some may require more work than other but it is no secret how to make a DA revolver accurate and smooth.

You end up spending as much or more on your custom gun than on the 'out of the box' custom gun.

The old Python has a lock system that will go 'out of tune' if treated to a lot of heavy DA usage. I had mine tuned every few years. It is harder to find good gunsmiths that know how to work on them.

[derek45]

I would carefully inspect any new Python ( same goes for S&W and Ruger, everybody is rushing things out the door with little to no QC )

They sent a bunch out with bad crowns a few years ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2gyAlEBM6c



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBuhMC5JLA

[Electrod47]

I typed in your question on google. It went to a handloader yuotube. doing just that what you wanted.

Testing Handloads in the new Colt Python 357 Mag

Handloader TV

[Longfellow]

Electrod47,
Is some of your text in your post supposed to be a link?
I’d like to watch that video.

[rintinglen]

I watched the video and was a little dismayed at the 15 yard testing distance. 15 Yards? Ransom rest? 6 inch revolver? Seems to be a little on the short side. 25 yards has been a standard for many decades, allowing easier comparisons between loads. Still, it seemed as though that Python would shoot.

[Electrod47]

Hello,
try this. I tested it and it went to the video. If fails just cut and paste the video title "Testing Handloads in the new Colt Python 357 Mag"
or in your search engine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvL9sobLJGI&t=1368s

[dverna]

I watched the video and was a little dismayed at the 15 yard testing distance. 15 Yards? Ransom rest? 6 inch revolver? Seems to be a little on the short side. 25 yards has been a standard for many decades, allowing easier comparisons between loads. Still, it seemed as though that Python would shoot.

Agree with you. 15 yard accuracy testing using a Ransom Rest is rather silly.

[Electrod47]

The gun groups good enough at 15 yards. Now its up to the individual who purchases it to get with his/her favorite load and tune it for 50 yds or 100 yards whatever. I don't own one or handled one since the 70's. There is little doubt the new one should at least perform as good. Word of mouth is what sells a certain gun over time. These have been out for a few years now with well documented hiccups in the initial sales. Everybody seems to agree all the bugs were worked out.

[ATCDoktor]

This isn’t what you want but it’s how mine performed at 25 yards:

Mixed brass Zero brand remanufactured 148 grain wad cutters at 25 yards off a pistol rest center to center it’s a little over an inch.
https://i.postimg.cc/QCSnX2PF/26216-E95-2987-4-DF2-8-A65-9988-AA6-CE199.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

My handloads using 158 grain swaged lead .358 diameter SWC off a pistol rest at 25 yards
https://i.postimg.cc/PfM7zDxd/519495-C3-AFFF-4-F11-8162-2-E290-AA8-F190.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

That same load out of my 8 3/8” S&W model 14-3 off a pistol rest at 25 yards
https://i.postimg.cc/t4FCX7Qr/A738021-D-3-CAD-4-C15-B254-9491532-AC362.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

My experience has been (with my example of one) that (with ammo I had laying around the house) my 4” Python is “ass accurate as any revolver in my collection.

That said, it’s not superior in any to any of them.

[knifemaker]

Gentlemen let me do a little bragging on having a accurate pistol. The first photo is my IDPA pistol that was custom built with the installation of a match barrel and bushing. That group is 8 rounds of Federal 185 gr. Gold Match ammo fired from a Ransom rest at 25 yards. You can cover the group with a 5 cent nickel. Photo #2 was my LEO duty pistol. Colt National Match factory original. The group is 8 rounds of my duty 185 gr. +P hollow point ammo fired from a sand bag rest at 25 yards. Group is 1-1/2 inch. I laugh when someone tells me that 1911 pistols are not accurate.311873311874

[Longfellow]

There’s a six inch version at my local GS. I’m going to ask the owner if, when he sells it, could he give the buyer the invitation from me that he can use my Ransom Rest to do some 50 yard work if he wants. It is looking like Colt hopes folks forget that the original was touted at the finest target revolver available. Sure is shiny though. :lol:

[Jtarm]

I watched the video and was a little dismayed at the 15 yard testing distance. 15 Yards? Ransom rest? 6 inch revolver? Seems to be a little on the short side. 25 yards has been a standard for many decades, allowing easier comparisons between loads. Still, it seemed as though that Python would shoot.

