New Powders ?

[Wolfdog91]

So , powders coming back really well two hours from the house. Wanted to get some for loading cast ( rifle) but honestly all the "Classic Cast Powders " are costing an arm and a leg . Like 1lbs of 4227 was a raging like $55 a can 5744 was $61 a pound ect. Just too rich for my blood. However stuff like shooters world brand or ram shot where all still about the same at $35-45 a pound. That a long with the fact theres been a good may powders made since 2010 wanted to know if anyone has experimented with any of the newer stuff for rifle cast ? Was thinking about looking into the stuff most suppressed guys use but idk.
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[rancher1913]

if you got good selection now, buy all that you can afford now, it could disappear very soon.

[Budzilla 19]

Wolf dog, where is that located?

[Dancing Bear]

Well at least they're in stock, unlike in my AO.

[TurnipEaterDown]

In General, I am seeing same: new powders & Shooters World / Accurate are cheaper that IMR extruded, and 5744 is priced very high (I am seeing $60/lb on 5744).
Do note that SW Buffalo Rifle has been reported to BE SAME AS 5744.

I think this is a general fallout of what the producers want to sell: higher prices on products they really don't want to emphasize.
Manufacturers make New products & processes not just to satisfy customers, but also reduce internal costs. It's called productivity gain. Applies to more that labor hours.

Also note that the whole reason for development of ball powder to begin with was reduced manufacturing costs. So, of course the extruded "should" be higher.

Probably also still sorting out w/ supply & demand.

[Wolfdog91]

Wolf dog, where is that located?

First picture is Mobile Shooters Center in mobile Alabama the other is Bullseye outdoors in Lucedale Mississippi.
Well worth the 3.5hr drive imo

[Wolfdog91]

if you got good selection now, buy all that you can afford now, it could disappear very soon.

Sorry but not at these prices. Bought 1k primers for $120 which honestly isn't that bad for me. But I simply could not justify $61 bones for alot of these classic powders. Especially for what I'd be doing with it. If I was buy for my jacketed precision stuff then yeah but not for cast

[Budzilla 19]

Thanks, Wolfdog.

[Texas by God]

I used a pound of Shooters World Match to load a bunch of jacketed bullet .223 ammunition. I bought it at Scheels for $40/#.
I have also tried(and like) AA2015 for cast loads. It was $50/# at a high priced LGS- but I had a gift card!
I didn’t have a gift card for IMR 4227 or IMR 3031; so I clenched somewhat when buying them…..$20 per pound higher than 3 years ago- but what isn’t?


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[JonB_in_Glencoe]

"That a long with the fact theres been a good may powders made since 2010 wanted to know if anyone has experimented with any of the newer stuff for rifle cast ?"

I too, wish there were more posts with results using newer powders.

[Froogal]

Winchester 244 has been around for a few years, but it is new to me. I've loaded up some .45 acp with it. It works, but seems kind of weak at the recommended starting load. I loaded some more at closer to the MAX grains, but the weather has not been conducive to getting out and testing. I've also loaded some .45 Colt, but again have not had the opportunity to test them.

I bought the 244 to replace the Unique powder which I really like but seems to be currently unavailable.

[45workhorse]

In General, I am seeing same: new powders & Shooters World / Accurate are cheaper that IMR extruded, and 5744 is priced very high (I am seeing $60/lb on 5744).
Do note that SW Buffalo Rifle has been reported to BE SAME AS 5744.

I think this is a general fallout of what the producers want to sell: higher prices on products they really don't want to emphasize.
Manufacturers make New products & processes not just to satisfy customers, but also reduce internal costs. It's called productivity gain. Applies to more that labor hours.

Also note that the whole reason for development of ball powder to begin with was reduced manufacturing costs. So, of course the extruded "should" be higher.

Probably also still sorting out w/ supply & demand.

I have read the same about Buffalo Rifle, on their website (https://shootersworldpowder.com/ ), but have not been able to locate it locally. Have some of their powders for pistol have not been able to try it out yet. New German Shepard puppy, three months old today!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I have Shooter's World Buffalo Rifle from before the panic, works like 5744 and is less expensive. I've used HP38 for light rifle loads, works much like Red Dot.

[jonp]

I can tell you that the Shooters World (Lovex) powder is good stuff.

[stubshaft]

My LGS has a very poor selection and is more focused on profits than customer service. I just bought a one pound can of Varget for $67.95. Small Rifle Primers are $169.00 a brick.

[rockrat]

SW precision is just about grain for grain with Varget, at least in my 6mm Br and a few others.

[megasupermagnum]

Well, those prices are probably why they have them. No other stores were willing to pay that. My local shop is about $20 less than your quoted prices, and that's still too high.

To answer your question, some of the clone powders can work fine. Accurate is now owned by Hodgdon so we will see if their consistency improves. Accurate powders were not bad, but they varied a lot. Accurate's version of 5744 should be a decent cast bullet powder. I used to shoot their XMP 5744, and it worked well enough. It was not as good as IMR 3031 or IMR 4895 though. I don't have a ton of experience with Ramshot, but I just have not got the accuracy I want with it. I think I have some shooters world, but I don't know if I've ever used it.

I use plenty of IMR 3031 and IMR 4895 when I'm trying to push the limits of 30 caliber cartridges. The great majority of my cast bullet shooting is with fast powders. My 308 loads with bluedot are no slouch, and it's half the powder per shot than slow powders, plus it's cheaper per pound.

