300gr 44 mag lever action load

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

I'm looking for a load out of my 20" lever action with a 300gr cast bullets doing 1,200 - 1,300 fps

The bullets are cast truncated cone, no gas check and with BHN 15.4, rated 19,100 PSI by the maker.

Powders I have are Unique, 2400, H110, Lil'gun, Viht N105 and N110.

There are what I think are some promising loads in the Lyman manual but they only quote a 300gr bullet in pistol length barrels.

For this I'm not worried about single loading and I have some 44 special cases I could also use if there is data that would work there.

Scrummy

[pworley1]

Start with about 18g of 2400 and work up until you get what you want.

[racepres]

Once I get the Ruger 96/44 sighted in with a load...I will chronograph.
Since I use the Lee 310, with check, it needs to be seated to shortest crimp groove, for feeding.. so, I would check how much Boolit is in the case, before you try any load!! as of Now, H-110 and AA1680, are getting the Nod. Again, I will Chronograph once I find what I am looking for..
Good Luck...and as always, Give us Feedback

[TurnipEaterDown]

W/ 240 - 300 gr bullet, higher end charge loads in a 44 Rem Mag, you can probably expect 200-250 fps difference between 7.5" revolver barrel and 14" closed breach, and 50-100 fps going from 14" - 20 inch. Light 200 gr loads (7 gr W231), I would expect ~300 fps between revolver and 14" closed breach. This was my Chronograph findings w/ several loads. Of course, my comments apply to a select few loads, and some things may be outliers.
Also, you should be able to look in a Lyman reloading manual and find data for revolver, TC & rifle each for 44 Rem Mag (very popular) and make your own "free" comparison on select loads.

[racepres]

W/ 240 - 300 gr bullet, higher end charge loads in a 44 Rem Mag, you can probably expect 200-250 fps difference between 7.5" revolver barrel and 14" closed breach, and 50-100 fps going from 14" - 20 inch. Light 200 gr loads (7 gr W231), I would expect ~300 fps between revolver and 14" closed breach. This was my Chronograph findings w/ several loads. Of course, my comments apply to a select few loads, and some things may be outliers.
Also, you should be able to look in a Lyman reloading manual and find data for revolver, TC & rifle each for 44 Rem Mag (very popular) and make your own "free" comparison on select loads.

Better response right there... except for your Target velocity, and the powders you list... I'm leaning toward a load with Unique, tho I have Never used 231 for anything so... probably More good advice...

[Scrumbag]

Thanks folks! Keep the suggestions coming!

[crandall crank]

I've used H110 in full power 44 mag loads. I've got some of the Lee 310 grains to load up.

[Scrumbag]

Thanks @Crandall crank.

Any idea on speed?

The reason I ask is I'm looking for a load that replicates the MV of a shotgun slug. I go hunting driven wild boar in Europe and we have ranges and shooting cinemas that have running boar targets they tend not to allow you to use slugs which are quite popular for hunting driven boar.

So, if I put a red dot on my lever action I can get the same sight picture as with a slug for the same lead with a bullet going the same speed.

Scrummy

[TurnipEaterDown]

300 gr bullets in a 44 rifle, w/ 18-20" barrel will easily do 1600 fps. W296/H110, or Accurate #9/WC820. I would think accurate 11FS & Alliant PP300 would do the same. Multiple powders here actually share the same manufacturing specification.
If you want it a little slower, try Alliant 2400 or IMR/H4227. These can be downloaded to a greater degree than W296/H110 & their ball powder ilk.

I sold off a 1894 Marlin 44 Mag many years ago that would put 3 shots of 240 Nosler SP over 24.4 gr W296 in 3/4" @ 100 yd, and 1 1/2" at 200 yd. Replicated many times, so not a fluke. Used to put pieces of clay pigeons on the 200 yd berm and use for reactive targets. Fun gun, sorry now I sold it. Shot it a lot for about 5 years. Last thing I did w/ it was shoot 3 WT deer all in a matter of seconds. Came in in a line, shot the first once, second once on run, third twice on run. 1st Drop on spot, 2nd run drop, 3rd run further drop.
It had a microgroove bore w/ more circumferential tooling marks than I ever saw in a gun, and copper fouled badly, but shot everything well including the 310 LEE GC, quenched WW, sized 0.430". With the stock design I found felt recoil worse than the sporterized 03 Springfield w/ steel buttplate and 150s at 3000 fps though.

