drones

[rancher1913]

i read on another forum about using drones to keep an eye on things and have seen the footage from the war zone. decided to give it a try, bought a not to cheep drone cause i planned to use it a good ways out and wanted hopefully decent quality. took me about 2 hours to do all the set up and pairing and what not. was very easy to use once it was set up, one button to launch it and then your off and flying. figured i would stretch its legs to see if it would actually work for surveillance, went about a mile out to the bull pasture and dropped down almost right on the bulls, they kept looking around but never looked up, did the return to home command and it flew right back to me. next i inspected the chimney for creosote build up and then just did some sightseeing. video quality was very good, i could get a license plate off a car easily, so i think it will be excellent to keep an eye on things but not put myself in harms way. i know it could be shot down but thats better than me getting shot. biggest draw back was it was made in china.

[BLAHUT]

Sounds very interesting, wave of the future ????

[Bmi48219]

Did it come with the camera?

[jjamna]

Ditto on did it come with a camera and do you have a link to yours?

[jaysouth]

Game wardens love these things.

[Milsurp Junkie]

Which make/model?
J

[contender1]

I own a few private drones.

First off, there are FAA regulations concerning the LEGAL uses for one. I won't go into detail,,, but it's very easy to get into serious trouble if you violate these laws. Federal trouble. Felony. Loss of gun rights.

I own private property. I caught a drone illegally over my property taking video footage. I shot it down. It landed well into my property,, which happened to be my gun range. I then saw it was most likely a "commercial" one,, being operated by a business. I called the FAA. (I knew the laws.)
The drone has it's FAA license number on it. The owner tried to come onto my property. Yet,, I had a gate up. I told him he was trespassing. I made him leave. I also called the FAA, regional office & requested a federal marshal to investigate. A local LEO showed up,, & tried to get me to turn over the drone to the owner. I had already "secured" the drone, and politely asked the LEO if he was a Federal officer,, and if he was aware of the Federal laws. He wasn't. I asked him how the owner might have thought I had the drone. He said; "He has video footage he was recording." I smiled. I said for him to call his most senior ranking officer or the sheriff out there. The Sheriff responded.
When I asked him about his knowledge of Federal laws concerning drones,, he was a bit better educated. I informed him I had already called the FAA, and requested a US Marshal. AND I informed him that the deputy would be called as a witness to the statement by the suspected owner. The Sheriff called the US Marshals as well.
It ended with the FAA confiscating the drone, revoking the commercial license of this drone owner, severe fines, (over $5000) and a felony conviction.

I kept a copy of the video footage just in case it got "misplaced or lost" & had my attorney keep it.

My point in this lengthy post is to try & prevent GOOD people from getting into trouble with a drone. They are fun, they have a good purpose, and can be used for a lot of good things. But, photographing other people, places can be illegal. Traveling over private property is also illegal. There are altitude restrictions, and such.
So, I STRONGLY urge anybody who may get a drone to educate themselves on the legalities of their use.

[BLAHUT]

I own a few private drones.

First off, there are FAA regulations concerning the LEGAL uses for one. I won't go into detail,,, but it's very easy to get into serious trouble if you violate these laws. Federal trouble. Felony. Loss of gun rights.

I own private property. I caught a drone illegally over my property taking video footage. I shot it down. It landed well into my property,, which happened to be my gun range. I then saw it was most likely a "commercial" one,, being operated by a business. I called the FAA. (I knew the laws.)
The drone has it's FAA license number on it. The owner tried to come onto my property. Yet,, I had a gate up. I told him he was trespassing. I made him leave. I also called the FAA, regional office & requested a federal marshal to investigate. A local LEO showed up,, & tried to get me to turn over the drone to the owner. I had already "secured" the drone, and politely asked the LEO if he was a Federal officer,, and if he was aware of the Federal laws. He wasn't. I asked him how the owner might have thought I had the drone. He said; "He has video footage he was recording." I smiled. I said for him to call his most senior ranking officer or the sheriff out there. The Sheriff responded.
When I asked him about his knowledge of Federal laws concerning drones,, he was a bit better educated. I informed him I had already called the FAA, and requested a US Marshal. AND I informed him that the deputy would be called as a witness to the statement by the suspected owner. The Sheriff called the US Marshals as well.
It ended with the FAA confiscating the drone, revoking the commercial license of this drone owner, severe fines, (over $5000) and a felony conviction.

I kept a copy of the video footage just in case it got "misplaced or lost" & had my attorney keep it.

My point in this lengthy post is to try & prevent GOOD people from getting into trouble with a drone. They are fun, they have a good purpose, and can be used for a lot of good things. But, photographing other people, places can be illegal. Traveling over private property is also illegal. There are altitude restrictions, and such.
So, I STRONGLY urge anybody who may get a drone to educate themselves on the legalities of their use.

My question, what did you use to shoot it down ???

[T-Bird]

good load of 6's ought'a do it!

[MaryB]

I use one to inspect my ham radio towers. 1080p video to my tablet for a bigger picture. I can see if any leg bolts vibrated out or broke, if any antenna hardware is missing, if anything looks like it is slipping(can see scoring on the mast). Save me a tower climb(now it saves me paying someone to tower climb!). About the only thing I use it for... It gets used if we get called out to search for a missing person but that is a super rare event. I have used it once for that

[Three44s]

We have a drone at our ranch. We also have enough of our own property to fly on there is little excuse to bother anyone else with it.

In my case watching out for manned aircraft is about the single issue I have to deal with. Our drone is limited to flying below 400 feet above the lift off elevation.

Our camera is a 4K thus the resolution is breath taking when you play back from the Micro SD card. The live feed is only 720P to my tablet. That is quite a restriction.

I have driven cattle with our unit. They gather cattle and sheep with drones in AU and NZ.

Three44s

[firefly1957]

I have 60 acres and would occasionally like to use a drone but most need a smart phone for all the features and I do not have or want a smart phone .
I also have some issues with cell phone coverage here so some things may not work but I am not sure of this .

I would not need a drone with a lot of air time our distance just real good images.

[Three44s]

I have 60 acres and would occasionally like to use a drone but most need a smart phone for all the features and I do not have or want a smart phone .
I also have some issues with cell phone coverage here so some things may not work but I am not sure of this.

