Is there a way to make a 44 mag lever gun a 150 to 200 yd hunting rifle?

[chutestrate]

I'm looking for a straight wall rifle cartridge for Pa hunting, and just weighing out all my options. I took a deer this year with my 357, and it did well. I am kicking around the 350 legend, 360 buckhammer, and maybe the 44 mag. I've been going through all my manuals, and I'm pretty certain I could take the 44 out to 125 yd, but not certain that the drop is good for beyond that distance. Has anyone come up with a reloading combination that could make that possible?

[freakonaleash]

I have shot all my deer at 50 yards or less except for one. In fact I shot my last one at 30 yards with a cap and ball pistol. I'd suggest you get closer to your deer ot get a 45-70.

[GregLaROCHE]

You are dreaming of a 444.

[chutestrate]

I figured, but thought I'd at least toss the question out for opinions. Thank you

[Shawlerbrook]

Hornady Leverevelution ammo ?

[elmacgyver0]

Ladder sight?

[chutestrate]

From my experience and looking at charts if I adjusted my point of aim I could hit theoretically hit targets at 200 yds. the drop past 125 yds starts to enter into the double digits which is far more than I'm comfortable with. I just installed Sierra's ballistic software so I'll be playing with different bullet weights and types, but I think I'm SOL. I've already invested in 44 mag revolvers so was trying to stick to that caliber without wanting to gear up for another reloading set up. There are reloaders with far more experience than myself and thought I pick the collective brain trust for anything I haven't considered.

[huntinlever]

I don't know the drop, but wouldn't you have an issue with enough kinetic energy with the .44, at those distances?

[Winger Ed.]

The drop can be figured out like with anything else.
However;
Getting out that far, I'm more comfortable with a .308 or .30-06.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I don't know the drop, but wouldn't you have an issue with enough kinetic energy with the .44, at those distances?


You would not.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Are you sure you are using rifle velocities? Using Hornady’s calculator with their 240 XTP at 1800fps, 160 yard zero has you 4 inches high at 100 and 7 inches low at 200. Certainly not impossible, bowhunters work harder than that, but you would need to practice, range your shot if possible, and not forget your dope when a 12 pt walks out. Wind could be a real issue. Back that down to 150 and things get a lot easier. Beauty of the 44mag is that loading them is so easy, you don’t mind burning a pile of them practicing.

[chutestrate]

Thank you Silver Creek. I was unaware of that app. I have been using Hodgdon's web data primarily. I will definitely check that out.

[NSB]

Why are you looking at a straight wall cartridge for Pennsylvania? They have no restrictions on any centerfire for their deer season. Use whatever you want. I’ve been using a bunch of different .357max single shot rifles for several years now (not that I have to use a straight wall either) and I’ve shot deer out to 200 yards with no problems. FWIW, kinetic energy has little or no effect on killing deer. A bad shot is a bad shot. Put one in the boiler room is all that’s necessary.

[chutestrate]

They do around philly.

[shooter bob]

And Allegheny co .

[NSB]

It’s a big state, hunt somewhere else. Either way, you don’t need a 44mag to kill a deer (although I’ve killed many of them with a 44mag handgun). I’ve killed deer out to 168 yards with a 357mag handgun. Get a laser and know your bullet drop. Being able to shoot at a known distance off of a bench doesn’t make you a capable hunter. If you don’t know your ballistics you’re not doing due diligence in preparing to shoot a big game animal. If your mind’s set on a lever gun, get the 350 Legend. It’s more than adequate and will recoil a lot less than the 44mag. Surprisingly, the 44mag is more unpleasant to shoot in a rifle than it is in a handgun. The Legend is flatter shooting also.

[Hannibal]

The knives and stakes are gonna come out but it needs to be said so here goes.

Before you decide on anything, take your rifle out somewhere and shoot some groups at 150 and 200 yards and see what you get. Don't 'cherry pick' them and shoot at least 10 groups of 5 shots.

Then decide if what you're proposing is ethical given your skill, rifle and load combination. If you've already done this then you already know this answer.

Be safe, above all else.

[chutestrate]

I appreciate all the advice. I haven't picked up a rifle yet. It's something I'd like to do this summer. Just rolling through various options. I do hunt several different areas and can cover with different caliber options. My one area of need is the straight wall cartridge. I won't exclude good areas because of a the game laws...just adapt. Who doesn't like buying a new gun?

[Hannibal]

OK, well buying a 44mag lever gun anticipating to shoot a deer at 200 yards isn't a good plan.

[chutestrate]

Ok, I have to say it...if you read my post you should understand I'm ONLY exploring. Nothing was said about buying a 44, just asking if there were options from more experienced reloaders for getting more distance out of a 44. The other calibers are options as well. Let's see did I mention any...oh yeah the 350 legend, and the 360 buckhammer. I think the consensus is the 44 is lacking at those distances. So again. Thank you for the advice from everyone for the discussion points. For the others..don't worry the 44 mag rifle is not going to fit the bill. sheesh

[Hannibal]

You'd think it was the title of the thread or something. Sorry you didn't like a direct answer. Sheesh.

[rusty marlin]

As been mentioned, .44 leverevolution and practice.
It's really no different than doping a 100 yard target with a .22LR
The other alternative is a small FFP scope with a MIL or MOA doping retical. Again it's just a matter of practice. I can first round hit 8" plates to 500 with my 350 Legend. Not saying I'd shoot a deer at that range, but practice makes perfect.

[Rusty Goose]

Hunting or not, buy the .44 mag lever gun because it's fun!

