How often did our ancestors clean their guns after using BP

[HWooldridge]

I realize there is no way to know - and just like today, maintenance is up to the individual user, but I find it difficult to believe everyone did a hot water wash and oiling at the end of every day, after firing a shot. If a hunter killed a deer and immediately reloaded his muzzleloader, he probably would have hesitated to waste the charge that same night, especially if hostiles were in the vicinity.

Hickok supposedly fired his ‘51 Navy’s every day - did he pull them apart, wash out all the residue then wait for everything to dry before oiling and reloading? If so, he would have been defenseless for a fairly long time.

Cartridge ammo made the unloading easier - both pistols and long guns - but the other variables remain. A couple of guys are out in the bush for several weeks and killing game every day, that needs to be cleaned and butchered. The horses come first, then the meat processing - by the time the day is over, it’s a chore to just crawl into a bedroll. Did the guns go a week without cleaning?

Most of us are not relying on our BP guns for protection so we have the luxury of taking our time, but I wonder if the oldtimers observed the same practices - or were their lubes better at protecting the bores for a few days?

I ask this because I have a Colt 44-40 SAA from 1904 that is tight mechanically but the bore and the exterior have quite a bit of pitting - the rifling is also worn and faint. Makes me think the old girl may have been shot and not cleaned very often.

I sometimes test my homemade BP on a steel welding table inside my shop, and if it’s damp weather, there will be raging red rust forming within 24 hours. Of course, there is no lube on the plate - just powder residue, but I’d hate to see a rifle bore in the same condition.

[deces]

That is a good question, I know solvents have changed with time and not for the better.

[M-Tecs]

Hickok had more than one 51 Navy and he had other firearms so if he felt there was a threat, I am sure he had a loaded firearm handy.

I have been wondering the same thing with a slight twist of how the mountain men and those that were very remote for extended time periods dealt with this practically in subzero temperatures.

Black Powder is more hygroscopic than corrosive. Pyrodex is truly corrosive. I know of three rifles that weren't cleaned for a week after firing Pyrodex and the barrels were toast. On the flip side I have seen guns fired with BP that weren't cleaned for extended time periods with no or little damage.

Lots of the cowboy shooters shooting BP do very minimal cleaning (if any) for days on end. Spraying with Ballistol and wiping the big chunks off is it. The cowboy lever guns shooters tend to only do a complete teardown once or twice a season.

I am sure there are detailed accounts of the cleaning methods of the time in some of the old journals but I am not aware of them. My guess is they used sperm whale oil or rendered animal fat like some use Ballistol today.

[HamGunner]

I have no idea as I have not read anything specifically related to how gun care was carried out in the past BP days. Looking at old BP guns though, it does appear that there were a whole lot that were rode hard and put away wet more than just a time or two.

Myself, I doubt that most really tore the weapons down and done a hot water and soap job on them right away if they were out and about or tied up with other important duties or chores. I would think though that a good decent quick swabbing and then a quick greasing/oiling of the bores and cylinders at the end of the day would likely make do for preventing corrosion of the vital parts if it was inconvenient to really tear down and deep clean a weapon for a while.

I have shot my 51's and a .32 Squirrel rifle a lot the last couple of years, especially after I started making my own caps and BP. I do completely dismantle and deep clean them after my day is done and I have settled in for the evening. After doing it a good many times, it still takes me at least an hour to clean a revolver and the rifle, as I do take care to clean everything well.

Although, I think I could easily swab and oil the bores and cylinders and wipe off the outside deposits enough to prevent corrosion to most of the important parts, in likely 5 min. I imagine that would be good enough to get by with if real cleaning was very inconvenient or there was just not time to really do it right.

[GregLaROCHE]

During wartime, soldiers used to piss in their barrels, if no water was available to clean out the fouling, so they could keep shooting.

[indian joe]

Dont forget that those old guns suffered a lifetime of corrosive primers - likely did as much damage or more than the powder residue.

[Bent Ramrod]

Not nearly often enough, if the relics I find are any indication.

[dondiego]

They most likely didn't use hot water to clean with. Any water available would work.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Not very well, and not very often would be my guess. Thousands upon thousands of weapons were made for use in the Civil War, and how many survive to today? And how many of those are in good condition?

DG

[rintinglen]

Bear in mind the when cartridge firearms came around, the "Old fashioned" percussion guns of the civil war became much less desirable and for many years, they were simply wall hangers, or just junk. It is not surprising that many were recycled or scrapped, especially when time and circumstance did not allow for cleaning and the bores were allowed to rust.