I would not need a drone with a lot of air time our distance just real good images.

We use a 10” IOS tablet. We were told that an Apple product gave better video smoothness.

Three44s

[.429&H110]

Trouble with drones?

Raytheon Coyote 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0osofUsbaRc

links don't usually work for me
I promise there is no bad language.

[Big Tom]

My understanding is that the airspace if free (besides the restricted zones like airports, military installations etc.). Shooting a drone down that is flying over your property is legally the same as shooting a Cessna 172 down or a Boeing 737. I highly recommend that whoever considers this, reaches out to a lawyer first.


...I caught a drone illegally over my property taking video footage. I shot it down. It landed well into my property,, which happened to be my gun range. I then saw it was most likely a "commercial" one,, being operated by a business. I called the FAA. (I knew the laws.)...

[Cast10]

Big Tom is correct. The FAA governs the National Airspace System.

Rules are changing. Everyone will need a certificate of one kind or another soon; Sept. 16, 2023. All small drones will have to have Remote ID, that’s why they’re all cheap right now, they don’t have it! I would suggest you visit FAA.gov.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/remote_id/drone_pilots

Also, most states have laws governing surveillance activities.

[Finster101]

If it is hovering over my property and within shot gun range it is too low and there too long for anyone to just be playing. I am not fond of them. I can see where they would be a useful tool, but I think most are just purchased as toys which is also fine as long as laws are obeyed.

[MT Gianni]

In 2005 I watched bison being worked at the National Bison Range in Moiese MT. They had a large drone, about 3 1/2 feet across flying 35-40 feet over the animals inspecting them for "Ticks, temperature, general health and condition". Some students out of a Florida University were monitoring and flying it while ranch hands looked at the footage and data. The animals acted like they had no idea it was there. I can see real benefits for working stock with it. I am not sure, but I think some of the bison were chipped and the data was readable too.

[contender1]

"My question, what did you use to shoot it down ??? "

I happened to have my Rem 870 with turkey loads in it. The drone didn't stand a chance.

As for the ownership of airspace. Yes,, the FAA has "jurisdiction" over airspace. BUT,, over your own property, you have a 400 ft max altitude you can use to fly a private drone. The FAA has a 500 ft ceiling for airspace control.
And in my case,, the US Marshal & I discussed the airspace thing. The drone was WELL below 100 ft, AND videoing my property. And my property,, is a GUN RANGE. I said; "Hey,, I can't help it I missed the clay bird & hit a drone." He realized I had a strong argument for shooting it down. And as noted,, it was WELL across the property lines, onto my property.

But,, a drone can be fun. It can also be a great tool when used properly & legally. Checking crops, cattle, private inspection of your home, etc. All kinds of good uses.
But since we do have privacy laws, and trespass laws,, my actions were well within my legal rights.

[trails4u]

My understanding is that the airspace if free (besides the restricted zones like airports, military installations etc.). Shooting a drone down that is flying over your property is legally the same as shooting a Cessna 172 down or a Boeing 737. I highly recommend that whoever considers this, reaches out to a lawyer first.

THIS is the LEGAL truth of the matter. As private property owners, we own ZERO airspace. It is, however, technically possible to 'trespass' with a drone, but generally, legally speaking, that would only be possible after a complaint had been filed/confirmed for some kind of surveillance/peeping tom/etc. ONLY after such had been legally established, and a restrictive order in place, would a drone incursion be considered a legal trespass. To shoot one down absent of such an order is unquestionably a crime.

BigTom is spot on....as for great stories about such things...well, whatever.

FWIW....I do hold a Part 107 commercial license and do fly regularly for fed. agencies.

[M-Tecs]

https://laws101.com/shoot-down-a-drone/

https://www.securitymagazine.com/articles/88696-before-you-pull-the-trigger-the-legal-implications-of-shooting-down-a-drone

[Johnch]

Drones can be fun
BUT Please watch where you fly it
As duck and goose hunters tend to dislike them flying around and spooking the birds
The kids and parents next to the marsh I hunt
Found out a Game Warden will write tickets for Hunter Harassment
From their kids buzzing the duck hunters with a drone

I also have heard several have had BAD CASES of High Speed Steel Poisoning
I was told 1 1/4 oz of #3 Steel is fatal to a drone at 40 yards

John

[uscra112]

As useful as they may be to farmers and others, I have a very hard spot in my heart for drones. My OTHER hobby used to be scratch-building and flying fixed-wing model aircraft, something that takes considerable skill and practice, and which thus gave me a lot of satisfaction in accomplishment. Then came these self-stabilizing drones, which any idiot with $$$ and a smartphone can operate, and a lot of idiots did/do. So my painstakingly crafted airplanes are now a threat to national security; I have to get a license to fly them, and all my $$$ radio equipment (which doesn't have this ID broadcasting feature) has to be scrapped. My model shop is closed up. It breaks my heart to even look into it.

Thankfully our founders wrote a Second Amendment, so I can still build and use my guns. For now.

[Good Cheer]

If there's a purpose for curtains on windows it should be curtains for any device spying on you.
That it isn't says who is making the rules.

[rancher1913]

while they can be used for nefarious purposes, my op was about how useful they can be if you have a large property. there are lots that dont like drones and i almost fall into that category, but it serves a very useful purpose and gives me piece of mind that i can keep a watch on intruders from my armchair. given the crime levels that keep going up and stupid people that think your land is theirs, a landowner has to find ways to be viligent. i have a camera system on the house but it cant record license plates of vehicles stopped on the road, the drone can. it saves me climbing on the roof to check creosote build up, it allows me to check my creek areas that are hard to access by vehicle, and can spot a camp site of a squatter. in the wrong hands a drone can be bad but in the right hands it can be a powerful tool for a rancher.

[uscra112]

All true. I don't hold any personal grudge against people who use them wisely. But I do wish that shooting them down when misused would be considered property destruction in the public interest. And I really do wish that fixed-wing RC had been exempted.