[FergusonTO35]

.350 bolt gun is probably going to be the most cost effective if that is important to you. If your area is like mine, .350 ammo is way easier to find than any other straight wall cartridge right now.

[GregLaROCHE]

One problem with reaching out that far, is that thenboolit will be slowing way down and be much more affected by cross wind.

[fastdadio]

I live/hunt in a straight wall restricted zone. 6 deer so far with the 350L. No boolits recovered. Terminal meat damage show it to be an excellent choice out to 150yds and farther if you practice with it.

[Teddy (punchie)]

I'm looking for a straight wall rifle cartridge for Pa hunting, and just weighing out all my options. I took a deer this year with my 357, and it did well. I am kicking around the 350 legend, 360 buckhammer, and maybe the 44 mag. I've been going through all my manuals, and I'm pretty certain I could take the 44 out to 125 yd, but not certain that the drop is good for beyond that distance. Has anyone come up with a reloading combination that could make that possible?

Back a few years the 44 loaded up 125 yds is the cut off, your correct. She is running out of steam and dropping too fast. This was a lighter bullet flying as fast as could get a group.

350 legend is going to run into what I found with the 350 Remington Mag. Just about the same trouble get out to the 150 to 200 yds and drop like a rock. That made me a little taking back I thought before I looked into it, thinking any mag would be a good 300 to 400 yds gun. Lucky I saw the light and said gun went too high at auction. They are a open sight gun good to maybe 250 not 400. If you going to get 200 yds. Maybe a 12 gauge loaded with wads to a 20 gauge dia. or smaller . This is something I was kicking around in my mind. Cup in a the shotgun that would leave the bullet to fly. Now can you hit a plate at 200 yds. ??

Back to your ?? I would love to trade spec. and information with you. Sound like we were or are of the same mind set. I normally don't post load data as it can be twisted into a crutch and make a huge problem.
Killing power is what is needed also. Enough to work the bullet and or make a large enough canal to bring down the animal.

Not into deer hunting like I was too many hours at work and just don't care to harvest deer any more. Farm is all fence and cows. Row crops take extra time and equipment. Hard for deer to eat what a cow has already eaten. That said I'm always looking for the time when Beaver Co. will follow the Allegheny Co. Years ago they wanted the whole state to be shotgun and the hunters stopped that dream.

Trouble is the PA Game Commission is all nuts and run by a group of over headed change making people. They have changed so much over the last 30 years and made things worse. They changed things that made this a hunting state they have changed and don't make sense. But that is a whole other mess.

[compass will]

I used to hunt the PA area he talks about. You're lucky to get a 50-yard shot. The new rule is to allow this straight wall rifle as a replacement to shotguns in populated areas. Why did PA come out with the shotgun rules in the first place? It wasn't to make it harder. It was to decrease reciprical damage where someone shoots holes in your home from a long way away. I lived in one of these zones, and opening day sounded like a war zone. Once they switched where I lived in western Chester county to shotgun, it became safer.
I think it's a good thing what they are doing. But I would not expect to make shots further than you could with a shotgun. I would carry my Colt 45 lever gun. They do make a 454 casull version of my lever gun

[NSB]

Nothing like some well established facts to mess up an opinion. Here’s what the 44mag in a lever gun can do ballistically. If you sight it in at 125 yards this is what you get using a Hornady 240g XTP bullet and H110/WW296:
Muzzle velocity 1817 fps, energy at 200 yards 875 ft lbs remaining.
Zero: 125y, drop at 150y is 2.4”, drop at 175y is 6.0”, drop at 200y is 10.0”.
I shot IHMSA big bore silhouette for years and I used a DW 44mag revolver. I could shoot the rams at 200y with monotonous regularity. It’s all about knowing the distance. If you get a range finder it’s not a problem if you can’t estimate distances without one. If you’re hunting out of a stand or blind you should know the distances every time you go to that spot. The muzzle energy at 200 yards will expand the bullet and keep in mind it’s already at .430 when it leaves the barrel. It’s very easy to shoot deer with a 44mag at these distances and kill them very effectively. Go to Hornady’s website for load info or use something like Lyman’s loading manual. Hornady’s website has a simple, easy to use ballistic calculator. Just plug in the info and it will spit out the results. FWIW, the BC of the Hornady 240g XTP is .205.

[JuliettDeltaGolf]

This is gonna bug a lot of people, but I deer hunt with one rifle- a 24" barreled .44-40. My Swiss black powder loads push a 217gr soft lead boolit over 1,325fps, and after thousands of rounds of practice, I'm confident I can put one in the boiler room at 200 yards consistently if I have a decent rest. I am not at all worried about "killing power", as if the shot is in the vitals it will do the job fine. Do I recommend it to others? Only if they're good shots and know their limitations. To be fair, I haven't had a shot opportunity past 100 yards yet, and usually make kills at 75 yards or less due to the terrain I hunt- but this boolit is still moving at nearly 1,000fps at 300 yards- Drop is significant, but the trajectory of this load is nearly identical to a standard .45-70 load, and as long as you have extensive practice and well-regulated sights, bullet drop shouldn't be an issue.

