8x57mm heavy bullet loads

[Texas by God]

I have a new to me Lee two cavity mould. On top it is stamped 8mm Max. A long flat nose design that drops at 250grs from my alloy. The sectional density of these has to be .300 or better!
What loads have worked for this bullet?
My rifle is a Polish 98 in good order.
I’m sure that I can use Unique or Red Dot but I also have IMR 4227, 4198, and 3031.
Thanks in advance.


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[LAGS]

I have a 216 gr Boolit mold.
I have used up to 13 gr of Red Dot
Or 16 gr of Unique.
But my favorite powder is 28 gr of RL-7
You said your rifle was a Polish 98.
Is that the Model 29
Just wondering because I recently replaced a stock on one of those models for a friend.
They look like well built models.
In my records I found that I use to load a 220 gr Jacketed bullet with 3031.
The loads were around 36 gr

[Streetwalker]

I use 16 gr. of 2400 and a magnum primer with a 225 gr. bullet. Shoots tighter than I can hold with a German 1943 DUV 98K.

[beemer]

I have the 8mm karr, the box says 215 grs. but mine is almost 240 lubed and checked, it also pours around .326-7. It shot well in my M48 but refused to feed out of one side of the mag. The front of the bullet would hit the butt of the barrel. I cobbled up a cutter and turned it into a RN. It does feed now and weighs 240 out of the mold.

I looked but can't put my hands on my notes but I am quite certain I used IMR 4198 in the 20 grain range and a dacron filler. I sized it to .325 as that's the only 8mm sizer I have. I use fairly stiff loads, I ran into a lot of blow back and case shortening with lighter loads.

I didn't get to totally ring it out, I got seriously side tracked and haven't got back to it yet. Please keep us informed and maybe I can get my butt in gear and work more with mine.

I read an article on Polish Mausers a while back. Seems if you have one you can count it to have been used in the fight, on both sides. They were not a great many around, good fiind.

[Texas by God]

Thank you all.
This came to me from a friend as just the barreled action. Also came with a semi inletted walnut classic stock.
I decided to try something different and added native pecan wood accents to the stock.
It has been scrubbed and re-stamped and apparently went to serve in the Spanish Civil War from what I read. It seems as well made as any German or Czech Mauser that I’ve had. The front sight is unusual- unlike most Mauser sights that I’ve seen.
I epoxied a scope base on the rear sight leaf so that I can use a FF3 red dot sight instead of the issue sights.
I shot a 3” three shot group @100yds yesterday with 175 gr Privi btsp so I’m hoping that it likes cast as well.
I have the Lee 324-175 mould also to try.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230311/eb26a94899783629618a7ae67c324d84.jpg


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[LAGS]

I agree that front sight is totally different then the regular model 98 front sight.
The rear sight is also mounted a little further to the rear then other Mauser sights.
On the Model 29 that I rebuilt the owner got me a surplus stock that I refinished.
But there was no handguard.
So I had to make one.
I built the pattern out of a VZ 24 handguard and a Turkish 38 rear portion that fit the groove in the front of the receiver.
Yes,
I cut them in half and glued the two handguard sections together and filled the old hole for the rear sight so I could cut in the hole for the correct rear sight position.

[eastbank]

i bought four of the swedish made 8 mm rifles built on fn 98 comersial actions in the late 40,s(i think 640 models). they have ex bores with pretty good outsides. i have been shooting J-175 gr bullets at 2700 fps with varget, getting 1-3/4 " three shot groups with open sights at 100 yrds. they originaly came from simpsons, but i got them at public auction for 350.00 to 400.00 each. if your looking for a good strong 98 action i recommend them.

[405grain]

Texas: Nice stock. Can you get a piece of pecan big enough to carve a complete stock? Just my opinion but I think a pecan stock would look great. (especially on something like a muzzleloader) Also, is that Fred Flintstone's outboard motor? That has to be the oldest outboard motor I've ever seen.

[Larry Gibson]

With a 250 gr cast bullet i would use a slower burning powder such as RL19, RL22, IMR 4350, H4350, IMR 4831 or H4831. If load desity is less than 80% I'd use a dacron filler. If a plinker/casual load is wanted I certainly use a much lighter bullet in the 150 - 170 gr range.

[Texas by God]

Thanks all.
405, that is a Western Auto Wizard outboard motor. 1948 vintage; I’ve never messed with it and don’t remember where I got it!
I put it on the fence to annoy my wife. It worked[emoji3]
And I do have a couple of pecan blanks if you want one. PM me.


