Loading 45-70 BP cartridges, 10 chamber, 10 don't....

[Beachmk4]

I am new to loading BP cartridges for my Sharps. I just purchased a Shiloh Sharps 30" barreled gun. I am loading 70 gr. of 2F behind a cast 500 gr. boolit. I am loading new Starlight cases, processing them exactly the same way. I did 20 but 10 wouldn't chamber in the Shiloh gun. They all fit in the Pedersoli I own but stick and don't seat in the Shiloh.... I took out my micrometer and everything I measure comes out the same... I even measured down the case and found no variances.

Is it possible the compressed powder is bulging the case just above the case base? I just can't seem to work this out.... Any suggestions???

[NSB]

The chambers aren’t the same dimension on those two guns. A chamber cast will show you this. This is quite common in 45-70s from different manufacturers

[Castaway]

When you say you processed the brass the same, what did you do? If you just cleaned them, I suspect the brass that doesn’t fit your Shiloh was fire-formed for the Pedersoli. The brass fired in your Shiloh should readily fit back in the Shiloh. The problem might also be the seating depth of the bullet. If loading a 500 gr Government style bullet, you may find seating deeper allows the round nose bullet to chamber. If I load a Lee 500 grain Gvt bullet, my OAL has to be less than 2.492”, otherwise, it just won’t go in

[Fitz]

I have 3 45-70's , the Ruger #1 has the loosest chamber , then the Pedersoli and the CPA has the tightest of all even had to take 25 thousand's off the resizing die so that they would chamber easily but once fire formed to the rifle I neck size only and keep rounds marked as to which rifle they are for.

[Beachmk4]

Thanks for the answers!!! I checked to see what cases I was loading. All were fresh out of the bag Starline cases that I ran through the sizing die.... They all drop right in before I charge the cases and add the veg card and set the boolit. Is the case expanding? Or are they made incorrectly?

[trails4u]

How much are you compressing your powder? Are you drop tubing or vibrating your powder charges down to consistent heights before seating? Are you loading right to the lands, and if so, are your bullets/seating depth consistent? Lots of factors to consider.....but if some chamber and some don't, there is an inconsistency in your materials and/or process for sure...

[Castaway]

If you’re full length sizing, then your problem is seating depth of the round nosed bullet. Don’t full length size, segregate brass according to the rifle from which it is fired. Load the Sharps brass, compress and thumb seat your bullet. Insert the cartridge in your rifle. Note how much is sticking out, remove cartridge and bullet, compress and load again until your block closes. At some point you might find dropping your charge to 68 or 66 grains. Once you get the depth right, play with your charge. Depends on how the powder performs. Once your proper depth is found for the particular bullet you’re using, measure and record the compression die values so you can readily repeat the depth. Do the same for each type of bullet you load.

[JKR]

From your description, my guess is you’re bulging the case.
In a new, full length sized, Starline case, 70 grains would require a good deal of compression to seat the 500 grain bullet deep enough. Depending on your chamber, compression will probably begin at about 60 grains. The chamber in the Shiloh is typically tight as compared to your Pedersoli, which is why they’ll chamber in the Italian gun and not the Shiloh.
After the cases are fire formed you may be able to run that much powder provided you don’t resize.
JKR

[Gunlaker]

One problem people often have when loading for a Shiloh Sharps for the first time is belling the case mouth too much. If the loaded round is much bigger than 0.481"-0.482" at the case mouth then they probably won't chamber.

Chris.

[Bent Ramrod]

Rather than measuring, you might take a Magic Marker and draw a fat line down the length of the cartridge case and the boolit as well. Push the cartridge into the chamber as far as you can with your thumb, and tap it back out with a cleaning rod. The scraped off ink will show you where the interference is.

There are frequently “teething problems” in any new reloading endeavor. Bulges below crimps, slightly enlarged bases and other unwanted artifacts go away after enough experience. The way I handle such issues with black powder cartridges is to take the decapping stem out of the FLS die, put the rifle (breech opened) in its cleaning cradle, put a sticky cartridge in the loading press, raise the ram, screw down the die until I feel resistance, lower the ram, screw the die in a trifle deeper, raise the ram, slowly and carefully, remove the cartridge and see if it chambers.

If it goes in, fine; I run the rest of them through at that die setting, and check them for fit in the rifle. I don’t close the breechblock; at least not more than enough to show that it can seat the rim with normal resistance from the boolit in the chamber leade. If the cartridge doesn’t fit, I screw the die in a little deeper and repeat. I can see the cartridge going deeper and deeper into the chamber by this procedure until it fits.

If they are developmental loads I keep the modification in mind when I look at the target diagrams, but I usually don’t see any great accuracy loss by this procedure, in and of itself. I once put 55 grains of BP into a group of .38-55 cases, and those were noticeably bulged after compression and boolit seating. Another incremental trip through the FLS die, and they fired without problems. A smaller powder charge gave better accuracy, of course, but shooting the cartridges was easier and more informative than taking them apart and starting over.

[Don McDowell]

If your not using a compression die to compress the powder and seat the wad, chances are really good you're swelling the nose of the bullet when seating it, especially if your bullet is cast from a soft alloy. Applying to much crimp can also cause chambering problems.
70 grains of 2f should not bulge the case.

[NSB]

I had two different Win/Miroku rifles (1886 and 1885) that were built to SAAMI specs. Both had to have the chamber lengthened to accept any Rem. 405g bullet or any Hornady bullet 350g and up. This was done by Turnbull who told me that this is a common find in some guns and they ended adding .250” to the chamber. Everything fit after that and both guns shoot extremely well. Actual “spec” doesn’t allow for many common bullets.

[Beachmk4]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Let the experimenting begin!

[Don McDowell]

What ever you do don't go dinking around with the chamber in that Shiloh.

[Beachmk4]

If your not using a compression die to compress the powder and seat the wad, chances are really good you're swelling the nose of the bullet when seating it, especially if your bullet is cast from a soft alloy. Applying to much crimp can also cause chambering problems.
70 grains of 2f should not bulge the case.

I was using a compression die but wasn't going deep enough. I deformed the boolit when I set it to length. I hand started each one and they were all perfect. Thanks a million!!

[Gunlaker]

Nice to hear that you've figured it out. There are a few pitfalls that people often run into when getting set up to shoot one of these fine rifles. They sure work well once you've got them sorted out!

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Glad you got it figured
Shiloh chambers are pretty tight and I’d you do much of anything that gets the bullet nose over .450 diameter chambering will be a problem

[FrankJD]

Good you got it figured out. You might wanna try paper patching, too.

[Harleysboss]

The belled case mouth caused me a problem with chambering when I was first learning to load for my Shiloh.

[indian joe]

The chambers aren’t the same dimension on those two guns. A chamber cast will show you this. This is quite common in 45-70s from different manufacturers

common in any calibre !!!!

Its rare to be able to cross chamber fireformed brass in different makers chambers unless the load is soft enough they dont form properly in the first place

[GregLaROCHE]

Good shooting ! One of these days I’m going to get me one of those.