Changing F250 5.4 intake manifold is not for the meek.

[Winger Ed.]

Whew! I'm glad that's done.

The '06 F250 with the 5.4 Triton had a bad low end miss and kept tossing a lean code.
After doing all the easy stuff, and the more I researched it- it kept pointing to a vacuum leak at the intake manifold.
Which is a common problem for the 3 valve 5.4. One thing about driving an old truck is that everybody else has had these
same problems 10-15 years ago, and researching and fixing such common problems is well plowed ground.

On the downside:
This truck is so tall, standing on the ground, the only thing you can reach is the battery and radiator filler cap.
They call it a front engine, but it looks like it is mounted under the cab. Everything has to be done with a step ladder,
or just crawling up in there and laying down on top of it. I was not looking forward to this project.
The manifold is $300., and the cheapest anyone will change it it another $800.
After doing this project, now I think that's kind of a bargain.

Crawling up in there, leaning over on one knee and forearm, this may be the hardest car repair project I've ever done.
Being sore and stiff in places I didn't even know I had- I'd only spend 2-3 hours a day up in there with it.
I could do it again faster after doing this one, but after this last four days with it- I sure don't want to.

Anyway, it's done and the old Thunderbolt Grease Slapper is back to its old happy self.

[Recycled bullet]

How is the fuel trim adaptation now?

[high standard 40]

Ed, I think the proper term is "cab forward", not "front engine". At least that is as I remember from working at the Ford dealership. The cowl and bottom edge of the windshield is over the back of the engine.

[Winger Ed.]

How is the fuel trim adaptation now?

I cleaned & flushed the injectors, and re-set the computer.
The (4) O2 sensors are fresh. I haven't put it on a diagnostic tool yet, but it seems to be fine.

It's only got 61,000 miles on it, but I've more than kept up with the preventive maintenance.
Some things I've changed more for their age than mileage is plugs, coils, filters, trans fluid, serpentine belt & pullies,
coolant, front springs, cab mount bushings, shocks, grease frt. wheel bearings, MAF sensor, oil at 3,000 miles.
The rear axle oil is on the list for when the weather warms up.

[Winger Ed.]

Ed, I think the proper term is "cab forward",

After crawling around working by laying on top of it and reaching WAY! back in there,
I leaning toward calling it 'mid engine-under cab'.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Be glad you don't live in a Midwest state (or anywhere else corrosion is more prevalent than Texas) or I am sure you would learn the joy of exhaust manifold stud corrosion on the Ford modular motor as well...

[Recycled bullet]

I cleaned & flushed the injectors, and re-set the computer.
The (4) O2 sensors are fresh. I haven't put it on a diagnostic tool yet, but it seems to be fine.

It's only got 61,000 miles on it, but I've more than kept up with the preventive maintenance.
Some things I've changed more for their age than mileage is plugs, coils, filters, trans fluid, serpentine belt & pullies,
coolant, front springs, cab mount bushings, shocks, grease frt. wheel bearings, oil at 3,000 miles.
The rear axle oil is on the list for when the weather warms up.That truck will last forever if you keep maintaining it like that!

[Winger Ed.]

That truck will last forever if you keep maintaining it like that!

I bought it new in '06 with the intention it'd be the last truck I ever bought.
I don't mind maintaining it like we did the jets and helicopters in the Service.
It helps keep me out of those crooked BINGO parlors.

I've heard bad things about the timing chain & camshaft phasers on them,
but I doubt I'll ever put enough miles on it to worry about that much.

[Recycled bullet]

My 150 is an 04 just passed 103k miles.

I have replaced the engine twice in that truck. I have replaced both in a window of 25k miles.

The original motor failed from lack of oil changes/lack of oil +towing a heavy trailer. That's when I bought it, as a broken truck.

All the bearing caps for both banks camshafts were broken and could move the camshafts by pinching it with two fingers and applying pressure. I don't understand how it was capable of being driven into the shop under it's own power. I think the timing chains and valve covers was keeping them from falling off[emoji848] It shouldn't have been able to breath or make compression, the destruction was complete.


The engine I bought from jasper made noises, started failing from low oil pressure they finally agreed to warranty it after slow walking the claim for three years.

So I replaced it again this past June. Man it was hot over a hundred degrees whooooo Eeeee!

[GregLaROCHE]

I’m surprised you have to do so much maintenance at such low mileage. You are right to keep on top of what needs to be done.

[Winger Ed.]

I’m surprised you have to do so much maintenance at such low mileage. You are right to keep on top of what needs to be done.

A lot is sort of unnecessary. I've taken off more than a few fairly good parts, and replaced them with OEM new ones.
I try to keep it in great shape. When anybody I know breaks down-- they call me. I don't have anybody to call if I break down.
I keep it out of afternoon direct sun and even wax it once or twice a year.
The neighbors have seen it parked in the same spot for 6 years, but still think it's new..

I was asked one time why I spent the time and money to change the transmission fluid in our 2002 Explorer that only has
111,000 miles on it when it was working just fine.
I told 'em that no, most people never think at the trans. fluid until the transmission trashes out and has to be rebuilt.
Ten years ago, it was about $2,500 to have this transmission rebuilt.
Compared to that-- changing the fluid at 60,000 miles is free.

[dswancutt]

I had to do an intake on my mom's 2003 F-150 4x4, and like you I would not do it again. I ended up buying this because the step stool was not cutting it.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/81166/10002/-1

Expensive, but worth every penny.

[Winger Ed.]

That thing is clever.
I've got a nice step ladder thing that works,
but must have made at least three thousand trips moving it from one side to the other or front.

I've got one of those 300-ish pound Ranch Hand 'pusher' front bumpers that stick out about a foot too.
After trying to reach or climb over it, I was seriously considering taking it and the front tires off, and setting it down on the ground.

[MaryB]

Local shop lifts the cab off.. while swapping the intake they also do the plugs and put in the plug repair kit if needed. My 2001 F150 had the 5.4 Triton cracked intake problem... it is COMMON in them because the coolant crossover tube is aluminum and the intake is plastic! #1 cylinder starts showing issues then it will hydro lock and you pray it didn't bend any valves or a rod when it does it! Or break the cam bearings... mine was the year before the cam phasers so that wasn't an issue. There is a delete kit for them that the local garage puts on along with new timing chain guides(plastic).