[contender1]

"while they can be used for nefarious purposes, my op was about how useful they can be if you have a large property. there are lots that dont like drones and i almost fall into that category, but it serves a very useful purpose and gives me piece of mind that i can keep a watch on intruders from my armchair. given the crime levels that keep going up and stupid people that think your land is theirs, a landowner has to find ways to be viligent. i have a camera system on the house but it cant record license plates of vehicles stopped on the road, the drone can. it saves me climbing on the roof to check creosote build up, it allows me to check my creek areas that are hard to access by vehicle, and can spot a camp site of a squatter. in the wrong hands a drone can be bad but in the right hands it can be a powerful tool for a rancher. "

I agree 100%!!!!!!

Your post is easily related to someone who has a fair amount of property. Sadly, too many people do not have much property & think they can do as they please.

[MaryB]

"Laws against jamming"

But if I fire up on the 13cm ham band with 250 watts to a high gain yagi giving me 100,000 watts effective radiated power I am not jamming, I am testing my ham radio station LOL that WOULD take a drone down! Heck I crashed one inspecting the tower before a contest. Friend who was down to contest with me fired up the 23cm setup to make sure the 550 watt amplifier was working and n relays were sticking. I just happened to be 50 feet in front of the 4 antennas... 218,000 watts effective radiated power... yes it is dangerous level to a human but being 33' in the air it doesn't reach ground level until 2,000 feet out. By then signal strength has dropped well into the safe zone... FCC requires a yearly RF safety calculation be done and filed in my paperwork in case they would ever receive a complaint

[popper]

SIL has one, it downloads to his computer. Quad copter, good resolution in the vids. Ones I have of property are too long to post but he went up too 200ft or so. And you have to avoid running into trees like he did, but it recovered well and kept on flying.

[Scorpion8]

Very informative thread. I'm also in the boat of "would love to get one".

[Rapier]

Owning a tree farm with 150' high trees on rolling hills, exactly how does this humming bird fly back to launch? Thinking about how they would work for my riding fence outings, which I do three times a week.

[rancher1913]

mine can go up to 400 foot high before you get in trouble with air traffic. it can return home at what ever altitude you set, but i fly mine home. i generally make a loop around the property so end up back where i started anyway. i ride my fence with it but for the most part my fences are treeless so there are no obstructions for it to hit. it does have radar so it stops before it hits something. with the prop guards it could probably bounce off of some things.

[uscra112]

Jeeeez, radar too?
One of my old gliders had a control receiver with GPS. Handy if I got it so high that I lost visual contact. Send it the "home" command and it would fly a straight line to a preset lat/lon, close enough that I could regain visual on it. That was 13 years ago. I assume these drones have the same thing. but much smaller and lighter.

[contender1]

"Owning a tree farm with 150' high trees on rolling hills, exactly how does this humming bird fly back to launch? "

Most people fly the drones back to themselves by visual sight. Many people use an IPhone or such to operate their drones, to be able to see what the drone sees as well. That can help. HOWEVER,, good drones have a very neat feature called; "Return to home" that you can activate & it will return to the launch spot.

[rbuck351]

Put up a bunch of barrage balloons with monofilament fishing line around areas you don't want a drone to be. It shouldn't be illegal to fly a couple of kids balloons up to 300'or so.

[MrWolf]

Do you need wifi or line of sight for them. I have 81 acres but mountain and trees. No wifi out here until Elon gets his butt in gear with Starlink. Been waiting since 2021.

[uscra112]

The system I had in that glider could be programmed to fly to a sequence of GPS waypoints independently. Can these drones do that? Would the FAA allow it? Ought not to, given that it makes the drone a poor man's guided missile, but ?????

[uscra112]

Put up a bunch of barrage balloons with monofilament fishing line around areas you don't want a drone to be. It shouldn't be illegal to fly a couple of kids balloons up to 300'or so.

Not just monofilament - hang curtains of mist netting. The kind homeowners use to deter deer, and fruit growers deploy to keep birds out of their trees. You'd probably catch a few birds, which would send the Audubon Karens into a frenzy, but. . . . .

[Markopolo]

I am a drone person.. I own more of them then my wife knows about.. I also research the laws. I can tell you that if somebody shoots my drone, I would absolutely press charges and call the state troopers. It is NOT allowed.

To speak to the OP’s original post..

Drones are an essential tool in my tool chest of subsistence lifestyle. I discover much new deer habitat, and can count salmon numbers without paddling miles away. It also allows me to inspect creeks for beaver and all sorts of other Ariel surveys. In my neck of the woods, lots of areas are virtually impassable otherwise. But finding safe and realistic travel corridors has opened up my hunting areas that are never traveled. I do not use drones to hunt, but do use them for discovery. I also respect others privacy. I do not fly into somebody’s “airspace”, and have respect.

I have 2 primary drone “screwdrivers” in my tool chest. An aging DJI Mavic Pro and a brand new DJI Mavic Mini 3 pro. I have done modifications to the controller and added aftermarket antenna’s and hacked the firmware of both of my primary drones to customize the limitations. My Mavic mini 3 pro can reach distances of over 5 miles or more and it is a joy to fly with the new controller and extended flight times of the new breed of batteries. I can be in the air about 40 min with the little guy and I just love it. It travels with me in the woods and fits right into my backpack. At a weight of under 250grams it requires no fcc registration. It is small enough to fit in a coat pocket.

my old dji Mavic pro is a completely different beast. It is big and heavier and requires cables and such, controllers and what not to attach to my iPad so it is no where near as mobile as my Mini 3 pro. But, when it’s terrible weather outside it just goes and goes. It is very powerful and I have flown it in rainstorms and wind with no issues. And in my part of alaska, wind and rain are almost daily occurrence. Both of my primary drones have been modified with neoprene rain gear and engine covers to keep it water tight as possible.

I hope that if you are interested in done stuff, that you will follow your interests, and don’t let folks with anger or fear deter you from proper use of drones. Some people sound similar to those that are paranoid about the number of guns a person own, or the stockpiling of ammo and components.. don’t be part of the problem.

Here are a couple vids showing some areas that I do hunt and trap. They are about 4 min in length, and show MUCH detail that a hunter or fisherman can use.



https://youtu.be/Tz3T-LdKDtM


https://youtu.be/1ikzqdSG0X0



MarkoPolo

[contender1]

"Do you need wifi or line of sight for them."