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[Hamish]

Is that 8mm Max going to even chamber in a wz.29 without putting the gas check way below the neck? The Max was designed for the m/88 and the older, heavier cartridge was it not?

TbG, I think you’re going to want the Lee 175gr mold, shoot exceptional out of my 98k.

[Texas by God]

I do have a Lee 175 gr mould, but the first time I tried it the halves weren’t seating square so I’ve repaired it but I haven’t cast with it since.
I did use some older Lee 175s that I had from a previous 8mm and they did work well.
The Max did have the gas check below the neck- it’s a long bullet. I wasn’t pleased with it accuracy wise and I got some leading as well.
That experiment failed.


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[Hamish]

TbG,

Nice to see another scout mount user. Looking forward to hearing about your results. I don’t think there are too many of us still using WC870 or 872 from GIBRASS, but 48gr under the Lee bullet is all I could ask for, and it’s still cheap.

[Dutchman]

Is that 8mm Max going to even chamber in a wz.29 without putting the gas check way below the neck? The Max was designed for the m/88 and the older, heavier cartridge was it not?<snipped>

I've only test fired a couple rds but they do go ~bang~. Don't recall offhand what load I used, possibly Unique or Reddot or 700X. The nose alone is .325" and I size to .325" so that big honkin' boolit does indeed hang deep in the case. That's as far out before it hits the rifling in my old Gewehr 98. (or was it the K98?)

https://images15.fotki.com/v1674/photos/4/28344/9430776/20210823_131617-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/bullet-casting/20210823-131617.html)

Dutch

[Hamish]

Thanks Dutch. That exactly what I remember trying one in a ‘42 byf K98k. What seemed like most of the projectile inside the case. I know lots of fellows do it with no ill effects, but no thank you, 175-200 grains works quite nicely.

[TD1886]

I've been using the Lyman 323471 pointed Loverin style bullet in my scoped Yugo 48B Mauser for decades. What I like about it is the BC is very high for a cast bullet and it sure proves out at my 465 yard shooting with it. Very accurate at that distance. I use near a full case charge of 872 powder. It's fairly pleasant to shoot. I also have the NOE copy and it's shoots the same.

[Dutchman]

I've been using the Lyman 323471 pointed Loverin style bullet in my scoped Yugo 48B Mauser for decades. What I like about it is the BC is very high for a cast bullet and it sure proves out at my 465 yard shooting with it. Very accurate at that distance. I use near a full case charge of 872 powder. It's fairly pleasant to shoot. I also have the NOE copy and it's shoots the same.

I have both Lyman 323471 @ .324" and NOE version I think is called 326471 @ .325". I've shot the Lyman more than the NOE so far. My rifles love it. I also sized down the Lyman to .321" and shot it through the German Commission Gewehr 1888 with excellent results. I shoot pretty much everything with Unique, Reddot, 2400 and 700X.

Dutch

[Larry Gibson]

Ah yes, the tried and true Lyman 323471. My mould is a factory HP mould which fully dressed HOs run 198 gr. With a hot steel BB dropped in the mould sans the HP stem the COWW alloyed bullets weigh in at 218 gr. I load the "solids" in the 8x57 over 30 gr of H4895 with a dacron filler which give 1875 fps out of my VZ24. Accuracy at 100 runs very close to MOA and, as previously mentioned, due to the very high BC the bullet holds very well out to 500 yards.

[Dutchman]

<snipped to reveal.....>With a hot steel BB dropped in the mould sans the HP stem the COWW alloyed bullets weigh in at 218 gr.

Ok, I see but I don't recall seeing anything about this little trick before. I once found a copper plated BB inside the rebound slide of a Smith & Wesson Brazilian 1937 .45 revolver. I'm sensing its not the same thing as dropping it into a molten tiny bullet mold. Due tell.....

Dutch

[TD1886]

Ah yes, the tried and true Lyman 323471. My mould is a factory HP mould which fully dressed HOs run 198 gr. With a hot steel BB dropped in the mould sans the HP stem the COWW alloyed bullets weigh in at 218 gr. I load the "solids" in the 8x57 over 30 gr of H4895 with a dacron filler which give 1875 fps out of my VZ24. Accuracy at 100 runs very close to MOA and, as previously mentioned, due to the very high BC the bullet holds very well out to 500 yards.