Now I have a 100,000 mile warranty, no time limit. At 4k miles a year driving I will hit that when I am in my mid to late 80's LOL

[GregLaROCHE]

My back hurts just hearing you guys talk about hanging over into an engine compartment. I spent my time doing it. Now it’s just to check the oil dipstick etc.

[Winger Ed.]

Local shop lifts the cab off.. while swapping the intake they also do the plugs and put in the plug repair kit if needed.

I'd thought about trying to lift mine up to get a few more inches back there.
I changed the plugs and coils a year or so ago.
It had those original kind of spark plugs that easily break off.
I'd heard stories where they couldn't get the nose/bottom half the plug out,
or a chunk of it fell into the cylinder, and they had to pull the heads.
Then a spark plug change turned into a $3-4,000 job.

I was real careful with pulling mine, and only broke one.
Yep,,, it was the one at the back that seems like it is under the driver's seat.
Once again, being old, the problem was well plowed ground and the special removal tool I bought for it
had come down in price and was in its third generation.

At the back, there are 3 wiring plugs, and a vacuum line to deal with.
Getting the plugs unclipped and off is a pain, but once unbolted, and the alternator is off,
the manifold slides forward enough to reach in there.

I lost a day trying to reconnect the vacuum hose. It was about a inch too short for the new manifold.
I finally just made another hose to connect with the port and go to the power brake and fuel rail sensor.

[Winger Ed.]

My back hurts just hearing you guys talk about hanging over into an engine compartment. I spent my time doing it. .

It might be my imagination, but I seem to remember doing things like this were somewhat easier when I was 28 instead of 68.
---I'm learning more and more every day that getting old isn't for the meek or faint of heart.

[farmbif]

wait till you try and replace the rear two plugs and coils. and thats the engine with the problem plugs. if you do need to replace them be prepared for a few days work and buying this
https://cal-vantools.com/products/three-valve-ford-triton-insert-repair-kit/
hopefully the plugs won't break in half.
I was fortunate and after trying myself to fix the triton got a local expert with a good back to do the most difficult stuff. dont settle for discount no name parts.
I did a bunch of research and ended up with Delphi coils and denso plugs which turned out to be a good choice

[Finster101]

I turned wrenches professionally for over 40 years and I definitely feel it in my lower back and hands.

[Winger Ed.]

wait till you try and replace the rear two plugs and coils.

Oh yeah. I already graduated from that school.
I was able to get the broken one-- driver's side rear out with the Lysle tool and didn't have to re-cut & tap the hole for a insert.
I've heard horror stories of plugs just blowing out of these too.

I put a new set of OEM Motorcraft plugs in it, and the new ones don't break off. They're made more like old school ones,
and the tips aren't separate from the base/body of the plug like the first generation ones.

I did the plug change when a coil or two went sour around 58,000 miles or so. I put in a set of Edelbrocks.
This summer, one of them started acting up less than 2,000 miles later, so I changed them all for new Motorcraft OEM coils.

I drive less than 1,000 miles a year, and think I'm done with changing coils & plugs.

I looked real quick at the old manifold. I couldn't find a crack, but it sort of looks like the gaskets under it were leaking.
The OEM gaskets for it are pretty big bucks by themselves. As old as it is, I'd probably have changed the manifold anyway.

[legend 550]

Uncle had to310614 change the turbos on a 3.5 eco boost. While he had him opened up did timing chains

[Winger Ed.]

Uncle had to[A[/ATTACH]

If you're set up for it, pulling up a cab, or truck bed to change the fuel pump is no big deal.

For me, it'd be one of those (dreaded) things that start out with, "All ya gotta do"..........

[MaryB]

Oh yeah. I already graduated from that school.
I was able to get the broken one-- driver's side rear out with the Lysle tool and didn't have to re-cut & tap the hole for a insert.
I've heard horror stories of plugs just blowing out of these too.

I put a new set of OEM Motorcraft plugs in it, and the new ones don't break off. They're made more like old school ones,
and the tips aren't separate from the base/body of the plug like the first generation ones.

I did the plug change when a coil or two went sour around 58,000 miles or so. I put in a set of Edelbrocks.
This summer, one of them started acting up less than 2,000 miles later, so I changed them all for new Motorcraft OEM coils.

I drive less than 1,000 miles a year, and think I'm done with changing coils & plugs.

I looked real quick at the old manifold. I couldn't find a crack, but it sort of looks like the gaskets under it were leaking.
The OEM gaskets for it are pretty big bucks by themselves. As old as it is, I'd probably have changed the manifold anyway.

Look at the groove the O rings for the coolant crossover tube sit in. The lip breaks off and fluid can leak by under the O ring because nothing is holding it in place. Most common side is passenger...

[Froogal]

Kind of makes a guy wish for the good 'ol Chevy small block engine. Go out after lunch, Open the hood and replace BOTH heads and have the car back on the road by supper time.

[Rockindaddy]

My old 1994 Fud F-150 has 159K on the original 300 6-cylinder Has the original 5-speed on the floor. The only thing I had to fix last year was the harmonic balancer that came apart and wore a hole in the timing gear cover. Not too bad of a fix. Can't believe guys want to know if I want to sell the ole' girl !!! The sticker shock of buying a new F-150 could cause a stroke. I asked to have my new F-150 set up with a set of gears. The salesman laughed and said why would you want a gear box? Told him that I can fix a standard trans but did not want to rebuild an automatic. He informed me that manual transmissions were not available!!! Maybe they did not have one on the lot. This ole' F-150 doesn't make much oil pressure. Recycled Bullet; now you have me scared!!! Worn out camshaft bearings.

[jonp]

Just got my 2004 5.4 3V F150 with 170K out of the shop for an engine knock sensor code. Wire was broken to the sensor and after looking up how to do it I said "No Thanks". Fixed that and a couple of other things but now threw a code for lean on both banks. I pulled the MAF sensor and sprayed it down then reset it but hope nothing else. Figuring the shop messed something up and will take a hard look tomorrow. These engines suck to work on.

