Straight sided PP bullet in 38-55.

[JKR]

Is there any reason it wouldn’t work as well as in the bigger bores?
I’ve tried a DD bullet but didn’t have much luck. Accuracy was mediocre. Groove sized PP and GG bullets have given me good accuracy at the cost of powder space.
I’m thinking of trying a straight sided bore sized bullet loaded in the same way that I’ve had success with in my 45-70.
JKR

[Gunlaker]

Sure. I have a .38-55 that I've shot a lot of bore diameter pp bullets in. I breech seat them, but I'm sure it'd work pretty well if they were seated in the case too.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Straight sided and the tapered bullets are what made the 38-55 and 32-40 famous. Getting the bullet length to the correct for the twist, and bullet diameter correct is the key.

[ascast]

What is "DD"? think you'll find they work fine when you get the right combo.

[Don McDowell]

dd is dual diameter. Been shooting those for about 15 years, and they will either work like a champ or not. I'm convinced the trick is to keep the base to bore diameter before patching and 1 caliber long with the base of the nose somewhere around .005 under bore diameter and keeping the length just short of what the barrel twist will stabilize reliably.

[Lead pot]

JKR,

I dont have a .38-55 but I have a .38-50 and I have spent a year working with this caliber. It has a little more powder capacity than the 55 but the straight wall shank works as well as the DD in it. I like the DD because the base diameter gets patched to groove diameter making a faster gas seal and I see the difference on the ES the chronograph shows.
Don is right about the relation of the bullet length and the ROT of the bore. But that is more of a factor for the distance you're shooting. A bullet a little long for the ROT can still do well close but starts to suffer at extended range.

What I have so far found with my 1/12 ROT in my .38-50 with the parallel sided bullet shank I cant use the hard alloy mix that I use with the DD bullet. I just recovered some alloy test bullets and I found that the hard alloy that was patched snug to bore diameter barely had land engravings on the bullet shank and this I feel would slow the rotation for stability. I found no gas cuts or fins even just using a .024" wad and the bullet only set back .009".
But I would pay attention to matching the bullet length for the twist of your ROT. A softer alloy will set the bullet back changing the balance but the setback can get to be a problem if it's not equal concentric setback caused with a bullet that has runout.

[Good Cheer]

dd is dual diameter. Been shooting those for about 15 years, and they will either work like a champ or not. I'm convinced the trick is to keep the base to bore diameter before patching and 1 caliber long with the base of the nose somewhere around .005 under bore diameter and keeping the length just short of what the barrel twist will stabilize reliably.

That's just about what I'm fixing to try; NOE #360365, 280 grain spire point in a Ruger 9.3x74R.

[Don McDowell]

Paper thickness also plays a big part. Even way back when the ODG's referred to thin, medium and heavy paper. Near as I can tell the best we have to go on now would be 7,8 and 9lb paper. The paper thickness plays an important part in load development, a bullet that doesn't shoot well with 9 lb may very well turn on with the 7 or 8 and visa versa.
Anything softer than 20-1 in a patched bullet is most likely just an exercise in burning powder and primers, with some frustrating trigger time.
Fouling management, can't be stressed enough.

[Nobade]

That's all I use in my NEF single shot. The chamber doesn't allow seating a groove diameter bullet in the case but it's perfect for patched to bore loads and shoots very well that way as well as being to actually hold 55 grains of powder.

[Snakeoil]

I am going thru this with an original .32-40 High Wall that someone "freshened" the barrel on. It now measures 0.326 groove diameter. I tried a number of bullets up to 0.326 in diameter with no real luck. I then moved to a softer, 30:1 alloy and the gun came to life. I am breech seating a .326 Lee 324-175 that had the GC area removed and drops a .326 bullet. Breech seat easily and groups nicely. Only irons on the rifle and need to put one of my Unerlts on it to truly find the rifle's capabilities. But it's been shooting so good that I'm going to use it in a match this Sunday.

I have a .38-55 1885 Browning (Miroku) that I've been trying to get to shoot with 225 grain bullets. It's not cooperating. I was going to give up and sell it. But now I think I'll try the same 30:1 alloy and see if that does not improve things. I know these all have Badger barrels from the factory so they should all shoot like lasers.

[JKR]

Thanks for the encouragement, guys! I’ll pick out a mold and give it a shot. Not my first rodeo so I’m aware of the necessity of bullet length and fit.
I don’t know why I couldn’t get that DD bullet to shoot well. The same bullet in a friends Miroku Winchester rifle shot great. Our bore size is the same but my rifle has a slightly faster 14 twist.
This rifle has given excellent results with a couple other bullets as mentioned earlier, so I know it has potential.
Chris,
I’d like to learn more about breech seating. Can you recommend a good source of information?
Jim

[Gunlaker]

Jim, breech seating is super easy. There is a lot of information to be found on the ASSRA forums about this old way of getting really good accuracy out of these rifles.

Basically you are pushing the bullet into the bore ahead of the chamber using a simple tool. Then you load a case charged with powder into the chamber. With my 38-55 I seat a 0.030 LDPE wad under the base of the bullet and use a 0.030" card wad to hold the powder in the case.

