Lee Seating Die & Cast bullets

[robertbank]

OK, dumb question. Borowed a Lee set to load some cartridges for my K 31. I sized down some Lee 312155 to .311, The seating die leaves a slight ring around the nose of the bullet. Is there something I can do to prevent this?

Take Care

Bob

[EMC45]

Buff the inside with some emery cloth or a cratex bob spun with your fingers. I have had to do this with a bunch of my seaters.

[docone31]

I wouldn't worry about it. When you get your set, you can polish the edge. Usually it is a small amount.
Lead castings tend to be wider at that point than jacketeds the dies were made for.

[largom]

You said you had "borrowed" the die's. I would not modify the seating stem without the owners permission.
I make my own seating stems fit each boolit by drilling them out and filling with epoxy over a seated boolit.
LARRY

[mooman76]

I would think if you seperated the seating and crimping process, it should eliminate the ring. You should be getting it from exerting pressure on the bullet when seating and the crimping takes over and keeps the bullet from seating farther. It's worth a shot anyway.

[JesterGrin_1]

The problem I have found is that the Lee Die is great for Jacketed rounds but when you go to oversize cast they are a bit too small and will tend to try and crush the bullet in the case. Which can also cause the BOOLIT that you worked so hard to size right for the rifle to be made undersize after it is crimped into the case. This is why one mentioned to open up the die the needed amount to correct this.

[robertbank]

Hi

Thanks for the replies. I didn't set the die so it would do the crimp. The cases were flared just a hair to allow the bullet to seat without shaving the bullet. What little flare there is does not seem to effect chambering. I will get a Lee FCD with the dies coming from a friend down it Texas. These bullets are realy just to see how the gun fares at 50 yards.

Take Care

Bob

[Willbird]

Typically Lee bullet seater dies are a joke, take a look at a real bullet seater die and you will see what I mean ;-)

Bill

[largom]

Typically Lee bullet seater dies are a joke, take a look at a real bullet seater die and you will see what I mean ;-)

Bill

You got that right! Redding competition are one of the better, Hornady dies are good also and less expensive.
LARRY

[1hole]

"...the BOOLIT that you worked so hard to size right for the rifle to be made undersize after it is crimped into the case."

Lee's seaters are good. The reason some loaders problems with cast bullet in them is the bullet guide/neck is such a tight fit - for better bullet alignment - so oversize bullets WILL be rubbed a bit. Meaning Lee's seaters are not ideal for oversize cast bullets but they do quite will with jacketed. For oversized cast stuff, get another brand of of dies, they will be cut to a more sloppy neck fit and you will be fine.

It's really not intellectually honest to compare the excellant but expensve Forster and Redding Comp/BR seater dies with ANY others, including Hornady's. The staight-line dies are a whole different type and they cost MUCH more because of it! But, few factory rifes will ever know the difference so the costly dies are an unhelpful expense for most of us.

[Nobade]

They're not hardened. I just ream them to .002 or so over the size of the boolit. Problem solved.

[largom]

"...the BOOLIT that you worked so hard to size right for the rifle to be made undersize after it is crimped into the case."

Lee's seaters are good. The reason some loaders problems with cast bullet in them is the bullet guide/neck is such a tight fit - for better bullet alignment - so oversize bullets WILL be rubbed a bit. Meaning Lee's seaters are not ideal for oversize cast bullets but they do quite will with jacketed. For oversized cast stuff, get another brand of of dies, they will be cut to a more sloppy neck fit and you will be fine.

It's really not intellectually honest to compare the excellant but expensve Forster and Redding Comp/BR seater dies with ANY others, including Hornady's. The staight-line dies are a whole different type and they cost MUCH more because of it! But, few factory rifes will ever know the difference so the costly dies are an unhelpful expense for most of us.


First I will say that I like Most of Lee's reloading equipment. I am happy to say that they are a sponsor of this forum. I also own quite a bit of Lee tools. However, it is my opinion that their seating die is a weak link. The seating stem alignes itself to the bullet rather than aligning the bullet to the case. Yes, the bullet is somewhat supported by a portion of the die and or the case neck, but not enough to assure straight seating.
No you cannot compare Lee to Redding or Forrester, that would be like compareing a VW to a Lincoln. But, I will compare a Lee seating die to a Hornady die and the Hornady is FAR superior.
To say that factory guns will not know the difference is in error. Feed any gun poorly assembled ammunition and the results will be evident. My factory guns and myself, as a shooter, need all of the help we can get. Therefore I strive to make my ammunition as best as I possibly can.
LARRY

[1hole]

"To say that factory guns will not know the difference is in error. Feed any gun poorly assembled ammunition and the results will be evident."