Now, a method of cleaning used in the Civil War was to put a small piece of leather over the nipple and hold it in place with the hammer, then pour left over coffee or hot water into the barrel, let it set for a few moments, then holding a thumb over the muzzle, shake the weapon back and forth, drain it and then do again. Swab the bore with a dry patch, then an oily patch, and reload. It was supposed to work pretty well. I would expect that the mountain men and settlers would do something similar.

[Adam Helmer]

I have read much history of the Mountain Man era circa 1820-1835, more or less. Mostly the folks I read about did use water to flush out the bore, when they had time. The Hawken brothers in St. Louis did a brisk business of "Freshening" (recutting rifleling) in mountain mens' Hawken rifles annually. The rebore job resulted in a shiny, and Larger bore for the next season. A new bullet mould was provided and all was well.

My last visit to my local gun shop and viewing the used muzzeloader gun rack disclosed that many folks still do not properly care for blackpowder arms. Just saying times have not changed much....

Adam

[megasupermagnum]

There are military manuals that detail how they did it. They were as strict, likely more strict about clean firearms than they are today. Every military did it differently, but the big ones (British, French, Spanish, etc.) had written standards.

Civilians, same as today did whatever they pleased. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any written instructions. Even journals at best only briefly mentioned cleaning, at least I've not seen it.

I've never read about anyone, military or civilian using anything but water. Sometimes warm, sometimes not. Sometimes with soap, mostly nothing. Lube was anything and everything from bear grease to olive oil to whale oil to beeswax.

The only real difference I've found that they didn't seem to do is clean with patches. I've never seen a pre civil war muzzleloader patch jag. Instead they seemed to universally use worms for loose material, presumably flax tow, but any loose material works. I've tried it, and I don't find much difference in cleaning, it's just another way to do the same thing.

[TNsailorman]

I would guess that it was sorta like today. Some cleaned their guns after each use and took very good care of them. Others were too lazy, tired or did not have time and neglected them with the resulting damage. In the War of Northern Invasion, most of the riflemen were on the move much of the time especailly after a battle. Either advancing or retreating. My granfather still used a muzzleloader when he was young because it was cheaper than cartridge rifles and because he could shoot it much cheaper than buying cartridges which were expensive in his time. Flints were readily available and black powder too and both were fairly cheap compared to loaded ammo. He kept his muzzleloader hung over the kitchen door--at least that is what he and my great grandmother told me. james

[JoeJames]

" My granfather still used a muzzleloader when he was young because it was cheaper than cartridge rifles and because he could shoot it much cheaper than buying cartridges which were expensive in his time. Flints were readily available and black powder too and both were fairly cheap compared to loaded ammo. He kept his muzzleloader hung over the kitchen door--at least that is what he and my great grandmother told me."

Things were tough in the Ozarks too, my dad's cousins used the family Plains Rifle - 42 caliber, to squirrel hunt with until they were drafted in WW2.

Cousin had a gun shop/pawnshop. He said a very high percentage of muzzle loaders he bought or traded for were still loaded. His standard practice was to run a cleaning rod down it to see where it bottomed out. Usually it came up short. People don't change much; I expect they'd clean with hot water and then oil it. When dried they'd load it again until ...

[HWooldridge]

The act of reloading a muzzleloader after a shot will help push some of the junk back down the bore - but the cartridge guns don't have that automatic assistance. My pet theory is that people might have run a lubed patch on top of the fouling, in an attempt at waterproofing until such time as a more thorough cleaning opportunity was possible. I have personally run a patch with straight Ballistol through a fouled barrel on overnight hunting trips that lasted 3-4 days and the bores didn't seem any worse for wear. Of course, I did perform a full cleaning routine after getting back home.

[Hannibal]

I'd guess that bore degradation was just something accepted as normal and a new rifle was a given every so often. How often the rifle was replaced would depend on the habits of the user and available resources. ($)

I'd further venture to guess that it wasn't recorded because no one ever thought it would be of interest. Just another thing to deal with living in that time and those conditions.

[405grain]

"the War of Northern Invasion"
Kind sir: I believe the proper term is "the War of Northern Aggression".

Signed, The descendant of many members of the 53rd North Carolina

Though there's extensive evidence to the contrary, I would like to believe that mountain men took care of their longarms as if their lives depended on it.