People really lose their minds over slow moving bullets for hunting, but as long as you can think in categories and shoot accurately, they're a lot more capable than most give credit for. What I mean by "thinking in categories" is this: think about bowhunting. Shock isn't a factor, very slow speeds, terrible trajectory, minimal bone-penetrating capability, and extremely short effective range. And yes, I do realize a broadhead is better at bloodletting than a cast boolit, but whatever. Do these extremely limiting factors mean no one should bowhunt? No, but it does mean you need to have LOTS of practice at various ranges, know your limitations, and know the limitations of your equipment. Many slow-moving heavy-ish rifle cartridges (especially pistol-size) are in a category by themselves, just like bowhunting. Load up as hot a load as you're comfortable with that is both accurate and safe in your gun, and practice at the ranges you want to shoot until you can be confident of clean kills- if it takes thousands of rounds and lots of load development. Don't cut any corners, DO NOT take shots on game that you haven't practiced- but don't listen to the unbelievers. Have fun, shoot straight, and kill clean.

[JuliettDeltaGolf]

Nothing like some well established facts to mess up an opinion. Here’s what the 44mag in a lever gun can do ballistically. If you sight it in at 125 yards this is what you get using a Hornady 240g XTP bullet and H110/WW296:
Muzzle velocity 1817 fps, energy at 200 yards 875 ft lbs remaining.
Zero: 125y, drop at 150y is 2.4”, drop at 175y is 6.0”, drop at 200y is 10.0”.
I shot IHMSA big bore silhouette for years and I used a DW 44mag revolver. I could shoot the rams at 200y with monotonous regularity. It’s all about knowing the distance. If you get a range finder it’s not a problem if you can’t estimate distances without one. If you’re hunting out of a stand or blind you should know the distances every time you go to that spot. The muzzle energy at 200 yards will expand the bullet and keep in mind it’s already at .430 when it leaves the barrel. It’s very easy to shoot deer with a 44mag at these distances and kill them very effectively. Go to Hornady’s website for load info or use something like Lyman’s loading manual. Hornady’s website has a simple, easy to use ballistic calculator. Just plug in the info and it will spit out the results. FWIW, the BC of the Hornady 240g XTP is .205.

AWESOME stuff!

[racepres]

Hunting or not, buy the .44 mag lever gun because it's fun!

I Absolutely Agree

[trapper9260]

Hunting or not, buy the .44 mag lever gun because it's fun!

You are right and will not look back , my shoot the same as my RH .

[Froogal]

For what it's worth, a simple little single shot, bolt action .22 will get the job done. I admit it WAS a lucky shot right into the spine, but we had venison.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Accuracy would be my concern with a .44 Mag levergun. Drop and killing power are not big issues, but staying inside a 6-8" circle at 200 yards would be my concern. The new .360 Buckmaster, the 350 Legend, 38-55 or 45-70 if legal - all have good records for accuracy and better trajectories. The pointy Hornady gummy-tip bullets would help the .44 Mag.

[Hannibal]

The thing that bothers me about threads like this is there are a whole bunch of 'hunters' who decend upon the hunting areas every year who won't even bother to spend enough time with a centerfire scoped rifle to reliably take a deer at 100 yards. And now someone even drug a .22lr story into it.

There's no substitute for practice and lots of it. There's no excuse for using a rifle that's marginal for the range expected and there's no excuse for making excuses.

Someone will read this thread and cherry pick a couple of answers because they already decided that's what they want to believe and bad results will ensue. Then people complain about game laws enacted due to the unprepared pushing the limits.

Congratulations. I hope you're happy.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Nothing like some well established facts to mess up an opinion. Here’s what the 44mag in a lever gun can do ballistically. If you sight it in at 125 yards this is what you get using a Hornady 240g XTP bullet and H110/WW296:
Muzzle velocity 1817 fps, energy at 200 yards 875 ft lbs remaining.
Zero: 125y, drop at 150y is 2.4”, drop at 175y is 6.0”, drop at 200y is 10.0”.
I shot IHMSA big bore silhouette for years and I used a DW 44mag revolver. I could shoot the rams at 200y with monotonous regularity. It’s all about knowing the distance. If you get a range finder it’s not a problem if you can’t estimate distances without one. If you’re hunting out of a stand or blind you should know the distances every time you go to that spot. The muzzle energy at 200 yards will expand the bullet and keep in mind it’s already at .430 when it leaves the barrel. It’s very easy to shoot deer with a 44mag at these distances and kill them very effectively. Go to Hornady’s website for load info or use something like Lyman’s loading manual. Hornady’s website has a simple, easy to use ballistic calculator. Just plug in the info and it will spit out the results. FWIW, the BC of the Hornady 240g XTP is .205.

NSB gives some good info here, I shoot short Range Silhouette with my Marlin 1894 CB 24" my standard load of 22 gr of H110/W296 using a Mihec 429244 260gr SWC clone, runs around 1600 fps. This gun has a Lyman 66 LA Rear Sight and I took the time to suss out the Trajectory so that I can get repeatable results at 50/100/150/200 meters. The gun is dead on at 100M. +6 MOA/9" at 150M, and +12MOA /24" at 200M. I could easily run that boolit up to 1800 to 2000 fps and flatten the trajectory but I have no need for that much recoil. The gun also has a large Pachmayer Recoil Pad fitted and it needs it!

Point of all this is you need to take your gun out and shoot it at all the different ranges and write the results down so that you can go back to them when needed. A 250 gr .44 Slug is more than enough to take down any deer in N/A at 200 yards. However if you aren't capable of hitting said Deer at 200 yards this all is pointless. You've got to know your gun and ammo. Simple as that.

Just for the record, I have hit 200 Meter Rams with my S&W696 3" Revolver in .44 Special with midrange loads and they knocked them down just fine.

Randy

[M-Tecs]

If find the old rule of thumb for maximum distance to be spot on. Use a 9" paper plate as a target setup under realistic hunting conditions at various yardages. Once you get to the yardage that you can no longer hit the plate 100% of the time you have your answer as to what your maximum distance should be.

