Large Pistol Primers in 30-30 instead of Large Rifle Primers?

[VariableRecall]

I'm loading for 30-30 WCF. I've got Large Rifle primers handy, but they are the 7.62 NATO kind and they are a coinflip whether they go off or not, as they are too firm to use reliably.

Could I use Large Pistol Primers instead for 30-30? It's a relatively low pressure rifle cartridge, and I may be able to just skirt by using them.

Using factory 30-30, I've noticed complete reliability with my primer strikes. On the other hand with the 7.62 primers, I've had far too many light strikes to use them again in the future.

[mdi]

A couple thoughts; large pistol primers are .008" shorter than large rifle primers, maybe FTF results. Large pistol primer cups are often thinner than large rifle primer cups and chamber pressure can lead to pierced or blown out primers...

[schutzen-jager]

i have used them in the past in light cast bullet loads with no problems at all results might vary with different brands of primers + the weapon being used - try them under safe conditions -

[TurnipEaterDown]

LP primers can manage 35-50,000 psi fine if the pin is proper contour, protrusion, etc, and the HS is good.
Have multiple guns where many thousands of rounds have been fired thusly w/o incident whatsoever.

If the HS is long, and the primer backs out, then followed up by the case sliding back and riveting the primer (as often happens when someone "sees" high pressure), then the LP may be a poor choice as the fold will be sharper at the 'rivet' edge and can fail easier.

[VariableRecall]

i have used them in the past in light cast bullet loads with no problems at all results might vary with different brands of primers + the weapon being used - try them under safe conditions -

I've got CCI Large Pistol Primers, and they have never done me any wrong. I'm planning on using the load with Cast bullets and slightly underpowered loads, so I probably have a decent chance of getting away with a test-batch until I can hunt down some proper rifle primers that don't need a sledgehammer to set off.

[MUSTANG]

Doing this in 308 Winchester. Comments and results see: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?454549-Using-Large-Pistol-Primers-in-Place-of-Large-Rifle-Primers-(308-Win)

[Texas by God]

I’ve used them for cast bullet loads in 30-30, 30-40, and 38-55 with no drama whatsoever.
A Mauser, a Krag and a 94 Winchester were used with no pierced primers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[racepres]

The Pistol Primers will probably back out on a well used Winchester M94..as Slightly longer headspace is Common on them.. Check the min-max, on a 94... it is Generous... I have never considered it a Problem that they back out...except that the shoulder may be bing pushed back on ea firing..I long seat cast Boolits to just close action, to Fireform... then mark the ctgs that I enlarge the flash holes on...trying to minimize primer backing out.. still gonna set shoulder back some tho....

[eastbank]

i would only use them if out of large rifle primers and realy had to use them.

[stubshaft]

I use them regularly for light cast bullet loads in a lot of my rifle cartridges.

[lar45]

Large Pistol primers work great in cast rifle loads.

[Soundguy]

Sr and sp are same size...lp are shorter than lr for some stupid reason. I wouldn't swap those.

[P Flados]

I have used lots of LPP in 30-30 and 30-30 based rounds

[Krag1902]

last year I used LP primers exclusively in my M54 .30 WCF. I did this to conserve the LR primers, It was a wise move from several standpoints.

[toallmy]

I use lg pistol primers in light cast rifle loading quite often without incident , I haven't tried them in full power loads though .

[mdi]

An aside for the OP. Being a forum that allows everyone to post their answers/opinions, you are going to get answers from "it's not a good idea" to "I do it all the time problem free". Personally I would not use large pistol primers in any large rifle primer application, but being a "jes wanna know" kinda guy I have experimented with many substitutions. One of my last was using large rife primers in large pistol applications. I used large rifle primers in some 45 ACP handloads. Cleaned primer pockets well (aggressively) and maybe scraped some off the pocket bottom, seated "extra firm" with a ram prime and I got about 95% success in my stock 1911 Will I make this an ongoing part of my loading method? Nope.