[JoeJames]

[QUOTE=405grain;5534665]"the War of Northern Invasion"
Kind sir: I believe the proper term is "the War of Northern Aggression".

Signed, The descendant of many members of the 53rd North Carolina


Captain Phillips Battery of Tennessee Artillery and 3rd Confederate Cavalry reporting in. War of Northern Aggression is the proper phrase. My great grandfather in the 3rd Cavalry had great pleasure in acquiring two 36 Caliber Navy Colts from a Northern Aggressor.

[gunther]

Back in the 1980's a friend, who was a better shot than nearly all of us, left a custom flinter and a blued Ruger Old Army in his car trunk all summer. Trunk gasket leaked. A mutual friend got the cleanup job on the flinter, and I got handed the Old Army. They had both been to a shooting match before they hit the trunk, uncleaned. The flinter cleaned up nice. Took a while for the stock to come back to normal. Kept on shooting lights out. The Old Army suffered the loss of the bolt spring. The rest of it was as good as new. Wish I had known at the time that Bill Large had line bored it for over-the-log matches, and talked buddy out of it. I have seen one other bolt spring rust out in a gun cleaned regularly but not disassembled. The fellow who built my rifle remarked that most damage was done by cleaning too much. He told me to shoot it every day or two and it would be fine. I didn't have the faith to try it. Or the time to shoot every day or two.

[indian joe]

I'd guess that bore degradation was just something accepted as normal and a new rifle was a given every so often. How often the rifle was replaced would depend on the habits of the user and available resources. ($)

I'd further venture to guess that it wasn't recorded because no one ever thought it would be of interest. Just another thing to deal with living in that time and those conditions.

They proly did what some of us would do with a wore out barrel
cut an inch off the end to get rid of the ramrod wear, reset the front sight and go round again
if that wouldnt do it, fresh out the rifling one or two calibres, recut the mold to suit.
Easy with a frontloader - not so easy with the new fangled catridge guns

[Hannibal]

They proly did what some of us would do with a wore out barrel
cut an inch off the end to get rid of the ramrod wear, reset the front sight and go round again
if that wouldnt do it, fresh out the rifling one or two calibres, recut the mold to suit.
Easy with a frontloader - not so easy with the new fangled catridge guns

Very possible, but I doubt trappers and frontiersmen had access to such knowledge or tools, so a stop at the blacksmith/gunmaker shop was likely necessary.

I don't know this to be fact, but it seems reasonable to me. I've met a bunch of farmers over the years who had a really hard time maintaining equipment. Usually got parked in the fence row and replaced when small farms were abundant.

Totally different situation now in both circumstances.

[Adam Helmer]

I believe all muzzleloader shooters on the frontier KNEW their fired guns needed cleaning, BUT if they only had ONE, they would load up and be armed.

Hawken Brothers "Freshed Out" MANY Mountain Mens' guns for good reason. Indians, grizzle bears, etc., never worried about being shot with rusty bored guns. LOL.
Adam

[JSnover]

A Civil War buff once told me how they did it, or at least how he was told they did it.
Dismount the barrel and dunk it muzzle first into a barrel of water (assuming there is a water barrel nearby).
Hold your thumb over the nipple and lift the barrel, remove your thumb and let the water drain out. Repeat several times.
Swab the barrel with fresh patches until they come out dry (at this point I hope they used an oiled patch but I can't remember).
Reassemble the rifle and snap at least one cap to clear and dry the nipple.

[megasupermagnum]

A Civil War buff once told me how they did it, or at least how he was told they did it.
Dismount the barrel and dunk it muzzle first into a barrel of water (assuming there is a water barrel nearby).
Hold your thumb over the nipple and lift the barrel, remove your thumb and let the water drain out. Repeat several times.
Swab the barrel with fresh patches until they come out dry (at this point I hope they used an oiled patch but I can't remember).
Reassemble the rifle and snap at least one cap to clear and dry the nipple.

That sounds correct. I've seen something very similar in a civil ware era military manual. If I'm not mistaken the barrel was supposed to be warm water. Obviously they did what they had to make due. Lube could always be a million different things. I've never seen a standard lube for muzzleloaders.

