Accurate powder measures

[Longfellow]

My Redding #3 throws small pistol charges with a variation of .15 grains (total potential spread of .3 gr) which the folks at Reading say is exactly what one should expect. Does anyone know of a measure that throws a smaller variation? The above results are with Bullseye.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Longfellow,

You need to remember that your powder measure is throwing a bulk measurement and the problem is in your powder.
Personally I always throw a light charge into my scales pan, then dribble it up to my desired charge.

AntiqueSledMan.

[lotech]

I've used a Redding Match Grade with the pistol insert for more than thirty years. It's plenty accurate for small charges, but I'd think the #3 would work about as well with a pistol insert.

[winelover]

Yep, the RCBS Chargemaster is what you want.

Mechanical measures don't do well with flake powders and even more finnicky with stick powders.

Winelover

[Longfellow]

How fast can one expect to reload with an electric measure? I’ve no experience.

[winelover]

They way I reload using a single stage press, is by the time I seat the bullet, the next charge is pretty much ready.......... depending on caliber. BTW, fast is not conducive to accuracy.

Winelover

[Longfellow]

That’s perfect. It seems as if the specific arm motions used when there is an electronic dispenser involved, will work well with a turret press also. You can move fairly quickly with a setup like this.
Thanks.

[Willbird]

I wonder how well the sliding cavity types of measure do. Hornady just started making a super accurate scale that might be nice to do some actual statistics on powder measure accuracy. There no doubt is a cavity dia and length ratio that works out best for a given powder. The Star loaders used a sliding cavity design and the cam that worked it had "bumps" on it to slightly rattle the slide in a portion of the stroke. Star also changed the height of the cavity for larger powder charges.

https://exhaustnotes.us/blog/index.php/2020/10/17/the-star-powder-dispenser/

[hades]

For what it's worth, in my opinion a nice powder measure is superior to an electronic dispenser. Electronics get weird, take batteries, or need to be plugged in, scale drifts, ect. I'm all about a nice balance beam, powder measure and trickler, (if weighing each charge).

The first time I watched my uncles chargemaster dispense a charge I was dumbfounded on how slow it was. I could easily throw, and trickle up faster. (Yes I know that's a head to head comparison and the chargemaster would more than beat me in the long run because it dispenses, while you go back to the press and seat)


All that being said, I could check what my older RCBS uniflow does, but with bullseye I'm thinking it would be a fair amount tighter than +/- 0.15gr. That seems like alot to me with a nice measuring powder like bullseye.

Could take the measure apart and clean and polish, might tighten up that spread some.

[dale2242]

The best set up to dispense powder, in my opinion, Is an electronic dispenser.
As far as mechanical dispensers, I prefer thee RCBS Lil Dandy for small charges of fluffy powder.
I can keep my charges within acceptable limits with the LD.

[15meter]

I'd be interested to know which chamber is being used, target weight and scale being used to check.

I never liked small charges with my 3BR with the rifle chamber. Picked up a pistol chamber for it and it made a considerable difference. I try and fit the powder measure to the job.

3BR with the small chamber for the under 10 grain loads, the BR-30 for the 10-45 grain loads and back to the 3BR with the large chamber for the big charges.

That seems to get me less variation in dropped charges.

Dropping tiny charges with a rifle chamber in either the 3BR or the BR-30 never seemed to work. Dropping almost max charges with the BR-30 didn't seem to work as well as the 3BR in it's middle range.

Some of it is dependent on powder type AND vintage. Just loaded up a hundred M1 service rounds with pre-zip code IMR-4895. I had to throw light and trickle up on every one. Could not get it to meter consistently. Same load with new 4895, I can throw with the BR-30 and get almost no variation.

Perhaps if I had done the RCBS trick of spreading the powder out in a pan and putting a 100 watt bulb over the pan to dry out the powder it may have metered better.

And I've tried Hollywood, Lyman, Hornady and RCBS powder measures to get to what works for me.

[Shawlerbrook]

If you need precise powder drops( which I strive for), like antiquesledman, I drop light and trickle to my desired charge.

[Sig]

I know my RCBS & Hornady mechanical measures do better than .15gns with the pistol rotors & stems installed.

[David2011]

The Lil Dandy is excellent. I’ve had one for over 40 years. The SAECO, long out of production, is the best full size dispenser I’ve used. If you find one, buy it and if it was expensive, worry about the cost later. It’s far more consistent than the RCBS Uniflow and after a while you’ll realize it was a bargain.

