Best place to get black powder

[T-Bird]

I haven't shot real black powder since the early '70's. I had a cap and ball revolver that I shot a lot of it in. When I was older and bought my first bp rifle, the store that I got my bp from had closed, and the LGS didn't carry real black. Pyrodex was the choice so I went with it and have had no problems......until now. I bought a drop in Green Mountain 54 cal slow twist barrel for my T/C Hawken and it will give fairly frequent hang fires with both 777 and Pyrodex. I was thinking that if I go to real black powder, these will probably stop. I know I'm gonna have to get it online but didn't know where was the best place. I've seen it at Powder Valley. I knew that y'all would know the best (cheapest) place.

[FrankJD]

A few others ....

http://www.blackpowderva.com/

www.mainepowderhouse.com/

https://powderinc.com/

[BLAHUT]

Track of the wolf in Minnesota.

[T-Bird]

I had checked TOW, I buy from them a lot didnt see the powder. Checked just now..... there it is! Will ck those others too, thanks!

[Milky Duck]

make your own..there are a couple of good threads on here with the how to do it ....

[Trapper-Jack]

If you didn't have any problems in the beginning, maybe check and see if your barrel has a chambered breach. If so, a regular cleaning jag won't be able to go all the way to the bottom. Unless you use a brush with or a scraper with the same profile, this area often won't get cleaned and develop a fouling buildup that will affect the ignition.

[Randy Bohannon]

Graf’s or Buffalo Arms simply because they do it very well .

[BLAHUT]

I haven't shot real black powder since the early '70's. I had a cap and ball revolver that I shot a lot of it in. When I was older and bought my first bp rifle, the store that I got my bp from had closed, and the LGS didn't carry real black. Pyrodex was the choice so I went with it and have had no problems......until now. I bought a drop in Green Mountain 54 cal slow twist barrel for my T/C Hawken and it will give fairly frequent hang fires with both 777 and Pyrodex. I was thinking that if I go to real black powder, these will probably stop. I know I'm gonna have to get it online but didn't know where was the best place. I've seen it at Powder Valley. I knew that y'all would know the best (cheapest) place.

Try a magnum primer ??? Try blackhorn209 ???

[dondiego]

Fix your firearm.

[T-Bird]

This is a different barrel/breech placed on a factory T/c rifle. I stated that in my op. The probs came with the change. No probs with the factory barrel using pyrodex. I assume some internal architecture is different that is causing this and I suspect that black powder will solve this because it's much easier to ignite. I wanted a slow twist to shoot prb exclusively. The factory 48 twist barrel did ok but I was looking for better accuracy (y'all know how we are). I'm using CCI magnum primers, the only thing that was available when I grabbed several hundred right before they became unavailable.

[Minerat]

I just got some from Grafs. They had their house brand for $18.95/ lb. Five pounds worked out to be about $27/ lb with hazmat and shipping. Ordered on a Saturday evening got it on Wednesday.

I had a little of that misfiring in my TC 54 factory barrel and went to a HotShot nipple and that helped. Still had a little problem if I tried to go more the 5 shots before wiping and picking the nipple. (that just sounds bad)

[Milky Duck]

CCI primers can be rather on hard side..make sure there is no gunk in and around your firing pin causing a lighter than normal strike... but hat would cause a misfire which will usually go off if hit again rather than a hangfire/slow ignition- delayed ignition

[Jackrabbit1957]

Is your breech set up a snail type or is it a drum? I'm thinking the flash channel is restricted and needs to be opened up.

[T-Bird]

This is a sidelock Milkyduck, snail type breech Jack, I was thinking the same as you. That's what I was referring to with the "internal architecture" comment. Minerat, I've bought stuff from Graf's before. great service. I didn't know they had bp, that's the best deal yet! thank's. Y'all have all helped a lot, thank's!

[Sasquatch-1]

Is your breech set up a snail type or is it a drum? I'm thinking the flash channel is restricted and needs to be opened up.

This would be my guess. If you have a bore scope you should check to see if the flash hole was drilled properly and not partially blocked by the breech plug.

[Adam Helmer]

No local gun shop carries real BP, only Pyro or T-7. Every summer I buy BP at the local gun club ronneyvoo on sutler's lane.

Adam

[T-Bird]

I don't have a bore scope. If real black doesn't "fix" the condition, I'll investigate further.

[megasupermagnum]

I think a lot of you missed some key points.

This is a TC Hawken. It was fine with the original barrel. He bought a Green Mountain drop in barrel that he is now having some hangfires with. Unless he put a magspark nipple on it, which he did not say, he he is using #11 or #10 percussion caps.

I can't speculate if the breech plug Green mountain uses has any differences from a TC plug as far as the chamber goes. They are still the same Patent type plug with a cast in channel. They are drop in barrels essentially identical to TC barrels. T-Bird may be correct that real blackpowder will help is problem. It is the easiest to ignite and most reliable powder there is. My concern is that there might be some kind of issue that could be fixed. A simple test is to take your barrel off, pour some powder down, lightly tap it to make sure it settled, then remove your nipple. There should be a decent amount of powder under your nipple. If there isn't, you know you have some kind of obstruction and the cause of your hangfires. It could be a casting defect, it could be fouling. What I like to use to clean the chamber on my breech plug is a slightly smaller bronze brush. I use a 50 cal brush in a 54 caliber barrel. I make sure and only rotate clockwise and let that brush out the chamber. There could still be a defect in the flash channel. There is a small screw on the side near your nipple. If you take that out you can run a pipe cleaner all the way though. You can do it through the nipple hole, but its much harder. If you can't run it though, you know you have some kind of casting defect. As for caps, by CCI magnum I'm going to assume you mean #11 CCI magnum percussion caps, which are the same caps I use. They are the best there are in my opinion.