It depends upon the control unit. Most of mine use a dedicated control unit. No wifi or internet etc necessary. I do have one that I operate with a tablet,, or IPhone,, but I'm not sure if it needs the wifi or not. (I've never questioned that.) It's never failed to operate either.

[Markopolo]

Yes.. a system of waypoint checkpoints is possible.

[Markopolo]

Very informative thread. I'm also in the boat of "would love to get one".

Yea yea yea scorpion…. Keep talking old friend!!!

[Markopolo]

"Do you need wifi or line of sight for them."

It depends upon the control unit. Most of mine use a dedicated control unit. No wifi or internet etc necessary. I do have one that I operate with a tablet,, or IPhone,, but I'm not sure if it needs the wifi or not. (I've never questioned that.) It's never failed to operate either.

The DJI’s use a wifi type signal called Occu-sync and it is a proprietary Wi-Fi system..

[Markopolo]

Jeeeez, radar too?
One of my old gliders had a control receiver with GPS. Handy if I got it so high that I lost visual contact. Send it the "home" command and it would fly a straight line to a preset lat/lon, close enough that I could regain visual on it. That was 13 years ago. I assume these drones have the same thing. but much smaller and lighter.

you are correct.. they can.

[rbuck351]

I have nothing against drones until they start spying on me. Here I can use 4th of July type fireworks anytime I want. I would suggest not flying a drone into a fireworks display especially over private property.

[country gent]

A few years back twice I caught a drone looking in windows, first time was in the patio doors of the house the second time was in the garage windows between the house and garage. I called the township county and sheriff, all were the same its gone now nothing we can do. both times the drones were under 20' altitude and 20-30' from the buildings. Im pretty sure who was operating them but no proof. It was a simple fluke I saw them and have no idea how many times I didnt.

While they have uses and offer a lot of benefits ( the contractor used a small one to inspect the roof before we put the new one on) they can also be used to intimidate and threaten or illegal surveillance with almost no worry of the person doing it being caught.

From whats being said here there is no recourse for the person being harassed

[uscra112]

Be hard to do, but a laser into the camera probably wouldn't do it any good.

I read once that a particular stadium had a hawk trained to attack drones.

Rather glad I live rural, where I just don't have that kind of neighbors.

[country gent]

I am rural but when you get a busy body neighbor that wants to turn the neighborhood into a gated community complete with HOA and her as the head, a lot of things go on.

[MT Gianni]

THIS is the LEGAL truth of the matter. As private property owners, we own ZERO airspace. It is, however, technically possible to 'trespass' with a drone, but generally, legally speaking, that would only be possible after a complaint had been filed/confirmed for some kind of surveillance/peeping tom/etc. ONLY after such had been legally established, and a restrictive order in place, would a drone incursion be considered a legal trespass. To shoot one down absent of such an order is unquestionably a crime.
.

It is your position then, that I as your neighbor could build a suspension bridge across your property to my other friends property as long as nothing was on the ground in your property?
I believe we each own some air space. That may vary as far as State or other jurisdictional areas but I could not put a still on such a bridge and claim it was not on my property.

[uscra112]

There are few forms of human on earth more obnoxious than HOA administrators. Or wannabees.

[Rapier]

I checked the Mini 3 Pro on PC Magazine, it is an editor's choice. Which is a good thing.

Is the elevation reading altitude or above terrain? My floor is 247', so if altitude, it is not much allowance if 400' total is a problem, especially with 150 ft tall trees

Still not sure about the return button, is that a straight line return, or by the route it took reversed return? Flying around a fence line is one thing, but returning across the trees is entirely another matter.

[rancher1913]

i may need to pick your brain markopolo, i have the mini pro 3 as well but can only push it to a little over a mile before it turns yellow. i would love to get about 2 miles because then i could see the nearest city and keep an eye out for the zombie hoards that may head my way.

[trails4u]

It is your position then, that I as your neighbor could build a suspension bridge across your property to my other friends property as long as nothing was on the ground in your property?
I believe we each own some air space. That may vary as far as State or other jurisdictional areas but I could not put a still on such a bridge and claim it was not on my property.

It's gray legal area for sure these days.... The very old doctrine was 'to the core of the earth and to the heavens' if you will...which is where mineral rights to subterranean assets stems from. Of course the very old doctrine was pre air-travel, so the concept of airspace wasn't really a consideration then. The modern 'interpretation' seems to be that yes, we can 'own' some airspace above ground level, but only to the extent that it's of a reasonable height that we would need it for some practical purpose. Say....you own a 4-story house and are an amateur radio operator and have an antenna on top of your house, that would in theory meet said, very gray, very unspecific 'legal' definition of 'owning' that airspace. So, what's the answer....? I honestly can't tell you. Your suspension bridge concept I would personally consider a trespass, for sure. But what if your suspension bridge is 100' above the ground? Then I don't know.... I do think the drone thing will eventually clear some of this up. There will be, and I'm sure there have been legal challenges. Hopefully these will eventually result in more clarity. I also think it will present some conflicts for the courts. It is absolutely a criminal offense to shoot down ANY aircraft, and a drone is classified as such. However, being a peeping tom is also illegal....and REALLY hard to catch and prove if said pervert is using a drone for nefarious reasons. That will have to be reconciled at some point.

My original point was a response to the OP suggesting that you have a legal right to shoot down and confiscate any drone above your property. This is not legal, and I just wanted to reinforce that so that others don't get themselves in trouble.

[uscra112]

I surmise the requirement that drones transmit a unique ID corresponding to an owner registration must come into play here. What sort of receiver or app is necessary to capture that ID?

[Ed K]

I am a drone person.. I own more of them then my wife knows about.. I also research the laws. I can tell you that if somebody shoots my drone, I would absolutely press charges and call the state troopers. It is NOT allowed.

I have done modifications to the controller and added aftermarket antenna’s and hacked the firmware of both of my primary drones to customize the limitations.

MarkoPolo

Have you also researched this?

