7.62X54R powder

[jack19512]

Does anyone know what powder or what would be it's equivalent that was used in the 7.62X54R ammo that is around 147 gr. silver tip? I bought this ammo so long ago that I am not even sure of the manufacturer now. I think it was Czech ammo but not sure.

[wiljen]

Are you wanting to pull it and use it in other rounds ? It would help to have a chrono result and a grain weight in estimating burn speed.

[jack19512]

Are you wanting to pull it and use it in other rounds ?






Yes, I have a lot of it and it never was that accurate in my Mosins. I can tell you that the powder charge was right at 45 grains and the bullet weighs right at 147 grains and is the silver tip ammo.

[NuJudge]

My experience is that the powder charge in surplus ammo is usually not the cause of inaccuracy, it's more the bullet.

Pulling the bullet, adjusting the powder charge down slightly, and inserting a commercial bullet may cause a real improvement.

CDD

[Freightman]

If you are going to pull the ammo down and reuse the powder you really need a chrno where you can start low and work up, I have pulled down some Albanian , Russian and czech and they are all different powder. I used some Albanian in a .308 and it was very accurate. The only problem is you can't duplicate the results after you are out of powder.
I have right at 1500 rounds of Czech and Russian and no MN, think I will trade for some powder as I am t lazy to pull it down. or leave it alone and get me a MN.

[Trapshooter]

Czech light ball is some of the most accurate mil surp ammo I have ever used, in a number of different rifles, Finns, 91's, and SVT's! If your shoulder can take it, it shoots! Around here, if you didn't want to shoot it, you could probably peddle it, and probably make out pretty well.

Trapshooter

[Freightman]

Czech light ball is some of the most accurate mil surp ammo I have ever used, in a number of different rifles, Finns, 91's, and SVT's! If your shoulder can take it, it shoots! Around here, if you didn't want to shoot it, you could probably peddle it, and probably make out pretty well.

Trapshooter
I am with you the Czech is the best and the Russian is not far behind, I will have another MN just do not have one now, that is why I keep the ammo as I know I will get another someday.

[Tom-n8ies]

The burning rate would probably be in the neighborhood of 4895, I bought some surplus russian 4895 as it was called, The web site said it is a little slower than 4895 in between or closer to 4064 in burning rate. I think it was probably pulldown powder from 7.62x54r.

tom

[Three44s]

Not wanting to hijack your thread on powder used in a foreign made ammo ..... but my limited reloading experience with J words .... no boolits yet ...... in my M38 Mosin reads like this ......

I loaded winchester's 150 gr. Power point (.308) ahead of 49 gr. of Varget (after working up to that level ..... 50.5 is max if I recall correctly) ....... and recoil aside ......... I was hitting golf balls at 45 yards with the factory irons ....... and I am no iron sight fan unless "they be peepers" .......!

Three 44s

[jack19512]

Not wanting to hijack your thread on powder used in a foreign made ammo ..... but my limited reloading experience with J words .... no boolits yet ...... in my M38 Mosin reads like this ......







I have had 4 M/N's, 2 were 91/30's, 1 M44, and 1 M38. My M38 is by far the most accurate of them all. When I first got the M38 it shot so bad with this ammo I am asking about I almost got rid of it.

With my reloads my M38 is very accurate. Below is a 3 shot group from around 70 yards. Also a pic of my M38. I don't shoot cast from the M38 but do from my 91/30.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/M38reloads.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/M38.jpg

[Bluehawk1]

Czech Silvertip LPS ammo with 45 grains of powder is a light load. I procured a case of the ST LPS a few years ago...each box was a light green with a diagonal silver stripe across it and powder was 50 grains!
When fired in hot weather...95+ degrees F...the firing pin pierced every primer and had to hammer the bolt open.
I pulled several boxes down and decreased each box of 20 rounds by 2 grains. It wasn't until I got to 44 grains that the problem ceased!
(wasn't a firing pin problem as I set that to minimum on my MN 91/30)

[Freightman]

I had some silver tip pull down and used a 42gr load with a 405 HB boolit in a 45/70 the crono said 1590/1630FPS was not bad accuracy, and the recoil was medium to the light end.
As said you need a cronograph when playing with unknown powders. Be carefull out there.