Some can't hit a 9" paper plate at 200 yards with a scope and a very flat shooting cartridge under hunting conditions. Others can do it well past 200 yards with irons and a 44 Mag levergun.

[chutestrate]

The thing that bothers me about threads like this is there are a whole bunch of 'hunters' who decend upon the hunting areas every year who won't even bother to spend enough time with a centerfire scoped rifle to reliably take a deer at 100 yards. And now someone even drug a .22lr story into it.

There's no substitute for practice and lots of it. There's no excuse for using a rifle that's marginal for the range expected and there's no excuse for making excuses.

Someone will read this thread and cherry pick a couple of answers because they already decided that's what they want to believe and bad results will ensue. Then people complain about game laws enacted due to the unprepared pushing the limits.

Congratulations. I hope you're happy.

I am happy. Good people giving good information on both sides of the argument. That was the whole purpose of asking my question. Asking for opinions got what I possibly hadn't considered. Know what I learned? That there are some people who are awesome shots and I'm not in that group. I'm better off with something a little more ooomph. If someone else chooses differently then so be it. So thank you to all.

[Seeker]

To the OP...If I may ask.....if you are shooting out to 150 and 200yrds., why do you need a straight wall cartridge? I'm from north central Pa. If I'm hunting where I'll have shots at those distances, I take my .243 Win.. If I'm woods hunting on our 96 acres where it can be brushy, I use my Henry Steel .45 colt which I have killed deer with. Next year I'll be toting my new .45-70.

[chutestrate]

The Game Commission recently allowed straight walled cartridges in special regulation areas around philadelphia, bucks county, montgomery county and a few others. Gives an option that wasn't there before. I could continue with my 12 ga, but now I have a "solid' reason to get a new toy.

[NSB]

I’ll tell you what I got out of this thread: I need a new toy. I think I’m going to look for a .44mag lever gun. Gives me something to play with over the summer. I DO NOT need another gun, but “need” has never been my excuse. I’m getting one.

[chutestrate]

Hannibal and I had a little conflict earlier, but it was all good. I respect his opinion, and actually agree with him.

[chutestrate]

I’ll tell you what I got out of this thread: I need a new toy. I think I’m going to look for a .44mag lever gun. Gives me something to play with over the summer. I DO NOT need another gun, but “need” has never been my excuse. I’m getting one.

Maybe someday, but my sights are set on the legend or the buckhammer. 44 would be nice, but the slush fund isn't deep enough for both so the 44 will come later. So yeah, new toy this spring or summer to get ready for next year. I find the looking to be part of the fun. The savage axis is priced nicely, and that leaves cash for ammo and practice. If you get one share your thoughts on how it shoots.

[chutestrate]

It’s a big state, hunt somewhere else. Either way, you don’t need a 44mag to kill a deer (although I’ve killed many of them with a 44mag handgun). I’ve killed deer out to 168 yards with a 357mag handgun. Get a laser and know your bullet drop. Being able to shoot at a known distance off of a bench doesn’t make you a capable hunter. If you don’t know your ballistics you’re not doing due diligence in preparing to shoot a big game animal. If your mind’s set on a lever gun, get the 350 Legend. It’s more than adequate and will recoil a lot less than the 44mag. Surprisingly, the 44mag is more unpleasant to shoot in a rifle than it is in a handgun. The Legend is flatter shooting also.

I am really impressed with that shot. I took a nice doe at about 75 yds with m 357 rifle. Good placement and she went down. I don't think I'd try that long of a shot. Nice shooting!!

[Hannibal]

Hannibal and I had a little conflict earlier, but it was all good. I respect his opinion, and actually agree with him.

You have my respect Sir. I hope you find the perfect solution to your situation and I hope your hunt is both fruitful and satisfying.

[Froogal]

The thing that bothers me about threads like this is there are a whole bunch of 'hunters' who decend upon the hunting areas every year who won't even bother to spend enough time with a centerfire scoped rifle to reliably take a deer at 100 yards. And now someone even drug a .22lr story into it.

There's no substitute for practice and lots of it. There's no excuse for using a rifle that's marginal for the range expected and there's no excuse for making excuses.

Someone will read this thread and cherry pick a couple of answers because they already decided that's what they want to believe and bad results will ensue. Then people complain about game laws enacted due to the unprepared pushing the limits.

Congratulations. I hope you're happy.

Just to clarify, the .22 was with us for an entirely different reason. We were NOT hunting deer, but the deer presented itself and it was just too tempting.

[freakonaleash]

At least carry a range finder if you figure you'll be shooting that far. A little error in distance will mean a miss at that range. I always carry mine when I deer hunt.

[BamaNapper]

Maybe the OP doesn't need 200 yds, but he asked for the option.


You are dreaming of a 444.

What he said ^^^^

Is a 44 mag enough power? Then load it like one. Need a little more? Load it hotter. Got an oak tree or a tractor between you and that deer? Then load 'em hot and knock it out of the way.

A couple years ago I asked whether there was any reason to hang onto my 444 as opposed to trading it for a 44 mag lever. Y'all said to keep it and load for the power I wanted. Mild to wild, as some of you said. Good advice then, good advice now.

[Bigslug]

Between the Legend and the Buckhammer, the choice seems simple: the Buckhammer uses .358" bullets - WIN!

The answer to this question of shooting distance with a cartridge with a rainbow trajectory is fairly straightforward - learn the drop on your ammo; get a laser rangefinder; spend some quality time where you'll be sitting; start drawing up sniper's range cards - 75 yards to the white rock; 123 to the fallen log; 182 to the rotted fence.