DJI UAS PRODUCTS TERMS OF USE
Lastly updated: January 1, 2022
.
.
.
4. YOUR OBLIGATIONS.
By using the Product, and by entering into these Terms, you represent and warrant that your use of the Product and your involvement of events or activities incidental to your use of the Product comply and will comply with all applicable laws, statutes, and regulations, and that you will not use the Product except as expressly permitted under these Terms or otherwise authorized by DJI. You further agree not to:

Attempt to “hack”, “crack”, reverse engineer or modify the Product or the DJI Apps, or discover, download or publish source code, bypass or circumvent measures employed to prevent or limit access to any area, content or code of the Product;

Extracted from: https://www.dji.com/terms

[trails4u]

I surmise the requirement that drones transmit a unique ID corresponding to an owner registration must come into play here. What sort of receiver or app is necessary to capture that ID?

If you, or anyone, has paid more than a few hundred bucks for it...then in all likelihood it's GPS enabled. This is how they know where they are, where they left from and how they find their way home as others have mentioned above. The ones I fly far exceed the weight limit to be classified 'recreational' so they require a Part 107 FAA license to operate, are considered commercial, and are required to display an FAA registration # physically on the aircraft. I assure you they know exactly where I've been every time I fly! I believe that technology is also coming for recreational use. I hate it....I'm definitely not a big fan of big brother, but this is a brave new world where X person's freedom vs. X person's privacy is being challenged in new ways.

[uscra112]

Have you also researched this?

DJI UAS PRODUCTS TERMS OF USE
Lastly updated: January 1, 2022
.
.
.
4. YOUR OBLIGATIONS.
By using the Product, and by entering into these Terms, you represent and warrant that your use of the Product and your involvement of events or activities incidental to your use of the Product comply and will comply with all applicable laws, statutes, and regulations, and that you will not use the Product except as expressly permitted under these Terms or otherwise authorized by DJI. You further agree not to:

Attempt to “hack”, “crack”, reverse engineer or modify the Product or the DJI Apps, or discover, download or publish source code, bypass or circumvent measures employed to prevent or limit access to any area, content or code of the Product;

Extracted from: https://www.dji.com/terms

And there you have another beef I have with a certain class of humans, be they drone operators or Harley riders or snowmobilers They positively revel in violating property laws and/or other peoples' personal space.

[trails4u]

And there you have another beef I have with a certain class of humans, be they drone operators or Harley riders or snowmobilers They positively revel in violating property laws and/or other peoples' personal space.

I see your point....but have you read the terms of service on your toaster oven? I'm guessing it says the same. As for bad apples...yeah, they're out there, everywhere. I like to think it's the job of us good apples to spread knowledge and educate, perhaps preventing others from unknowingly becoming a bad apple....

[Markopolo]

I checked the Mini 3 Pro on PC Magazine, it is an editor's choice. Which is a good thing.

Is the elevation reading altitude or above terrain? My floor is 247', so if altitude, it is not much allowance if 400' total is a problem, especially with 150 ft tall trees

Still not sure about the return button, is that a straight line return, or by the route it took reversed return? Flying around a fence line is one thing, but returning across the trees is entirely another matter.

Above terrain is correct, and the return trip starts at a height you predetermine.. mine is set to about 200ft. I press the home, it climbs up, makes a beeline, then descends and lands at the point of take off using GPS

[trails4u]

Above terrain

Correct, it's AGL, above ground level. And depending on the drone in question, you can program the RTL (return to launch) to your preference. It's generally straight-line, but you can predetermine an altitude for the RTL, meaning it will climb to that altitude in place before it starts its RTL.

[Markopolo]

I am well versed with the Chinese DJI user agreement mr ed. ….

[MaryB]

There are few forms of human on earth more obnoxious than HOA administrators. Or wannabees.

HOA Nazis complete with a Hitler as a leader...

[MaryB]

Have you also researched this?

DJI UAS PRODUCTS TERMS OF USE
Lastly updated: January 1, 2022
.
.
.
4. YOUR OBLIGATIONS.
By using the Product, and by entering into these Terms, you represent and warrant that your use of the Product and your involvement of events or activities incidental to your use of the Product comply and will comply with all applicable laws, statutes, and regulations, and that you will not use the Product except as expressly permitted under these Terms or otherwise authorized by DJI. You further agree not to:

Attempt to “hack”, “crack”, reverse engineer or modify the Product or the DJI Apps, or discover, download or publish source code, bypass or circumvent measures employed to prevent or limit access to any area, content or code of the Product;

Extracted from: https://www.dji.com/terms

Only has teeth if you sell those mods. You can do what you want to your own property. I had a printer driver issue with Win 7, the printer manufacturer has the same boilerplate language, I modded the driver to make it win 7 compatible. I didn't sell or make money doing it for anybody else. I did give it away on a forum for others to use free of charge. Not a file, it was the written code, they had to edit their own driver. First amendment!

[MaryB]

And there you have another beef I have with a certain class of humans, be they drone operators or Harley riders or snowmobilers They positively revel in violating property laws and/or other peoples' personal space.

I had some bad apple snowmobilers driving across my front yard and wearing the snow down to the grass and tearing it up. I put up a fence, marked with orange caution tape AND a sign 100 feet before the fence saying "Upcoming fence, please drive on the road until past the property"

2 days later a kid drives into it getting the poly electric fence wire all wrapped up in his track... He was out there swearing at me, his dad came by and started screaming at me, deputy I had called before going outside drives up and loudmouths start screaming at him to arrest me for damaging their sled... I pointed out the sign, the orange caution tape ran between fence posts marking the fence... deputy arrested the kid for trespass and told me to do what I wanted with the snowmobile since it was on my property. That got the dad really wound up and screaming... I pushed the sled off the top of the drift into the street(well rolled it LOL) and told him to get that crap out of here. I didn't want an old broken down piece of junk snowmobile. Deputy pulled the serial number off it, came back stolen...

Some people do not know when to shut up, get off the property they are trespassing on and then follow the law. If the kid and dad would have apologized then dragged the sled into the street and onto the trailer and left nothing would have happened... instead papa went to prison when they discovered a bunch of stolen stuff in his garage, last I heard the kids were all in prison too for drugs. Their house was condemned and torn down so no more issues with that bad family in town. Since then we have had zero issues with anyone in town stealing.