Since bore diameter PP bullets don't take a whole lot of effort to push into the rifling the tool is simple and easy to make. Take a fireformed case and drill the primer pocket out to take a 1/4-20 bolt, or a #10-32. Cut a length of 0.375" brass rod ( you'll have to experiment with the length ) so that it sits well into the case. Drill and tap a blind hole in one end to take the 1/4-20 or 10-32 threads. Insert the brass rod into the case, and thread a long bolt into the brass rod through the drilled out primer hole. Now you have a plunger basically. Use 2 nuts as a jamb nut to control how far the plunger goes before the nuts bottom out on the case mouth. The nuts should be adjusted so that when the plunger is pressed all the way forward the plunger extends out of the case by maybe 1/16" to 1/8". When the plunger is fully retracted the case should hold the bullet seated quite deeply.

To use the tool, stick a 0.030" LDPE wad into it and press it all the way down with a dowel if necessary. Then stick in the bullet. Put the whole works into the chamber and then press on the bolt head to drive the bullet and wad into the throat of the rifle. You might need to experiment with the depth adjustment for max accuracy. Then remove the tool and insert a charged case and shoot.

Pressing the bullet and wad into the chamber can make your thumb sore so I use a Klein nut driver to press on the bolt head. If you have machinist skills you could make a much nicer tool, but this works. The ASSRA forum would show you pictures of better tools. Sometimes people sell them there. There is also a copy of the original Ideal Breech Seater being sold on ebay by a guy who makes them. They'd be fine for this purpose and look a lot nicer than my version of the tool :-)

Chris.

[Lead pot]

Jim,

Did you shoot the Merrill match last weekend?

If you make a shoot at Rapids or Merrill let me know and I will bring my breach seating tools I have for the sharps.
I havent made one yet for the CPA or the Hepburn.
What rifle is your .38-55 chambered in?
Kurt

[Lead pot]

Jim.

I use the Webber seating tool and also I have a palm seater I made also but the Webber is a lot better seating the bullet in sign with the bore.

310635

When my eyes went down hill I had to mount a scope on my Sharps. I had to alter the tool so I could turn the cam left because of the scope and Thors hammer the sharp has :D It works just fine.

310636310637

Breach seating I use a different PP bullet than I use for fixed. I want the diameter of the patched bullet .002" or 3 over bore diameter, but one patched at bore works also but the extra diameter I see a closer ES average with the velocity.
If I want to use a bullet that is designed with a lesser diameter I just use a thicker paper as much as .0035" to patch the bullet and I see no difference in accuracy over the .0018" paper.
Like Chris said, breach seating is not difficult. Just use a proper fitting tool that fits the chamber and also fits the bullet so it pushes the bullet into and past the throat straight.
The DDEPP bullet with the base patched to groove diameter and the reduced portion of the shark that is bore diameter works very good breach seated.

Kurt

[JKR]

Kurt,
I did shoot at Merrill. Won the traditional(iron sight) class with the Miroku low wall I told you about.
It would be interesting to see those tools. My rifle is an original High Wall with a liner installed. .368 bore/.375 groove. 14 twist.
Chris,
Thanks much for the great description. I have a good enough understanding now to be able to make a tool as you’ve described.
Is a special type of chamber recommended for breech seating?
Jim

[Lead pot]

I just checked my E-Mail that Jeff sent and I see you shot a 38 :D that puts you up on my hard holder list along with Matt !!! Good work.

I have to order a brass rod and make another tool that fits the Stevens action. I don't want to alter those two so they fit the smaller action.

[Gunlaker]

mber recommended for breech seating?
Jim

I used to think so, but after messing with a number of different rifles I'd say no not really.

Ideally for any cast bullet shooting a nice gentle throat angle is nice, but my CPA Stevens in 38-55 has a 6 degree leade angle and it shoots extremely well. I also have a 32-40 with a weird chamber in that the rifling starts at the end of the case and it has no throat. I suspect the throat was supposed to be cut separately and someone forgot to do it. That rifle will put 10 shots at 200m into a minute of angle or less. For those 2 rifles I have Russ Weber breech seaters which do a great job of seating the bullets perfectly straight. Sadly Russ passed away a few years ago so those seaters aren't being made anymore.

Chris.

[ian45662]

My 12 twist 38-50 shoots straight sided bore diameter PP boolits very well. Won some silhouette and long range matches with it. I used an alloy of 14:1 which is also the PP alloy I use in my 45shttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230220/a981b3174d64b101b5368518c8c793d6.jpg


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[Lead pot]

Now how can you miss anything with a PP bullet looking that good?? :D

[ian45662]

Now how can you miss anything with a PP bullet looking that good?? :D

If anyone can it’s me [emoji13]


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[Gunlaker]

Those are some looooong 38 cal bullets!!

Chris.

[Good Cheer]

Oh gosh darn now I caint find the records on how much black the .38LC holds behind the boolit.
Reckon I'll have to do it all over again.

[ian45662]

Those are some looooong 38 cal bullets!!

Chris.

1.47”


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[FrankJD]

My 12 twist 38-50 shoots straight sided bore diameter PP boolits very well. Won some silhouette and long range matches with it. I used an alloy of 14:1 which is also the PP alloy I use in my 45shttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230220/a981b3174d64b101b5368518c8c793d6.jpg


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Dang, those are beauties!