The Dillon progressive measures are surprisingly consistent as well.

[stubshaft]

For small charges of Bullseye I still use my Bonanza Pistol measure with their rotors. Putting an internal baffle in the reservoir to insure that the powder column is consistent helps too.

[kungfustyle]

I get great results from my Uniflow with a pistol drum and micro-meter. I believe the heft of the powder measure has a great deal to do with it. Most of the time the measure is right on. Consistency is the key, if you do some thing different, it will show up in the powder weight. One trick is to keep a funnel with powder in the powder tube so there is always the same weight/amount of powder in the tube.

[pworley1]

For charges under 5 grains I use one of the pistol measures, Little Dandy Pacific Hornady etc, that has the rotor for the charge I want.

[Shawlerbrook]

Ditto on one of the Pistol measures for small charges. The Lyman 55 is also good if you adjust the chambers appropriately.

[gunther]

Look at Redding's online catalog. If 25 or 30 grains of powder will do what you want to do, Their 10x or 30BR measures will work just fine.

[dankathytc]

Depends entirely on the powder. I load up to 20 calibers with approx 22 different powders. They all vary. Some are superb in my Redding BR3, some are superb in my RCBS Chargemaster. I run both depending on what my load is at the time.

[megasupermagnum]

How fast can one expect to reload with an electric measure? I’ve no experience.


Mine was about 15-20 seconds for a charge. I also question the accuracy of them. They probably aren't that much better than plus or minus .15 grains you already have if at all. Where the electric dispenser shine is for a lot of people is shooting big stick powder in rifle cartridges.

In my opinion a .3 grain spread from a mechanical powder measure and flake powder is pretty good. I'm happy with that myself. If that isn't good enough, then there is nothing that can beat a mechanical scale and trickling it yourself.

[dverna]

Do not overthink it. Most pistols are not that accurate and most pistol shooters are not that good.

Weighing and trickling powder charges for pistol ammunition is a waste of time. And it is likely a waste of time for most rifle ammunition.

If your load needs a +/- .10 gr deviation limit to shoot accurately, you have a poor load.

BTW, I did a test with the new Lee measure using Clean Shot. 150 rounds that I pulled because I was worried I may have double charged some cases as I was having problems dialing in a new Lee press. Every round was loaded on the Lee 6000. IIRC, there were just a few rounds with more than .1 gr. deviation and none over .2 gr. Target weight was 4.1 gr. I was impressed.

[doulos]

Like somebody already stated it really is hard to have one measure be superbly accurate with every type of powder in my experience. I just did a short test with a new RCBS Uniflow 3. I dropped 18 charges in a row of H110 at 19.1 grains before one was off .1. Thats great but its a very easy powder to meter. And consistency in operation is really important. Its good with smaller charges of Unique but not like with that H110. Ive had good luck with Uniflows with the appropriate small pistol chamber for pistol. But I dont weigh every charge. Only about every 10th. The Dillons were surprisingly good dispensing Unique when running them on my 550. Whenever I did a check it was with in a .1 or s .2.most of the time. Which was plenty good for the light .45ACP loads I use. Its just not necessary to be exact with the style of shooting I do with certain calibers. If Im using a .44mag for hunting those loads are trickled up to exact duplicates.
I dont think its realistic to expect these style powder measures to be stellar with every powder. Some powders you will be hard pressed to have 20 drops range + or - .3 from the target from even an expensive Harrels. One test showed the CHD powder measure hung right in there with the Harrels and bested it in some categories. But who ever operates the measure is a unknown variable.
The OP stated his Redding was dropping about a .15 variance. Thats not that unusual. I say make sure you use the pistol drum, a baffle, and consistent technique. All of those things help. You are probably in the ball park of what you can expect. Make sure your have that stuff down before buying a new measure. Redding makes good stuff.

[Tim357]

Do not overthink it. Most pistols are not that accurate and most pistol shooters are not that good.

Weighing and trickling powder charges for pistol ammunition is a waste of time. And it is likely a waste of time for most rifle ammunition.

If your load needs a +/- .10 gr deviation limit to shoot accurately, you have a poor load.

BTW, I did a test with the new Lee measure using Clean Shot. 150 rounds that I pulled because I was worried I may have double charged some cases as I was having problems dialing in a new Lee press. Every round was loaded on the Lee 6000. IIRC, there were just a few rounds with more than .1 gr. deviation and none over .2 gr. Target weight was 4.1 gr. I was impressed.