[Winger Ed.]

There are few forms of human on earth more obnoxious than HOA administrators. Or wannabees.

When we were looking at houses around here when we retired and moved out of the city,
HOAs were a deal breaker for us.
Where we are now, I later learned that when the neighborhood was new, all the residents got together, and formed a HOA.
Their first order of business was to never collect dues, never have a meeting, or elect officers.
A couple times some refugee from Calif. or the frozen Northern territories challenged that- the vote was unanimous to keep it that way.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I wish we could go back to drones only being in beehives.

[Ed K]

Only has teeth if you sell those mods.

It's not that simple. How long do you think it would take Microsoft to come after you when you posted reverse-engineered Windows as free open-source code on a server with some serious bandwidth? Think Napster.


You can do what you want to your own property.

It's not your property. It is a license to use.


I had a printer driver issue with Win 7, the printer manufacturer has the same boilerplate language, I modded the driver to make it win 7 compatible. I didn't sell or make money doing it for anybody else. I did give it away on a forum for others to use free of charge. Not a file, it was the written code, they had to edit their own driver. First amendment!

In this example you added value to their printer by offering software support at no charge to the company. If you did violate their EULA they were more likely to send you a box of chocolates than spend fifty grand getting a corporate legal team to come after you.

Now we could go back and forth on this ad infinitem. If you want to have the last word go ahead, I'll promise right now not to reply. I think my original intent in posting regarding DJI's EULA is becoming lost anyhow: when one threatens another with the law after that person has already dealt disrespectfully with that person (e.g. operating a drone "in my face") and in this case used technology to do it which was obtained in a less than upright manner they have at a minimum become a Cast Boolits member that should be ignored. Where would we have to go from there? Should I send that person cash for their item in "Swappin and Sellin"?

[Ickisrulz]

I own a few private drones.

First off, there are FAA regulations concerning the LEGAL uses for one. I won't go into detail,,, but it's very easy to get into serious trouble if you violate these laws. Federal trouble. Felony. Loss of gun rights.

I own private property. I caught a drone illegally over my property taking video footage. I shot it down. It landed well into my property,, which happened to be my gun range. I then saw it was most likely a "commercial" one,, being operated by a business. I called the FAA. (I knew the laws.)

So, I STRONGLY urge anybody who may get a drone to educate themselves on the legalities of their use.

You admonish people who own drones to become familiar with the law and then tell us how you shot down a drone over your property.

Shooting down a drone is a federal crime, you should probably know that. I am surprised the LEOs you interacted didn't know that too and arrest you. I'm also surprised you weren't sued for the destruction of the drone.

What made the drone's presence over your property illegal? Do you own an area where the air space is restricted?

Are you sure it all happened the way you said it did?

[popper]

Rapier -- his is a DJI mavric model, GPS & waypoint with tilt-able camera & gyro stabilizing. Hit a branch, it dropped down a bit and recovered flying. Has auto return-home that lands on the back of his gater where he launched. Has a camera display so you see where it's going.

[1I-Jack]

I just want a drone I can take to the range to fly out to targets to see where my shots are landing without having to walk out 200-300 yards.

[T-Bird]

Jack, that's a GREAT idea!

[contender1]

Ickisrulz,
If you read my posts,, you will see that I stated plainly the drone operator was taking video of MY property. He was OVER MY GUN RANGE.

Videoing my property is illegal. Privacy laws here.
The operator had a commercial license, and KNEW he was in violation.
This happened prior to the addition of Federal laws where shooting down a drone was added.
Flying over a gun range at less than 30 yds, puts ANYTHING in danger of being shot. (His video showed PLAINLY my pistol bays, and from the angle,, how LOW he was.)

Yes,, I own drones. But I also obey the law, and expect others to do the same.

I can't prove it,, but I suspect that a commercial business owner nearby had hired him to video my place. That business owner had expressed to others he wanted to sell his business,,, but had "issues" with neighbors. My gun range was there LONG before that building was built & a business opened. The Federal Marshal said he could not divulge anything he discovered in his investigation. I let the FAA & the Marshals handle most of it.

[trails4u]

18 USC 32 is crystal clear. You broke the law when you shot down the drone. Drones were not ever 'added' to 18 USC 32, but the FAA did offer clarification in 2016 that yes, in fact, any UAS is considered an aircraft, therefore covered under 18 USC 32 so a crime to disable them while in flight in any way.

As for trespass....you may have a case as state laws are quickly changing and evolving, although most I know of only allow for 'legal' trespass after the offending party has been legally notified that they are not welcome.

Once again....I'm not here to argue or pick a fight, just trying to bring this discussion back to facts when it comes to shooting a drone. It's not legal.

I agree with you, in principle, that what happened at your range should be considered a trespass. Depending on your state laws, that might not be legally true. Unfortunately....the law may not have kept up with the technology in this case.

[Ickisrulz]

Ickisrulz,
If you read my posts,, you will see that I stated plainly the drone operator was taking video of MY property. He was OVER MY GUN RANGE.

Videoing my property is illegal. Privacy laws here.
The operator had a commercial license, and KNEW he was in violation.
This happened prior to the addition of Federal laws where shooting down a drone was added.
Flying over a gun range at less than 30 yds, puts ANYTHING in danger of being shot. (His video showed PLAINLY my pistol bays, and from the angle,, how LOW he was.)

Yes,, I own drones. But I also obey the law, and expect others to do the same.

I can't prove it,, but I suspect that a commercial business owner nearby had hired him to video my place. That business owner had expressed to others he wanted to sell his business,,, but had "issues" with neighbors. My gun range was there LONG before that building was built & a business opened. The Federal Marshal said he could not divulge anything he discovered in his investigation. I let the FAA & the Marshals handle most of it.

Even if he was breaking NC privacy laws, why would the FAA confiscate his drone and fine him $5000 if he was following the federal laws?

If someone trespasses on my property, can I lawfully destroy their vehicle? Is that a thing in NC?

[uscra112]

I want to propose that the laws should read: "if a drone is within shotgun range over private property, it is ipso facto trespassing, and may be destroyed just like a stock-chasing dog."