[racepres]

I've used H110 in full power 44 mag loads. I've got some of the Lee 310 grains to load up.
If we are talking Full Power loadings... yup H-110 and I am having good luck with AA1680

[Scrumbag]

For full power stuff I have had better luck with Viht N110 and N105 but that could just be my reloading technique and set up

[TurnipEaterDown]

If we are talking Full Power loadings... yup H-110 and I am having good luck with AA1680

I found 1680 (WW1680, WC1680, AA1680, tried all 3) to disappoint in the 44 Rem Mag in terms of velocity. It needs a larger case, like the 445 to work.
I tried this powder when I heard that JD Jones used it in 44, but again, I found in lagging by 150 fps ish and very very compressed to get there.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'd use the VV N-110
(I've used it for 41 Mag)

They have a load for 300gr. jacketed
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=47

[Scrumbag]

Thanks, just wonder if N110 will be a bit high pressure for cast and no gas check

[longbow]

I can't add a lot to this conversation except to say that I am surprised no-one has mentioned the slow 1:38" twist in the Marlin microgroove barrels. Not sure if the OP has a Marlin with slow twist or not.

In my experience, I could not get 300 gr. cast or jacketed boolits to stabilize past about 75 yards. I have a 1980's vintage Marlin 1894 with typical fat bore requiring 0.433"+ diameter cast boolits. I made a paper patch mould for 300 gr. TC boolits and loaded over a max. charge of H110 and got pretty good accuracy at 50 yards but by 100 yards the boolits were keyholing! I tried different charges (can't download H110 much) and different powders with no improvement so bought some "J" bullets in 300 gr. and got exactly the same results.

I have been told that a WFN driven at top end velocity from 1:38" rifling will work and Ranch Dog says his 300 gr. design is stable out to past 200 yards but I did not manage any sort of decent accuracy to 100 yards with boolit weight over 275 gr.

If the OP's gun has a faster twist then not likely an issue. Best to slug the bore though as SAAMI spec is larger groove diameter than for handgun. That was another issue I had with factory moulds... my Lyman moulds cast to 0.429"/0.430" so undersize for my 0.4315" groove diameter resulting in leading. I now load 0.433"+ diameter cast boolits.

I'll add that most of my moulds are PB and I usually load to jacketed specs so fairly hot. I get just a bit of gas cutting at top end loads just at the bottom driving band but accuracy is good. A gas check design would be better for higher pressure loads but if you are keeping them tame probably not necessary.

Longbow

[Scrumbag]

I can't add a lot to this conversation except to say that I am surprised no-one has mentioned the slow 1:38" twist in the Marlin microgroove barrels. Not sure if the OP has a Marlin with slow twist or not.

In my experience, I could not get 300 gr. cast or jacketed boolits to stabilize past about 75 yards. I have a 1980's vintage Marlin 1894 with typical fat bore requiring 0.433"+ diameter cast boolits. I made a paper patch mould for 300 gr. TC boolits and loaded over a max. charge of H110 and got pretty good accuracy at 50 yards but by 100 yards the boolits were keyholing! I tried different charges (can't download H110 much) and different powders with no improvement so bought some "J" bullets in 300 gr. and got exactly the same results.

I have been told that a WFN driven at top end velocity from 1:38" rifling will work and Ranch Dog says his 300 gr. design is stable out to past 200 yards but I did not manage any sort of decent accuracy to 100 yards with boolit weight over 275 gr.

If the OP's gun has a faster twist then not likely an issue. Best to slug the bore though as SAAMI spec is larger groove diameter than for handgun. That was another issue I had with factory moulds... my Lyman moulds cast to 0.429"/0.430" so undersize for my 0.4315" groove diameter resulting in leading. I now load 0.433"+ diameter cast boolits.

I'll add that most of my moulds are PB and I usually load to jacketed specs so fairly hot. I get just a bit of gas cutting at top end loads just at the bottom driving band but accuracy is good. A gas check design would be better for higher pressure loads but if you are keeping them tame probably not necessary.