Next, figure out a "point blank" zero distance that gives you no more than three inches high on the way out, drops to zero, and learn where it drops three inches below that. That six inch vertical space represents how far out you can put one in a deer's boiler room before you need to hold over.

Once you've got that figured out, learn how to use the duplex, hash marks, or whatever else your scope has as gauges for your holdover for longer ranges.

Finally, after you have all that down, start drinking a lot of milk and OJ, then practice killing the jugs.;)

[Teddy (punchie)]

Gone are the old first days of gun hunting in PA

Your lucky to see more then a few hunters.

They changed all that and now they are harvesting what they changed.

Don't forget 10 to 25 percent of hunters hunted deer once a year. Get a way to get out with the boys.

Back when they changed a lot of this was because someone shot a person in Ohioville Twp. Ended up being a fight not a hunting accident. At that time they wanted the whole state shotgun only. Took years to find out the true story but the Game Commission lead everyone to believe different and only reason I recall is I had just got a 20 gauge to test slugs with. 30 years ago almost. If you recall they all shut up around the same time for shotgun only. I'm only saying they should have made the straight wall, archery 50 yds, and shotgun only at the same time if they were thinking this through.






I used to hunt the PA area he talks about. You're lucky to get a 50-yard shot. The new rule is to allow this straight wall rifle as a replacement to shotguns in populated areas. Why did PA come out with the shotgun rules in the first place? It wasn't to make it harder. It was to decrease reciprical damage where someone shoots holes in your home from a long way away. I lived in one of these zones, and opening day sounded like a war zone. Once they switched where I lived in western Chester county to shotgun, it became safer.
I think it's a good thing what they are doing. But I would not expect to make shots further than you could with a shotgun. I would carry my Colt 45 lever gun. They do make a 454 casull version of my lever gun

[Teddy (punchie)]

If find the old rule of thumb for maximum distance to be spot on. Use a 9" paper plate as a target setup under realistic hunting conditions at various yardages. Once you get to the yardage that you can no longer hit the plate 100% of the time you have your answer as to what your maximum distance should be.

Some can't hit a 9" paper plate at 200 yards with a scope and a very flat shooting cartridge under hunting conditions. Others can do it well past 200 yards with irons and a 44 Mag levergun.

Sound about right

[Teddy (punchie)]

One last thing he is hunting in an area where he would like the deer to go down asap. Not wanting to have it run and make more trouble tracking it in someones yard.

[NSB]

Between the Legend and the Buckhammer, the choice seems simple: the Buckhammer uses .358" bullets - WIN!

The answer to this question of shooting distance with a cartridge with a rainbow trajectory is fairly straightforward - learn the drop on your ammo; get a laser rangefinder; spend some quality time where you'll be sitting; start drawing up sniper's range cards - 75 yards to the white rock; 123 to the fallen log; 182 to the rotted fence.

Next, figure out a "point blank" zero distance that gives you no more than three inches high on the way out, drops to zero, and learn where it drops three inches below that. That six inch vertical space represents how far out you can put one in a deer's boiler room before you need to hold over.

Once you've got that figured out, learn how to use the duplex, hash marks, or whatever else your scope has as gauges for your holdover for longer ranges.

Finally, after you have all that down, start drinking a lot of milk and OJ, then practice killing the jugs.;)

A very good answer. There is a distinct difference between a bench shooter (most only a couple of times a year even doing that) and a hunter/marksman. The percentage of true hunters in the woods is definitely in the minority. If you really want to be a hunter and put some effort into it you’ll find you can do very well with calibers such as the 44mag if you learn the ballistics of it and understand that bullet placement kills, not muzzle energy. Most successful bow hunters learned all about kill areas early on. Successful handgun hunters also figured it out, and some rifle have taken the time to get it right also. The NSSF says that the average deer hunter shoots less than two boxes of ammo a year and spends less than seven days a year hunting deer. Those average hunters buy 98% of all guns and ammunition! Serious target shooters/competitors are a small minority of the gun owning public.

[FergusonTO35]

It's hard to estimate the number of casual hunters out there who don't buy licenses due to being exempt or just breakin' the law. There are still many places in this state where the game warden would have a heckuva time accessing even if they wanted to due to terrain, vegetation, and unfriendly landowners. The places I hunt, the warden can't see anything from the nearest public street and there are numerous locked fences surrounding it. My family has always been rural, and hunting was usually just a means to get some extra meat without paying for it. I really, really doubt most of them paid incredibly close attention to seasons and licensing laws. See some wabbits while weeding the garden, grab your shotgun and have 'em for dinner. I do buy my license and tag every year, but there is an infinitesimal chance I would ever get in trouble for not having it..

[Rapier]

The 44 Mag will work just fine at 200 yards. Load is a 240 gr Lyman GC SWC with 23 grains H-110/296. You can use a Ruger Super Blackhawk, but the Marlin with a 3x7 duplex reticle scope works a lot better. Zero with the cross hairs, use the steps to do 150 and 200. Suggest you get a recoil pad, as the recoil can be substantial with a 94. Had a lot of 44 mag shooters with 94s quit after 20 rounds in the Cowboy Silhouette matches, a real beat down.

[BadgerShooter]

One thing to maybe mess with is some of the lehigh bullets. They have some interesting properties and the couple I have tried have been phenomenal in the accuracy department. The internet says they are good on game, but I haven't killed anything with them yet. The right bullet might give you the velocity and flatness to work while their shape might perform adequately at the longer range for terminal ballistics. A bit pricy but interesting.

