Italian 1894;s compared to pre 64 94;s and post 64 94.

[koger]

I have been eyeballing a Uberti 1894, 26" barrel in 38/55. I have talked to a couple of other guys online, but wanted to see what this bunch has to say, as I value your opinions greatly.

How do you rate the action, of the Uberti or Cimmaron/Taylors, to a pre 64 1894. Most guys say they are very close, but the imports need a little breaking in. Everyone said they preferred them to the post 64 94's. All replies appreciated.

[freakonaleash]

I have 4 pre 64 M94 Winchesters. From 1929 into the early 50's. They function flawlessly. I don't have any uberti 94's , but I have gobs of other models that all work flawlessly, except for 1. The winchesters will keep their value, you take a hit on the uberti as soon as you buy it.

[BLAHUT]

Are you buying it to shoot or to sell for more at a later date? I buy to shoot. If I cannot get them to shoot really accurate, then they are not any good to me, I have only had one I could not get to shoot. That one may just make a really good tomatoe stake ?

[Shawlerbrook]

Mike Venturino in his book Leverguns of the Old West had very good reviews of the Italian clones. That said, it is hard to compete with the mystique of the original vintage Winchester leverguns.

[FergusonTO35]

Don't know about their long guns, but my favorite shop sells bunches of Uberti revolvers and seldom has any problems with them.

Mike Venturino sure likes the Cimarron 1894, and he knows a thing or two about lever actions and boolits:
https://gunsmagazine.com/guns/rifles/cimarron-model-1894-38-55

The .30-30 model seems to be very accurate, and the author notes that it's a top eject with no manual safety:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/cimarron-exclusive-winchester-1894-review

Honestly, I don't think an Italian 94 is any less safe a bet than a new Miroku which probably costs more and has light strike gremlins.

[pietro]

.

Since IDK how to say "Winchester" in Italian, I'll be stickin' with a genny....

.

[Bird]

I own a Uberti handgun. I will never buy another Uberti anything again.
If you want a 94 buy a pre or post winchester, or a Miroku.

[indian joe]

I have been eyeballing a Uberti 1894, 26" barrel in 38/55. I have talked to a couple of other guys online, but wanted to see what this bunch has to say, as I value your opinions greatly.

How do you rate the action, of the Uberti or Cimmaron/Taylors, to a pre 64 1894. Most guys say they are very close, but the imports need a little breaking in. Everyone said they preferred them to the post 64 94's. All replies appreciated.

nothing wrong with Italian lever guns! 3Ubertis, 1chiappa and 1japanese Browning at this house, guess which one gave me the most trouble so far - yep the japchester.
also 5 winchesters.

Could you get a Winchester commemorative (second hand) in the configuration you want for the same money as the new Uberti. ???

Winchester went into their plastic and diecast era post 1994 trying to compete on price but they didnt forget how to make barrels and they put extra effort into some of their commemmorative line - particularly the 38/55 and 32/40 chamberings these are well made guns from what I have seen (have an Oliver F Winchester in 38/55) - the 375 Big Bore was a quality firearm too ----I am talking about top eject models with no BS lawyer safety.

[35 Whelen]

I've had about 99% good luck, that is accuracy and function, with the Italian guns and I've owned and sold a truck load of them.


35W

[koger]

Guys I have had a lot of Winchesters 94s over the years, the pre 64's over the years, all top notch, working and shooting. About half of the post 64;s have been, crappy to say the least. The levers bind, are hard to work, and a lot of slack in the working parts. Some of them shot great, most mediocre. I am stfrictly wanting it as a shooter, one that will get shot a lot, and hunted with. I just want to know, from your experience, how they compare, accuracy wise, and smoothness of the action, to a pre 64. Thanks.

[Griff]

While I admit I don't have one of Uberti's versions, I do have 30 Winchester 94s in .30-30 and love them all... Well, except the 6 that are still in pieces as projects yet to assemble. I have several commemoratives, and a few post '64s. In fact my favorite, most used .30-30s are two post '64s. One is a '67 Canadian that's been altered to a Trapper and a '78 product that I custom built as a target rifle. Both are accurate, reliable and, well... the Trapper at least, is a handy number. I also own a couple of Uberti rifles, 2 1873s and an 1860. All three are great guns, and span 25+ years of production. While I don't think I'd want to mail-order one, I certainly wouldn't let that stop me if I was wanting a new top eject mdl 94 in .30-30.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

