microgroove myths still abound

[farmbif]

I had a chance yesterday to browse though a local gun shop and got into a conversation with a fellow shooting enthusiast. we started talking about how to get components for the not so common calibers and casting bullets for them. this guy I'm guessing doesn't visit here and was saying you cant shoot cast bullets in marlins microgroove barrels because the grooves will fill with lead. he was absolutely sure about it. and he wasn't a youngster but a retired guy who has been hunting all his life. I tried to straighten him out and explained how sizing bullets a couple thousandths oversize , using a good lube, a good alloy and a gas check bullet design, keeping velocity at 30-30 or 35 rem speeds will allow him to shoot all the cast bullets he desires in just about any rifle microgroove or not.

[centershot]

farmbif, you did your part to pass on the knowledge, sometimes opinions die hard. It is frustrating to those of us who are actually doing it to hear the unfounded opinions of those who insist "You can't do that!". I had a casual conversation one day with a friend who runs a local gun shop, retired LEO and avid pistol shooter. When I told him I was shooting cast bullets at 2000 fps from my 30-30 he was incredulous! "That's not possible!" he said. He absolutely insisted that you couldn't shoot cast at that speed and certainly couldn't obtain any accuracy. I carefully explained the process to him, but to no avail. Sometimes, opinions just die hard......

[TXTad]

I think people often just believe the first thing they read and then cannot change their mind.

[TurnipEaterDown]

I think people often just believe the first thing they read and then cannot change their mind.

"I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken on that." is something I say w/ sarcasm from time to time...

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Keeps the price of microgroves and lead a hair lower…

[dondiego]

Didn't Marlin have .22 LR guns with Microgroove rifling. Did they fill up with lead?

[Martin Luber]

Opinions unbiased by fact or actual observations....

Same deal in Pistol, "can't shoot soft swaged, they will lead up your gun"

It's a reloading fault from cases sized small, and improperly expanded, in order to hold jacketed bullets.
They then swage the soft lead during seating...can't argue with theses people, they have to be right...

[mdi]

Some excellent posts above. I'll try to remember TXTad's and Mr. Luber's posts.

Often Lee Haters are the best at forming opinions, pseudo facts, from what "they" said. Stubbornness, and fear of looking stupid also adds to the lifespan of old wives' tales and internet wisdom. Several times I've had to just smile, say thanks and walk away...

[schutzen-jager]

yes Marlin has used micro groove in .22's for many decades -
rember [ it must be true if it was on the internet ] ! -
.

[35 Rem]

Thank goodness cast bullets aren't any good for anything but making noise. :-D If the truth were ever to be known to the general shooting public. everything we want and need to make and shoot our own bullets would be expensive as hen's teeth or unavailable due to high demand.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have three Marlons with Micro -Grove barrels. One is in 44 Mag. I shot several rounds in it using the same bullets I used in my pistol. The barrel looked like a clogged sewer pipe' I finally got the lead out and mentioned what happened to a friend. He said, try these. The bullets he gave me were sized .430. After shooting them the barrel was clean as new. Size matters.

[15meter]

My youngest nephew to father after a particularly silly pronouncement on a long forgotten subject:

"It never ceases to amaze me how you can completely ignore all evidence that contradicts your preconceived prejudices."

As the brother-in-law was making the speech, every person sitting at the table was sitting slack jawed at how preposterous his ideas were.

After his son's statement, he doubled down, making an even more ludicrous statement.

No one was going to tell him he was wrong. He's 81 now and that has been going on for the 50 years I have known him.

[Recycled bullet]

My favorite is when the gun shop employee or gun range safety officer tells me that what I am already successfully doing with cast bullets in handguns and rifles is not physically possible and that I'll hurt the gun irreparably if I haven't already done so...

Ok it's time to walk away why would I even try to convince someone who's already made up their mind that I am wrong?


I'll tell them one time the facts, just one time, then anything further is on them.

Ignorance is simply a state of not knowing, which can be corrected through education.

I can lead the lamb to the library.

I have not the effort remaining to encourage him to read.
If they start eating the crayons that's on them too.

[gloob]

If you want to be successful at most things in life, you can't allow logic to stop you. The richest and most powerful people in our world have little use for logic. You would never be a successful politician, lawyer, marketer, or any ideological figure or cult leader if you let logic in. "My truth" is not really possible when you bother to worry about "the truth."

The world as we know it couldn't function if too many people cared about "the truth." It would be too ugly and unbearable and obviously unfair and unjust in too many ways. There must be wiggle room for "alternate truth," so these genes or mindset will carry on potentially as long as we do. It's not always useful in all matters, it's just going to there.

[Soundguy]

I see the same at the range. There will be an obvious long time reloader shooting rifle..seeing me shoot lead..try to warn me that you can't shoot lead in rifle..only pistols... To which I reply... Not hardened, well sized, gas checked lead. But they won't hear any of it. They have been loading that single cartridge for years and know nothing other than their 1 dialed in load.

[Beaverhunter2]

I've been told the same nonsense about cast in ARs. I get 2300 fps with PCGCs in a 6.5 Grendel and over 2000 with .350 Legend. Hunting level accuracy and no leading- barrel or gas block.

I've also been told I made a mistake buying a ported 1895M because I can't shoot cast out of a ported barrel. Of course that was the only way they came when they first came out. Mine hasn't seen a j-word in 15 years. Still shooting great.