[P Flados]

The most important element for 150 to 200 yard hunting with any of the current 35 cal or bigger deer guns is field accuracy.

Field accuracy is usually not as good as shooting off of a nice bench at a known distance using sandbags. For all of the rounds being considered, wind drift can be the hardest variable to address. It can add a good bit to your "off of the bench" groups size and be a real problem at 200 yards. I would much prefer group sizes well under 2 MOA under nice conditions to ensure ethical accuracy at 200 yards in a field setting.

I know some lever guns shoot under 2 MOA. I also know that the probability of getting the desired accuracy is going to be better with a single shot or a bolt action.

Of the three rounds mentioned in the OP, a 350L bolt action looks like the best bet. Lots of folks have gone this path and many have reported excellent accuracy with minimal effort. There is still a chance that a bolt gun will be less accurate than desired from the factory. However, tuning a bolt action is usually more straightforward than a lever.

I like the potential of the 360 BH. A really good shooting 360 BH would do just fine. However, to get "good shooting", my bet would be leaning toward a single shot.

[shtur]

An older fellow in Idaho with a big hat and cigar shot a deer 600 yards ways with a 4" 44 Magnum revolver. I think Brian Williams witnessed it.

[FergusonTO35]

The most important element for 150 to 200 yard hunting with any of the current 35 cal or bigger deer guns is field accuracy.

Field accuracy is usually not as good as shooting off of a nice bench at a known distance using sandbags. For all of the rounds being considered, wind drift can be the hardest variable to address. It can add a good bit to your "off of the bench" groups size and be a real problem at 200 yards. I would much prefer group sizes well under 2 MOA under nice conditions to ensure ethical accuracy at 200 yards in a field setting.

I know some lever guns shoot under 2 MOA. I also know that the probability of getting the desired accuracy is going to be better with a single shot or a bolt action.

Of the three rounds mentioned in the OP, a 350L bolt action looks like the best bet. Lots of folks have gone this path and many have reported excellent accuracy with minimal effort. There is still a chance that a bolt gun will be less accurate than desired from the factory. However, tuning a bolt action is usually more straightforward than a lever.

I like the potential of the 360 BH. A really good shooting 360 BH would do just fine. However, to get "good shooting", my bet would be leaning toward a single shot.

Strangely, my actual hunting accuracy is usually alot better than on the range!

[elmacgyver0]

An older fellow in Idaho with a big hat and cigar shot a deer 600 yards ways with a 4" 44 Magnum revolver. I think Brian Williams witnessed it.

I thought it was an elk, but you may be right.
In any case he was quite a pistol shooter.
Guess he didn't get the memo it would run out of power at that range.

[megasupermagnum]

I know someone is going to slap me for this, but have you considered 357 magnum? Not a wimpy little load, but a strong H110 load one the level of Buffalo bore or Double Tap ammo loads. I haven't ever owned a 44 magnum in a rifle, but I'm not seeing much for speed listed. It looks like you are doing pretty good to get 1800 fps from a 240gr, although I'm sure you could do a little better if you were willing to load to CIP standards. I'm not sure what kind of accuracy can be had from really light 200ish grain bullets, they aren't that great in a handgun.

Anyway, a 240gr bullet, about .15 BC is what I've seen, 1800 fps, sighted for a max point blank range of plus or minus 3" you are about 13" low at 200 yards. Not he end of the world. If you went to a 357 magnum you can shoot a 158 or 160 gr bullet north of 2100 fps, similar BC. That gives you a point blank range past 175, and you are only about 5 1/2" low at 200 yards, which seems very reasonable to me. The killer with any of these types of cartridges is the wind drift. Even in a light 10mph wind, the 44 mag will drift about 20" at 200 yards, and the 357 mag about 17". Those "pointy" Hornady FTX bullets mentioned are not really that much better. For example in 357 magnum it is a 140gr which allows a little more speed, lets say 2250 fps, but the BC isn't really any better at .16. It only brings your wind drift down to 15" or so.

The 360 BH would be a decent jump up. It is advertised at 2400 fps with a 180gr, or 2200 fps with a 200 gr. Assuming the 200gr is the same as the bullet used in the 35 Rem, it is a rather poor BC at .192 due to it being a round nose, the 180 gr would be in that .16ish range. So the 180 gr would allow you a point blank range past 200 yards, but wind drift would still be in the 13" range. The 200 gr would allow a point blank range right to 200 yards, and wind drift down to 11" or 12" in a 10mph wind. I think that is as good as you are going to get.

I'm not saying not to do it at all. I'm just trying to present the numbers as they are. It's up to you what to do with them. I've regularly shot 357 and 327 rifles at 200 yards for fun, and it's not that tough with a scope.

[freakonaleash]

I wonder why any cartridge more potent than the 44 mag was ever produced. It seems to be all that anyone ever needs for deer hunting.

[jgstrug]

I appreciate all the advice. I haven't picked up a rifle yet. It's something I'd like to do this summer. Just rolling through various options. I do hunt several different areas and can cover with different caliber options. My one area of need is the straight wall cartridge. I won't exclude good areas because of a the game laws...just adapt. Who doesn't like buying a new gun?Your advice on this has been all over the place, but given exactly what YOU have written, may I suggest at least reading a little about the 38-55. It has been chambered in lever actions for 120 years, uses the same amount of lead,powder, and primer,and will perform the exact task that you asked for.

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[Kosh75287]

This'll sound like I'm being a smart-[posterior], but I'm not. You COULD try mounting a tang sight on your rifle, to the rear of the hammer. It won't alter the ballistics nor trajectory of the .44 Magnum round, but a somewhat longer sight radius can often wring unrealized accuracy from the platforms that shoot them.