I don't think any other Lyman bullet comes close to that 8mm's BC. Speaking of which those Lab Radar Chronographs tell you what the BC is, I like that, but unfortunately I don't own one.

Another thing I found Larry is that as exceptional that bullets shoots at long distance I would have thought it would be spectacular at 100 yards. It hasn't been for me and I do think that it's not fully asleep at 100 yards. What's your take on this.

[TD1886]

I have both Lyman 323471 @ .324" and NOE version I think is called 326471 @ .325". I've shot the Lyman more than the NOE so far. My rifles love it. I also sized down the Lyman to .321" and shot it through the German Commission Gewehr 1888 with excellent results. I shoot pretty much everything with Unique, Reddot, 2400 and 700X.

Dutch

Dutch I've taked both bullets, NOE and LYMAN, cast with the same alloy, and tried putting them back in the mould cavity of the wrong mould they came from and was shocked when they dang near fit!

[TD1886]

Dutch I got that new LEE mould and cast with it today. This is what I got. My bullets weigh 143 grains. Bottom bands are .267 to.269. The bottom of the nose is .264 and at the very bottom. It starts tapering away from that .264 right away towards the nose of course. Alloy was wheel weights.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Can't help much with the 250 gr., as the heaviest I've shot was 220 gr. CGC over IMR-4895 from one of my VZ24s. Beautiful rifle, love the contrast between the pecan and walnut.

DG

[Dutchman]

Dutch I got that new LEE mould and cast with it today. This is what I got. My bullets weigh 143 grains. Bottom bands are .267 to.269. The bottom of the nose is .264 and at the very bottom. It starts tapering away from that .264 right away towards the nose of course. Alloy was wheel weights.

Thanks for the report. Will want to see results!!

Though, the truth be told that new Lee boolit is...... one of the Lee sisters. Ugly, Beastly, Homely. It does not excite me. It lacks an imaginative shape, as 266469 does. Even 266673 is a more visually appealing cast boolit. I am quite sure that these visual attributes contribute, nearly exclusively, to total target annihilation, be it paper of critter. This boolit will have to re-write the knowledge required to achieve cast master-class status in the Swedish Mauser platform. I watch for these things.

Dutch

[Larry Gibson]

I don't think any other Lyman bullet comes close to that 8mm's BC. Speaking of which those Lab Radar Chronographs tell you what the BC is, I like that, but unfortunately I don't own one.

Another thing I found Larry is that as exceptional that bullets shoots at long distance I would have thought it would be spectacular at 100 yards. It hasn't been for me and I do think that it's not fully asleep at 100 yards. What's your take on this.

Could be but honestly, over the many years, I've only found a few bullet/load combinations that had not gone to sleep by the time they reached 100 yards. What i have found to be the common thread when groups were larger at 100 yards than, say 200 yards, id the error was scope induced. The parallax in the scope was usually adjusted [factory set at 150 or 200 yards]. With a properly adjusted parallax for the range used the accuracy was good. Not saying that is the case for you but if the scope on your rifle has a fixed parallax (?) that's probably the problem.

[TD1886]

Good while back a writer was testing a then new 300 Wby Mag Weatherby tactical rifle. Had a big scope on it. It shot terrible at 100 yards, something like 3 inch groups. He was about ready to do a trash write up on it when he though he maybe should shoot it at 300 yards which he did. Viola! Chewed a nice tight group. If that's the truth I still wouldn't want it if didn't shoot at 100 yards. Who knows, maybe reload it with differe bullets.

On the 8mm Mauser the scope was adjustable for parallax. That bullet just didn't want to group tight at 100 yards. You're right most bullets should be stable by 100 yards, but some are not. I remember shooting the original Cruise Missile. At 100 yards it left coma's on the bullet holes at 100 yards and the target was plumb 90 degrees straight up. At 300 yards the bullet holes were round. Go figure.

While I got your attention, and this will make you laugh, Weatherby came out with a new cartridge that made me think of you. First it's 338 caliber and has a normal shoulder. Get ready, the name is 338 Weatherby RPM!!!! Now ain't that something!!! LOL

[TD1886]

Thanks for the report. Will want to see results!!

Though, the truth be told that new Lee boolit is...... one of the Lee sisters. Ugly, Beastly, Homely. It does not excite me. It lacks an imaginative shape, as 266469 does. Even 266673 is a more visually appealing cast boolit. I am quite sure that these visual attributes contribute, nearly exclusively, to total target annihilation, be it paper of critter. This boolit will have to re-write the knowledge required to achieve cast master-class status in the Swedish Mauser platform. I watch for these things.