[Nora]

FWIW my M39 with a .301/.311 bore will shoot the silver tips (head stamp bxn 64) with an over all average of 2935 fps. Ambient temp 75*F. FMJ 149.6 gn w/47.0 gn powder.

[jimkim]

I remembered reading something about this on the CBA,Inc. Forum. I hope this is helpful.

This was posted by Ed Harris on 01-02-08.

The 7.62x54R with silver paint tip is LPS mild steel core ball ammo. Rifle-grade lots loaded in brass cases are usually OK, but most in steel cases was intended for the PK machinegun, is loaded hotter and is of generally poorer quality.

Powder in Polish and USSR stuff I've taken apart is extruded tubular, about 50 grains, similar in burning rate to 3031. Chinese stuff is irregular flake, about 45 grs. which looks like chopped up mainsprings from half-dollar watches and smells like camphor. Burns fast between RL-7 and 4198.

If you are getting hard extraction in the arsenal ammo try reducing powder charges 15% when you reload. This will ease exrtraction and reduce recoil, but there is nothing you can do to make poorly assembled bullets more accurate.

I wouldn't waste good Red Dot to shoot up crappy bullets. Pull, salvage the powder, reload with 15% reduced charge to cut down recoil and plink with it. It would be OK to substitute a jacketed bullet of the same or lighter weight with the reduced charge. I have also salvaged Chinese powder and used it for cast loads in half charges with the Lee .312-155-2R cast of wheelweights and gas checked.

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=1701&forum_id=8&highlight=chinese+powder

[fgd135]

I've reloaded military 7.62x54r rounds quite a bit, and you can greatly improve accuracy, even with those military bullets, by precision reloading:
1) Measure 20-50 loaded cartridge's oal and write it down;pull bullets, weigh charges, and write down every charge.
2) Use that to get an average oal and charge wt. That is now your maximum powder charge.
3) Weigh each and every one of those pulled bullets. Get the average and use that as the baseline for culling out any bullet that is +- 1 grain from that average. 4) Disassemble all the remaining rounds in the lot that you are going to reutilize.
5) Re-assemble the rounds, starting with 10-15% less powder than the max you have already established. Use a scale to weigh every charge, etc.
6) Toss out any bullet that is out of the spec you have established, at least for now, and just use the spec bullets seated to the average oal from previous measurements.You can certainly be more precise with the sorting if you want, and use a half grain for the cull. Also eliminate bullets with tip or base dings. You could also measure bullet diameter and sort.


Work loads back up to the max charge if you want, but my guess is you will find a pretty accurate load at a point somewhat below max. We all know this, of course, but take the time to weigh each charge and carefully select and seat each bullet if you want increased accuracy and not just less recoil.

OK, so these are not match bullets, but I've increased the accuracy of surplus ammo this way for years. In my experience group sizes will shrink considerably. It won't be match ammo, but it will be better ammo.
IIRC, this same technique was used in some of the recent Balkan wars to improve the quality of available ammo for indigenous sniper teams.

One final note, this technique has to be repeated for each different lot # of military ammo, even from the same country or factory, as military powder is not necessarily consistent lot to lot, and year to year.

[Nora]

I remembered reading something about this on the CBA,Inc. Forum. I hope this is helpful.

This was posted by Ed Harris on 01-02-08.

The 7.62x54R with silver paint tip is LPS mild steel core ball ammo. Rifle-grade lots loaded in brass cases are usually OK, but most in steel cases was intended for the PK machinegun, is loaded hotter and is of generally poorer quality.


That's funny! I agree with Ed, that it isn't the best of the surplus offering. But have also seen the silver tips being listed by SOG as "snipper grade" ammo a few years back.

[sjohnson]

It must depend on which lot of Czech silvertip you shoot. Russian "sniper" 7.62x54r available in the U.S. was designed for use in the SVD. In my bolt action Soviet and Finnish Mosin Nagant rifles the Russian is OK, but the Czechoslovakian LPS Silvertip really shines as far as surplus ammunition goes. Easily MOA if I do my part.

One man's test isn't everything, but at http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo011.htm the Czech light ball had some of the lowest ES and SD of dozens of 7.62x54r tested.