Longbow

Hi Longbow, it’s a 20” barrel 1:20 Chiappa so should be fine

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hi folks,

I'm looking for a load out of my 20" lever action with a 300gr cast bullets doing 1,200 - 1,300 fps

The bullets are cast truncated cone, no gas check and with BHN 15.4, rated 19,100 PSI by the maker.

Powders I have are Unique, 2400, H110, Lil'gun, Viht N105 and N110.

There are what I think are some promising loads in the Lyman manual but they only quote a 300gr bullet in pistol length barrels.

For this I'm not worried about single loading and I have some 44 special cases I could also use if there is data that would work there.

Scrummy


Thanks, just wonder if N110 will be a bit high pressure for cast and no gas check

While you don't state the alloy composition, I think the maker is conservative with their PSI rating for a BHN of 15.4
theoretically, COWW (BHN 12-13) is good up to 25Kpsi.
>>> "Hardball" alloy 92-6-2 (BHN about 16) is good up to 35Kpsi (typically used in Magnum handgun & Rifle loads to 2,000 fps)

It's interesting timing you responded this week. a couple weeks ago, a conversation on another forum had me searching and ordering a vintage Vihtavuori reloading manual (1st ed. from 1994). I have it right here, hext to my computer. They list pressures with their 44 mag loads. Starting load of N110 (for a 300gr jacketed bullet) is 17.4 gr 1162fps (in 7" barrel) 25.4Kpsi.
Max load of N110 (same bullet) 19.3 gr 1290fps 36.5Kpsi.

Myself, I wouldn't worry about working up a N110 load (to near max) using a 300gr plain base bullet, cast with a "HardBall" alloy (which is the typical alloy used by American Commercial cast bullet companies).

Good Luck with your Chiappa ...a fine rifle

[Scrumbag]

While you don't state the alloy composition, I think the maker is conservative with their PSI rating for a BHN of 15.4
theoretically, COWW (BHN 12-13) is good up to 25Kpsi.
>>> "Hardball" alloy 92-6-2 (BHN about 16) is good up to 35Kpsi (typically used in Magnum handgun & Rifle loads to 2,000 fps)

It's interesting timing you responded this week. a couple weeks ago, a conversation on another forum had me searching and ordering a vintage Vihtavuori reloading manual (1st ed. from 1994). I have it right here, hext to my computer. They list pressures with their 44 mag loads. Starting load of N110 (for a 300gr jacketed bullet) is 17.4 gr 1162fps (in 7" barrel) 25.4Kpsi.
Max load of N110 (same bullet) 19.3 gr 1290fps 36.5Kpsi.

Myself, I wouldn't worry about working up a N110 load (to near max) using a 300gr plain base bullet, cast with a "HardBall" alloy (which is the typical alloy used by American Commercial cast bullet companies).

Good Luck with your Chiappa ...a fine rifle

Thank you for the thoughtful post. The issue is, I'm not in the US, I'm in the UK so not sure what difference that would make.

Scrummy

[Pereira]

Now, I haven't a clue as to the velocity. This was a little test I did earlier this year, actually the rear sight incert had fallen out. So probably why so high, but it was a decent group. I finally replaced the sight but haven't played with it any more since.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231209/2b11c4315c0990f9e98d0d60127a6640.jpg

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[Scrumbag]

Now, I haven't a clue as to the velocity. This was a little test I did earlier this year, actually the rear sight incert had fallen out. So probably why so high, but it was a decent group. I finally replaced the sight but haven't played with it any more since.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231209/2b11c4315c0990f9e98d0d60127a6640.jpg

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

That group will certainly do most things you might want it to!

[Pereira]

That group will certainly do most things you might want it to!

Thank you.

RP

Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thank you for the thoughtful post. The issue is, I'm not in the US, I'm in the UK so not sure what difference that would make.

Scrummy
I seen that you are from the UK. That's why I tried to be as detailed as possible, as I know some things in the UK are different. You can convert any differences as necessary...or just take my post with a grain of salt.
Good Luck.

[Scrumbag]

I seen that you are from the UK. That's why I tried to be as detailed as possible, as I know some things in the UK are different. You can convert any differences as necessary...or just take my post with a grain of salt.
Good Luck.

