First time with a iorn molds

[Wolfdog91]

Well figured since I dropped so much money on these by accident might as well try and make use of them. Like the looks of this one so figured why not.
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At first I tried just pre heating it and seeing if I could just get rid of all the oils with just casing a bunch like some suggested but that didn't seem to work. Then I figured I'd better degrease it but it being a such a nice iorn mold I didn't wanna screw it up so did some reading and a little article from the cast bullets association reccomended bringing a pot of water to a roiling boil , add dawn dishwashing soap then your mold attached to the handles and let it boil for a bit. Well after five minutes I noticed a light layer of red rust forming under water so figured it was good lol. Took it out, washed it in hot tap water whipped it off real good like the instructions said and put it back on the hot plate for 15min. And still all I'm getting is
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Ok sooo , every thing I'm reason points to oil still. So then I just dunked it in acetone the scrubbed it with a toothbrush the hot plate again.looked good and had it hot
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But still was getting about the same results. Mold was hot as crap. Tinkered with my lead from 700-750. Making sure to flux often when it would start loosing it's shine.Would get frosty bullets that just dropped out but they all had those nasty fissures on one side or another or both...tried pressure casting and that didn't work. Honestly was getting pretty frustrating because I was doig. Everything to the letter I thought. Only thing I don't do was smoke them but the way they just fell out I didn't see the need honestly.
Well finally I thought and figured mabye it was akin to pouring water into a cup. Too much force and you get a splash inside the mold resulting in voids instead of a nice even fill like if you gently tipped a pitcher of water into a glass. Ok so tried lifting the handle less so it was a more gentle stream and stared getting nicer bullets ! Not the perfect flawless glass finish ones I WANT but I mean good enough I guess . Probably casted 150-200 easy for this little batch.
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Asked on some of the casting groups on FB and just kept getting told to turn up my alloy mix and get my mold hotter so guess I need a torch or something lol

I also just now noticed I don't have .309,310or 311 bushings for my sizer [emoji1751] just 312 313 and 314 nexr order fir NOR i reckon...
Also this haze me looking really really hard at getting a ladle casting set up [emoji848][emoji848]

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[Winger Ed.]

You're on the right track.

I don't use some fancy thermometer. I'll run the temp up until I just start to get some frosting---
which isn't necessarily a bad thing, then ease it back down until it stops.

Your mold temp sounds fine. I'd raise the temp of the pot some though.

If that mold isn't new, it's real close to it. Or more nearly, it doesn't look like it's even broken in/seasoned.
There is usually more heat marks and the Iron has turned a darker color on ones that have been used even a few hundred times.

You might also want to slug the bore. I'd ask around before I did it,,,
But, there's a chance sizing to .312 might work for you doing it after they're powder coated.

[LenH]

I always had to run the melt a bit hotter when casting .30 cal bullets. But that was with an aluminum mold from NOE.

[Dusty Bannister]

Please consider putting a metal plate on the hot plate in order to provide an evenly heated surface to set the mold for preheating.

Am I seeing debris inside the mold cavity in the area of the nose? Just because you scrub with a tooth brush, does not mean you are doing it effectively.

Perhaps you should try the bullet fit in the barrel as cast before you start enlarging things with powder coating. It might be that the bullet style you have will not fit after applying the powder coating. Just insert the nose of the bullet in the muzzle of the barrel. With out powder coating it might be snug or slightly loose. With powder coating, it might not fit at all. If that is the case, mic the nose and the driving bands and see what you have. It might be that you only need to give the casting a few light coatings of tumble lube and not have to mess with powder coating.

[dverna]

I cast like Winger. I want speed and quality. Get the alloy hot enough to produce a bit of a frosty bullet, then ease back on the heat.

I do not "pre-heat" molds. I throw the first casts out until the mold comes to temperature.

Not sure what alloy you are using. I use 2% Sn (tin) as it helps fill out. I know Sn is expensive, but I want the minimize frustration.