[MUSTANG]

An aside for the OP. Being a forum that allows everyone to post their answers/opinions, you are going to get answers from "it's not a good idea" to "I do it all the time problem free". Personally I would not use large pistol primers in any large rifle primer application, but being a "jes wanna know" kinda guy I have experimented with many substitutions. One of my last was using large rife primers in large pistol applications. I used large rifle primers in some 45 ACP handloads. Cleaned primer pockets well (aggressively) and maybe scraped some off the pocket bottom, seated "extra firm" with a ram prime and I got about 95% success in my stock 1911 Will I make this an ongoing part of my loading method? Nope.

mdi's "Substitution" is problematic. The Large Rifle Primer Cup stands .008 taller than does a Large Pistol Primer. This means; placing a Large Rifle Primer into a .45acp or other pistol case will result in a primer standing "Proud" from the base of the case itself. Potential for failure to chamber, Irish primer on "Slide forward operation/or not going into battery, or a slam fire. By "Seating Hard" to achieve a Large Rifle Primer in a Large Pistol Primer pocket; crushing of the Primer is probable, which could be reason for the 5% failure to fire mentioned.

Seating a Large Pistol into a Large Rifle Primer pocket goes the other way. The Firing pin MUST travel further to impact the primer and crush the mix between the Primer Anvil and the Primer Cup; so some rifles may bot have the Firing Pin travel length - or sufficient force when the Firing Pin impacts a Large Pistol Primer in a Large Rifle primer pocket.

[Castaway]

I use LPP’s in some of my black powder loads. I use two bullet moulds, one for precision shooting, the other is for hunting with its flat meplat. The LPP’s are loaded into the hunting loads. To offset the height difference, I cut a strip of target paper the width of which fits under the shell holder. The primer is seated normally, the paper cuts crisply and the height difference between LRP’s and LPP’s is offset. With black powder, I can get away from any issues regarding a reduced spark because of the paper. Loads shoot consistently and I save my LRP’s for longer range work. As an aside, older rifles with softer breech faces may in peen around the firing pin hole if loaded with LPP’s due to the head start the primer has after ignition.

[Texas by God]

And you can use a small rifle or pistol primer INSIDE of a Gutted LP primer(with the firing pin dent ironed out)- it worked when I tried it.
Cats can be skinned in a few ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Electrod47]

I use them regularly for light cast bullet loads in a lot of my rifle cartridges.

Me too. In a Winchester 94, 30/30 and a H&R 45/70 and brass cased 410 buckshot.

[mdi]

mdi's "Substitution" is problematic. The Large Rifle Primer Cup stands .008 taller than does a Large Pistol Primer. This means; placing a Large Rifle Primer into a .45acp or other pistol case will result in a primer standing "Proud" from the base of the case itself. Potential for failure to chamber, Irish primer on "Slide forward operation/or not going into battery, or a slam fire. By "Seating Hard" to achieve a Large Rifle Primer in a Large Pistol Primer pocket; crushing of the Primer is probable, which could be reason for the 5% failure to fire mentioned.

Seating a Large Pistol into a Large Rifle Primer pocket goes the other way. The Firing pin MUST travel further to impact the primer and crush the mix between the Primer Anvil and the Primer Cup; so some rifles may bot have the Firing Pin travel length - or sufficient force when the Firing Pin impacts a Large Pistol Primer in a Large Rifle primer pocket.

Hmm. Yes the large rifle primer is .008" taller than a large pistol primer, as I mentioned in post #2. In my post about my experiment you will see I made mention to a hard cleaning (scraping of the pocket bottom) possibly removing some metal, deepening the pocket, and "seating hard" alluded to making sure the cup was below flush. I made sure none were "standing proud"

I don't mind correction/criticism about my posts as I surely don't know everything, but ignoring what I actually said and quoting my posts and correcting something I didn't say is uncalled for. If you want to quote me, please make sure the quote is about something actually posted. Perhaps I should "dumb down" my posts to make sure there are no reading, interpretation problems?