Don't even try the back sparkplugs. I can't wait to dump this thing. Another $1900 down the tubes. Rebuilt transmission, rebuilt motor, rebuilt transfer case, new oil pump, new water pump, new timing chains and cam phasors, new drive shaft, steering shaft, wheel bearings, shocks, struts, tie rods, ball joints (which need to be done again) O2 sensors, muffler and pipe and so on and so on including a leak at the oil filter housing so have to do that too. At least I can do the housing gasket and ball joints myself. Back end jumps which looks like a chewed up rear gear so that will be several hundred more bucks.

Did I mention I can't wait to dump this dog?

[Winger Ed.]

The salesman laughed and said why would you want a gear box? T.

I hadn't looked at the other auto makers, but I think Ford did away with them in full size trucks around 2010.
My '06 has one of the few/last six speed manuals.
I ordered it special. I'd always been a GM guy, but when the stars came together and I was able to get a new truck---
the Chevy folks wouldn't let me have what I wanted.
The salesman looked me in the eye, straight up lied, and refused to sell me one.

I said, "I want a 3/4 ton, extended cab, gas fired V8, six speed manual trans, fleet model..... This is not negotiable".
I got--- 'OK,,, Chevy doesn't make standard transmissions any more. (They did then) Let me show you these Diesel Silverados".......
I talked to the Ford guy on Wed. He said he didn't have one on the lot, but could get one from Houston by Friday.
He told me the price, and I said 'Send it to Dallas'. I picked it up on my Lunch break that Friday.

I can baby a clutch along for at least 100,000 miles, but I won't change this one. It's huge!.
I'm used to ones you can carry under one arm from the old 1/2 ton trucks.
This one is the same one they put in a school bus, will take a PTO, and weighs 100 pounds more than a automatic.
I don't have the lifts and trans. jacks to pull or install it.

[Handloader109]

I'll not say mine will go down the road to the dollar general and back the next time I crank it up, but my 2005 f150 with the triton hasn't been bad at all. I bought in 2012 with 95k miles on it and I've gotten it up to 217,000. Replaced all the plugs pretty soon after getting it thinking it was causing the miss, nope it was a coil. So I bought a set of coils and replaced them at about 110k. They lasted until about 175k and I replaced them again with a cheap set and had to replace one since at about 215k. I've got 4 spares left that my brother gave me. He's a mechanic and won't touch one of these for major engine repair due to cost. Especially timing issues as it is cheaper to just do engine replacement... mine still runs good, I'm not selling it yet....

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Recycled bullet]

This!!

The reason I swapped the motor instead of rebuilding it was the oil pan and timing cover was filled with metal pieces looked like shiny metallic finger nail clippings mixed with shiny sludge and burnt goo.

Would cost at least a thousand bucks a head to start and both were trashed. It failed from oil starvation and there was no way I'm trusting the lower end not to poop the bed.

Some where a Ford engineer is giggling at the stupid design of the Ford modular v8 and the absolute dependence it has of tiny oil ports to lube and cool a poorly designed vvt system.

We've done a bunch of them at the shop.


I don't want to do all the work and still have metal trash stuck in a oil pressure port somewhere.

Still rolled the dice with a reman and got burned by shifty quality control. On first start up it had collapsed lifters and low oil pressure and phaser tick. The jasper rep lied to my face saying they live run reliability test all blocks before shipping them out. He retired and his replacement was so ashamed he sent me another reman this past summer.

This one is a little better.

Winger it sounds like you got one of the good ones that Ford built.

[MaryB]

My 2001 F150 made it to 157k then then dreaded cracked intake at the coolant crossover issue. Hydro locked the engine once but didn't break anything. I looked at replacing it and decided against it, way to hard to get at the back bolts for a cripple like me with a very bad back.

I miss the days of a simple engine, no spaghetti of vacuum lines going all over, no smog crap...

[rbuck351]

The more I read of this kind of stuff, the more I like my 98 1/2 Dodge Cummins. I have had to do a couple of small repairs on the outside engine things (tps) and such and one major repair. The injector pump went at about 200,000 miles and took me a couple hours to replace. Now it has around 225,000 and runs better than new. It has an Edge chip. It is fairly easy to work on/get at the engine and has no hard to get at plugs or expensive coils.

I did change plugs on a 2002 F150 for a friend but I will never do that again. The big car manufactures should have their engineers remove and replace whatever part they design ten times before they are allowed to design another car part.

[Winger Ed.]

The big car manufactures should have their engineers remove and replace whatever part they design ten times before they are allowed to design another car part.

That's not how the system works.
To help hold their price down, cars are (partly) engineered to be assembled as quickly as possible.
Things we can't reach- the factory put that stuff on before the body shell got lowered onto the chassis.

All the suspension parts we have trouble lifting up into place--
the factory may put those on with the bare frame upside down.

A side benefit to that is that it helps get mechanic work out of your driveway, and into the dealer's service dept.

[Froogal]

2012 Silverado with the 5.3. Truck has only 85,000 miles so it should be good to go for quite some time, but in the back of my mind I am curious about replacing that 5.3 with a good 'ol 5.7 when, and if, the time comes. I would set it up with a conventional carburetor and ignition system. Something that I can fix if needed. Probably have to replace the transmission also because I would be eliminating most of the electronics.

[Recycled bullet]

If you do like winger ed and preventively maintain your 12 Silverado you might avoid common failures like cylinder deactivation/torque converter/hydraulic lifters breaking or wearing out.

[Winger Ed.]

replacing that 5.3 with a good 'ol 5.7 .

I'd really research that first.
It ain't like the old days.
If you have modern generation state inspections: There's issues with both visual and emission tests.

These modern systems aren't really that hard to work on.
Get a code reader. Even a cheap one--- The ones that cost a couple hundred dollars a few years ago,
are about $40. now. With it, the car will tell you what's wrong with it. Most of the parts stores now days
will also read the codes for free. They're not as good as the diagnostic tool that costs a few hundred- but it'll
tell you the simple stuff and give you a code number to research for 'cures'.

Back in the mid 80s, I pulled a blown Diesel engine/trans from a '81 Buick station wagon and dropped in
a overhauled '74 Pontiac 350 & turbo 350. The VIN jived up with the Diesel engine so I didn't have to get the sniffer part
of state inspections, but it didn't pass the visual.
My buddy who was a state inspector just didn't wear his glasses when I brought it in.
Without that, I couldn't have gotten a state inspection sticker every year.