[Bored1]

For the hotplate I've seen all sorts of things from cookie sheets to old circular saw blades to make a flat heated surface. I've also seen people just set the mold on top of the lee pot or rest the blocks in the melt for a short time to help to heat then up.

[Larry Gibson]

Clean the mould with acetone or brake cleaner again. When dry run the flame of a propane torch over the surface inside and out and you will see "moisture" bubble up and then evaporate. When it evaporates move on until the whole mold is done. Leave the blocks on the handles to do this. When the blocks have colled use a Q-tip to slightly swab any residue out of the cavities. No, you won't warp the mould blocks.

Make sure the alloy has a good balance (close to equal amounts) of antimony to tin with no more than 5% each. Cast with the alloy at 710 - 725 degrees. You want to get the alloy into the cavity and fill it as quickly as possible. Adjust the Lee pot to pour fast filling each cavity separate and let the alloy roil up out of the sprue plate hole forming a good sprue or even running off the sprue plate. This is important with a long skinny bullet like the 311284.

[Minerat]

Try opening your pot up so you get full flow and pressure poring by putting the spout in the mold and filling. I had the same issues with an 8mm mould and started ladle casting. I quit having wrinkles because I could get a larger amount of alloy into the cavities. I set the PID at 725° for the larger boolits.

[farmbif]

acetone is a great solvent. it will dissolve just about anything but the problem with it evaporating so fast can sometimes be problematic when trying to remove old dried stubborn rust preventers. there are other things that can work real well from scrubbing with a parts brush or old tooth brush in a small pot of gasoline to using alcohol or spray cleaners like carb cleaner or brake clean. the difficulty of cleaning a mold if you try to use it before cleaning can just bake on the rust preventer making it more difficult to get clean. because of the problems I have with rust in the humid place that I live I usually coat my iron molds heavily with any number of things and have to clean them thoroughly when I go to use them. but once an iron mold is cleaned good and up to casting temp I have very few problems getting good castings. I just keep throwing the wrinkled ones and ones that dont fill out all the way back into the pot till everything is good and hot.
ive made the mistake of trying to cast clean a new mold before. and have had a tough time getting it clean after baking on the preservative applied at the factory.
a brass brush and lots of scrubbing in gasoline got it clean. then the q tip treatment with 90 percent alcohol to get all the crevices cleaned good.

[Harter66]

It's mould temp that is causing that . The long skinny bullets in iron you have to run just as hot , hard , and fast as aluminum moulds .

We will all share the way we do it and there's the book of course, but in the end you'll have to push all the dough up in a ball roll it out and cut your own biscuits out .

I've always only ladled . I let the moulds preheat on top of the pot as I usually only cast one mould at a time . Sometimes especially with long skinny bullets over about 3-3.5 dia it takes 10-15 pours as fast as you can to get the temp right and I over pour the mould just like it looks on the cover of the Lyman cast bullet handbook .

As I mentioned on FB if you have a long cool and frosty bullets at the first pour your hot enough to run good bullets .

[frkelly74]

To heat up a mold , sometimes I leave the sprue cutter open and just fill the mold as fast as the spout will pour. Then dump also as fast as possible and pour another mold full , repeat till everything is good and hot. all the reject boolits are returned to the pot. I wear Ove Gloves and can handle the hot rejects without getting burned. Eventually there are good uniform boolits and then I start closing the sprue cutter and make boolits. Just another little trick to try.

[makeurownfun]

I also commented on your Facebook post that it is probably your mold temperature. Being a steel mold it will take longer to get to temp over aluminum.
That is still what I believe will solve your problem

[lightman]

I agree, looks like your mold was not hot enough or maybe contaminated with oil. I've tried casting with a mold with oil in it and it takes a long while to burn it out. I use brake cleaner as a degreaser and pre heat the mold on a hot plate. I have a piece of steel plat on the hot plate, maybe 1/8th or 3/16th in thick.

