38/55 loading

[toot]

I have a mod, #2 MARLIN BALARD, sporting rifle with dual firing pin, for rim fire & center fire cases. 38 long & extra long I believe. question can I shoot 38/55 smokeless powder reduced loads in it ? 6 grains of TRAIL BOSS, with a 255 grain head. ? or should it be black powder?

[Thundermaker]

So, I just did a quick little search. Apparently the cartridge is about the diameter of a .357 case, with a heeled bullet. It seems that the people who shoot these are using .357 maximum brass, as it's the same length as the XL case.

As for loads, whenever I want to shoot an antique firearm, it's my policy to replicate the original ammunition as closely as possible and use that. It was designed for black powder. That's what I would use. That being said, I don't have any experience with trail boss powder.

[Gunlaker]

I'd try and get ahold of marlinman93 on this website. He has a ton of experience with these rifles.

Chris.

[Rockindaddy]

I have been shooting smokeless in old black powder rifles for many years. Not that I do not still shoot black powder; its just messy and requires alot of clean up. But I have found that Reloader No.7 produces the same velocity with low pressure as black powder. Have no experience with Trail Boss. But 4227, 4198, 5744, and 4759 along with Rel No 7 have been my go to propellants for old obsolete black powder cartridges in 19th century rifles shooting my cast boolits. Am 77 yrs old too. Maybe when I grow up I will try Trail Boss. Maybe someone on this site has experience with Trail Boss.

[Don McDowell]

With the right smokeless it might be alright, but there have been a lot of those old rifles came apart at the seams from smokeless.
Best to spend some time with good reloading manuals, that give pressure data. Trailboss altho it provides drizzlysslow velocity, does so at firewall pressures. It was designed for mousephart velocities with pistol cartridges for the dress up cowboy shooters. Does a fine job for that.
Stick with blackpowder to load for that old darlin.

[toot]

So, I just did a quick little search. Apparently the cartridge is about the diameter of a .357 case, with a heeled bullet. It seems that the people who shoot these are using .357 maximum brass, as it's the same length as the XL case.

As for loads, whenever I want to shoot an antique firearm, it's my policy to replicate the original ammunition as closely as possible and use that. It was designed for black powder. That's what I would use. That being said, I don't have any experience with trail boss powder.

thank you for the reply with info.

[toot]

I have been shooting smokeless in old black powder rifles for many years. Not that I do not still shoot black powder; its just messy and requires alot of clean up. But I have found that Reloader No.7 produces the same velocity with low pressure as black powder. Have no experience with Trail Boss. But 4227, 4198, 5744, and 4759 along with Rel No 7 have been my go to propellants for old obsolete black powder cartridges in 19th century rifles shooting my cast boolits. Am 77 yrs old too. Maybe when I grow up I will try Trail Boss. Maybe someone on this site has experience with Trail Boss.

I to am a grey beard.78++and have shot BP, since about 1951. haven't' blown myself up yet. I am UBER cautious. I hate clean up, but it is a necessary evil, if you want to save your gun. smokeless just run a patch down the barrel.

[toot]

I have been shooting smokeless in old black powder rifles for many years. Not that I do not still shoot black powder; its just messy and requires alot of clean up. But I have found that Reloader No.7 produces the same velocity with low pressure as black powder. Have no experience with Trail Boss. But 4227, 4198, 5744, and 4759 along with Rel No 7 have been my go to propellants for old obsolete black powder cartridges in 19th century rifles shooting my cast boolits. Am 77 yrs old too. Maybe when I grow up I will try Trail Boss. Maybe someone on this site has experience with Trail Boss. where can I find the smokeless loads for the powders you have listed? as I have all of them and would like to give them a try. the thing with TRAIL BOSS is that very little amounts of it is used and you DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE ANY KIND OF FILLER! as in my 45/70 trap door, with a 405 or 500 grain bullet I use 27 grs, of 4198 with a cotton ball to keep the powder against the base, keeping it against the primmer. that way no flash over.

[toot]

With the right smokeless it might be alright, but there have been a lot of those old rifles came apart at the seams from smokeless.
Best to spend some time with good reloading manuals, that give pressure data. Trailboss altho it provides drizzlysslow velocity, does so at firewall pressures. It was designed for mousephart velocities with pistol cartridges for the dress up cowboy shooters. Does a fine job for that.
Stick with blackpowder to load for that old darlin.

so true when I shoot it in COLT'S it sounds like a mouse sneaking across a bearskin rug with slippers on. and with gas. it sounds like a 22 CAL, going off. but you will get mega loads out of an 8 OZ, container.

[Don McDowell]

Yes you can get a good number of rounds per can, but that's the marketing come on with the stuff, an 8 oz can costs the same as a 1 lb can of other powders. By the same token you can get 1000 rounds out of a can of unique in a 44 special...
I was sent a can for testing when they first brought Trailboss out, and while it serves the purpose of small capacity cases with high load density with low velocity, the cost per round and lack of real accuracy in larger rounds pretty much limits it's usefulness.
Blackpowder clean up isn't the major problem it's made out to be, and while you can duplicate the pressure numbers with some smokeless powders, the pressure curve of smokeless is much quicker, and that's where the old soft iron guns get into trouble with stress fractures etc.

[Thundermaker]

I find that when people talk about the "hassles" of BP cleanup, what they really mean is that they don't like having to clean their guns after every range trip. :grin:

The cleanup itself is quite easy. I enjoy it. As opposed to cleaning smokeless residue with smelly, chemical solvents.

[Lead pot]

I have been shooting smokeless in old black powder rifles for many years.

Oh my, How many times have I heard this and seen it written.

I personally have seen this happen at the Quigley match. One was a .45-70 Pedersoli rifle and the other was a .40-65 original Ballard. Both fragmented and the shooters suffered severe hand damage. The Ballard fragmented about 20 feet from me during the match.

Cleaning a black powder rifle I find much easier than a rifle shot with smokeless powder, especially shooting jacketed bullets. I spend less time cleaning my BPCR's then I do my .308 or the .222.

[freakonaleash]

I find that when people talk about the "hassles" of BP cleanup, what they really mean is that they don't like having to clean their guns after every range trip. :grin:

The cleanup itself is quite easy. I enjoy it. As opposed to cleaning smokeless residue with smelly, chemical solvents.
What he says. It's a 15 minute job, no biggie.

[indian joe]

With the right smokeless it might be alright, but there have been a lot of those old rifles came apart at the seams from smokeless.
Best to spend some time with good reloading manuals, that give pressure data. Trailboss altho it provides drizzlysslow velocity, does so at firewall pressures. It was designed for mousephart velocities with pistol cartridges for the dress up cowboy shooters. Does a fine job for that.
Stick with blackpowder to load for that old darlin.

Don has the goods on Trailboss -- "mousephart velocity at firewall pressures" .....love it!

check your burn rate charts ..despite its bulkiness in loading this stuff is a fast burning powder - right up there in green dot / bullseye territory.
Leave Trailboss for the ppfffft - clang boys - thats who it was designed for.

[indian joe]

What he says. It's a 15 minute job, no biggie.

same here - more closer to 5 minutes than 15 tho

[freakonaleash]

I never bought onto the Trail Boss gimmick. Looks like high volume plus high pressure. High volume I can deal with, but high pressure I can do with out in old guns.

[freakonaleash]

same here - more closer to 5 minutes than 15 tho

I end up fiddling around. I'm easily distracted by minutia.:veryconfu

[indian joe]

I end up fiddling around. I'm easily distracted by minutia.:veryconfu

Well if we dont enjoy handling our guns .....what are we here for? the 5 minute thing only happens when I got several to do after a shoot session