I bought a '84 Silverado in '88. It had a blown engine when I got it.
I got the engine from a totaled '87 and swapped into it.
I changed the oil at 3,000. The trans fluid every two years or right after I'd pulled some big trailer
in the summer and it had gotten real hot. I also put the biggest radiator I could find to put inn and still close the hood.
I sold it in 2000 because I was getting tired of looking at it, but it still ran great. I figure the engine had almost
200,000 miles on it, and the transmission close to 300,000.

The moral of the story is that if you baby the 2012 along,
and treat the oils and fluids like the elixir of life that they are--it might last longer than you will.

[Finster101]

2012 Silverado with the 5.3. Truck has only 85,000 miles so it should be good to go for quite some time, but in the back of my mind I am curious about replacing that 5.3 with a good 'ol 5.7 when, and if, the time comes. I would set it up with a conventional carburetor and ignition system. Something that I can fix if needed. Probably have to replace the transmission also because I would be eliminating most of the electronics.

The number one thing you can do for that truck is religiously keep the oil changed. That is the number one killer on the cylinder de-activation. I'm driving an 08 Silverado and it hopefully will be my last truck.

[rbuck351]

Well,trying to keep the price down sure didn't work. Changing spark plugs should be something the average guy can do without removing the body or lifting the engine.
I doubt I'll ever buy a new car again. One, they are very expensive and two they are very difficult to work on.

[megasupermagnum]

2012 Silverado with the 5.3. Truck has only 85,000 miles so it should be good to go for quite some time, but in the back of my mind I am curious about replacing that 5.3 with a good 'ol 5.7 when, and if, the time comes. I would set it up with a conventional carburetor and ignition system. Something that I can fix if needed. Probably have to replace the transmission also because I would be eliminating most of the electronics.

That would be the most foolish thing I can imagine. The LS engines are superior to the old small block engines in almost every way. Coil over plugs are WAY better than distributors, including working on them. The port fuel injection system on the LS engines is as good a system for reliability and longevity that there ever was. Working on them is as easy as I've ever experienced, much easier than working on a carburetor. Here is the kicker, the aftermarket is flooded with intakes for LS engines to put carburetors on them. Seriously, don't do that swap.

As for the transmission, as long as you were thinking something like an NV4500 manual transmission, then I can get behind that 100%. Just be prepared for sticker shock of what they cost now rebuilt. Bell housings aren't cheap either. Don't be dumb and put a 700r4 in there thinking they are better. They are junk. What you already have is pretty good if you change the fluid regularly, 30k miles or so.

[Froogal]

If you do like winger ed and preventively maintain your 12 Silverado you might avoid common failures like cylinder deactivation/torque converter/hydraulic lifters breaking or wearing out.

I bought a "Rangemaster" device. It plugs into the diagnostic port and effectively disables the 4 cylinder/eight cylinder mode.

[Froogal]

The number one thing you can do for that truck is religiously keep the oil changed. That is the number one killer on the cylinder de-activation. I'm driving an 08 Silverado and it hopefully will be my last truck.

Oil is changed every 3,000 miles.

[Froogal]

I'd really research that first.
It ain't like the old days.
If you have modern generation state inspections: There's issues with both visual and emission tests.

These modern systems aren't really that hard to work on.
Get a code reader. Even a cheap one--- The ones that cost a couple hundred dollars a few years ago,
are about $40. now. With it, the car will tell you what's wrong with it. Most of the parts stores now days
will also read the codes for free. They're not as good as the diagnostic tool that costs a few hundred- but it'll
tell you the simple stuff and give you a code number to research for 'cures'.

Back in the mid 80s, I pulled a blown Diesel engine/trans from a '81 Buick station wagon and dropped in
a overhauled '74 Pontiac 350 & turbo 350. The VIN jived up with the Diesel engine so I didn't have to get the sniffer part
of state inspections, but it didn't pass the visual.
My buddy who was a state inspector just didn't wear his glasses when I brought it in.
Without that, I couldn't have gotten a state inspection sticker every year.

I bought a '84 Silverado in '88. It had a blown engine when I got it.
I got the engine from a totaled '87 and swapped into it.
I changed the oil at 3,000. The trans fluid every two years or right after I'd pulled some big trailer
in the summer and it had gotten real hot. I also put the biggest radiator I could find to put inn and still close the hood.
I sold it in 2000 because I was getting tired of looking at it, but it still ran great. I figure the engine had almost
200,000 miles on it, and the transmission close to 300,000.

The moral of the story is that if you baby the 2012 along,
and treat the oils and fluids like the elixir of life that they are--it might last longer than you will.

I live in Iowa. NO inspections.

[Winger Ed.]

I live in Iowa. NO inspections.

That would be a good project then.

Look into getting a lower pressure fuel pump, how to do a throttle linkage if yours is 'fly by wire',
and some sort of 'black box' for the transmission. Grab a issue of "Street Rodder" magazine and maybe a 'Summit Racing' catalog.
It'll have advertisers selling the stuff to use your modern over drive trans. in a old school set up.

[MaryB]

That would be a good project then.

Look into getting a lower pressure fuel pump, how to do a throttle linkage if yours is 'fly by wire',
and some sort of 'black box' for the transmission. Grab a issue of "Street Rodder" magazine and maybe a 'Summit Racing' catalog.
It'll have advertisers selling the stuff to use your modern over drive trans. in a old school set up.

Holley makes a bolt on fuel injector that replaces the carb. I would NOT go back to a carb, the easier winter starting with fuel injection is more than worth it!

[Froogal]

Holley makes a bolt on fuel injector that replaces the carb. I would NOT go back to a carb, the easier winter starting with fuel injection is more than worth it!

Does it? I own a 1950 Farmall H tractor that fires right up anytime I need to move the snow off the driveway.

[Winger Ed.]

I own a 1950 Farmall H tractor that fires right up

It's barely broken in.
All it probably needs is to be detailed and waxed.

[Recycled bullet]

"That would be the most foolish thing I can imagine. The LS engines are superior to the old small block engines in almost every way. Coil over plugs are WAY better than distributors, including working on them. The port fuel injection system on the LS engines is as good a system for reliability and longevity that there ever was. Working on them is as easy as I've ever experienced, much easier than working on a carburetor. ...."