[jgstrug]

This'll sound like I'm being a smart-[posterior], but I'm not. You COULD try mounting a tang sight on your rifle, to the rear of the hammer. It won't alter the ballistics nor trajectory of the .44 Magnum round, but a somewhat longer sight radius can often wring unrealized accuracy from the platforms that shoot them.How much more than mounting it 3" forward on the receiver where it belongs?

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[chutestrate]

Your advice on this has been all over the place, but given exactly what YOU have written, may I suggest at least reading a little about the 38-55. It has been chambered in lever actions for 120 years, uses the same amount of lead,powder, and primer,and will perform the exact task that you asked for.

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I will. I briefly looked at it, but not closely. Thank you

[mnewcomb59]

I know someone is going to slap me for this, but have you considered 357 magnum? Not a wimpy little load, but a strong H110 load one the level of Buffalo bore or Double Tap ammo loads. I haven't ever owned a 44 magnum in a rifle, but I'm not seeing much for speed listed. It looks like you are doing pretty good to get 1800 fps from a 240gr, although I'm sure you could do a little better if you were willing to load to CIP standards. I'm not sure what kind of accuracy can be had from really light 200ish grain bullets, they aren't that great in a handgun.

Anyway, a 240gr bullet, about .15 BC is what I've seen, 1800 fps, sighted for a max point blank range of plus or minus 3" you are about 13" low at 200 yards. Not he end of the world. If you went to a 357 magnum you can shoot a 158 or 160 gr bullet north of 2100 fps, similar BC. That gives you a point blank range past 175, and you are only about 5 1/2" low at 200 yards, which seems very reasonable to me. The killer with any of these types of cartridges is the wind drift. Even in a light 10mph wind, the 44 mag will drift about 20" at 200 yards, and the 357 mag about 17". Those "pointy" Hornady FTX bullets mentioned are not really that much better. For example in 357 magnum it is a 140gr which allows a little more speed, lets say 2250 fps, but the BC isn't really any better at .16. It only brings your wind drift down to 15" or so.

The 360 BH would be a decent jump up. It is advertised at 2400 fps with a 180gr, or 2200 fps with a 200 gr. Assuming the 200gr is the same as the bullet used in the 35 Rem, it is a rather poor BC at .192 due to it being a round nose, the 180 gr would be in that .16ish range. So the 180 gr would allow you a point blank range past 200 yards, but wind drift would still be in the 13" range. The 200 gr would allow a point blank range right to 200 yards, and wind drift down to 11" or 12" in a 10mph wind. I think that is as good as you are going to get.

I'm not saying not to do it at all. I'm just trying to present the numbers as they are. It's up to you what to do with them. I've regularly shot 357 and 327 rifles at 200 yards for fun, and it's not that tough with a scope.

Lil' Gun is the powder for 357 rifles and yes, it will shoot a .16 BC 158 grain bullet over 2000 fps at less than SAAMI max pressure. The case is full before max pressure is reached and brass lasts forever. If you have a gun that can take longer OAL up to 1.63 and a long nose bullet such as the NOE 154-WFN you can get more powder in the case and get SAAMI max pressure at 2150 fps.

Lil' Gun seems to be too fast burning in the 44 and 45 and max pressure is reached around 75-90% case fill. I think the best powder for bigger bores will end up being Accurate 11FS. It is a dense, cool burning powder that seems to barely make max pressure at 100% case fill and loads have 10-15% higher charge weight than H110 and Lil' Gun. Higher charge weights at equal pressure means more acceleration and more gas and more velocity in the rifle barrels. Or you could equal your hot H110 loads at much lower pressure and make brass last longer.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=27416160

[BamaNapper]

How much more than mounting it 3" forward on the receiver where it belongs?

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To qualify my response here, I've never put a tang site on any of my rifles. So I can't offer any opinion based on real world experience.

I thought the same thing when I first read the response from Kosh75287. So I opened up an image of a typical lever gun. A 20" barrel puts the sight radius right at 20". Putting a tang to the rear of the hammer added almost 50% (10") to the sight radius. Then that just didn't seem right, so I took a quick look at a couple more images. I'm at work, so no lever guns around to actually measure. If you mount a scope on a lever gun the front of the scope aligns pretty close to the rear fixed sight, and the rear of the scope is pretty close to where a tang would mount. The length of a scope is what? About 10 inches? Maybe the 50% increase is sight radius isn't that far off after all. It seems that much increase could close a 3" group to 2" if the bullets flew perfect. Am I way off base?

[jgstrug]

To qualify my response here, I've never put a tang site on any of my rifles. So I can't offer any opinion based on real world experience.

I thought the same thing when I first read the response from Kosh75287. So I opened up an image of a typical lever gun. A 20" barrel puts the sight radius right at 20". Putting a tang to the rear of the hammer added almost 50% (10") to the sight radius. Then that just didn't seem right, so I took a quick look at a couple more images. I'm at work, so no lever guns around to actually measure. If you mount a scope on a lever gun the front of the scope aligns pretty close to the rear fixed sight, and the rear of the scope is pretty close to where a tang would mount. The length of a scope is what? About 10 inches? Maybe the 50% increase is sight radius isn't that far off after all. It seems that much increase could close a 3" group to 2" if the bullets flew perfect. Am I way off base?I feel that the sight belongs on the receiver just ahead of the hammer spur. The tang sight is 3-31/2" further back, giving a longer sight radius, but all the negatives of the tang sight outweigh any advantages. The tang sight is fragile, right in the way of your trigger hand, sticks way up, difficult to make perpendicular with the bore,moves with each shot, interferes with the bolt, etc. I guess I have made a pretty good case for the receiver sight. Unless you are shooting further than 200yrd with a lever action; the receiver sight is the ultimate sight, and I prefer no aluminum pieces either.