With the demise of Bullseye and PPC, most folks consider 15 yards “long range”.

But, yeah, I agree. For field & target guns, 25 yards should be the starting point.

[OS OK]

I can get all 6 in the same hole with my Colt SAA 45...I just can't get a proof picture of the target! ... :bigsmyl2:

https://i.imgur.com/eIz15tlh.jpg

[460S&W]

It’s not a python but I just bought a new King Cobra 4.25” .357 that absolutely shoots AMAZING and I suck with revolvers. So I’d buy with confidence

[gnostic]

I don't think you can compare new vs old Pythons. Old Pythons had stacking triggers and I'm told the new ones don't, that's what colt said when the new revolvers came out. Obviously, the new ones have different lock works and I believe the 1970's versions barrels measured .356...

[lotech]

With the demise of Bullseye and PPC, most folks consider 15 yards “long range”.

But, yeah, I agree. For field & target guns, 25 yards should be the starting point.

I think that should be true for any handgun. All fifteen yard shooting will tell you is that you are an expert shooter and even very poor guns and sorry loads are incredibly accurate. Twenty-five yards should be the minumum distance for testing loads.

[shooting on a shoestring]

OS Ok….That’s FUNNY! And so true! Hahahaha!

[Bigslug]

I guess my question at this point would be: Has anybody dropped a set of pin gauges to check the new Pythons for uniformity of chamber throats and frame crush on the barrel threads? Having handled a couple at this point, my impression has been that they're on par with Smith or Ruger for lockup and the triggers seem to be starting about like the Ruger DA's I've known to polish themselves in beautifully with use. . .so I think the main issue for comparison would be if they're dimensionally any happier out of the box or if they're offering any perks for durability.

[Anchorite]

I don’t plan to divest myself of my “old” Pythons any time soon. The newer ones are not as hands-on built as the older ones.

[Ramjet-SS]

15 yards does not seem to matter as far as standard range to shoot with ransoms rest. I wonder if anything 15 yards or further will give comparative data on accuracy of that particular handgun and that particular load. So many variables that the yardage seems to be the least of concerns for me.

[charlie b]

Yep, there are a lot of variables to look at which makes comparing difficult. Mine (old version) is picky about loads. It loves max 125gn jacketed loads (under 2" at 25yd). 140gn cast loads are ok (a bit over 2"). It doesn't like 158gn cast loads (>3").

[MGD]

I have never been a Colt or Python fan. Last May I picked up a 3" from my LGS. I had service issue that was taken care of by Colt. I will say that if you plan on shooting the new Python, plan on buying a set of better grips and sights. That being said, the barrel, forcing cone, chambers, and chamber throats are exceptionally slick. I have shot almost exclusively lead bullets that I have cast. There has been no fouling issues. The interior finish of the bore and cylinder are comparable to my Freedom Arms 83. The accuracy from the first cylinder has been well above average. I have only shot the Python offhand. When I don't screw up, the bullets will shoot into one hole at 10-15 yds. I have not seen the need to go to the trouble on Ransom Rest testing. The upshot is that after 45 years of shooting handguns with numerous guns and thousands of dollars spent on custom gunsmithing, the new Python is my favorite and arguably the best shooting. The problem is that now I need to get a spare and probably a 6".

[Rockindaddy]

312436312437
Traded a pile of new Winchester primed 357 brass to Colt so they could load proof loads to do the final test on the new production Pythons. Have been shooting my new Python. The photo shows the new Python beside my old S&W 686. The new production Pythons are terrific! My gun has a 3 1/2 lb trigger. The action is as smooth as a baby's ass. Check out the 25 yard target shot from a sand bag rest. They are worth the investment. My grandkids will be shooting this gun!