Dutch

Okay Dutch, I don't have my hopes up. The bullet looks different when holding it in your hands and eyeballing it. First off there are zero 6.5 cartridges that you can seat the base of the bullet to the base of the neck and NOT have a lube groove exposed. When Loverins we have to put up with exposed lube grooves and lots of them. Next up that band that separates the lube grooves is much narrower in real life then the pictures. That bullet doesn't fit the normal LEE rifle bullets. Someone had to draw that up and submit it to then and got them to cut it. There no way that it will work in a 6.5 Grendel that I can see as the nose is too large to seat into the bore unless it's deeply seated in the case. A no no for a 6.5 Grendel as there's not much powder room there. Let me see how she shoots in the other 6.5's.

[tacofrank]

I have a chance to buy a Saeco # 081 190 grn 2 cavity mold decsribed as .323-.324 mold for a very reasonable price. A friend got it in an estate purchase. before I buy it I thought I'd check here and see if anyone has tried in in a M48.
Ancomment will be appreciated.
Thanks,
TF

[405grain]

"First off there are zero 6.5 cartridges that you can seat the base of the bullet to the base of the neck and NOT have a lube groove exposed."

The Lyman #266673 in a 6.5x55 Swede can seat the base of the bullet to the base of the neck and not leave the lube groove exposed. The 6.5 Grendel has different features than most of the other 6.5mm cartridges (6.5 MS, 6.5 Carcano, 6.5 Japanese, 6.5 Swedish, etc.), but it's reduced powder capacity may actually be a plus when shooting cast loads as it may be getting better powder load density. The older 6.5's were initially designed to fire long for caliber bullets with a high twist rate barrel. What's the twist rate on the Grendel? I don't shoot the Grendel, but maybe shooting a shorter and lighter bullet might work better in this caliber. Thoughts?

tacofrank: The Saeco #081 is an excellent mold for the 8x57 Mauser.

[hc18flyer]

I have a chance to buy a Saeco # 081 190 grn 2 cavity mold decsribed as .323-.324 mold for a very reasonable price. A friend got it in an estate purchase. before I buy it I thought I'd check here and see if anyone has tried in in a M48.
Ancomment will be appreciated.
Thanks,
TF

The SAECO #081 is a really good mold for an M48. I have 3 NOE 8mm and a Accurate Molds for my 8 x 57. I traded for some and they worked fine. I size my 8mm to .325. I think you will be happy with it. hc18flyer

[tacofrank]

Thanks hc18flyer,
I really appreciate your reply. I didn't see it earlier. I have a hat full of molds I thought should have been good in a particular rifle. Lol !
Thanks Again,
TF

[TD1886]

Thanks hc18flyer,
I really appreciate your reply. I didn't see it earlier. I have a hat full of molds I thought should have been good in a particular rifle. Lol !
Thanks Again,
TF

I have the Yugo 48 B Mauser and the Lyman 323471 and the LEE 170 grain are excellent in it and they fit without deep seating. After those two, and NOE's version of the Lyman 323471 I have no use for any other 8mm moulds.

[hc18flyer]

I have the Yugo 48 B Mauser and the Lyman 323471 and the LEE 170 grain are excellent in it and they fit without deep seating. After those two, and NOE's version of the Lyman 323471 I have no use for any other 8mm moulds.

I agree. My brothers 24/47 has a shorter throat, and it really likes the Lee 175 grain boolet! I have a couple of NOE's versions, work well!

[wmitty]

I have the 8 Max design mould. I fired a few rounds of 8 x 57 in a M 70 Zastava using MR 3100:
41.5 gr - 1620 fps ; 43.0 gr. - 1735 fps and 45.0 gr. - 1928 fps ( this was a single reading and is suspiciously high).

[NuJudge]

Some heavy bullet 8x57 threads that I like:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?144214-Load-needed-for-8-x-57mm-Lee-8MM-Karabiner-boolit
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?170878-8mm-maximum-225gr-mold

[Texas by God]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230526/ccbff3e9b8a7d9ee9297fe37a09bde17.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230526/59bdb8cf6bcdde60fc965fe196018c65.jpg
I finally got the front sight to move and for the issue sights(and shooting from the tractor fender)- I’m happy with the 175 Lee.
I’m thinking very seriously about a Redfield receiver sight on it.
There’s one in the drawer….


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