Loading 44-40

[Wayne Smith]

OK, I have a problem. I've been loading 44-40 for the past few years - close to ten. I now have ammo that won't fit my guns. I got smart and did some measuring, simple, I know. The ammo that fits my gun measures .441 at the top of the cartridge, the base of the boolit. The ones that don't measure .444.

Boolits are the same and sized to .429. Recently ones loaded were resized to verify no growth. Brass for both is R-P. Reloading dies are Lee and have been all along. The Lee Factory Crimp die has been used for all of them. Of course, this is the rifle die and it does not size the case. A sized and not boolited case fits into the gun easily.

So my problem is, What Changed?

I'm seriously considering buying the RCBS black powder dies.

[45_Colt]

Possibly the case necks got thicker? IRC, 44-40 brass typically has a thin neck thickness. Maybe enough brass flowed into the neck area, that now expands to a larger diameter.

Or, different R-P brass that is factory thicker in the necks?

45_Colt

[Ajohns]

Maybe try take your decapper out of the sizing die and slowly run it up in there to feel resistance.
If the crimp is getting too much, it maybe bulging the case neck. Even with the FCD and since they are thin cases, it can happen.
This may size it back the .003 you need?
I can't say as I quit using anything but Starline for both 38 and 44 WCF years ago.

[HWooldridge]

Maybe try take your decapper out of the sizing die and slowly run it up in there to feel resistance.
If the crimp is getting too much, it maybe bulging the case neck. Even with the FCD and since they are thin cases, it can happen.
This may size it back the .003 you need?
I can't say as I quit using anything but Starline for both 38 and 44 WCF years ago.

^^^This is very likely. It's easy to over crimp the 44-40 and make the neck swell. Remington and Winchester brass is typically thinner than Starline, so are easier to deform.

[Ajohns]

I should've also added to my previous, I spaced it out.
To go along with the crimp die situation, the case length is what can cause the over tension, or bulge.
But, if you have uniform lengths as before, I'd try the size die and adjust your crimp a bit less.

[Polymath]

Recedtly came across the same problem. Need to size smaller to fit. Older models seem ok but the Miroku Winchesters seem to have a smaller chamber. .427 sizer from lee.

[Wayne Smith]

1) These are all RP cases from the same generation. 2) The Lee die does not have an expander, it is just a shaft, and it's gone anyway because I decap before I run them through the polisher. Also, I've been loading BP so they go through a soapy water 3mm ceramic ball cleaning first. 3) This is not a crimp bulge, I measured at the junction of the case and the boolit, thus at the crimp. I can measure further back to see if there is a buldge, but I'm guessing that this .003 is enough to cause the case to not fit.

[HWooldridge]

You can cover a case with layout blue or even a Sharpie and get a better idea of where it's rubbing. Might be exactly where you think - or somewhere else.

[Ajohns]

It may not be a bulge by eye, but something is making the diameter bigger to not fit. On what once fit.
You say "guns" so it shouldn't be something involved there. If all variables in components are equal, the process is changed.
As said above, layout dye or a sharpie could tell you a lot also.

[Wayne Smith]

I measured the case that was .444 and it was .444 the whole length of the neck. No bulge. If the sizing die makes the case .441 or less (the case fits the cylinder) what would make the whole neck expand to .444? I have no way to measure the brass thickness but .444-.429=.015/2=.0075. Does that make sense? Outside diameter minus boolit diameter divided by 2 should approximate brass thickness?

There is a visible ring inside the cylinder, assuming that is where the case should stop? and the boolit is hitting there?

[Outpost75]

Junk the Lee FCD and replace it with the Redding Profile Crimp die which full length resizes the loaded round and gets rid of the shoulder and crimp bulges!

[Ajohns]

I understand what youre saying. Math measurements sound spot on to me? But yes, big.
Sized case fits, finished one doesnt.
Ok, you ever try one without the crimp process? I really shouldnt have said you have a bulge, but more so that the crimp process is expanding/swelling the neck because of too much pressure.
For what its worth, my loads are .443
Starline brass, .430 pill.
But this is used in my rifles, and fits in all of them.
Also, when yours dont fit, is it the last wee bit? Is it when the boolit would hit the throat area? How far in do they make it.
Take apart and clean the dies? Crud, gunk, carbon, anything there?

[Ajohns]

Put it to you another way on the crimp die.
44wcf LFC can be made to crimp a wide range of diameters. Its a collet system. If you have too much pressure on a smaller boolit on a thin neck, it could make the neck expand to a greater size. Less pressure can still crimp, but not as to shrink the neck. More pressure will crimp harder, but down pressure from the lever could make the neck expand more than needed, closer to the bigger diameter tolerance of the collet.
Just my theory, I could be wrong.

[Wayne Smith]

You guys got me thinking. Yes, the cartridge is overly large before I crimp - same issue. This means it is the boolit/brass combination that is the problem. The boolit is the MAV Big Lube Lee six cavity mold. I seated the boolit a little deeper in the case - and viola! the case went deeper into the chamber.

This means that the shoulder of the boolit is hitting the inside of the chamber - how much do you bet my problem is a piece of lead between the two halves of the mold -making the boolits just a touch larger and the olgive of the boolit just a touch too big. Either that or my fingers hit the release lever just enough to slightly open the mold. I made a bunch of these boolits years ago - I think I need to melt the rest and re-cast, paying close attention to the mold in the process.

[Wayne Smith]

Junk the Lee FCD and replace it with the Redding Profile Crimp die which full length resizes the loaded round and gets rid of the shoulder and crimp bulges!

?? How does that work? This is a necked round and the Rifle FCD is a collet that just hits the top of the case.

[gunther]

A Ruger Buckeye Special in 38-40 had small throats and the bullets had to be seated deep enough to avoid interference with the throats. Otherwise they wouldn't chamber.

[Outpost75]

?? How does that work? This is a necked round and the Rifle FCD is a collet that just hits the top of the case.

That is the problem with the Lee. The Redding die profiles the entire round from crimp to shell holder. When loading black powder you don't need to resize the brass. Just decap, reprime, fill case with powder, set bullet to depth, crimp and full length size loaded round.

[Abert Rim]

I was going to ask if you changed your boolit alloy ...

[Polymath]

1) These are all RP cases from the same generation. 2) The Lee die does not have an expander, it is just a shaft, and it's gone anyway because I decap before I run them through the polisher. Also, I've been loading BP so they go through a soapy water 3mm ceramic ball cleaning first. 3) This is not a crimp bulge, I measured at the junction of the case and the boolit, thus at the crimp. I can measure further back to see if there is a buldge, but I'm guessing that this .003 is enough to cause the case to not fit.

What I did is I took the Lee Sizer Die, (used in the breech lock system, APP systems) Dropped into a breech lock fitting, then screwed a shortened pipe bushing into the top. I epoxied it in place for extra measure. I used a push rod from a similar sized set to push the bullets up through the press.
310406
310407