Earthquake in Turkey

[GregLaROCHE]

I’m no expert on concrete, but all the pictures I’ve seen, the buildings really seem to have crumbled into small pieces and dust. I remember the condominium in Florida that collapsed, but I don’t remember it looking the same. Is the concrete there not to other world standards?

[dannyd]

When I was in Turkey nothing was up to World standards unless your taking Third World. It's a shame too because the people for the most part are very nice; their just stuck in a bad situation.

[BLAHUT]

Cheap is how they roll, that's why it powders. Nothing will change, even with 20 some thousand dead and over 75 thousand wounded...

[HWooldridge]

The quakes were nothing to sneeze at either, even for good construction, which it wasn’t. Friend of mine has family there but fortunately they live in the countryside.

[dannyd]

The biggest earthquake I have done so far is a 3.4 and that was definitely an "E-Ride" about 2 o'clock in the morning. Unless you can Hover there's nothing to but hang on till it's over.

[GregLaROCHE]

Do they simplify use less cement in the mix?

[Recycled bullet]

I suspect that the root of the problem is cultural and that it may be common to find stupid crap like they used spray painted bamboo instead of rebar reinforcement then bribed the building code inspector to pass it and pocket the difference.

This reminds me of the Haiti earth quake where quarter million people died and over 300k were made homeless.

Then look at Chile where the earthquake was approximately 500 times more powerful and less than 600 people died. The real difference is in Chile they take building codes serious and if you are caught pulling that corrupt building inspector crap they nail you to the wall when it's your day in court.

This was a strong life ending earthquake for turkey and it sucks for everyone under a substandard roof.

I didn't recognize a picture my co worker showed me as I wasn't expecting everything to look crumbled like a stomped oatmeal cookie.

[salpal48]

No one realy cares about those countries

[Fireball 57]

If memory serves me, the Turkish Premier stated recently, "We don't want America's dirty money!" Maybe he has too much of our tax money. Have a great day. Fireball

[Bmi48219]

If memory serves me, the Turkish Premier stated recently, "We don't want America's dirty money!" Maybe he has too much of our tax money. Have a great day. Fireball

Hmm, a politician with principles?

[Wis Tom]

Whatever the Govt. is like, my heart goes out to the people that are in the middle of it. They already were living through 80% inflation, and unlike over here, the money doesn't appear out of thin air. We keep fooling around and lose the petrodollar, we won't be having a very good day either, just saying.

[Alex_4x4]

:-)

[tinsnips]

I have been to quite a few third world countries most of them use the same construction methods poor at best.

[NSB]

Ironic that the cost of concrete here in the U.S. is very high right now because most of it comes from Turkey. If it was going up because the supply chain was interrupted it’s about to get a lot worse. Maybe they should have used more of it for themselves.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Whatever the Govt. is like, my heart goes out to the people that are in the middle of it. They already were living through 80% inflation, and unlike over here, the money doesn't appear out of thin air. We keep fooling around and lose the petrodollar, we won't be having a very good day either, just saying.

most people just want to live !!

[Scrounge]

I’m no expert on concrete, but all the pictures I’ve seen, the buildings really seem to have crumbled into small pieces and dust. I remember the condominium in Florida that collapsed, but I don’t remember it looking the same. Is the concrete there not to other world standards?

When I was stationed there in the mid-80's, their quality control for nearly everything was what you could call "iffy." Efes Pilsen beer, for example, was locally produced by Turks. You could get a six-pack where one beer would be like drinking beer-flavored Kool-Aid, and one could knock you on your butt. Tuborg was also brewed and sold there, but was produced under supervision of northern Europeans, and was a great deal more consistent, but also more expensive. There were craftsmen doing some very fine work, but their religion teaches that nothing man makes can be perfect, and there is no sense in trying to get there. Good Turkish carpets are hand-woven, and they intentionally make mistakes so as not to be seen as challenging God by trying to be perfect. dannyd nailed it. There is also "baksheesh." That is the extra money you hand over to inspectors for doing their jobs in a manner favorable to you. Nobody can live on just their regular wages. And they've been hammered by hyperinflation for quite a long time. Back in Ottoman times, a Turkish Lira (tl) was most of an ounce of fine silver. Back when I was there, a skilled Turkish carpenter made about 350tl a month. Exchange rate was 186tl to the dollar. A 1 kilo loaf of fresh bread was 10tl. Wife and I and our next-door neighbor & his wife went to the Sultan, most expensive restaurant in Adana, for dinner one night. We took a taxi from the base, ate the most expensive dinner & desert for 4 on the menu, taxi back to the base, and had ice cream at the Baskin Robbins on base, and including tips the whole night cost me a $20 bill. Cost me almost that to get the wife and I breakfast yesterday morning at Carl's Jr. President of the Republic of Turkey got a pay raise while I was there. His pay went to the equivalent of $1500 a month. I was a Technical Sergeant in the USAF, and getting $1900 a month at the time.