[white eagle]

just keep on casting till you start dropping good boolits
you will like a ladle I have been using one for ever since I started casting never any trouble
enjoy your new stuff

[405grain]

The #311284 is a bore riding design. The nose of the bullet ahead of the driving bands is designed to be a near match fit to the lands in a .308" bore. Bore riders get their accuracy from having the bullet aligned with the bore when chambered. Usually, if you powder coat a bore rider the nose will get too fat, and the bullet may not chamber. I do a full powder coat on my 311284's and load them for a 7.65x53 Mauser, and they work fine for that application. Before you load up a hundred rounds of ammo just to find out that they won't chamber, I recommend that you make up a dummy round first (no powder or primer). Not only will this let you know if the cartridge will chamber, but by seating the bullet long at first, then seating it gradually deeper a little at a time, you can quickly figure out the best seating depth for the cartridge in your gun.

Judging from the photo you posted I assume that you might intend to load this bullet in 7.62x39. Larry Gibson did some fine write ups about loading heavy cast bullets in 7.62x39 along with Junior1942 a couple of years ago. If you do a search on this site you'll find lots of information about these loads.

Iron molds take longer to heat up than aluminum molds, but they also retain heat longer than aluminum does. If you're heating the heck out of your molds and still getting wrinkles, it might be a venting problem. With the mold cool, take some toothpicks and scrub out the vent lines on the face of the mold blocks.

[fredj338]

Depending on how long the mold has been oiled, it could take a good long soak in acetone or brake cleaner.

[pworley1]

I let my mold sit on top of the pot while the mix gets up to casting temperature. By the time the mix is ready the mold is ready. I try to cast just below frosty but i am ok with little frost. I only have the problem you are having when I use a new mold.

[Calamity Jake]

I to saw your post on FB, everyone said more heat except one that said check venting and I agree CHECK the vent lines for blockage
also loosen the spru plate so it just swings of its own weight.
The pics above tell me you have enough heat but you can try more, it won't hurt anything.
You may also need some tin in the alloy(about 2 %).
As with most of the members here I have been casting 40+ years I have many Lyman 2 cav molds along with others.
there is one lyman in the group that refuses to cast a good boolit until I smoke the cavities with a butane lighter, I've tried every trick in the book
along some that aren't in the book, nothing helped until I smoked the cavities, so give that a try, use a lighter not a match or candle.

[mehavey]

My own observations -- some of which recap earlier comments:

- 1st pics ... mould not hot enough and/or remaining oil contamination
SOLUTION: See https://s15.postimg.cc/n7t2rmxtn/Hotplate.jpg to start, and simply 3x scrub w/ hot tap water dishsoap/toothbrush. Dry in Dutch oven while lead heating
- As per Larry G... 700-725 dgr lead fine for alloys approaching #2. 800 for 30-1/pure lead. (`Applaud your use of lead/temp PID control [smilie=s:)
- I usually seat/crimp the GC using an oversize sizer before PC. But if yours will still fit on afterwards, fine to PC then install.
- Bore riders usually don't like PC and still fit into the bore. Check Max OAL in the rifle itself before loading.
- I get best fill w/ heavy bullets by free/fast pour w/puddle. Lets air out during the pour/good sprue puddle allows lead shrinkage/draw into mold as it cools

PS: I love 'iorn' moulds :bigsmyl2:

[Bigslug]

Agree with the opinion that the mold looks new. All the carb and choke cleaner in the world doesn't seem to prevent various issues with new mold break in. Since you have a coil-type hotplate, you might consider finding a "sacrificial" cast iron skillet to set on top of it and make yourself a "mold oven" by cutting a hole in the side of a steel coffee can for your handle to stick out of. Since you'll need to oil your iron molds before storage, this is a good way to cook out any remaining goo left after your preliminary degreaser application while you go off and do something useful for 20-30 minutes while your pot heats up.