[snowwolfe]

312436312437
Traded a pile of new Winchester primed 357 brass to Colt so they could load proof loads to do the final test on the new production Pythons. Have been shooting my new Python. The photo shows the new Python beside my old S&W 686. The new production Pythons are terrific! My gun has a 3 1/2 lb trigger. The action is as smooth as a baby's ass. Check out the 25 yard target shot from a sand bag rest. They are worth the investment. My grandkids will be shooting this gun!

Would love to know how you ended up with a 3.5 pound trigger pull. Every new Python I examined was at least 5 pounds from the factory due to passing the “drop test”.

Very curious, what is your connection to Colt/CZ that they came to you for Winchester brass?
Or another April fool joke?

[Rockindaddy]

Came to find out through a friend that subcontracts for Colt that the factory would have to shut down the proof final testing because they could not get proof loads from their supplier. Colt uses 3 rounds to proof the cylinders. This was during the Wuhan-Fauchi Flu epidemic !! I told my friend that I had over 1000 rounds of new 357 Winchester primed brass. I said I would trade the new brass @$500 credit for a new 6" tuned Python at jobber price. I sent the brass to Hartford and made the deal. Just had to pay the $600 boot difference. Remember Kevin Kosner in Dances with Wolves? They are in the Sioux village and the Sioux warrior trades his bone vest for the Lieutenant's tunic then they go into the lodge and another Sioux warrior gives the Lieutenant his knife for his hat. "Good Trade"!!!!!!

[Jtarm]

15 yards does not seem to matter as far as standard range to shoot with ransoms rest. I wonder if anything 15 yards or further will give comparative data on accuracy of that particular handgun and that particular load. So many variables that the yardage seems to be the least of concerns for me.

That’s fine, but you cannot call one gun or load more accurate than another based on testing at 15 yards only. Groups don’t open up evenly at longer ranges and cannot be predicted by extrapolation.

Many years ago, Wiley Clapp did an exhaustive test of S&W .41 and .44 magnums of every barrel length shooting from a Ransom, at 25,50,75 and 100 yards, with a large variety of ammo. .44 magnum loads ranged from 180-300 grain bullets (maybe higher.)

The general trend was that all things being roughly equal, heavier bullets held their accuracy better at longer ranges.

A 180-grain .44 magnum that put 12 in one hole at 25 yards often wouldn’t stay on paper at a 100 (8x8 targets, IIRC.)

A 300-grainer that grouped 2” at 25 might still be grouping 4” at 100.

Wish I could find that articl. It was one of the best gun tests I ever read, at least in a magazine or online publication.

[Hiright]

Reading the fine print in most of the gun mags of the last few years, it's rare to find any handgun accuracy tested at 25 yds - and never farther. I shake my head when I see "groups fired from a rest @ 7 yards". Seems the old standard of 25 yds is as gone as quality control.
However, my friend's new Python is a quality revolver. With a minimum of load development, it's shooting an inch and sometimes a tad less at 25 yds from a rest. Of course this was the perfect excuse for me to procure a new Anaconda.

[dogdoc]

My six inch 2020 python is extremely accurate with 158 grain hornady xtp and 2400. 5 or 6 shots in an inch at 25 yards. I cannot do as well with cast but it is still decent. I also agree that this 10 and 15 yard accuracy testing for full size handguns is ridiculous.

[6string]

When Colt introduced the Hunter model and Silhouette model Pythons in the 1980s, they were often tested for accuracy at 100 yards in published articles. Of course, IHMSA was really going strong at the time. Ruger and S&W were really duking it out, and Dan Wesson was breaking new ground. Colt was a little late to the game and really tried to prove themselves, especially given all they had was a 357 Magnum when the 44 Magnum was “de rigueur”.
In any case, there were occasionally some very impressive groups being shot.

I don’t think I’ve seen anything indicating that the new Pythons could group any better at 25 yds like the Silhouette or Hunter models could at 100 yds.

[lx2008]

this was from Handloader magazine. excellent video (youtube tv)

[missionary5155]

Was a test range given ? Nice group if fired at 50 yards !

[black mamba]

Nice group if fired at 20 yards.