I have the Cimarron 1894 Deluxe , 26in barrel with semi pistol grip in 38-55. I used it for lever action silhouette last year. Here are some of my likes and dislikes.
First, the damn thing is accurate, scary accurate for a rifle with a magazine and hand guard handing from the barrel.310893 That is a 100 yard 9 shot group with a 250gr bullet and Trailboss. I finally got some Reloder 7 and shot a 4" five shot group at 300 yards ! I have 20 more rounds loaded to make sure that it was not a fluke. ( and hopefully be able to test at 200 yards, it took too many shots to get on paper at 300)
The rifle functions flawlessly (now) and seems to be patterned after the pre 64 Winchesters. I am a Winchester fan, not an authority.
I should mention that the rifle wears a MVA Soule rear sight and a Lee Shaver front sight. The Lee Shaver sight is the Lyman 17A style with a spirit level in it.
The bore groove diameter slugs at .379 and I am shooting .381 plain base cast bullets.
The chamber length dictates the short Starline brass. The long brass will chamber, but the case mouth will enter the throat area. Also, with .380 and .381 bullets Winchester brass will not chamber.
I am very happy with this rifle. The main reasons I bought a Uberti are as follows. My 1873 SpaghettiChester in 44WCF is accurate and reliable. I have a post 64 Winchester 1894 that I gave up on and stripped down for spare parts. I tried for more than two years and could not get sub 4 moa accuracy from it. The prices on the original Winchesters listed as having "a decent bore with some dark spots and pitting, should be a good shooter".

Now the bad
The rifle had an inertia firing pin including a return spring, and a hammer spring that far too thick/stiff/heavy. There was no way that I could shoot it offhand accurately. I replaced the firing pin with an original Winchester type. I also replaced the hammer spring with a Uberti 1873 reduced power spring. I don't know about authentic Winchesters but the Uberti 73 and 94 use the same hammer spring. The trigger pull is now light and crisp.
My rifle would not chamber a loaded round through the action. This was with the short Starline brass and either my 290gr (pictured) or 250gr bullets. Both have the same nose profile and overall length. The bullet would contact the top of the chamber and jam before the case rim cleared the cartridge guides. I opened up the cartridge guides and now my loaded ammo feeds through the action flawlessly.

Again, I am very happy with the rifle. I hope to test some ammo at 200 yards tomorrow. If I remember to, I will post a picture or three.

[35 Whelen]

I have the Cimarron 1894 Deluxe , 26in barrel with semi pistol grip in 38-55. I used it for lever action silhouette last year. Here are some of my likes and dislikes.
First, the damn thing is accurate, scary accurate for a rifle with a magazine and hand guard handing from the barrel.310893 That is a 100 yard 9 shot group with a 250gr bullet and Trailboss. I finally got some Reloder 7 and shot a 4" five shot group at 300 yards ! I have 20 more rounds loaded to make sure that it was not a fluke. ( and hopefully be able to test at 200 yards, it took too many shots to get on paper at 300)
The rifle functions flawlessly (now) and seems to be patterned after the pre 64 Winchesters. I am a Winchester fan, not an authority.
I should mention that the rifle wears a MVA Soule rear sight and a Lee Shaver front sight. The Lee Shaver sight is the Lyman 17A style with a spirit level in it.
The bore groove diameter slugs at .379 and I am shooting .381 plain base cast bullets.
The chamber length dictates the short Starline brass. The long brass will chamber, but the case mouth will enter the throat area. Also, with .380 and .381 bullets Winchester brass will not chamber.
I am very happy with this rifle. The main reasons I bought a Uberti are as follows. My 1873 SpaghettiChester in 44WCF is accurate and reliable. I have a post 64 Winchester 1894 that I gave up on and stripped down for spare parts. I tried for more than two years and could not get sub 4 moa accuracy from it. The prices on the original Winchesters listed as having "a decent bore with some dark spots and pitting, should be a good shooter".

Now the bad
The rifle had an inertia firing pin including a return spring, and a hammer spring that far too thick/stiff/heavy. There was no way that I could shoot it offhand accurately. I replaced the firing pin with an original Winchester type. I also replaced the hammer spring with a Uberti 1873 reduced power spring. I don't know about authentic Winchesters but the Uberti 73 and 94 use the same hammer spring. The trigger pull is now light and crisp.
My rifle would not chamber a loaded round through the action. This was with the short Starline brass and either my 290gr (pictured) or 250gr bullets. Both have the same nose profile and overall length. The bullet would contact the top of the chamber and jam before the case rim cleared the cartridge guides. I opened up the cartridge guides and now my loaded ammo feeds through the action flawlessly.

Again, I am very happy with the rifle. I hope to test some ammo at 200 yards tomorrow. If I remember to, I will post a picture or three.

Excellent information. Thanks for taking the time to post all of this!

35W

[FergusonTO35]

Post -64 94's are a real slot machine, and I've had a few of them. Back when you could buy nice examples for two bills this wasn't such a big deal but for what they are selling for today I would pass unless I knew the seller personally. If I was going to buy a new .30-30 today, my choices in order of preference would be Henry, Ruglin, Cimarron/Uberti, and Miroku Winchester.

[freakonaleash]

You can buy 40's and 50's era M94 Winchesters for around $1100 these days. I have one in 25-35, 30-30, and 32WS. Great guns and they don't look hinckey like the currently made stuff does. I also have a Winchester commemorative 94 in 38-55 that works like a champ. Don't forget the model 55 Winchester either, they also work excellent and go for around $1200.

[koger]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, especially David magnum.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

311004

Not as good as I was hoping for. Am I too demanding ?
The two high right shots were getting on paper and adjusting.
The seven shot group is just over three inches at its widest.
This was today at 200 yards with a peep/tang rear sight and Lyman 17A with a lollypop insert. From a bench with a front rest of course.
Reloder 7 with my 290gr bullet shows promise . I will adjust and retry.