I frequently run the pot in the 800F range with new molds and back down only if it seems warranted.

No harm in dunking the corner of your mold for 10-15 seconds to bring up the temperature and help burn out more oil. The worst that happens is you wait longer for your sprue to harden while it cools back down.

Reading Larry's post, I LIKE his blowtorch idea. . .A LOT.

[GregLaROCHE]

I think that mold just needs to get broken in. I don’t think you should be pouring slower, but faster! Keep things on the hot side and keep casting. You’re getting there and so is the mold.

[Rapier]

Everyone figures out what works for them. I never put water in contact with raw iron moulds. I use solvents to clean the interior of my moulds. I use premium starter fluid, which is ether. Spray till running off, scrub with Q-tip, spray until running off, again done. If spraying ether , spray outside only and no flame at all. I use the same process for dissolving carbon on gas guns.

[JSnover]

The only time hot water and soap are a good idea is if you don't have any other options, IMO.
They work... but as the OP and others have found, there's a risk of flash rusting.

[barrabruce]

I ladle,pour with various dubious alloys.
Once my melt is hot and I have fluxed it and shiny hot I dunk the corner and sprue plate in till the lead just washes off.
I use Ed’s red for a preserver on the steel moulds and bits.
I clean with methylated spirits/alcohol.
I keep pouring lead into the cavity and run off till it is well hot.
If I still get wrinkled bullets I’ll put some metho in the cavity and let it bubble and evaporate out.
Then tip it over.
It tends to get the gook out.
Sometimes I’ve had to do this several times.
Do it away from flames etc thou.

Some molds just need more and more heat to get hot enough before they will cast.
In one mold with no vent grooves it has to just about have the handles smoking to get it to work ,but boy the 100 yr old mold will just drop then as fast as you can pour them.

I recently bought a new brass mold but it is long.
I had to keep heating it and starting over till it finally got hot enough to cast without being on the loosing end.

Strange but new molds tend to take a bit more heating to get going.

[Dusty Bannister]

Interesting that many mold users talk about a surface developing a patina which then allows the casting to drop easily from the mold cavity. All that is a form of controlled oxide on the surface of a mold. How much different is that from a light "flash rusting"?
Not trying to start a water fight, but just saying that terms and processes can be very contradictory,

[barrabruce]

I had a steel mold flash rust by boiling in dishwasher water as well.
Maybe I should have just boiled some fresh water and turned it into bluing.
It turns the red oxide into ferric oxide or something like that at 100 deg c with no oxygen or sumpin like that.

I know I cleaned a mold dobbing bees wax in the hot cavity. then casting till it got clean.
Or did I just make a mess ? Hmmm.
If you got to wait 5 minutes for the sprue to set then I’d say it could be a little on the hot side.
Don’t ask.

[405grain]

Wolfdog: I just thought of something that should have been asked back on page #1. Does the alloy that you're using give you fill out in your other molds? If this alloy works in other molds, then we're still stumped. If you try this alloy in, say, an aluminum mold, and you still get wrinkles; that may indicate an alloy problem instead of a mold problem. You said that you were running your pot really hot. Could that be hot enough to melt in a zinc tire weight that somehow slipped by you? This probably isn't the answer, I'm just trying to hit all the bases. Cast a few bullets in a mold that you know that works just to see what happens.

[Dom]

I have this exact same mold for 30 + years. I have never had the problem with mine you have with yours. I bring everything up to temp, & fill with a bottom dump pot. Perfect, never a problem. I can't begin to understand what is causing your problem. I used scrap WW, with a BRN of 10.5. No extra alloys. Always simple. I use this in a 30-06 & 308. A superb bullet for me. I use no thermometer.

[GregLaROCHE]

Just something to add on the subject. I once bought a Pedersoli round ball mold(iron). I cleaned off the oil and when I cast the first one it was perfect, as well as those following. I never expected that. With most of my broken in molds, I still need to cast a dozen before I get what I’m looking for in quality.