[lx2008]

Was a test range given ? Nice group if fired at 50 yards !

i believe it was 25ft but could have been 50. i watched this a few times. tried the load myself after seeing this
on my python (new ver.) & mine was very close to this @ about 30yds & i just used a bag.

[Thumbcocker]

with the demise of bullseye and ppc, most folks consider 15 yards “long range”.

But, yeah, i agree. For field & target guns, 25 yards should be the starting point.

amen!

[Thumbcocker]

Gentlemen let me do a little bragging on having a accurate pistol. The first photo is my IDPA pistol that was custom built with the installation of a match barrel and bushing. That group is 8 rounds of Federal 185 gr. Gold Match ammo fired from a Ransom rest at 25 yards. You can cover the group with a 5 cent nickel. Photo #2 was my LEO duty pistol. Colt National Match factory original. The group is 8 rounds of my duty 185 gr. +P hollow point ammo fired from a sand bag rest at 25 yards. Group is 1-1/2 inch. I laugh when someone tells me that 1911 pistols are not accurate.311873311874

Thank you for the morning "warm fuzzy ".

[Rockindaddy]

My new Colt Python came out of the box with a 3 1/2 lb trigger. Sold my old 6" 686 S&W as I enjoy the Colt more. Great shooter! I shoot both Smiths and Colt. Just getting used to the cylinder latch. You push a S&W and pull a Colt. The Python loves my handloads. It's a 50 yard gun. All I have are sand bags but the occasional 2" group at 50 yds makes my day. 158 gr Lyman-Keith style bullet and Bullseye or Unique work.

[Rockindaddy]

MGD: You crack me up! I too have been shooting for over 60 years. Enjoy my new s/s 6" Colt Python. Now like you I keep thinking I need a "packin" iron!! A 4" or 3" Python would fill the bill. Wooooh! Never satisfied. I do like my 3" S&W 696 in 44 Spec.

[Char-Gar]

The Python Myth has been around for a very long time. Supernatural accuracy became a standard part of the myth. WEll the things were so darn pretty and expensive, they just had to be better right? They are good handguns, but not moreso that other well made Colts and Smiths. I have owned four of them, but none ever stuck around long term. Drooling Python fans wanted them far more than I did.

[Char-Gar]

I think that should be true for any handgun. All fifteen yard shooting will tell you is that you are an expert shooter and even very poor guns and sorry loads are incredibly accurate. Twenty-five yards should be the minumum distance for testing loads.

50 yards will separate the men from the boys and the good handguns from the not so good.

[txbirdman]

Cha Gar, your experience mirror’s mine. I had a 6” stainless Python and a 6” S&W 27-2 at the same time many years ago. Having no real need for both I decided to do a “shoot off” and keep the more accurate of the 2. The 27-2 is still in my safe and the Python is long gone.

[rintinglen]

My own experience runs counter to those of CharGar and the Txbirdman. My first Blue Python was the most accurate factory revolver I have ever owned. It was no exaggeration to say that the S&W M-27-2 and the Ruger Security Six I owned then shot rings around the groups shot by the Python.

Alas, that happy state did not last. By the time I had 5,000 rounds through it, it was spitting like a redneck chewing tobacco. I had it re-timed, and it lasted about 6,000 rounds before it got sold and I bought a Bill Wilson M-10 PPC gun. That gun shot as well as the Python, maybe a smidge better, but it was not factory. I have three Pythons now, but they don't get shot much. I run to lighter guns now.

[M-Tecs]

Back in the PPC days (before custom barrel makers started production PPC barrels) Smolts/Smythons were very common. Smolts/Smythons are a Python barrels installed on a S&W frames. Once the barrel makers produced viable options Smolts became a thing of the past for two reasons. Accuracy and weight of the custom barrels better for PPC. Pythons had a taper bore/twist that claimed to increase accuracy particularly with wadcutters.

I've owned 3 Pythons. I currently own zero Pythons but I still own a bunch of S&W's.

One of my Pythons was incredibly accurate. The other two were "average" by S&W standards. The accurate one was bright nickel. If it would have been blued, I probably would still have it. Bright nickel is not my thing. Brushed nickel or brushed SS is fine with me but high luster chrome look not so much.