It's always preferable to have these conversations at the range..Because then they can see your targets! :wink::cast_boolits:

Oh yeah! And then there's polygonal rifling. Shhhh! Don't tell my USP45! All I've put through it in 10 years are 252gr SWCs and 230gr TCs.

[ioon44]

I have shot Hi-Tek coated cast bullets in my 444 Marlin without any leading and good accuracy.

[Bigslug]

So you're bummed because you think you can't shoot cast in your Microgroove Marlin?

I give ya fitty bucks for it.:mrgreen:

[Trapshooter]

After a long time of trying to be helpful to people with this problem, before opening my mouth, I now remind myself "Never try to teach a pig to sing, it is a waste of your time and it annoys the pig", and "it is impossible to get a person to change their mind if their breakfast depends on it". This tactic has reduced my blood pressure peaks substantially, and probably improved my standing in the community. Hopefully I'm not one of "those people with this problem".

[Texas by God]

Didn't Marlin have .22 LR guns with Microgroove rifling. Did they fill up with lead?

My wife has had two Marlin .22 rifles since 1987. We have been trying to fill them up with lead since then. Every time I look for lead build up- every five years or so- I don’t see any[emoji3]


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[yovinny]

Arent these modern times and the internet just amazingly wonderful !!!
Now its common knowledge that even marlin microgroves can be cast bullet shooters !!! :)

But that dosent really do or say much for those of us that spent years reading, doing research and doing everything know to man (at that time) ,, before abandoning any and all thought of anything but 22's and pop-gun loads being shootable in a microgroove barrel.
Dont get me wrong,, im very happy you can enjoy cast in your microgroove barrel,, but I'll still pass on them for things with real rifling...ymmv.. ;)

[mdi]

One thought overlooked so far. In many professions one needs to be an expert. Auto/truck mechanics need to be experts to instill confidence in the mechanic's ability. Gun counter clerks are often dealing with people that have limited knowledge about firearms. There are others but these two are common. To perform their jobs they have to be experts, but often are not and "forced" to act like they know everything about their areas. How many mechanics would continue to have a job if they answered customer's questions with "I don't know"? How many gun buying customers would be lost if the "expert" behind the counter stuttered and stammered out obvious "I don't know" answers.

Just a thought and I know these are not the same as the stubborn "experts on everything" that this thread is about.

BTW; just yesterday the "Lead bullets in Micro-Groove barrel fallacy" was repeated on another forum and recently I saw the "unsafe to shoot lead in polygon rifled barrels" fact offered. (I've had to be the Auto Electronics, Heavy Equipment Electrician expert for 25+ years and sometimes an "I don't know" wouldn't fit the situation)...

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve been shooting lead in my 45/70 Marlin for years with no problems.
When I was thinking about shooting BP in it all the experts said you couldn’t shoot BP in a lever gun. It would ruin it. I’m glad I didn’t listen to them. I’ve been enjoying using it for a while now.

[Hick]

This is an absolutely true report of an exchange I once sat through between two of my in-laws on a trip in 2016: (She) "Lets go to the Chuck Wagon Buffet, I want some Prime rib" (Him) No-- They don't serve Prime Rib (She) How do you know? You haven't visited us here in years (Him) " I went to eat there in '74-- they don't serve Prime Rib!" (and They DID have Prime Rib)

[15meter]

The one I liked was the young punk behind the counter at a Gander Mountain. They had a Winchester in .351 SL. I asked to see it and he handed me the rifle over the counter.

The hang tag was clearly marked 35 Remington.

I pointed out the marking on the rifle and he ignored me and said they had 35 Remington ammo in stock for it.

Pulled out the phone and looked up the 351 SL and showed it to him, he read it and ignored me again, while he put the rifle back on the rack with the mis-marked hang tag.

Never figured it was any great loss when Gander Mountain went belly up shortly after.

[dondiego]

The one I liked was the young punk behind the counter at a Gander Mountain. They had a Winchester in .351 SL. I asked to see it and he handed me the rifle over the counter.

The hang tag was clearly marked 35 Remington.

I pointed out the marking on the rifle and he ignored me and said they had 35 Remington ammo in stock for it.

Pulled out the phone and looked up the 351 SL and showed it to him, he read it and ignored me again, while he put the rifle back on the rack with the mis-marked hang tag.

Never figured it was any great loss when Gander Mountain went belly up shortly after.

That is simply amazing and I could see a lawsuit coming due to that information!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The Lyman manuals have not helped the Microgroove rifles. Lyman has been feeding this falsehood about microgroove for a very long time. Lyman has also pushed sizing to 'groove' diameter, creating many failures in folks starting out. Microgroove Marlin's - 30-30 .310 or .311, .35 Rem -.360, .444 - .431 or .432, .45-70 .459 but .460 usually better, Marlin 22's 39A and a 25 show no signs of leading with excellent accuracy, even with most of the 'cheap' stuff. Trapshooter has the best answer for people who don't care to embrace new/different ideas.

[beemer]

I was going to write a longer post but decided it boils down to this, most shooters are not going to invest in the tools or do the work required to achieve good results with cast boolits. Jacketed bullets provide instant gratification and the little groups carried in their wallet.

[TXTad]

That is simply amazing and I could see a lawsuit coming due to that information!

At least one cannot get a .35 Remington cartridge into a .351 SL chamber.