[megasupermagnum]

I just checked some prices, and those stores are way out of line. You can right now go onto Precision Reloading, order a 8 pound jug of IMR 4227 for $324. Even with shipping and hazmat fee you would be saving almost $100 having it sent right to your door. That's besides the gas and time you spent driving to those stores hours away.

[BNE]

I am a fan of the Ramshot powders. They meter very well and I have not had any known accuracy issues. (BUT I have not specifically tested them for accuracy either.)

[405grain]

I'm using Shooter's World Buffalo for everything that 5744 would work in, and Tactical Rifle for 223. I decided years ago that whenever possible I'd buy powder in the 8 pound jug instead of the 1 pound cans. As other's have advised, check prices & availability online at places like Powder Valley and Graf & Sons before you buy local. If they have what you want in stock it could save you some money to buy online. (Avoid the scammer sites: if you've never heard of them and they have infinite amounts of everything in stock at pre-pandemic prices, it's probably a scam.)

[openbook]

Wolfdog- I can't answer your direct question because I haven't experimented with the newer powders. But do you know about the cast loads that use very small amounts of fast powder? They're loads that were easier to find in older manuals. For instance, Red Dot, Titegroup and Bullseye in amounts under 10 grains can push even large caliber rifle cast cartridges. I'm assuming you want to make plinking loads.

Just a thought. Maybe what you need isn't a new powder, but an old recipe.

[makeurownfun]

I shoot a lot of cast in 300blk/458 socom in rifle & 9mm/40/10mm cast in pistol

I have become a Shooters World fan. Works great for me in my applications. No reason for you not to at least try it

[Dancing Bear]

In searching for SW Buffalo Rifle no one has it in stock. But in looking at https://www.tacticalammopowders.com/about-us/ the site does not specify if actually in stock but will accept orders. No credit card orders? No thank you!

[pworley1]

I have tried most of the Shooters World powders and have not found one that I do not like.

[deces]

In searching for SW Buffalo Rifle no one has it in stock. But in looking at https://www.tacticalammopowders.com/about-us/ the site does not specify if actually in stock but will accept orders. No credit card orders? No thank you!


-NB: Not all products are posted on the site, we are https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/ukraine-has-more-tanks-on-the-ground-than-russia/currently updating/uploading our inventory and stocks. In the event you don’t see the product you’re looking for please kindly contact us via our: Live chat or email: info@tacticalammopowders.com for more info and details in regards to your desired product.
https://www.tacticalammopowders.com/about-us/
It looks like a "10% for the big guy" scam.

[Cris T]

I'll make my own black powder and load that before I pay those kinds of prices

[Wolfdog91]

Wolfdog- I can't answer your direct question because I haven't experimented with the newer powders. But do you know about the cast loads that use very small amounts of fast powder? They're loads that were easier to find in older manuals. For instance, Red Dot, Titegroup and Bullseye in amounts under 10 grains can push even large caliber rifle cast cartridges. I'm assuming you want to make plinking loads.

Just a thought. Maybe what you need isn't a new powder, but an old recipe.

Nope full horse loads 1800-2500 fps lol. I've looked over most of the old recipes and yes they work....but not really what I need for many reasons

[farmerjim]

I have lots of the old powders, but tried some of the shooters world and they worked fine for me.

[charlie b]

Looking at SW website their Buffalo Rifle powder is made for reduced loads and they show some of them in their load data.

I have not had a problem with reduced loads using extruded powders. Some don't work as well as others but they don't do anything 'funny'.

Costs do not seem that bad. Consider that you didn't have a problem paying triple for primers but you didn't want to pay double for powders? (pre-COVID vs Post-COVID). Considering inflation those power prices are cheap.

[barrabruce]

I’d be happy over here for the prices you can buy things.
Hell getting anything faster than 4198 or 2207 has been a futile effort in the last several years.
Primers were cheap , now gone up.
Who needs primers when you can’t get powder.

Flirt me over a 6 lb keg of bulleye or red dot or something quick.
And a something a few rows down from 2400 and ‘I’ll fix you up for it.

Bruce in Oz

[jgstrug]

I have been working on this a little bit and finding little or no data in print, and the manufacturer just states we do not recommend this product for that application. We can look at burn rate and extrapolate some info from other cartridge load data, but uncharted area's in smokeless powder is a little hair raising!

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[crackers]

I can bend over enough to reach that Enforcer. The last I bought, three months ago, was $25 - use it like 2400.

[Driver man]

Buy what you can while you can . Price becomes irrelevant if you cant get what you want. Just like Bruce in OZ powders and primers are as scarce as hens teeth in NZ. I would leap on those powders at those prices and do a dance as I went out the door.

[megasupermagnum]

Buy what you can while you can . Price becomes irrelevant if you cant get what you want. Just like Bruce in OZ powders and primers are as scarce as hens teeth in NZ. I would leap on those powders at those prices and do a dance as I went out the door.

That's not the case in the USA. Powder selection is a little limited for some people, but as I posted earlier, you can currently have any of those powders shipped to your door for $20 less PER POUND. Those stores aren't even trying to be competitive.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't know about H4198, but I found IMR 4198 within 15 seconds. Ballistic Products has it.

[GregLaROCHE]

We are used to those prices in Europe.