[contender1]

I won't discuss this any further. I followed the laws, and I guess the FAA & the US Marshals were both wrong. Otherwise,, I would have been charged.

[kerplode]

I own private property. I caught a drone illegally over my property taking video footage. I shot it down. It landed well into my property,, which happened to be my gun range. I then saw it was most likely a "commercial" one,, being operated by a business. I called the FAA. (I knew the laws.)
The drone has it's FAA license number on it. The owner tried to come onto my property. Yet,, I had a gate up. I told him he was trespassing. I made him leave. I also called the FAA, regional office & requested a federal marshal to investigate. A local LEO showed up,, & tried to get me to turn over the drone to the owner. I had already "secured" the drone, and politely asked the LEO if he was a Federal officer,, and if he was aware of the Federal laws. He wasn't. I asked him how the owner might have thought I had the drone. He said; "He has video footage he was recording." I smiled. I said for him to call his most senior ranking officer or the sheriff out there. The Sheriff responded.
When I asked him about his knowledge of Federal laws concerning drones,, he was a bit better educated. I informed him I had already called the FAA, and requested a US Marshal. AND I informed him that the deputy would be called as a witness to the statement by the suspected owner. The Sheriff called the US Marshals as well.
It ended with the FAA confiscating the drone, revoking the commercial license of this drone owner, severe fines, (over $5000) and a felony conviction.

I kept a copy of the video footage just in case it got "misplaced or lost" & had my attorney keep it.


Cool story, bro

[rancher1913]

why do threads always have to get derailed, i started this to show the benefits of drones to property owners, specifically larger land owners that might need a way to check their own property.

[Winger Ed.]

why do threads always have to get derailed,.

It's the nature of the beast and is often when you learn the most.

[rancher1913]

maybe but "our town" is not a place to argue.

[contender1]

"why do threads always have to get derailed, i started this to show the benefits of drones to property owners, specifically larger land owners that might need a way to check their own property."

My apologies for being part of the derailing.

Your post wasn't totally clear as to what you were trying to convey. And others made comments that caused me to put in my posts. Maybe you didn't realize the fact that not everyone has a lot of acreage that can easily benefit from a good device like a drone. Heck, my place is only about 30 acres,, and I use my drones to look it over.

I said I wouldn't post anymore about this. And I'll say I won't discuss my case anymore.

Again, my apologies for my part in the derail.

[Omega]

"why do threads always have to get derailed, i started this to show the benefits of drones to property owners, specifically larger land owners that might need a way to check their own property."

My apologies for being part of the derailing.

Your post wasn't totally clear as to what you were trying to convey. And others made comments that caused me to put in my posts. Maybe you didn't realize the fact that not everyone has a lot of acreage that can easily benefit from a good device like a drone. Heck, my place is only about 30 acres,, and I use my drones to look it over.

I said I wouldn't post anymore about this. And I'll say I won't discuss my case anymore.

Again, my apologies for my part in the derail.Don't need much acreage, I use mine to fly the fence line on my 7.2 acres looking for trees or branches on it. Due to the terrain, it's much easier to do it that way instead of risking a twisted ankle or other injury, and I can target areas that need attention faster. Just got 30 acres and will use it there to scout trails and possibly to inspect my stands without needing to leave any scent.

[Minerat]

Keep it on topic please! Thank you.

Steve
Cast Boolits moderator

[Big Tom]

Sorry, but that is incorrect. FAA controls everything above ground. Try flying a drone in a prohibited space / altitude - special use airspace - (e.g. airport, military installation, white house etc.) and they will explain the details. Same if there is a temporary flight restriction, e.g. during President's visits.

The drone pilots can take videos and photos of your property as they please (some limitations regarding commercial use and "spying"/invading privacy e.g. by checking out bedrooms, but these are just reasons to sue the operator, not shoot anything down...). You have absolutely zero legal authority to shoot a drone down and unless the local law enforcement has no clue regarding this (quite common...), you will get into serious legal trouble.

Also, 400 ft altitude maximum altitude is not correct either. You are legally allowed to fly the drone 400 ft above any hill/mountain/building/tower etc., so when inspecting a 200 ft. tower, you are allowed to go up to 600 ft.

And yes, I am a licensed, commercial drone pilot and know what I'm talking about - take any legal action you want if you have a "drone problem", but I highly recommend not shooting it down and get caught doing it.



... Yes,, the FAA has "jurisdiction" over airspace. BUT,, over your own property, you have a 400 ft max altitude you can use to fly a private drone. The FAA has a 500 ft ceiling for airspace control.
And in my case,, the US Marshal & I discussed the airspace thing. The drone was WELL below 100 ft, AND videoing my property. And my property,, is a GUN RANGE. I said; "Hey,, I can't help it I missed the clay bird & hit a drone." He realized I had a strong argument for shooting it down. And as noted,, it was WELL across the property lines, onto my property.

But,, a drone can be fun. It can also be a great tool when used properly & legally. Checking crops, cattle, private inspection of your home, etc. All kinds of good uses.
But since we do have privacy laws, and trespass laws,, my actions were well within my legal rights.

[uscra112]

OK, a legal, licensed operator can fly his legal, registered drone can go anywhere, no matter how offensive it may be.

What about the unlicensed operators of unregistered drones? And please don't tell me there aren't a LOT of them. Just as there are thousands of criminals carrying guns illegally in every city. How do we defend ourselves against illegal droning by people with ill intent toward us?

[Big Tom]

Just does not make a whole lot of sense. Google Earth would have sufficient quality images readily available for almost any place on earth. Absolutely no need to send a drone. You stay with your believe that taking photos or videos of your property is a crime, it will most likely never become a problem for you - but be rest assured, you are incorrect.


....
Videoing my property is illegal. Privacy laws here....

[Big Tom]

Same thing - you can take legal actions, but not take law into your own hands. Same as if somebody peeks into your windows - calling the sherrif is fine, shooting that person not so much...