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[JuliettDeltaGolf]

I feel that the sight belongs on the receiver just ahead of the hammer spur. The tang sight is 3-31/2" further back, giving a longer sight radius, but all the negatives of the tang sight outweigh any advantages. The tang sight is fragile, right in the way of your trigger hand, sticks way up, difficult to make perpendicular with the bore,moves with each shot, interferes with the bolt, etc. I guess I have made a pretty good case for the receiver sight. Unless you are shooting further than 200yrd with a lever action; the receiver sight is the ultimate sight, and I prefer no aluminum pieces either.

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I get the preference here, but the way it is stated seems a little arrogant given the popularity of tang sights on lever guns for 150 years or so- not to mention the fact that many fine top-eject leverguns are hard to mount a receiver sight to. I kinda figure that the change to receiver peeps -especially on military guns- was for good reasons, but I think it's a bit over the top to decry the tang sight as somehow a poor choice. I also have hunted with one on my 1873 Winchester clone pretty hard for a couple years and love it. Sounds like you've never been around a decent tang sight. Mine isn't even anything special, and it is NOT difficult to get perpendicular to the bore, as it is made for the gun (but they ARE supposed to lean forward ever so slightly), has NOT proven to be overly fragile, does NOT get in my way now that I'm used to it, does NOT move with each shot (only really really crappy or worn out tang sights do, unless we're talking target BPCR sights, and then it isn't a problem), does NOT get in the way of the bolt (again, proper base and sight for the rifle) etc. Combined with a large aperture, the factory buckhorn rear and a Montana Vintage Arms Beach-style combination front sight, I absolutely love the setup. Insanely fast and accurate at close range, precise and accurate at long range, great in all kinds of shooting light.

[jgstrug]

I get the preference here, but the way it is stated seems a little arrogant given the popularity of tang sights on lever guns for 150 years or so- not to mention the fact that many fine top-eject leverguns are hard to mount a receiver sight to. I kinda figure that the change to receiver peeps -especially on military guns- was for good reasons, but I think it's a bit over the top to decry the tang sight as somehow a poor choice. I also have hunted with one on my 1873 Winchester clone pretty hard for a couple years and love it. Sounds like you've never been around a decent tang sight. Mine isn't even anything special, and it is NOT difficult to get perpendicular to the bore, as it is made for the gun (but they ARE supposed to lean forward ever so slightly), has NOT proven to be overly fragile, does NOT get in my way now that I'm used to it, does NOT move with each shot (only really really crappy or worn out tang sights do, unless we're talking target BPCR sights, and then it isn't a problem), does NOT get in the way of the bolt (again, proper base and sight for the rifle) etc. Combined with a large aperture, the factory buckhorn rear and a Montana Vintage Arms Beach-style combination front sight, I absolutely love the setup. Insanely fast and accurate at close range, precise and accurate at long range, great in all kinds of shooting light.500$ MVA on this one; don't shoot it, prefer this one. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230218/b717f24f7b23f3e13e7d8a3a3678013d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230218/fe58f1705a366f020750d1d22a4c23fc.jpg

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[jgstrug]

Original Lyman on this one; don't shoot it, prefer this one. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230218/e8bcc54a2a2819d7af48386880e2091f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230218/f5e5227d9064ad56cf66f1a1cbb8e26d.jpg

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[freakonaleash]

Stunning stock on that Marlin!!

[jgstrug]

Stunning stock on that Marlin!!Thank you very m

uch, if you expand the picture of the one with the MVA, it has an incredible stock too.


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[Good Cheer]

Heh, dealing with onerous regulatory prohibitions on common sense. We have much the same situation around these parts. To maximize my reach the first concern would be what twist the .44 had in the barrel and how heavy of a boolit I could get to shoot accurately enough... for how far away.

That said, I'd probably opt for a single shot so I could optimize my powder selection and boolit weight like for the NEF .45 Colt. This design puts the lead up the pipe instead of taking up powder space. If the rifling twist in the .44 doesn't hold you back.
https://i.imgur.com/29sKfYR.jpg

[Baltimoreed]

If the animal is that far away and my gun is chambered in a pistol caliber my first thought would be to get closer. If its a active crossing then tomorrow my portable tree stand would be 150 yds closer with the wind blowing the right direction. Good luck on your hunt.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Get your field craft in order and get close to your game.

[Larry Gibson]

"Is there a way to make a 44 mag lever gun a 150 to 200 yd hunting rifle?"

Yes there is, sell it and get a 30-30.

[Griff]

How much more than mounting it 3" forward on the receiver where it belongs?

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Probably 3 times as much! If not in actual accuracy, then in confidence that you're using the VERY best in peep sights!:-P

[jgstrug]

Probably 3 times as much! If not in actual accuracy, then in confidence that you're using the VERY best in peep sights!:-PThat's the way I feel about the receiver all steel sight.

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[chutestrate]

"Is there a way to make a 44 mag lever gun a 150 to 200 yd hunting rifle?"

Yes there is, sell it and get a 30-30.

Lol I love it.

[pa.frank]

I very seriously doubt your gonna find anywhere close to Philly where you can get a 200 yd shot.
The last deer i shot in Pa was in Monroe county.. under 50 yards and I shot it with a Cowboy load from my 1894 Marlin 45 Colt.