!!!!! 100/100 I agree with that. Old American passenger cars and trucks need constant maintenance and adjustments. I would never give up computerized fuel air spark controls for any vehicle I daily drive or had for a serious purpose.

[Finster101]

Recycled bullet I am in 100% agreement with you. Not to mention it would cost a small fortune to make it work correctly. Why do you think most hotrodders pull the old motors out and put modern computer controlled powertrains in them.

[Winger Ed.]

and put modern computer controlled powertrains in them.

I doubt if I'll get around to it, but that's sort of what I planned for my next hot rod project.

I looked around, and see that our '02 Explorer with 110,000 miles on it couldn't run any better.
As old as it is, it's worth about $3,000. max. I'd spend more than that on a power train for the next project.
If I do it, I'll probably just get a '34 Ford fiberglass body, and put it on top of the Explorer chassis and power train.
That gives me a fairly modern suspension, a really good more or less modern fuel injected OHC V6 and trans that
had its fluid changed twice, never been over loaded or over heated, and pulls like the day we brought it home.

[Recycled bullet]

I doubt if I'll get around to it, but that's sort of what I planned for my next hot rod project.

I looked around, and see that our '02 Explorer with 110,000 miles on it couldn't run any better.
As old as it is, it's worth about $3,000. max. I'd spend more than that on a power train for the next project.
If I do it, I'll probably just get a '34 Ford fiberglass body, and put it on top of the Explorer chassis and power train.
That gives me a fairly modern suspension, a really good more or less modern fuel injected OHC V6 and trans that
had its fluid changed twice, never been over loaded or over heated, and pulls like the day we brought it home.That is really cool.

[megasupermagnum]

Does it? I own a 1950 Farmall H tractor that fires right up anytime I need to move the snow off the driveway.

If you always know exactly how many pumps to give, always have a functioning choke, and always have fuel in the bowl, then they start fine in the cold. Provided your carburetor is clean too, as well as tuned for the cold, or at least a little rich in the summer. That is if you don't count the fact they don't hardly drive for 5-10 minutes after starting. Miss any of those things though, and you just gave yourself a headache. Electric chokes can kiss my ass. I have yet to see one that worked for any amount of time. Manual chokes work fine.

I'm not anti-carburetor. Taking a perfect running 5.3 LS from one of the best years they ever made them with one of the most reliable fuel injections systems ever made, and wanting to put in a smogged down 5.7 turd? At least say you want something cool like say hotrodding your current 5.3, then sure, a carburetor is a less expensive way to do that than an aftermarket fuel injection system.

[rbuck351]

Modern engines with computer controlled fuel and ignition fun better and last longer than carb fueled engines. They meter fuel better so they are not gas loading the cylinders like a carb will. However, I can usually get a carb/distributer type engine to get me home if it quits along side the road. When a modern car quits along side the road you usually need some new electronic component and there is no fixing it without the new part. The coil over plug thing is another thing I do not like. My 99 Jeep Cherokee has 6 coils built as one chunk. So when one coil gives trouble you get to buy all 6. New ECMs and PCMs are really expensive when one of those quits and when one quits you are done going anywhere.

If you have trouble with a carb car running rough after startup in cold weather you need to take it to someone that knows how to adjust the choke pull off correctly. Electric fuel pumps make sure your carb is full when you start it. Electric chokes are not my favorite but I have seen them go for years without problems. Heat tube chokes are better and manual chokes are the best IF you know how to use it. Both electric and heat tube chokes are adjustable for summer and winter driving.
A carb is certainly not for someone that is not very familiar with how they work and how to properly adjust them and neither is a distributor. And that is just about everyone now days. When I take my jeep yj out in the dingles, I would feel safer if it had a distributor with points and condenser and a carb. For about $100, I could keep a spare set of points, condenser, coil, new electric fuel pump, some wire and fuel line and get home unless the motor broke.

I have a 56 Ford 500 tractor that will start instantly cold or hot. It has gravity feed fuel and a 6v starter with a 12v battery and a manual choke. It's also immune to an EMP if that makes any difference.

[Froogal]

It's barely broken in.
All it probably needs is to be detailed and waxed.

The only paint still on it is on the engine, but it is pretty much covered with an oil film. Pretty sure the old girl has never been repainted because all of the original decals are still there. Can't read them, but they are there.

[Froogal]

If you always know exactly how many pumps to give, always have a functioning choke, and always have fuel in the bowl, then they start fine in the cold. Provided your carburetor is clean too, as well as tuned for the cold, or at least a little rich in the summer. That is if you don't count the fact they don't hardly drive for 5-10 minutes after starting. Miss any of those things though, and you just gave yourself a headache. Electric chokes can kiss my ass. I have yet to see one that worked for any amount of time. Manual chokes work fine.

I'm not anti-carburetor. Taking a perfect running 5.3 LS from one of the best years they ever made them with one of the most reliable fuel injections systems ever made, and wanting to put in a smogged down 5.7 turd? At least say you want something cool like say hotrodding your current 5.3, then sure, a carburetor is a less expensive way to do that than an aftermarket fuel injection system.

Every vehicle I ever owned with an electric choke got converted to a manual choke.

[jonp]

This!!

The reason I swapped the motor instead of rebuilding it was the oil pan and timing cover was filled with metal pieces looked like shiny metallic finger nail clippings mixed with shiny sludge and burnt goo.

Would cost at least a thousand bucks a head to start and both were trashed. It failed from oil starvation and there was no way I'm trusting the lower end not to poop the bed.

Some where a Ford engineer is giggling at the stupid design of the Ford modular v8 and the absolute dependence it has of tiny oil ports to lube and cool a poorly designed vvt system.

We've done a bunch of them at the shop.


I don't want to do all the work and still have metal trash stuck in a oil pressure port somewhere.

Still rolled the dice with a reman and got burned by shifty quality control. On first start up it had collapsed lifters and low oil pressure and phaser tick. The jasper rep lied to my face saying they live run reliability test all blocks before shipping them out. He retired and his replacement was so ashamed he sent me another reman this past summer.

This one is a little better.

Winger it sounds like you got one of the good ones that Ford built.