I think you may have misunderstood my statement.

Did NOT mean that loader "error", or poorly made ammo is irrelivant, that's obviously never true!
Did mean that the frequent agonising over which die brand is "best" and which is "junk" is pointless. They are all good if we look at the typical targets. Few factory rifle rifles fitted with common barrels and chambers are of sufficent quality to show any difference at the target with properly assembled ammo from the average dies made by Lee, Hornady, RCBS, Lyman, Herter's, Eagle, Pacific, Wells, etc.. And that includes the truly higher grade dies from Redding and Foster, if used clumsily. Right? :???:

I have been reloading a LONG time and have owned many brands of dies. Some were indeed "better" than others but it has been by individual sets, or more accurately, individual dies, but not by brand. In a mixture of dies in a given caliber and maker, the sizer in one set will be "better" and the seater in another set will be "better". It's rare for the best two to be in a single set, and the brand doesn't matter. So, anyone who thinks he will instantly get better accuracy by buying a set of conventional dies from any particular brand is kidding himself! (That excudes the hand dies used by BR shooters, but then their rifles are NOT factory issue either. It takes a lot of rifle quality AND loadder skill to realize any of the real benefits from a set of Wilson hand dies!) :-D

Hornady's short sliding seater sleeve is not new. The same idea was used by at least three makers in the 50s and 60s. (Lyman, Herters and Wells, with a side loading variation by Vickerman) The sleeves can ONLY align the bullet and the neck and does nothing at all to center the lower body of the cases. Given the required slop to allow the short sleeve to move freely inside the die, I don't think it can ever be any better today than it was before. All of the other makers had dropped that idea long before Hornady revived it a few years ago. It IS convienent, but more "accurate"? No more so, on average, than any other seater design, at least not in my experience! It's my concentricty gage after testing several Hornady seaters that makes that appraisal, it's not just my poor opinon based on what I want to be so.

I've made rifle and die chamber casts and measured brass from a lot of dies over the last 45 years. I've found the average "precision" between dies of the same maker varies as much as between makers! They all seem to stick within SAAMI tolerances, plus or minus, pretty well. But I've found none to be better than the others in any significant way. If anyone disagrees, fine, but if you want to argue, please present some statistically relivant evidence or measurements, not just opinion or a statistically irrelivant single instance of some difference. :mrgreen:

Some people LIKE one feature or another but that is no valid reflection on the utility of the dies themselves. Some like the Lee/Hornady decapper rod holder, some don't. Some like RCBS lock rings, some like Fosters. Some want a micrometer seater plug, some don't care. Some are willing to pay a premium for a shiney exterior, some aren't. But it's the insides that do the work. The use of any specific set brand or type of dies certainly doesn't equate to automatic superiority or accuracy nor do they convey a greater skill level to the loader himself. None of that trivia affects the potential quality of the ammo that can produced with the dies and THAT was my point.

[largom]

1hole,
Well said, and it appears we both think somewhat alike. I too have been handloading for over 55 yrs. and own dies from all manufacturer's. And when I load I mix them up, finding a segment of one brand works better than than it's counterpart in the original set.
Since I modify a lot of my dies for cast boolits I may choose a die based on how easy it is to modify or rework.
Did miss your point in your first post.
Larry

[TAWILDCATT]

1 hole and largom: your spoiling the whole discusion with reason.hornadys sleeve helps the bullet go in case straight,nothing else.I have loaded since 1939?.
started on win tong tool.I shot pistol compitition since 1969.my ammo was fine my eyes were not.price does not a diamond make.I use lee lyman herters and bonanza also Modern Bond.they all work.some better than others but they all make good ammo.think about the old time reloaders that did not have modern tools.there were very few tools as good as now until the 1950s.:coffeecom[smilie=1:

[jhalcott]

Robertbank, think of that little ring on the nose as a sonic breaker! it will help keep the bullet on line as it drops back thru transonic speed. Of course if you aren't shooting at ranges to have transonic problems you can get a 2nd seater stem and modify it to fit the nose of your bullet.