This right here^^^^^^^^

[GunsandCoffee]

Agree with the above posts - don't get wrapped around the axle with your pistol powder charges. Hyper-accuracy doesn't overcome the inherent variables involved in pistol shooting.

Find a good load and spend more time behind the gun - you're better off improving your shooting skillset rather than obsessing over .10 grain deviations.

I use a Harrell Schuetzen for pistol loads - not cheap, but an heirloom-quality tool that is a joy to use.

[Ithaca Gunner]

My Redding #3 throws small pistol charges with a variation of .15 grains (total potential spread of .3 gr) which the folks at Reading say is exactly what one should expect. Does anyone know of a measure that throws a smaller variation? The above results are with Bullseye.

For small charges, (pistol) I use a LEE Auto Disc Pro on a LEE expander die for specific caliber. It's very accurate with small charges, in most cases it'll drop spot on or much closer than about anything else. Two take aways though, A-you need to use a LEE expander die, (available by themselves) and B-the discs are non-adjustable, like using an RCBS ''Little Dandy'' (you may want a charge of 4.5gr. of Bullseye, but the closest disc might be 4.3gr. or 4.6gr.). The expanding operation activates the measure automaticly on the press.

I have a Redding 3BR ''Match'' measure I use for rifle, I use the baffle near the bottom of the measure and get WAY more consistant throws than without the baffle. It keeps a constant pressure on your powder as it drops in the measure. You should be using a small drum plus a baffle for the most even charges. If you don't have the baffle, they're $7.00 from Midway.

[jetinteriorguy]

For small charges, (pistol) I use a LEE Auto Disc Pro on a LEE expander die for specific caliber. It's very accurate with small charges, in most cases it'll drop spot on or much closer than about anything else. Two take aways though, A-you need to use a LEE expander die, (available by themselves) and B-the discs are non-adjustable, like using an RCBS ''Little Dandy'' (you may want a charge of 4.5gr. of Bullseye, but the closest disc might be 4.3gr. or 4.6gr.). The expanding operation activates the measure automaticly on the press.

I have a Redding 3BR ''Match'' measure I use for rifle, I use the baffle near the bottom of the measure and get WAY more consistant throws than without the baffle. It keeps a constant pressure on your powder as it drops in the measure. You should be using a small drum plus a baffle for the most even charges. If you don't have the baffle, they're $7.00 from Midway.
You can adjust the cavities in the Lee Pro Disc die by reaming them with a tapered reamer until they drop the amount you need. Just take it a little at a time until you reach the proper size. I work up my loads using my normal powder measure and then once I’ve determined it I just customize a cavity to match and then mark it and keep it with the loaded ammo in the bin so it’s there when I need it. I do this with several different loads and pistol calibers.

[R-71]

Lee auto disc has been the only measure I have loaded ammo with since 1986. They work great!

[Green Frog]

It would appear that we are headed in the same direction here… it’s necessary to match the measuring tool with the powder with one’s technique. I find that for small charges of pistol powder (like Bullseye or W231) for pistols I do best which fixed rotors such as the Little Dandy. At the opposite extreme, when loading Black Powder in 20-50 grain amounts, dippers and adjustable volumetric meters like the Lyman 55 do duty for me pretty well.

Froggie

[ebb]

Most of the BR shooters that load with a thrower use a Harrells, Guns and Coffee is correct they are a beautiful piece of workmanship.

[RCL]

I prefer to weigh all my rifle charges so I drop light and trickle up.
On most of my pistol loads I just use the Little Dandy and it is very consistent.

[Green Frog]

Most of the BR shooters that load with a thrower use a Harrells, Guns and Coffee is correct they are a beautiful piece of workmanship.

^^^This^^^ Going back to the early modern days (how’s that for an oxymoron?) of Benchrest after WW II, Homer Culver developed a replacement rotor for the old Ideal #5/#55 measures. This, along with its clones, “ruled the roost” in benchrest with its only real competition from Belding & Mull’s Visible loader, especially with custom micrometer drop tubes. This was the state of affairs until Harrell took the concept to its peak by building a micrometer based rotary measure, available in multiple sizes, that we see today. I still like some measures (read “Little Dandy”j for tiny charges of some powders (Bullseye, W231, etc) and others for oddball powders like the now discontinued 4759 (think “sticks and twigs”) which just fall in the right configuration to match that powder.

I would contend that there is no single measure that is best for all charges of all powders… that’s why I have a shell full of them. Slide based or rotary, different measures for different applications.