The guy I had do my last work on my 2004 5.4 Triton said the same thing and all his shop works on is Ford Trucks. I asked him if he did engine rebuilds and he said yes but recommends a crate engine. Just too much to go wrong in the 2004-2008 Tritons. Faster and easier to just drop in a new one.

[jonp]

Uncle had to310614 change the turbos on a 3.5 eco boost. While he had him opened up did timing chains

How old is that? Are turbo's a problem or known problem in these?

[Recycled bullet]

How old is that? Are turbo's a problem or known problem in these?The turbos leak coolant. This is the first cab off eco boost I've ever seen.

We service the turbos and cooler pipes with cab in place.

[MaryB]

The turbos leak coolant. This is the first cab off eco boost I've ever seen.

We service the turbos and cooler pipes with cab in place.

First gen ecoboost I am guessing...

I have the 2.0 and turbos are not a problem with it. Pretty reliable little engine from research I did. Guys are swapping in much bigger turbos and pushing them to 450HP on stock bottom ends. Mine is a 2017 and the redesigned from the ground up engine. Designed with turbo boost in mind. I have an intercooler to put on mine when it warms up... squeak out a few more HP but it has the same HP as the 2001 5.4 Triton I had before it. 5.4 was 245, 2.0 is 235! Gives up some torque though! As little as I drive that engine will outlast me.

[Recycled bullet]

With the Triton engines, to remove and replace spark plugs without breakage in the head if possible, I dislike using the broken spark plug extractor and removing ceramic chips from the cylinder: This is how I learned to do it.

Test drive the truck get it to full operating temperature with an aggressive test drive.

Feed it gum cutter cleaner or any top end cleaner through a vacuum hose or throttle body run it rich then feed it until it stalls.

Remove all the ignition coils crack all the spark plugs loose back and forth maybe a quarter or half turn then spray penetrating oil into the spark plug holes and reassemble the coils and drive it again.

Then while it's still hot remove all the coils and using a 3/8 impact wrench remove the spark plugs.

Most times the extractor gets to stay in the toolbox, and from a production standpoint this is so much faster and higher quality than extracting broken crap from the cylinder head, installing heli-coils, hoping for the best.

[Winger Ed.]

Remove all the ignition coils crack all the spark plugs loose back and forth maybe a quarter or half turn then spray penetrating oil into the spark plug holes and reassemble the coils and drive it again. .

That's pretty much how I did mine a couple years ago.
I wasn't in a big hurry, and let the penetrating oil sit on them a couple days.
I didn't use an impact on them though--- it gets me in trouble sometimes.
I'm not fast enough to make much money as a mechanic, but I only broke off one.

Next week the new front springs and Kryptonite ball joints will be in.
So I've got that project to look forward to instead of hanging out in one of those crooked BINGO parlors.

[Recycled bullet]

Sometimes I work on someone else's misdiagnosis orhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230226/31e24fcfbb5949c16b8ccb90da95a835.jpg comeback from another shop.

Thosehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230226/22ee03c7be65c9466a0c54e70f0b12c6.jpg really brighten my day.

Some guys think it's ok to tighten it until it loosens then back it off a quarter turn.

[MaryB]

With the Triton engines, to remove and replace spark plugs without breakage in the head if possible, I dislike using the broken spark plug extractor and removing ceramic chips from the cylinder: This is how I learned to do it.

Test drive the truck get it to full operating temperature with an aggressive test drive.

Feed it gum cutter cleaner or any top end cleaner through a vacuum hose or throttle body run it rich then feed it until it stalls.

Remove all the ignition coils crack all the spark plugs loose back and forth maybe a quarter or half turn then spray penetrating oil into the spark plug holes and reassemble the coils and drive it again.

Then while it's still hot remove all the coils and using a 3/8 impact wrench remove the spark plugs.

Most times the extractor gets to stay in the toolbox, and from a production standpoint this is so much faster and higher quality than extracting broken crap from the cylinder head, installing heli-coils, hoping for the best.

They no longer use a helicoil, that was the original non fix... they have a special insert now...

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-jtxevi2o/images/stencil/608x608/products/59879/83217/ATD-5412_3V_Insert__84831.1468591533.JPG

[Recycled bullet]

They no longer use a helicoil, that was the original non fix... they have a special insert now...

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-jtxevi2o/images/stencil/608x608/products/59879/83217/ATD-5412_3V_Insert__84831.1468591533.JPGThat's really cool I've never seen that. What is it called?

I strongly dislike heli coils.

The last one I used on a 2005 Honda Pilot powertrain mount bracket, the stupid one over the steering rack, the last guy smeared red lock tight on the bolt and cross threaded it.

The complaint was a loud banging when shifting direction. The mount was broken.

[Winger Ed.]

Some guys think it's ok to tighten it until it loosens then back it off a quarter turn.


I've heard that technique called a audio torque wrench. Tighten a bolt until it 'chirps', then back off 1/8 of a turn.

[Recycled bullet]

I've heard that technique called a audio torque wrench. Tighten a bolt until it 'chirps', then back off 1/8 of a turn.Well what I meant with tighten until it loosens then back it off a quarter turn,

was that he tightened until it broke the bolt, then stripped out the threads, then loosened it to pound it into the aluminum with a hammer and punch.

The last guy to install that bolt knew he broke it off in the blind hole and sent it out anyways.

The upper part was separately cross threaded in then covered both sides of the gasket with my estimation multiple tubes of rtv.

It was leaking profusely. The customer said the dealership did that job last summer.

It is a valve cover bolt forhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230226/a9649e6f04fe32b0794b8188fdc4fe4b.jpg 2L Mazda CX5.

[MaryB]

That's really cool I've never seen that. What is it called?

I strongly dislike heli coils.

The last one I used on a 2005 Honda Pilot powertrain mount bracket, the stupid one over the steering rack, the last guy smeared red lock tight on the bolt and cross threaded it.

The complaint was a loud banging when shifting direction. The mount was broken.

5.4 Triton spark plug insert... that will get you to the sources for them... no clue what it is called beyond a pain in the rear to install...