Thanks. Will be an interesting project, I'm sure

[longbow]

Yes, with 1:20" twist you should be good with the 300 gr. heavies! I'd still recommend that you slug the bore. Not sure what specs Chiappa uses for land and groove diameter but the SAAMI spec for rifles is different than for handguns so "standard" 0.729"/0.730" bullets are too small and will lead.

if you are looking to download some then H110 is not a good powder. 2400 should be more flexible. I like IMR4227 for my .44 mag. Marlin. Unique will likely be fast for a 300 gr. bullet and may not give you the velocity you want. I can't comment on the other powders.

Good luck!

Longbow

[Pirate69]

I can't add a lot to this conversation except to say that I am surprised no-one has mentioned the slow 1:38" twist in the Marlin microgroove barrels. Not sure if the OP has a Marlin with slow twist or not.

In my experience, I could not get 300 gr. cast or jacketed boolits to stabilize past about 75 yards. I have a 1980's vintage Marlin 1894 with typical fat bore requiring 0.433"+ diameter cast boolits. I made a paper patch mould for 300 gr. TC boolits and loaded over a max. charge of H110 and got pretty good accuracy at 50 yards but by 100 yards the boolits were keyholing! I tried different charges (can't download H110 much) and different powders with no improvement so bought some "J" bullets in 300 gr. and got exactly the same results.

I have been told that a WFN driven at top end velocity from 1:38" rifling will work and Ranch Dog says his 300 gr. design is stable out to past 200 yards but I did not manage any sort of decent accuracy to 100 yards with boolit weight over 275 gr.

If the OP's gun has a faster twist then not likely an issue. Best to slug the bore though as SAAMI spec is larger groove diameter than for handgun. That was another issue I had with factory moulds... my Lyman moulds cast to 0.429"/0.430" so undersize for my 0.4315" groove diameter resulting in leading. I now load 0.433"+ diameter cast boolits.

I'll add that most of my moulds are PB and I usually load to jacketed specs so fairly hot. I get just a bit of gas cutting at top end loads just at the bottom driving band but accuracy is good. A gas check design would be better for higher pressure loads but if you are keeping them tame probably not necessary.

Longbow

This may be of some benefit, or it may not. I have the Lee C430-310-RF mold and it actually drops +or - 310 grains; as weighed after powder coating. I shoot them in an old Marlin 1894 (1:38" rifling) using 20.5 grains of H110. If you believe QuickLoad, this should yield about 1,400 fps at about 24,000 psi chamber pressure from the 18" barrel.

I attached this comment to Longbow's post because I see the same performance at distance. At 75 yards, I get pretty good accuracy and maybe you can see a little bit of yaw on the target paper. At 100 yards, you can definitely see yawing, but they are not keyholing yet. Still grouping fairly well. No data beyond 100 yards.

[JesterGrin_1]

This may be of some benefit, or it may not. I have the Lee C430-310-RF mold and it actually drops +or - 310 grains; as weighed after powder coating. I shoot them in an old Marlin 1894 (1:38" rifling) using 20.5 grains of H110. If you believe QuickLoad, this should yield about 1,400 fps at about 24,000 psi chamber pressure from the 18" barrel.

I attached this comment to Longbow's post because I see the same performance at distance. At 75 yards, I get pretty good accuracy and maybe you can see a little bit of yaw on the target paper. At 100 yards, you can definitely see yawing, but they are not keyholing yet. Still grouping fairly well. No data beyond 100 yards.

I agree with the load data with one exception to use a standard large pistol primer instead of a magnum primer with either H-110 or preferably W 296 unless in below freezing weather.

[Hickory]

I believe the new Marlin 1894 44 magnums will have a 1-20 twist.

[PAndy]

Are you familiar with gmdr levergun performance web site? Loads for your situation there.

[Bazoo]

Are you familiar with gmdr levergun performance web site? Loads for your situation there. I wasn't, that's interesting, thanks!

[longbow]

Yes, I have been told by Ranch Dog that his 300 gr. boolits stsay stable out to something like 300 yards from 1"38" tweist if pushed to max velocity.

Another fellow rold me that the WFN's will also stay stable from the 1:38" twist if pushed hard. I was unable to get stability past 100 yard using any 300 gr. boolits I had or "J" bullets but in fairness they were not WFN style.

Regardless the OP has 1:20" twist so not an issue for him.

Longbow