Froggie

[pertnear]

I don't have any experience with one, but according to benchresters, Harrell's is the most accurate powder measure you can get.

https://www.harrellsprecision.com/products/premium-powder-measure-1

[Walks]

I'm interested in any measure that will reliably drop a 1.0 grain of Bullseye. The only 2 measures I trust to do that are the old Lyman 55 or the Hornady L-N-L with small .pistol micrometer .
I tried to throw a light charge of Unique with the RCBS Little Dandy when I first got it some 40+ yrs ago. Didn't work well. I put it down to inexperience with a new tool. Have NEVER had a problem since. But have never thrown a charge lighter then 4.7grs with Unique either.

A positive repeatable action is what's needed with a mechanical powder measure.

[Eddie Southgate]

No. Unless you are loading over max already you couldn't possibly tell the difference that small amount will make. In the last 57 years I have dipped way yonder more handgun loads than I have ever throwed through a measure and never noticed any gain using a measure. I use the 8 or 10 or so measures I own for rifle loads . Straight from the measure for hunting loads , measure set to throw light and the dribble up for target loads.

[jetinteriorguy]

I'm interested in any measure that will reliably drop a 1.0 grain of Bullseye. The only 2 measures I trust to do that are the old Lyman 55 or the Hornady L-N-L with small .pistol micrometer .
I tried to throw a light charge of Unique with the RCBS Little Dandy when I first got it some 40+ yrs ago. Didn't work well. I put it down to inexperience with a new tool. Have NEVER had a problem since. But have never thrown a charge lighter then 4.7grs with Unique either.

A positive repeatable action is what's needed with a mechanical powder measure.
You’ve peaked my curiosity, what are you loading that only requires 1.0 gr of Bullseye?

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've been using the newer LEE Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure, Using the small drum, getting 0.0 deviation for 3.0 grains Titegroup and 3.2 grains Universal, I weigh single charges, then weigh 10 charges combined, consistently getting 30.0 grains for 10 3.0 grains of TiteGroup and 32 grains for 10 charges of 3.2 grains of Universal, charges weighed on RCBS 505 to set-up and check powder measure. I have Bonanza fixed, RCBS Uni-flow, the older Lee Perfect, but none have matched the Lee DELUXE Perfect Powder Measure for consistency.

[ebb]

No matter how good a Harrels is it takes some practice to get it right. I surprises me that so many things in shooting have a learning curve. How do we get by, the liberals always comment on how stupid we are.

[Green Frog]

I'm interested in any measure that will reliably drop a 1.0 grain of Bullseye. The only 2 measures I trust to do that are the old Lyman 55 or the Hornady L-N-L with small .pistol micrometer .
I tried to throw a light charge of Unique with the RCBS Little Dandy when I first got it some 40+ yrs ago. Didn't work well. I put it down to inexperience with a new tool. Have NEVER had a problem since. But have never thrown a charge lighter then 4.7grs with Unique either.

A positive repeatable action is what's needed with a mechanical powder measure.

Walks,
For the very tiny cat sneeze loads of Bullseye yo mention, the smallest Little Dandy rotor, #00 might get down to where you want. With that small a charge I’d probably weigh each charge though, and as stated previously, I have a shelf full of measures including several Ideal #5s as well as Lyman #55s, but that little charge means small variations become very significant!
Froggie

[jetinteriorguy]

I've been using the newer LEE Deluxe Perfect Powder Measure, Using the small drum, getting 0.0 deviation for 3.0 grains Titegroup and 3.2 grains Universal, I weigh single charges, then weigh 10 charges combined, consistently getting 30.0 grains for 10 3.0 grains of TiteGroup and 32 grains for 10 charges of 3.2 grains of Universal, charges weighed on RCBS 505 to set-up and check powder measure. I have Bonanza fixed, RCBS Uni-flow, the older Lee Perfect, but none have matched the Lee DELUXE Perfect Powder Measure for consistency.
This has been my experience as well. I work up pistol loads using the Deluxe PPM and then customize a cavity for the Pro Disc as per my previous post. For rifle I work up my load then set one of the plastic drums for this load, mark it and then just use it for future loads. Easy peasy.

[lx2008]

i purchased Harrell`s premium a few yrs ago...best i ever used. imo it throws stick just as accurate as ball and it and throws just as easy.

[jmorris]

.3 with BE seems like a lot of variation. Heck my Dillon measures throw powders like that to the tenth.

I can catch those stepped cases with the PC die though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EU9deSKm48

Extruded “stick” powders are where one generally needs a better measure, to hold to a tenth.