[Recycled bullet]

Somebody installed the ball joint with the zerk fitting facing the wheel hub, it is impossible to add grease.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230228/082abd24aba707ea38245f8c7e915856.jpg

[kfd518]

I cleaned & flushed the injectors, and re-set the computer.
The (4) O2 sensors are fresh. I haven't put it on a diagnostic tool yet, but it seems to be fine.

It's only got 61,000 miles on it, but I've more than kept up with the preventive maintenance.
Some things I've changed more for their age than mileage is plugs, coils, filters, trans fluid, serpentine belt & pullies,
coolant, front springs, cab mount bushings, shocks, grease frt. wheel bearings, MAF sensor, oil at 3,000 miles.
The rear axle oil is on the list for when the weather warms up.

Weather scheduled to be mid 80’s the next few days;-) .
I welded in a drain bung and fill bung in my rear diff cover. I dislike the fill/ inspection plug that froze TIGHT in my 10.25 years ago. I had to fill it through the VSS hole in the top. Just glad I knew before that happened what how much it took to fill it. Much less messy now! Same with the trans pan as well as changing to a 4WD pan for more fluid capacity.

[megasupermagnum]

I doubt if I'll get around to it, but that's sort of what I planned for my next hot rod project.

I looked around, and see that our '02 Explorer with 110,000 miles on it couldn't run any better.
As old as it is, it's worth about $3,000. max. I'd spend more than that on a power train for the next project.
If I do it, I'll probably just get a '34 Ford fiberglass body, and put it on top of the Explorer chassis and power train.
That gives me a fairly modern suspension, a really good more or less modern fuel injected OHC V6 and trans that
had its fluid changed twice, never been over loaded or over heated, and pulls like the day we brought it home.

It's not though. The Triton V8's are likely the worst engines to be put in trucks in the last 30 years. The 4.0 SOHC is likely the second worst engine, it's a total dud. It is an abomination of the 4.0 OHV with miles of timing chains, and built in time bombs. Count yourself lucky it got to 110,000 miles, and sell it. As soon as you hear any rattle or tick, it's too late. You have to pull the engine to fix the timing chains being as they put a chain in the BACK of the engine like morons. The transmissions were not great either. The M50D-R1 manual is not bad, but not that good, and I don't think they ever used it with the 4.0 SOHC engine, only the 4.0 OHV engine which was actually a good engine. The 5R55W automatic is bad. Not the worst, but it's not strong, and it doesn't last.

The suspension and axles on the 3rd gen explorers are a joke. It's just an oversized sedan. The first and second gen explorers are the real gems, those are the ones jeep guys hunted for parts. They are full frame, real axle, off road capable machines.

[megasupermagnum]

I cleaned & flushed the injectors, and re-set the computer.
The (4) O2 sensors are fresh. I haven't put it on a diagnostic tool yet, but it seems to be fine.

It's only got 61,000 miles on it, but I've more than kept up with the preventive maintenance.
Some things I've changed more for their age than mileage is plugs, coils, filters, trans fluid, serpentine belt & pullies,
coolant, front springs, cab mount bushings, shocks, grease frt. wheel bearings, MAF sensor, oil at 3,000 miles.
The rear axle oil is on the list for when the weather warms up.

That's good. The 5.4 triton is a horrible engine, but if you do the work like you have done, it should be good. Thankfully most Triton problems are on the outside. The internals of the engine are not known to fail. The timing chains can, but they are no different than most engines to replace.

You did two good ones people often miss. Transmission fluid is as important as engine oil, but people are usually too lazy to replace it. Coolant is one people often miss. For anyone reading, coolant goes bad in time, not miles. It depends on what coolant you use, but I doubt any mechanic would say to run coolant more than 5 years. 3 years used to be typical. Over time coolant becomes acidic, and looses its good properties. By the time coolant turns colors you can be sure it has eaten into gaskets. Old coolant is likely one of the biggest causes of water pump failures. I can't imagine it being great for intake gaskets or any other seals. I'm sure it's not great to older headgaskets either, but almost all engines now use MLS gaskets which shouldn't be hurt. That's not to mention that old coolant has a lower boiling point.

Another one that is often overlooked and goes bad in time, not miles is brake fluid. DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluid is hydroscopic. As it picks up moisture it both lowers in boiling point, as well as becoming harmful to seals, and can even rust out brake lines. This one always got me because putting fresh brake fluid in is so easy. Just do it when you rotate tires. Use a loop of hose to keep air from getting in, crack the bleeder, and pump until fresh fluid comes out. Easy as that.

[rbuck351]

They used to make an insert similar to the one for the triton 5.4 called a keensert. The only difference is the keensert has four pins in slots down the sides of the insert. They started out sticking out the top edge of the insert and were driven down to lock the insert in place after it was screwed in. Ford should put those inserts in the heads from the factory. A spark plug doesn't grow to steel like it does to aluminum.

[megasupermagnum]

Aluminum has nothing to do with the problem. You will hardly find an engine made in the last 20 years of any make that doesn't use aluminum heads. Aluminum heads are superior to steel/iron in almost every way.

The problems with the Triton engines is purely engineering. The early ones have horrible head designs, and in this instance the spark plug only engages 3 to 4 threads. Later they "fixed" that by using a two piece sparkplug, however, those then break in half making removal a major ordeal. It's hard to pick which is worse.

Other than that one engine, steel sparkplugs in a threaded aluminum head are no problem at all. I've never had one get stuck that bad, not any worse than one that rusts together with an iron head. They certainly don't blow out if your head wasn't designed by monkeys. You have to go way, WAY back to find any kind of racing engine with steel heads.

[rbuck351]

Aluminum heads are great and are superior in ALMOST every way. I worked as a motorcycle mechanic for about 8 years all of which used aluminum heads. Then I worked in auto engine rebuild shops for another 20 years or so. During that time I put a lot of heli coils and a few keen serts in aluminum heads but I do not recall ever fixing a spark plug hole in a cast iron head. Bolt holes in aluminum motorcycle parts were another serious problem.

I realize that the design of the triton engine is poor at best but that is not the only engine with aluminum heads that has problems pulling threads from the head when you try to remove a spark plug. The simple fix is to pull plugs as soon as you get any engine with aluminum heads and coat the threads with anti seize. That won't fix a design issue but will fix stuck plugs. It helps on iron heads as well but rarely needed. Early Fords with the FE series engines (iron heads) sometimes had issues with plug removal.

