30-30 and IMR 3031: Lyman unusually conservative?

[huntinlever]

Just working up a new load for my son's 336 30-30. I previously loaded 170 grain Sierras with 29.0 IMR 4064. Now, using Speer Hot-Cor 150 gr FN, and trying out IMR 3031.

Is Lyman generally pretty conservative relative to other data? Only happened to notice Lyman is 26.5-28.5 3031 (150 gr RN), whereas Hogdon starts out past the max load for Lyman, 28.7-30.5 (150 Sie FN).

Hadn't noticed this before on other load comparisons. Not sure if it's a general tendency.

[TurnipEaterDown]

I have had experience on several occasions, and seen in data many more, that certain Speer bullets simply do not have the velocity potential of other makers equal weight bullet.
In other words, at least some Speer bullets are different enough from other makes to affect the pressure curve and make attainable velocity lower at equal peak pressure.

I don't think this is a general rule, and 100 fps may make no practical difference in game taking ability, but it is what I have seen and found.

[Bazoo]

Not exactly an answer to your question but it could be useful information.

My use of 3031 in the 30-30 with the 31141 is such that, at least for that combination, lyman is probably conservative. The 31141 max powder charge is 27 grains and I worked up to 28. That matched factory 170 grain jacketed load’s recoil and trajectory. I don’t have a chronograph presently so no info on what it’s running.

The RCBS manual lists their 30-180-FN with a max of 28.0 3031. And it weighs a touch over 180 grains. My 31141 weighs 180 when cast of WW+Sn and fully dressed. I felt comfortable working up past book max, considering these things and that my has a more generous chamber than some.

[freakonaleash]

I have used 3031 in a 30 30 with fair results. I find 4198 to be a more accurate powder for the 30 30.

[Nobade]

My standard load was always 30 gr of 3031 under a 150 and 27gr under a 170. That will pretty much duplicate factory loads.

[HWooldridge]

My standard load was always 30 gr of 3031 under a 150 and 27gr under a 170. That will pretty much duplicate factory loads.

^^^This is what I have loaded for at least 20 years, maybe longer. Works just fine and no signs of excessive pressures.

[Griff]

I have mostly loaded cast in my .30-30s for the past 30+ years, a 150 RFN GC and pushed it with RE-7. A load of 27.5 grains equals POI & POA the same as my hunting load from Federal, their 150 jacketed load. Both running 2290fps according to my chronograph. The other load I use quite often is with the Sierra 125HP. Although most shot from my truck gun, (Winchester 94 16" Trapper), the BLC(2) load in Lyman's 50th equals what I produce with that max combo in my 26" rifle, approx 2550fps. As it should, they're using a 24" bbl on a universal receiver for their data. You should always take the platform the publisher is using into account when comparing your results to the published data. Differences in placement of the crimp cannelure will also change powder charge maximums due to pressure. Not saying it's the same, but the differences between 2 different 170 grain bullets for my .32-40 end up with an nearly ¼" in OAL when both are loaded & crimped in the cannelure. Quite a bit of difference in nose shape & meplat also. Loaded with the same charge, I ascertain that I get a difference of about 100 fps from the 26" bbl with the 1885, with attendant raise in POI.

[Eddie Southgate]

Lyman #40 gives 28.0 for 1945 fps maxing at 31.5 for2300 fps with 170 jacketed . Lot's of difference in what they suggested in 1955 and now. Lyman #45 (1970) lists 25-28.5 of 3031 for the same 170 jacketed.

[ascast]

The Lyman spiral bound book of 1958 (I think) has loads shooters sent in. Consensus is that some of those load are really hot. Best to error on the side of caution and back it down if in doubt. I've never fired a 30-30 in my life, so....

[georgerkahn]

^^^This is what I have loaded for at least 20 years, maybe longer. Works just fine and no signs of excessive pressures.

...and as I have loaded in both .30-30 Winchester and .30 Remington.
geo

[fastdadio]

. I've never fired a 30-30 in my life, so....
Blasphemy.....
Yer missing out on what some consider to be the perfect eastern woods cartridge. Pure joy to cast and reload for, and has taken every size game up to and including lion, moose, and griz.

[huntinlever]

Great, plenty to work with. Thanks guys.

[vonb]

I load 31.0 gr of IMR 3031 behind a 150 gr Winchester Power Point @ 2.550 OAL. This gives me 2,247 fps out of a Marlin 336 with a 20" barrel. I was concerned this was pushing it so I ran the load through GRT to determine pressure. I wasn't even close to the max SAAMI pressure for the .30-30.

Conversely, I load 35.5 gr of LeverEvolution behind a 160gr FTX for 2,380 fps. GRT mentioned that was at max pressure for this load.

I'd recommend downloading GRT (Gordon's Reloading Tool) and learn how to provide good input. It's a great tool that augments load manuals.

[Eddie Southgate]

The Lyman spiral bound book of 1958 (I think) has loads shooters sent in. Consensus is that some of those load are really hot. Best to error on the side of caution and back it down if in doubt. I've never fired a 30-30 in my life, so....

Red jacket is 1958 . I have always avoided the pet loads and customer supplied data and only used the Lyman supplied and tested data. I would highly suggest everybody else do the same. I doubt that the powder itself has changed much since the fifties but testing has and the ability of the public to bring law suits even when it is usually them that is at fault has changed tremendously. Accepted pressure levels have changed quite a bit over the years. If I was in doubt at all about something I was loading for someone else to shoot I would use whatever Lyman lists as either middle of the road or their accuracy or factory duplication load. The middle is usually quite sufficient to kill deer and hogs with. I use Lyman's 1970 accuracy load for 100 grain .243 , been using it since 1970 and haven't seen a need to use anything else. It is a minimum dose of IMR 4320 and kills game like lightning. You don't have to shoot fast to shoot deadly but you must be either accurate or extremely lucky one or the other. Lee books have been the most conservative that I know of and Speer used to be as far the opposite as you could get. My .358 180g load came from an old Speer manual and it's hotter than anything I've ever seen anywhere else but I have been shooting it for years and never had any kind of issue other than bullets that destroy themselves like they were 35 grain Vmax's .