Bertram Brass

[Thundermaker]

So, apparently Bertram has a US distributor now, and you can order directly from them..

I'll be needing some .45-100 brass in the near future, and it doesn't look like starline is going to get around to making any.

The Bertram site lists .45-120 brass in stick, which I could cut down. The big downside is that it's $4.85 a piece.

Besides the exorbitant price, is there any reason that it won't work?

https://bertrambrass.com/shop-1/ols/products/45-120-in-stock

[BLAHUT]

Other than cost. Internal dominion's with 120 verse 110 in web, wall thickness ?? I cut 45/70 down to work in my 45/60.

[Don McDowell]

Starline is taking orders for 45-100 now

[Thundermaker]

Starline is taking orders for 45-100 now

I've had a backorder with them for months. I've had a backorder for .44-40 for even longer. Just hit them up on Facebook. They're focusing on "higher demand items", which is a nice way of saying "the AR shooters buy more from us, so go kick rocks".

I also have a backorder through buffalo arms for Norma .45 basic brass. We'll see what happens.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Bertram 577/450 brass in the country of origin are $9.00ea.

[Thundermaker]

Bertram 577/450 brass in the country of origin are $9.00ea.

That's insane.

[Gunlaker]

A long time ago I had some Bertram brass for a .45-110 that I used to have. Two of the boxes were defective. The shells split lengthwise on the first firing, just above the web. I have heard that this problem was fixed ( too hard brass? ), but if you need it then get it. Just don't get a too invested in them and maybe anneal it before using it.

The Starline stuff is good once you actually get it, but it'll want to be annealed first too.

Chris.

[martinibelgian]

Fwiw, still have my original Bertram no.2 Musket brass. I 'retired' it, but the only cases I lost are those that I destroyed myself when reloading. So pretty good stuff. I'm sure they would still be perfectly useable.

[Bent Ramrod]

The Bertram stuff back in the mid-90s was really bad. I bought two boxes of .43 Spanish and had 8 cases from each box split just ahead of the bases on the first firing. Back then, they were $1.25/case, which was pretty stiff; more expensive than Weatherby brass, IIRC.

But it was “Desperate Times, Desperate Measures” back then. Nobody else was making obsolete shells. So I bought some more, later, and annealed them good. This cut the case loss to maybe 1-2 splits per subsequent firing, and continued annealing after use got me 55 or so cases that seem to be holding out OK.

Later, I bought .25-21 and .25-25 cases from them, and these split, after annealing, maybe 3-4 cases a box, but further treatment as above gave me a fairly reliable stash of diehards. The “only” issues remaining with them are variances in thickness and shape of rims, undersized bases, and wildly varying lengths, even in the same box, all of which are less than the prescribed lengths in reference books. Only one .25-25 split at the neck, allowing trimming back to .25-21; the rest were body splits.

Looking through my die books, it was noted that deep drawing very small-diameter shells is a very difficult and critical operation, occasioning a lot of problems and losses, so I gave Bertram full credit for trying. Nobody else seemed willing to try; you’d think if the old U.M.C. could do it, so could our computer-aided modern manufacturers. Guess not.

There are, of course, outfits like RMC that lathe-turn obsolete cases, but these have their own problems, which keep them from being the logical replacements. The prices are quite a bit higher as well.

I bought .40-90 Sharps Straight brass from Bertram later. Dimensionally, they seemed somewhat better, and the annealing reduced the number of body splits better than I had seen previously, although they still occurred. I ordered .310 Cadet shells from them, and they were not bad at all. However, the prices on Bertram shells went up markedly with every order I sent in. This continued into the early 2000s.

In the very late 90s, I found a box of 20 once-fired Bertram .405 cases for cheep at a gun show. The outside finish was scaly, literally like a fish, which doubtless accounted for the price. But, again, I was desperate. I annealed them, reformed them into .35 Winchester without a single loss, and have gone on shooting them at full power through multiple reloadings without a loss. I’ve had more losses from a box of long out-of-print Bell basic brass, treated and formed to .35W, than with the still weird looking Bertram shells.

So it does look like Bertram is getting a handle on their metallurgy and heat treatment, at least. I figured that the appearance of Starline and Jamison/Captech on the market would be the death knell for Bertram, given the quality of both and their willingness (especially Jamison/Captech) to address the obsolete components market. But alas; Starline seems to be sticking to a relative few old cases and Jamison/Captech went out of business.

Sort of like the reloading component version of the TV show “Survivor.” “The race is not to the swift,” and so forth. “Time and chance” does some freaky stuff.

[martinibelgian]

I've used my Bertram cases for 15 years with no issues except operator ones, no splits at all. But then I did anneal them regularly.

[Walks]

I bought 3 boxes of Bertram .40-82WCF from GRAF & SONS back in the early 1990's. It was soft so it expanded well with Black Powder Loads in an old M1886 made in 1889. Sealed the chamber well.
Cases have been loaded about 10 times. Bought 2 more boxes a bit later. Was given 100 starline .45-100 cases. Cut them down and lost 3 during reforming of 1st 20 cases. Annealed them before and after. Needed to be inside neck reamed too. Lost another 2 cases on 1st firing. And this was with Black Powder too.
I'd rather have Bertram anytime over starline.