FFFG in the 45-70?

[littlejack]

Good evening fella's:
I have a question for all of you knowledgable bp shooters. As some of you know, I started my black powder reloding and shooting just this last summer. I bought me a Uberti 45-70 HiWall and away I went. I appreciate all of the information from this forum and the expertese related from all of you. I have started out with the Goex cartridge powder that was recommended from my local black powder shooting shop.
I was told by a fellow worker and bp gunsmith that he himself had used the FFFg powder in the 45-70.
Everything that I have read says that the FFG and the Cartridge is the powder of choice in the Goex brand for the 45-70 cartridge.
If a person was wanting to up the velocity of his 45-70 loads and still stay with black powder, one can load the (duplex) loads, being a small charge of smokeless under the bp.
QUESTION: Can a person safely load a finer grain such as FFFG in the 45-70 cartridge without too much pressure being built up?
I have loaded the top end load for the Sprinfield rifle in my HiWall. This was 40 grains of Re7 with my Lyman 530 grain Postell cast of 20-1.
In my Lyman 48th edition, a charge of 41 grains of Re7 develops 18,000 cup.
In the new edition of the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Reloading Manual 60 grains of Goex cartridge with the same bullet develops 9,700 cup.
I have loaded 70 grains of Cartridge with the same bullet with no problems.
Does anyone have any personal expierience with the FFFG powder in the 45-70 cartridge?
Jack

[montana_charlie]

QUESTION: Can a person safely load a finer grain such as FFFG in the 45-70 cartridge without too much pressure being built up?
If you took all of the guys shooting BP in 45/70 rifles, the number of those who load with FFFg is most probably a fairly small minority. But there are so many of them it seems unlikely that the practice kills any of 'em.
CM

[Don McDowell]

I've ran 72 grs of Goex 3f express with the rcbs 82084 bullet. Velocity went to 1275 fps. 65 grs ran jast a tad over 1200, and 60 grs was doing 1150.
Several folks do run 3f, you just need to work a load up and see if its doing what you need it to do. I saw a fella shoot a tight group at 1000 yds his load was 80 grs of 3f express.

[Hip's Ax]

When I was considering shooting 1000 yard with my 45-70 my mentor was going to load me 3f Swiss powder (and a healthy dose at that) and the 550 Hoch bullet that we also use at 600. Says the winner at Raton used that combo one year at 1000.

Funny, I opted to buy a 45-90 for 1000 instead and we are using Swiss 1.5f in those.

[willyboy]

I've got two Trapdoors,one original rifle cut to officer's model specs,and one H&R repro carbine.I have fired 2F, and 3F through them.I normally shoot an Aloxed 375 bullet .459 dia. over a wonder wad,a card wad,over 60 gr. of Goex. For me,the tiny gain in fps with the 3F isn't worth the increase in fouling. With 2F, not only is there less fouling,it's softer 'fluffier' and easier to remove.

[waksupi]

Willyboy, I have had exactly opposite results. 3f always fouled less than 2F, regardless of firearm.

[The Double D]

Keep in mind when going to the smaller grades, burn rates increase and so does pressure, veleocity usually doesn't change much.. Don't just swap powder, start over, reduce loads and work up.

[boommer]

just spend for 1.5 Swiss, 45-70 and up and don't look back.I'd like to support Goex but the preformance is not there.

[John Boy]

QUESTION: Can a person safely load a finer grain such as FFFG in the 45-70 cartridge without too much pressure being built up?
Sure Jack, why not? If one does a trajectory table using FFFg with a known velocity, you will see that the pressures are well below 28,000 psi which most 45-70 rifles are rated for, including the Uberti HiWall


Does anyone have any personal experience with the FFFG powder in the 45-70 cartridge?
Some of my best 1000yd recipes for the Lyman 457132 and PJ Creedmoor bullets are with Goex FFFg Sifted and Meteor FFFg (a vintage '73 powder). The charge is 70gr scale weight. Instead of a starting velocity of 10xx or 11xx fps, FFFg will generate a starting velocity of 12xx. The extra 1xx or 2xx fps keeps the bullet, in flight, higher in the sub-sonic velocity range. Especially with 500+ gr bullets when shooting 800 - 1000yds. For lighter bullets, 300 - 400gr, FFg powder will suffice and the same powder for heavier bullets out to 500m.

Don't try your reloads with FFFFg though!

[littlejack]

Thanks fella's for all the replies. Good information. If I ever start to shoot the long range matches, i may need the extra velocity of the finer powder for the longer distances. Right now, I am using the Goex ctg. I load 60 grains with the 535 grain Postell bullet for 9700 cup and 1070 fps.
Jack

[Boerrancher]

I shoot 77 grs of Goex 3F on a 340 gr paper patch boolit. I don't know what the velocity is, but I can tell you it kicks about 2x as hard as 70 grs of 2F Swiss behind a 405 gr HB boolit. I am a recoil junky and but that is one heck of a recoil with that 3F charge.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Dale53]

I was waiting for someone to mention the increase in felt recoil. That is REAL and is quite different after shooting 100 rounds compared to one or two rounds and proclaiming that as "not bad":mrgreen:.

Dale53