I researched all primers in the '70s (waaaay pre web and used texts I found in the library, no "internet wisdom". One of my first "I wanna know" experiments, circa 1970 or so, was taking apart a primer to see exactly how they work and I learned that a primer must be seated all the way to the bottom of the pocket with the anvil solidly against the bottom) and started reloading large pistol primers in about mid '90s and large rifle primers in early 2000, so I am somewhat familiar with many primers and types. My post was about an experiment I conducted. Not a recommendation...

[mdi]

And you can use a small rifle or pistol primer INSIDE of a Gutted LP primer(with the firing pin dent ironed out)- it worked when I tried it.
Cats can be skinned in a few ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

YES! Another reloader thinking "outside the box". I once ran out of 209 shotshell primers. I poked the spent primer out of the battery cup and seated some large pistol primers. Tried about 20 and all went bang and got me through until some 209s showed up...

This is just something I did, not a recommendation...

[racepres]

YES! Another reloader thinking "outside the box". I once ran out of 209 shotshell primers. I poked the spent primer out of the battery cup and seated some large pistol primers. Tried about 20 and all went bang and got me through until some 209s showed up...

This is just something I did, not a recommendation...
Just did that the other day... worked fine...

[atr]

I have successfully used LP primers in my 30-30 Savage 340....never had a problem. I even tried them in my 35 Whelen, using GI brass and again no problem. Full J-loads in each case.
best
atr

[jeffsmith13]

After reading the book “forty years with the 45-70” I tried a load in my handi rifle with large pistol primers in 45-70 brass and it was good to go.

[nanuk]

Hmm. Yes the large rifle primer is .008" taller than a large pistol primer, as I mentioned in post #2. In my post about my experiment you will see I made mention to a hard cleaning (scraping of the pocket bottom) possibly removing some metal, deepening the pocket, and "seating hard" alluded to making sure the cup was below flush. I made sure none were "standing proud"

Possibly? removing metal? Alluding to?

I don't mind correction/criticism about my posts as I surely don't know everything, but ignoring what I actually said and quoting my posts and correcting something I didn't say is uncalled for. If you want to quote me, please make sure the quote is about something actually posted. Perhaps I should "dumb down" my posts to make sure there are no reading, interpretation problems?

quoting your actual post for you.

An aside for the OP. Being a forum that allows everyone to post their answers/opinions, you are going to get answers from "it's not a good idea" to "I do it all the time problem free". Personally I would not use large pistol primers in any large rifle primer application, but being a "jes wanna know" kinda guy I have experimented with many substitutions. One of my last was using large rife primers in large pistol applications. I used large rifle primers in some 45 ACP handloads. Cleaned primer pockets well (aggressively) and maybe scraped some off the pocket bottom, seated "extra firm" with a ram prime and I got about 95% success in my stock 1911 Will I make this an ongoing part of my loading method? Nope.

nowhere did you mention anything about about primers seating flush/below flush, thus Mustang's warning. Slamfires are real, and can be hazardous. Something we all need to be aware of.
Also, "Extra Firm" seating can indeed cause FTFs. I have proven that to myself.

I researched all primers in the '70s (waaaay pre web and used texts I found in the library, no "internet wisdom". One of my first "I wanna know" experiments, circa 1970 or so, was taking apart a primer to see exactly how they work and I learned that a primer must be seated all the way to the bottom of the pocket with the anvil solidly against the bottom) and started reloading large pistol primers in about mid '90s and large rifle primers in early 2000, so I am somewhat familiar with many primers and types. My post was about an experiment I conducted. Not a recommendation...

Good for you. I have always enjoyed reading about those who "lead the way" during the PreWeb years. We learned a LOT, and still have a lot to learn. Thank you MDI for doing your experiments.