[Adam Helmer]

A Civil War buff once told me how they did it, or at least how he was told they did it.
Dismount the barrel and dunk it muzzle first into a barrel of water (assuming there is a water barrel nearby).
Hold your thumb over the nipple and lift the barrel, remove your thumb and let the water drain out. Repeat several times.
Swab the barrel with fresh patches until they come out dry (at this point I hope they used an oiled patch but I can't remember).
Reassemble the rifle and snap at least one cap to clear and dry the nipple.

JSnover,
I think you got it mostly right. If you meant by "dismount the barrel", removing it from the stock, that is not per the Old Army Manual for the Civil War.
The cleaning regimen I read about is:
Be sure the rifle is unloaded. Block the nipple with a patch held in place by the hammer. With the arm upright, pour a gill, or two, of water down the bore (hot water was preferable), place the thumb over the muzzle and alternate up and down a few times and drain the water onto the ground. Run a wet patch or two down the bore followed by dry patches. "Oil according to regulations."
I hope this helps.

Note: removing the barrel from the arm was "discouraged" because the tang screw tension affected accuracy and sight regulation.

Adam
AKA Corporal Brasso, Company E, 42nd Regiment. (The (PA) Bucktails)

[JSnover]

JSnover,
I think you got it mostly right. If you meant by "dismount the barrel", removing it from the stock, that is not per the Old Army Manual for the Civil War.
The cleaning regimen I read about is:
Be sure the rifle is unloaded. Block the nipple with a patch held in place by the hammer. With the arm upright, pour a gill, or two, of water down the bore (hot water was preferable), place the thumb over the muzzle and alternate up and down a few times and drain the water onto the ground. Run a wet patch or two down the bore followed by dry patches. "Oil according to regulations."
I hope this helps.

Note: removing the barrel from the arm was "discouraged" because the tang screw tension affected accuracy and sight regulation.

Adam
AKA Corporal Brasso, Company E, 42nd Regiment. (The (PA) Bucktails)

Thanks.

[OverMax]

I have a couple of old Winchesters made in the late 19th century. I don't thing either's barrel were swabbed clean by their owners. Very corroded. Strange thing after a good cleaning and some modern chemicals both today shoot pleasingly accurate.

[john.k]

I recall as a kid a friends father had a 92 Winchester....they used to clean the bore with kerosine swabbed in the bore with a patch on a hooked wire.......never oiled that Im aware of .

[Rapier]

I believe everything I see in the movies.

More-so, the stupidity I see daily from the abuse of modern gun owners that never clean a gun, ever. Then they bring them to me when they cease to even function, due to neglect. A Classic: I had a TC Hawken 50 brought in, that was fired several times, never cleaned, left loaded. Then was brought in 20 years later, by the new SIL that was raised to clean his guns after every use, but realized he was looking at something beyond his knowledge.
After two months it was returned, looking like new. The list of repair is long. At least read the historical books, the real history, not some crocked up Jollywood crud.

[Swineherd]

Firing a corrosive primer after cleaning may be good for keeping the weapon ready for use, but its certainly not good for the nipple or the bore.

[indian joe]

I realize there is no way to know - and just like today, maintenance is up to the individual user, but I find it difficult to believe everyone did a hot water wash and oiling at the end of every day, after firing a shot. If a hunter killed a deer and immediately reloaded his muzzleloader, he probably would have hesitated to waste the charge that same night, especially if hostiles were in the vicinity.

Hickok supposedly fired his ‘51 Navy’s every day - did he pull them apart, wash out all the residue then wait for everything to dry before oiling and reloading? If so, he would have been defenseless for a fairly long time.

Cartridge ammo made the unloading easier - both pistols and long guns - but the other variables remain. A couple of guys are out in the bush for several weeks and killing game every day, that needs to be cleaned and butchered. The horses come first, then the meat processing - by the time the day is over, it’s a chore to just crawl into a bedroll. Did the guns go a week without cleaning?

Most of us are not relying on our BP guns for protection so we have the luxury of taking our time, but I wonder if the oldtimers observed the same practices - or were their lubes better at protecting the bores for a few days?

I ask this because I have a Colt 44-40 SAA from 1904 that is tight mechanically but the bore and the exterior have quite a bit of pitting - the rifling is also worn and faint. Makes me think the old girl may have been shot and not cleaned very often.