PS. I have no idea why the image is on its side. It is upright on my phone and computer.

[FergusonTO35]

Uhm, dude I would be stoked if I could do that at 200 with a scoped bolt action!

[indian joe]

311004

Not as good as I was hoping for. Am I too demanding ?
The two high right shots were getting on paper and adjusting.
The seven shot group is just over three inches at its widest.
This was today at 200 yards with a peep/tang rear sight and Lyman 17A with a lollypop insert. From a bench with a front rest of course.
Reloder 7 with my 290gr bullet shows promise . I will adjust and retry.

PS. I have no idea why the image is on its side. It is upright on my phone and computer.

should give many prayers of thanksgiving that your eyes are good enough to be dissatisfied with that group !!!

[Rrusse11]

The short answer is yes, you're being too demanding.
Nice shooting with a peep sight! Possibly tweak the load and you'll be getting down to a 2" group.

[indian joe]

.

Since IDK how to say "Winchester" in Italian, I'll be stickin' with a genny....

.

can you say it in japanese ??

[Castaway]

I’d stay away from Uberti’s. I’m suspect if the metallurgy. A post above reinforces my opinion. I had one of their El Patron pistols and sent it back because the sights were off. They called me and said it had the worst case of gas cutting they’d ever seen. I assured them I only shot black powder in it. They replaced it. A year later, the new Uberti peened so badly around the firing pin hole the cylinder would bind due to the primer flowing into the recess. Again, I was accused of shooting hot loads, but again, there had never been a smokeless load through the pistol. They replaced that one. When my current Uberti fails, I’m going Colt of Standard Manufacturing

[barnabus]

I own a Uberti handgun. I will never buy another Uberti anything again.
If you want a 94 buy a pre or post winchester, or a Miroku.

i have several ubertis and they are flawless. whats your gripe

[Bazoo]

I for one appreciate this thread. I've wondered about the Italian copies of the 1894 myself.

My opinion, and the opinion of friends that have ubertis of other models is that they are questionable. I've not owned a uberti made gun. My buddy trades a lot and has had a lot of minor issues with ubertis. He also likes to disassemble any gun he gets and polish and tweak things. I like to have my gun function without having to give it a spa day. I would hate to get a uberti and fall in love with what I thought was a fine firearm, and find out that it wouldn't hold up to extended use, so I have stayed clear.

[35 Whelen]

My opinion of Uberti's come from experience with several of them. I currently own one Uberi rifle (1866) and six Uberti revolvers. I've bought, shot and sold probably a dozen more, finally settling on what I've decided to keep now. There was nothing wrong with any of those I sold, I just whittled down what I no longer shot.
The only two things I've done to any of the revolvers is replace the bolt/trigger spring with a wire example. Doing so gets the nearly perfect timing perfect and shaves 12 - 16 oz. off the trigger pull, and cut the forcing come to 11°.

I've also owned four 3rd Generation Colt's, two in .44 Special and two in 45 Colt. They all had beautiful color case hardening but the fit was close to that of the Uberti's. All four of them were over sprung and three of the four had gritty actions. The cylinders of the two 45 Colt's had throats that were as large as .457", which of course is bad news for we cast bullet shooters. So why would I pay 3x the price of a Uberti for revolvers that need far more attention than just a "spa day". So think about that if you decide to buy a 3rd Gen 1873 Colt.

I also owned four American-produced USFA's; a consecutive pair of CCH .38 Specials, a Rodeo in 45 Colt and a CCH in 45 Colt. I never fired the .38's as they were far too valuable for that. The .45 Colt's we accurate, but absolutely no more so than my Uberti's. So again, why pay 3x - 4x the price of a Uberti for a revolver that is beautiful, but functionally is no better than my Uberti's?

The Standard Products are for sure beautiful, and were they chambered in .44 Special, I'd be sore tempted. But will they do anything a revolver that cost 1/4 the price do??

Regarding metallurgy of the Italian firearms, put on your Google-foo and look up C.I.P. and their proofing standards for members firearms. We needn't worry about the strength of Italian firearms.

I'm currently in the market for a '92 in .44 Magnum. Rather than get a Rossi or gamble on a Browning or Winchester, I'm saving my pennies for a Cimarron.

35W

[txbirdman]

My two sons and I each bought a Cimmaron Evil Roy directly from Evil Roy himself. All 3 were 4 3/4” .38/.357’s. Two of them were very nice; well finished revolvers with tuned actions. However my younger son’s revolver’s cylinder would not rotate all the way when we were loading it. It seems that the rim of the cartridge was hitting the frame not allowing the cylinder to go any further. We found this disappointing on a revolver that was supposed to have been tuned by Cimmaron’s expert (yet unnamed) gunsmith. Anyway, we took it back and Evil Roy agreed to send it back for repairs. In a couple of weeks it came back and while it would work it looked as if someone had crudely taken a grinder and gouged out a bevel in the frame that allowed the cylinder to rotate when loaded. Not impressive work. However the other two are as nice as my 3rd generation Colt, maybe nicer.