[augercreek]

Have you seen the quake valley? It looks like the Grand Canyon!

[Shawlerbrook]

Never been there but I would imagine there are a lot of really old buildings. Don’t think there is too much construction that will survive a top end earthquake.

[GregLaROCHE]

The quake valley created is really something. Imagine if was in the middle of a big city.

[lightman]

Thats really sad! Its amazing that they are still rescuing people after 200+ hours!

[Mr Peabody]

Do they simplify use less cement in the mix?

That's what it looked like. You can put replacement powders in place of the cement. Too putting too much water in the mix greatly reduces the strength of the concrete

[john.k]

One common cheat in these places is to use beach sand in the concrete ,without washing the salt out .....and of course ,as little cement as possible..........desert sand also makes weak concrete,the grains are too polished and regular.

[Winger Ed.]

.and of course ,as little cement as possible.....

That was my first guess.
A long time friend's Dad had a brick wall built years ago.
After he found the cheapest guy to build on it, he began browbeating him to bring down the price.

And the guy did. Each time he had to cut the price, he figured out another corner to cut.
It ended up with no foundation beam under it, no wire/rebar, no filling in core holes, and just enough cement powder to
give it the right color in the mortar joints. You could walk up and rub sand out of the mortar joints with your finger.
I sort of figure that's how they build stuff over there when a earthquake just disassembles entire buildings.

[Baltimoreed]

The world today is in a very sad state and is going to continue to devolve and destroy itself. 30,000 souls gone in just minutes with others taking a little longer to perish. A lot of heartache everywhere. Don’t forget pile of rubble that the country of Ukraine is slowly becoming.

[john.k]

Ya gotta laugh ,but a highrise developer is wanted here to appear before a comission investigating bribery and corruption in local councils and the building industry......anyhoo,this guy says he wont be able to appear at the comission as "he is visiting relatives in a remote part of Lebanon"

[Winger Ed.]

Ya gotta laugh , investigating bribery and corruption in local councils and the building industry.

It's a problem in other places too.
There's videos on youtube about construction in China where buildings and houses
are condemned or falling apart before they are even finished.
Re-bar substituted out with bamboo, or so brittle you can snap it by hand, apartment buildings built with no wiring or plumbing,
concrete that is little more than a gray colored dirt clod.....

It's so bad, it's hard to believe unless you see the pictures.

[GregLaROCHE]

One common cheat in these places is to use beach sand in the concrete ,without washing the salt out .....and of course ,as little cement as possible..........desert sand also makes weak concrete,the grains are too polished and regular.

I’ve seen several examples of where beach sand was used. After a few years, the rebar starts to rust and expand and forces the concrete to crack.

[dverna]

I think about the people who have been raised in ****holes like this. It does not take long to accept bribery and corruption as a way of life.

We are seeing it here now as well. I guess it may have always been present and I was too blind to see it. But it is "in your face" now.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Have you seen the quake valley? It looks like the Grand Canyon!

Yes, that is eye opening. Don't recall seeing that before.

[Good Cheer]

Concrete, cement and cinder block construction doesn't hold up to be shaken apart.
Neither does brick, as many will witness next time the New Madrid wakes up.
What's happened in Turkey is what happens to brittle structures when they get flexed, both for the buildings and the bed rock.

[farmbif]

that was a good strong quake, saw pictures where a very substantial size whole new Valley was created by quake where it was once an olive grove

[wilecoyote]

I’ve seen several examples of where beach sand was used. After a few years, the rebar starts to rust and expand and forces the concrete to crack.

I personally have found sea shells (!) in the mortar mix used here by masons more than sixty years ago. that means they had used beach sand, not construction sand_
this is building a time bomb, because the salt in the sea sand slowly demolishes the building even without rusting rebars, even without an earthquake.
the same is true if salt water is used and not fresh water in the mix.