Please, don't get your panties in a knot, just because someone else wants to add caution, so we all can learn and learn SAFELY.

this forum is going to hell and it saddens me, as there is so much information yet to be proffered.
I've had to block folks because my panties got so knotted up, I couldn't sit!!


Right now, up here in Canada, LR primers are almost non-existant, and when available, folks are asking $1.00 each!!!

Crazy times!
I'm always on the lookout for alternatives.

[dondiego]

A lot of guys on here need to get rid of those panties and switch to boxers or loose Fruit of the Loom's!

[Shawlerbrook]

Got some loads from over on Marlinowners using Magnum large Pistol primers with light cast boolit 30 30 loads. Haven’t tried them yet.

[crackers]

If we get over the irrelevance of .008" short, we find the same operating pressure as the .44 mag. That's without bringing up all the Contender combos over the years.

[Texas by God]

I’m currently using CCI SPM primers in my .218 Bee. No noticeable drama whatsoever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VariableRecall]

I’m currently using CCI SPM primers in my .218 Bee. No noticeable drama whatsoever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What kind of pressure does .218 generate? I'd assume that since SPP's can handle around 30-32k PSI in some higher pressure pistol calibers, you should have good results in lower pressure applications.

[farmbif]

dang, $1.00 each for large rifle primers. if I could get someone to actually pay that much there would be a new to me Cessna in my future. I put several thousand primers in an auction a little over a year ago including new bricks of cci lg rifle and lg rifle magnum and they sold for about $100 some cci 41's went to about $120

[VariableRecall]

dang, $1.00 each for large rifle primers. if I could get someone to actually pay that much there would be a new to me Cessna in my future. I put several thousand primers in an auction a little over a year ago including new bricks of cci lg rifle and lg rifle magnum and they sold for about $100 some cci 41's went to about $120

Unfortunately, I didn't start reloading until mid-2020 as a youngin reloader, so I've never known a $40 a brick price tag for primers. I think that part of the issue, besides the huge demand for reloading supplies, is the fact that a great deal more people today are reloading such as myself. I've been scrounging and saving for primers ever since I've started. Maybe someday we all can have any many primers as we need, but that probably won't happen for a while.

[dondiego]

Unfortunately, I didn't start reloading until mid-2020 as a youngin reloader, so I've never known a $40 a brick price tag for primers. I think that part of the issue, besides the huge demand for reloading supplies, is the fact that a great deal more people today are reloading such as myself. I've been scrounging and saving for primers ever since I've started. Maybe someday we all can have any many primers as we need, but that probably won't happen for a while.

I have never paid $40 for a 1K brick of primers!

[charlie b]

When was the last time you bought any? :)

I paid more than $40/k for CCI BR-2 primers before COVID.

[gwpercle]

Keep the pressure of your 30-30 loads reasonable ...

Seat the primers untill they are all the way down in the primer pocket ...
seat them untill they bottom out in the pocket , if your rifle's fireing pin is long enough ...the slightly shorter pistol primers should not be a problem ... Test fire a few !

Gary

[dondiego]

When was the last time you bought any? :)

I paid more than $40/k for CCI BR-2 primers before COVID.

I bought over 50,000 primers a year or 2 before covid.

[Idaho Mule]

Variable, Use the LPP. They will be fine, just as TBG and many others have said. Glad to see you are continuing down the hand loading path.

[VariableRecall]

I have never paid $40 for a 1K brick of primers!

I suppose we all have myths and legends, I guess I've just lulled myself into the "way back when" fantasy like where gas was $2 to fill your tank and that sort of thing.
Despite the world being squeezed for primers, at least the Internet allows for more options to get some!

[Gobeyond]

I use them. No problem. But not with max loads.

[nanuk]

Local auction house....
http s://extremerangeoutfitters.com/products/primers-match-magnum-lrg-rifle-x-200-01043011?_***=41&_sid=f431ba3e9&_ss=r