[Tatume]

As M-Tec notes, the accuracy of Python and OMM revolvers was partly attributed to rifling twist rate when shooting wadcutters. I like my OMM very much.

NRA Shooting Illustrated: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/handgun-rifling-bullet-weights-barrel-twists/

In taking a look at Precision Pistol Competition (PPC), where the .38 Spl. revolver still reigns with the 148-grain hollow-base wadcutters as the ammunition of choice, accuracy at 50 yards is an absolute necessity. In the early days of the sport, the 1:18.75-inch twist rate of Smith & Wesson revolvers gave way to the 1:14-inch twist of Colt revolvers at 50 yards. This was because the long, slow-moving wadcutters were sometimes showing signs of instability as they passed through the long-distance targets.

Some enterprising competitors installed Colt Python barrels on their Smith & Wesson revolvers to get the best accuracy at 50 yards, thus creating what was known as a Smython or Smolt. Custom barrel makers started making 1:14-inch bull barrels for PPC competition, which worked well in getting the long wadcutters to fly straight and cut clean holes in the long-line targets. Some gunsmiths opted for even tighter twist rates of 1:12-inch and 1:10-inch, which worked as well as the 1:14-inch barrels, but the advantage was usually in the shooter, not the barrel.

[M-Tecs]

As M-Tec notes, the accuracy of Python and OMM revolvers was partly attributed to rifling twist rate when shooting wadcutters. I like my OMM very much.

NRA Shooting Illustrated: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/handgun-rifling-bullet-weights-barrel-twists/

Thanks for the additional details. The Colt Officers Model Match is a bucket list revolver of mine.

https://coltfever.com/officers-model/

Timely post here https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?460753-Twists-For-Hollow-Based-Boolits


Practical experience and empirical testing don't disappoint. S&W .38 Special revolvers with 18-3/4" twist of rifling show noticeable yaw in bullet holes firing wadcutter ammunition from 2 inch barrels. The 6-inch K-38 is accurate to 50 yards, but deteriorates beyond that. A Colt Python or Officer's Model Match with 14" twist is clearly better beyond 50 yards.

But a Bob Day PPC revolver using a 10-inch twist 9mm barrel will group factory match wadcutters well to 100 yards. Bill Duncan wrote several articles in The Fouling Shot testing various HB and DEWC .38 Special bullets at 100 yards, the best loads maintaining 3-4 inch groups.

[Tatume]

Thanks for the additional details. The Colt Officers Model Match is a bucket list revolver of mine.

Mine is the Fifth Issue, which has the best sights and grips, in my opinion.

[txbirdman]

My own experience runs counter to those of CharGar and the Txbirdman. My first Blue Python was the most accurate factory revolver I have ever owned. It was no exaggeration to say that the S&W M-27-2 and the Ruger Security Six I owned then shot rings around the groups shot by the Python.

Alas, that happy state did not last. By the time I had 5,000 rounds through it, it was spitting like a redneck chewing tobacco. I had it re-timed, and it lasted about 6,000 rounds before it got sold and I bought a Bill Wilson M-10 PPC gun. That gun shot as well as the Python, maybe a smidge better, but it was not factory. I have three Pythons now, but they don't get shot much. I run to lighter guns now.

My comparison was based on 2 specific revolvers and Ihave no doubt the opposite results could occur given different guns. I will say that I wish I could buy that Python back for the amount I sold it for and then resell it in today’s market. As an investment I made a poor choice but I’m still happy with the S&W.

[black mamba]

I never had a Python as the wildly flared grips never fit my hand. I was fortunate enough to have handled a couple early ones, and they were just so darn smooth, but I have no idea how accurate they were. My most accurate is a Smith 629 Classic in 44 mag.

https://i.imgur.com/uCejtcf.jpg

[md8232]

I bought a new 4.25” Python this week. Looking at it with my borescope I see what looks like chatter around the lands starting 2” in from the muzzle and going back 1”.
I’ll call Colt on Monday to see what they want to do about it.

[nicholst55]

It seems that more than one manufacturer has a test range that is only 15 yards, mostly due to space constraints.