[popper]

Those inserts have been used for years. Honda CB350 had a bad plug hole, insert installed, no problem. Didn't even remove the head.

[jonp]

Somebody installed the ball joint with the zerk fitting facing the wheel hub, it is impossible to add grease.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230228/082abd24aba707ea38245f8c7e915856.jpg

Oy. I order all my parts with fittings including the driver shaft as I'm old fashioned that way. About to put a pair of ball joints in my F150 and they do have grease fittings.

[farmbif]

ford sure was working with some real brilliant engine designers and engineers back in early 2000's with the wonderful triton 3 valve engines and the plug and timing problems with them and who knows how many of the 10 cylinder engines have plugs blown out of heads on them and then there is the most wonderful 6.0l diesel which was probably rightfully so earned itself the fantastic reputation as the absolute worst engine ever built. yup, real genius at work. if the f150 didn't have such a huge following and so many municipalities didn't rely on fords for fleet vehicles these engines probably could have put ford out of business

[Recycled bullet]

It's less work to replace the air conditioning evaporator than it is to replace the blower motor on a 2017 Ford Escape.

Chew on that for a minute[emoji3]

[Winger Ed.]

Oy. About to put a pair of ball joints in my F150 and they do have grease fittings.

I'm in the process of that on the F250.
I'm doing those-- I got a set of Kryponite ones that have the grease fitting straight down on the bottom.
Kind of hard to get them in wrong.

I'm changing the front springs too for a set of Cargomax HD, and maybe brake pads. I haven't look too close at they yet.
I did the springs & shocks a year or so ago, but have never been happy with the el-cheapoes.

I thought I'd be farther along today, until I broke off the top keeper bolt for one spring.
But, I've gotten pretty good at drilling and tapping things like that.

I've been watching youtube videos of other guys doing this, and can't believe the trucks they're working on.
Spring bucket/mounts on top of the springs just rotted away with holes in them.
Rust coming off the frame like the layers of a onion.
Some of them just don't look safe to drive.
Down here, we look at them as 'rolling totals'. It's amazing that they're fixing them.

Also on the bench is the flush kit & fluid for the brakes and the 2 gallons of fluid for the transmission.
As well as the new gasket & oil for the rear end.

[MaryB]

It's less work to replace the air conditioning evaporator than it is to replace the blower motor on a 2017 Ford Escape.

Chew on that for a minute[emoji3]

100,000 mile no matter what warranty :grin: not my problem!

[rbuck351]

All four of my vehicles have over 200,000 miles, are paid for and I do all the work on them. The newest is a 2001 and is easy to work on but that has been rare. Newer cars have a lot of complicated electronics on them which are normally expensive and the engine compartments are usually very tight. Many of the parts are very hard to get at. I have a 93 Jeep yj, a 98 Dodge Cummins a 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee and a 2001 Chevy Cavalier. The Jeep Cherokee is the only one that is difficult to work on and it's not too bad. If I ever have to buy another car, it won't be a new one.

[megasupermagnum]

All four of my vehicles have over 200,000 miles, are paid for and I do all the work on them. The newest is a 2001 and is easy to work on but that has been rare. Newer cars have a lot of complicated electronics on them which are normally expensive and the engine compartments are usually very tight. Many of the parts are very hard to get at. I have a 93 Jeep yj, a 98 Dodge Cummins a 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee and a 2001 Chevy Cavalier. The Jeep Cherokee is the only one that is difficult to work on and it's not too bad. If I ever have to buy another car, it won't be a new one.

I think it is a misnomer to assume all new vehicles are hard to work on. One of the problems is most people buying new cars are buying every bell and whistle. Your examples aren't really fair, since those are simple vehicles, even by those year standards. Look at something like that above mentioned 2002 Ford Explorer, and you would realize there were plenty of vehicles that were terrible to work on. I hate working on late 80's, early 90's Chevy trucks. Their TBI and later Vortec fuel injection systems were disasters. I guess I shouldn't hit on TBI too bad, its really not that terrible, but it's an oddball system, not super durable, but it is more consistent than a carburetor. Vortec fuel injection though, horrible. Hard to work on, SUPER expensive, super sensitive to any problems. 58 psi fuel pressure, run like a charm. 54 psi fuel pressure, might not even start at all.

The biggest overall change I've seen for working on vehicles from the 80's to the mid 2000's was progressively getting away from individual parts, and going to full assemblies. Some of this was from improved designs, some of it was for ease of manufacturing. A good example is the above ball joints. You don't just replace ball joints anymore, you buy an entire control arm assembly. Another might be wheel bearings. You don't replace wheel bearings, you replace hub assemblies. Some of it is good, some is bad. In the case of ball joints, the price is higher, but at the same time the job is 100X easier on new vehicles. By the time you beat the rusty old knuckle off an old truck, you could have all ball joints replaced on a new truck. Wheel bearings I'm not sure how I feel. They really aren't that much easier to do as an assembly, less mess for sure, and sometimes they can be a real PITA to get the assembly out if corroded. Then again, some old trucks need special sockets or other tools to replace bearings.

As for electronics, the same thing can apply. Instead of a single computer running a lot of things, new cars have modules for everything. One for the engine, one for the transmission, one for the body, one for the fuel pump , sometimes every light has a module. Everything has a module. At least most new cars left enough wire in the door. Your 99 jeep grand cherokee is one of them that often had wiring too short in the doors, so over time it breaks. Sometimes it would kill power to the entire vehicle. Sometimes the recall fix works, many times not. You can't just buy the little harness, you have to buy the entire under dash harness. Price one of those sometime.

I will agree with you that car electronics have got out of hand. Obamas socialist scam "cash for clunkers" absolutely wrecked the used car market. The poor lost a million perfectly running vehicles, the rich used tax money to buy themselves brand new cars. If you can come up with the money, there's nothing stopping you from buying a fleet truck. Without all that nonsense that so many people buy, there's really not that much to a new truck. The engine and transmission computers are much more complex, but working on them isn't that bad. People look at direct fuel injection and get scared, but there's no reason to. It's just as easy to work on as port injection, and it's really not that much more expensive from what I've found. The drivetrains are still just gears, axles, shafts, and joints. It's really not that much different.