I sometimes test my homemade BP on a steel welding table inside my shop, and if it’s damp weather, there will be raging red rust forming within 24 hours. Of course, there is no lube on the plate - just powder residue, but I’d hate to see a rifle bore in the same condition.

back to Hickock
If you were hanging out in the dry western environment (he was according to hollywood?) and you shot every day - you would only need to clean enough to keep things functional - where I live is about like western Nebraska (some of the time) - can shoot a smokeypole and put it aside uncleaned for a week or so most of the year without incident - pistols with a more greasy lube in the barrel - maybe a couple more days. Its the leaving that gets them! ....one week turns into two then a month and you do got a problem - even then most barrels will clean up well enough that most shooters wouldnt know the difference till they looked down it. Damage at the crown is what really kills em - I see blokes diligently cleaning their muzzleloader without a bore protector on the rod and I shudder - same same with those snake things - no way can you use those with out rubbing on the rifling at the muzzle - dont matter how careful you are that is gonna accellerate wear.

[trapper9260]

When I brought a civil war musket 58 cal to a friend of my that is a gunsmith ,my dad had found many years ago that was thrown out on the side walk trash and had missing parts on it . He checks the bore and still had rifling in it . he said when he took the breach plug out it was still loaded and was caked in the gun and had a hard time to clean it out and what he found was at the breech that part of the rifling was worn out and gone and that was about 1 1/2" at the bottom of the barrel. the rest was still good . He found the parts for it and fixed it up and shoots just fine. He said it shows it was used alot in its time . Had to replace the nipple also. It is a 1864 on the plate , but was told it was really a 1861 Bridesburg . made in Bridesburg,PA. off set of the Springfield 58 cal, of its time.

[HWooldridge]

back to Hickock
If you were hanging out in the dry western environment (he was according to hollywood?) and you shot every day - you would only need to clean enough to keep things functional - where I live is about like western Nebraska (some of the time) - can shoot a smokeypole and put it aside uncleaned for a week or so most of the year without incident - pistols with a more greasy lube in the barrel - maybe a couple more days. Its the leaving that gets them! ....one week turns into two then a month and you do got a problem - even then most barrels will clean up well enough that most shooters wouldnt know the difference till they looked down it. Damage at the crown is what really kills em - I see blokes diligently cleaning their muzzleloader without a bore protector on the rod and I shudder - same same with those snake things - no way can you use those with out rubbing on the rifling at the muzzle - dont matter how careful you are that is gonna accellerate wear.

That's kind of what I'm thinking, Joe. People were smart enough to realize from observation what effect the weather had on their weapons - and there were no central HVAC systems installed anywhere. A damp cabin in Missouri during a few days of rain is a very different environment from a hotel room in Arizona.

People who made their living and/or banked their survival on fully functional weapons probably took the time to do what was necessary. Outlaws may have only cleaned their pieces when they had a spare moment while holed up somewhere - and the average farmer might not have cleaned his shotgun but once every month or two.

Both my grandfather and great uncle (grandma's brother) grew up in the early 1900's with black powder cartridges as an option for most of their shooting needs, and neither man liked it. They complained it was dirty, smelly, etc. so they always picked smokeless if they could get it - but my uncle had an old .38 rimfire rifle which only shot BP ammo, so I saw him clean it right after shooting - regardless of whether it was just one shot. He finally gave away the rifle with the remaining cartridges to a neighbor, although I don't know if the cleaning routine was a reason.

As we have already said here, cleaning habits were based on whatever time the individual person was willing to spend on the task.

[Jungle Dave]

The only shotguns I use for hunting or anything else are old hammer doubles. Sometimes I think people preferred them because they are so easy and fast to clean. I finish hunting for the day, pop the forend off, take the barrels off and head straight to the water hose in the back yard. Then swab them out and run a swab with Rem-oil down the bore and all is well. 5 minutes tops, and all done. The breech faces get a few wipes with the Rem-oil, but they don't collect much residue. As far as muzzleloaders, it's a time-consuming process for me. Especially with my Colt Dragoon. It's a pain, especially in the humid climate I'm in, and I personally do not see how anyone back then managed to do it perfectly every time, especially if some sort of 'life' situation called them to other things while in the process.

[charlie b]

Don't know about the old days.

I never had any problem with mine. Small bucket of water, usually a little dish soap. If it was the C&B revolver then just disassemble and toss everything in there except the grips. Stir it up a bit. Run a swab through the cylinder bores and barrel. Pick everything out, dry and oil it. Assemble and done. Same with sidelocks, except I didn't disassemble the lock itself.

Oil could be just about anything.

I can't see why the old timers would not do the same after using one. It was an expensive piece of kit for them and something they frequently used to survive.