[md8232]

I bought a new 4.25” Python this week. Looking at it with my borescope I see what looks like chatter around the lands starting 2” in from the muzzle and going back 1”.
I’ll call Colt on Monday to see what they want to do about it.

Update, I spoke with Mike Heffron about this and he explained what I saw.
Not a big problem and I got to fire 50 rounds today.
Back to my backyard range tomorrow.

The Python is enjoyable, my shooting needs some work.

[Tatume]

Update, I spoke with Mike Heffron about this and he explained what I saw.

Please share.

[45workhorse]

I can get all 6 in the same hole with my Colt SAA 45...I just can't get a proof picture of the target! ... :bigsmyl2:

https://i.imgur.com/eIz15tlh.jpg

And, I thought I was the only one that had that problem.:bigsmyl2:

[dverna]

I agree with those who ridicule accuracy testing at 15 yards. If that is all you need, buy a Glock and save a bunch of money. (BTW I love my Glocks).

50 yards is where things get interesting.

As to twist rates, I had a M52 S&W Bullseye gun, and had a 1-10 twist Douglas barrel sleeved in it. At 50 yards it made about a 1/2" difference in groups. Actually, not sure if it was the faster twist or a better barrel. That gun would shoot!!!

[apen]

I bought one earlier this year. I shot some 140 XTPs at 50 yards the other day and it seems to shoot pretty good. It needs a solid black sight for target shooting though I think. I casted some Lee 148 WCs to load in .357 cases but haven’t gotten around to loading them yet. I was going to send it off to heffron for a trigger job but see he created some additional hoops to jump through with shipping so I’ll not be doing that.

https://i.imgur.com/FgdBc05.jpg

[Longfellow]

Well, a year and another Bullseye season gone since I asked about accuracy of this gun, and I haven't seen one new Python in any of the Harry Reeves, Service Revolver or DR matches; the firing line is still crowded with 14's, including mine. Add to this that there always seems to be one or more workmanship issues with just about every new firearm these days. Here, I would have liked to hear more about the machining "chatter" that one guy here experienced and also hear Heffron's reply. I haven't bought a brand new gun for any of the Bullseye stages, in ten years. I've come close, as I have with this new Python, but there appears to be too little quality control today. Good for pistolsmiths I guess. FYI in a 1960 issue of AR (about six years in to Python manufacture) there is an article in which a dozen or so top Bullseye shooters were asked about their respective equipment. For NRA centerfire, of those not using their 45's, there was one Python shooter and about three shooters using model 14's and an equal number using converted 38 supers. I think I'll just keep my money in the bank; there's little chance it seems that this new revolver will significantly reduce the 3.5 inch groups I'm currently getting out of my 14-3 at fifty yards (Ransom Rest). Thank you all for this lively exchange.

[dogdoc]

My new pythons are barrel chatter free but my new 6 inch anaconda has barrel chatter. I send the first on back and received another. The new one still has some chatter but not as bad. Catch is that it is a tack driver with no significant leading so I keep it. I still think the could do better especially for the price. My smiths do not have chatter.

[Longfellow]

Well it was only two months ago that I said I will likely never get one of these but two things happened which address the two concerns I have. Mike Herron posted a new entry in his blog that compared the accuracy of three revolvers; one of which was a new Python. He Ransom Rested them at 100 yards and the python came in at under two inches. It had his action job done so we don't really know how much of that work contributed to the incredible performance. The other thing was the introduction of the carbon steel / blued model. Now I'd like to find a smith for my new six inch Python who does NOT have a 1.5 year backlog. I've worked too hard on trigger control of my Bullseye guns, which all have 2.5 and 3.5pound triggers to ruin that muscle memory with a 6-7 pound trigger on this thing. Other than NVGW and C&S, and of course Herron, can anyone recommend a pistol smith who knows these new revolvers? If not I'm happy to shoot it left handed until I come up in Heffron's queue. Thanks.

[charlie b]

I never knew how lucky I was to have a decent gunsmith most my years, in two different towns. One died and the other retired. Then I found out how rare the good ones are.