Also, check what is "illegal" - it might not line up with your understanding/hope of what it should be ;-)

To get back to the original question though - in the U.S., you are not allowed to fly any drone out of sight. As a licensed commercial drone pilot, you can apply for a "Part 107" waiver, that - if approved - would allow it. The best thing you could legally do is have an observer who keeps an eye on the drone and can tell you where it is, while you for example focus on the screen, or fly "FPV".

So, while many people do fly out of sight and most likely will not get into trouble doing so, it is not legal, so flying over a large property, that would technically be possible, but would not be legal...



OK, a legal, licensed operator can fly his legal, registered drone can go anywhere, no matter how offensive it may be.

What about the unlicensed operators of unregistered drones? And please don't tell me there aren't a LOT of them. Just as there are thousands of criminals carrying guns illegally in every city. How do we defend ourselves against illegal droning by people with ill intent toward us?

[uscra112]

Doesn't address my post at all. Let me put it this way - who enforces the requirement that drones be registered, and how? The way I see it, the situation now is like the cities where shoplifting under $1000 is not prosecuted. So shoplifting has become an industry. Ditto the offensive use of unregistered drones over other peoples' property by anonymous operators. Just calling the sheriff will never stop the offensive behavior, because the sheriff cannot do anything meaningful to the perpetrator even if by good luck he's caught red-handed.

What action does law enforcement take when an unregistered drone is flown onto the grounds of an airport, or a military base? Surely they don't just call the sheriff, and then grin and bear it.

In the not so recent past I had a guy blatantly trespassing on my property. When confronted he refused to identify himself. (I'm morally certain that he was working for a gas-well-drilling company.) He had to leave on my demand, because the sheriff could have arrested him had I pressed the issue. Had the guy used a drone, he would be immune? The ordinary property owner does not see that as justice.

Your law is going to have to catch up with our reality.

I propose that my Congressman introduce a law along the lines of deer hunting rules in my state: That I can use a shotgun, but not a rifle, to avoid the risk of "spare rounds" traveling far enough to do damage to my neighbors' person, property, or livestock. Fair enough?

[HollowPoint]

I just came across this thread about drones.

I recently started studying for the Part-107 Commercial Pilots license exam. Some of the information that one is required to learn is just brain-numbing but, if that's what it takes to get properly licensed to fly commercially and legally well, I guess I'll just have to study harder.

Right now, I own what many would consider a toy-drone. I bought it off of the Flea-Bay market sight a few years ago. I got scammed in a bait and switch Ebay listing. Long story short; I got my money back and I was allowed to keep the toy drone I had paid for.

Anyway, I've been using that toy drone to get acquainted with flying a drone. It's worked out ok but, unfortunately for me, this toy drone is so light weight that a sneeze or a fart thrown in the direction of the drone will knock it off course. Once I've passed my Commercial Pilot's license test, I'll be making a major upgrade. At this point in time, I see no reason to splurge on an expensive drone.

With the ever-changing rules and regulations of flying a drone, I think it would be wise for me to wait until after September. After that time frame the "Remote-ID" rule will go into effect which in my mind will mean that there will be a glut of very good used formerly high-priced drones on the market. If I don't buy new, I may be able to buy an excellent used commercially viable drone that I can simply retrofit with a remote ID transponder.

HollowPoint

[HollowPoint]

Doesn't address my post at all. Let me put it this way - who enforces the requirement that drones be registered, and how? The way I see it, the situation now is like the cities where shoplifting under $1000 is not prosecuted. So shoplifting has become an industry. Ditto the offensive use of unregistered drones over other peoples' property by anonymous operators. Just calling the sheriff will never stop the offensive behavior, because the sheriff cannot do anything meaningful to the perpetrator even if by good luck he's caught red-handed.

What action does law enforcement take when an unregistered drone is flown onto the grounds of an airport, or a military base? Surely they don't just call the sheriff, and then grin and bear it.

In the not so recent past I had a guy blatantly trespassing on my property. When confronted he refused to identify himself. (I'm morally certain that he was working for a gas-well-drilling company.) He had to leave on my demand, because the sheriff could have arrested him had I pressed the issue. Had the guy used a drone, he would be immune? The ordinary property owner does not see that as justice.

Your law is going to have to catch up with our reality.

I propose that my Congressman introduce a law along the lines of deer hunting rules in my state: That I can use a shotgun, but not a rifle, to avoid the risk of "spare rounds" traveling far enough to do damage to my neighbors' person, property, or livestock. Fair enough?

After September of this year, drone flyers flying a drone with a weight of more than .55 pounds will be required to have on their drones a remote-ID transponder. With this new transponder requirement, a person concerned about someone illegally flying a drone in their area can download an app that will be able to give them enough specific information about any drones flying in their vicinity that it will make it easier to track down the owner of the drone.

Armed with this information, presumably, you can contact the FAA or the police and the FAA to have the pilot of such a drone looked into.

As usual though, it seems that every one of life's hobby niches has its bad actors. What I mean is, in the same way that gun laws passed to try to stop the bad actors in the gun community from their illegal or dangerous behavior, the bad actors in the drone community will negatively affect the overwhelmingly larger number of legal drone owner/flyers.

They can pass all the laws they can think of, and it will never change the crooked behavior of those lives are lived around crooked behavior.

HollowPoint

[rancher1913]

hello, do i really need to repeat my above sentence. our town is NOT the place for arguments either way. guess you might as well lock it like you wanted to minerat.

[uscra112]

If not here, then where?

[Big Tom]

Is this arguing / a pointless discussion or the attempt to get clarity on what one can or should not be done? I don't see anything going personal...

The question was, if a drone is helpful monitoring private property, if it is at risk of being shut down while flying it and the OP wanted to stay "out of harms way". I think this got addressed well with explaining what current laws are and input was given to "stay out of harms way" by doing something illegal (shooting down a drone or flying out of sight).

Technically, all possible things, just not quite legal and if caught doing it, it could be a more severe thing than a speeding ticket.


hello, do i really need to repeat my above sentence. our town is NOT the place for arguments either way. guess you might as well lock it like you wanted to minerat.

[Minerat]

hello, do i really need to repeat my above sentence. our town is NOT the place for arguments either way. guess you might as well lock it like you wanted to minerat.

Sorry it happened Rancher. I'll close this thread as you request.