Anyway, to actually answer your question I have multiple answers. I have not looked for or bought black powder since 2019, so I don't know the current state of things. At that time online buying was the best if you were willing to buy at least 10# at a time. If you are willing to buy 25# at a time, Jacks Powder Keg was the best prices I saw, and they can sometimes deliver locally for free if you are willing to wait, and are willing to meet them at a local event. I bought a lot from both Powder Inc. and Grafs. I don't think I've ever seen great prices from Powder Valley, but they are not horrible. I used to live right by Track of the Wolf, about 25 miles from it. I've bought from there, but they charge too much to be worth it. The prices they charge in the store are NOT the prices on the website. I was always able to buy online and have it shipped to my door cheaper than I could buy it in person at TOTW, even if you don't count the 50 miles worth of gas. Still sometimes I just wanted a single pound to try, and it was nice for that.

[FrankJD]

Black powder won't fix a fouled nipple or fouled patent breech plug's ante chamber (worthless breech plugs ever), but it sure is a better way to go For Me than any of that smokeless substitute crap.

Also, IME real BP, no matter the brand, has always been easier for fouling control and end-of-session cleanup. YMMV.

The price of all powders (and primers) has just about doubled, even lots more so if bought mail order with shipping, hazmat, and tax fees added.

Buying 25lb lots will drop the total cost, so a group buy via a club or an org or just a buncha buds is the better way to go.

It is what it is and it's only gonna get worse ....

[shortlegs]

MY double barrel percussion shotgun doesnt like substitute powders but is fine with real black powder. Try the real stuff and see how it works.

[Sasquatch-1]

I don't have a bore scope. If real black doesn't "fix" the condition, I'll investigate further.

If you have one of the smart phone/handheld computer (I still use a flip phone) you can get a bore scope on Amazon for under $10.00 for the really cheap ones and between $30.00 and $40.00 for one of what should be a better quality.

[T-Bird]

Thanks Mega. You read more carefully than some. I haven't done that powder under the nipple test, don't guess I realized it goes there. I thought it stayed in the chamber and the spark went around the corner.:veryconfu . I'll test that. Yes, I'm using CCI #11 mag primers. For some reason, the GM snail, which is otherwise identical to the T/C snail, has no clean out screw. When I clean, I run water down the barrel with the nipple off (after vigorously pumping a jag/patch up and down the barrel with the breech in a bucket of hot soapy water) from the tub faucet and water flows freely altho I haven't really thought to compare the flow with the original barrel's flow.

[fastdadio]

I bought a new Invest Arms .58cal Hawken back in the late 80's. From day 1, it had a slight delayed ignition using #11 caps. It always went bang, but it was a noticeable millisecond delay. I tried a few of the simple things first, cleaning, different caps and powder brands. Nothing really worked, so I bought a musket cap nipple and some musket caps, and Bob's yer Uncle! instant ignition with any powder type, light loads, heavy loads, wet weather, it doesn't matter.
You might consider giving them a try. Another side advantage is that they are easier to handle, especially with gloves or cold fingers.

[T-Bird]

thanks fast. I agree, musket caps are easier to handle. I use mag #11 they are supposed to put out as much fire as musket caps from what I've read. Don't know if I could find any right now anyway.

[Jackrabbit1957]

That's a bit odd that there's no clean out screw. If it were mine I would drill and tap it for one.

[waksupi]

That's a bit odd that there's no clean out screw. If it were mine I would drill and tap it for one.

Those are not clean out screws, and are not intended to be removed.

[T-Bird]

Waksupi, I called it a "clean out screw" because I thought that was what it was. I've heard others call it that, but never found the need to remove it to "clean out" anything. What is it? If it's not to be removed, why is it there? Or not there in this case.

[fastdadio]

Those are not clean out screws, and are not intended to be removed.

Now you tell me. I have 3 side lock muzzle loaders that have them. I remove them every time I clean and punch the hole with a bristle type pipe cleaner. Been doing it for 40 years.

[Sasquatch-1]

I need some clarification. When you are talking about the cleanout area, are you talking about the drum that the nipple screws into?

[T-Bird]

These screws we're talking about, are on the side of the drum/snail that the nipple screws into. My GM drop in doesn't have one

[Sasquatch-1]

I thought that was what you were talking about. I just never heard it referred to that way.

[Woodnbow]

I haven't shot real black powder since the early '70's. I had a cap and ball revolver that I shot a lot of it in. When I was older and bought my first bp rifle, the store that I got my bp from had closed, and the LGS didn't carry real black. Pyrodex was the choice so I went with it and have had no problems......until now. I bought a drop in Green Mountain 54 cal slow twist barrel for my T/C Hawken and it will give fairly frequent hang fires with both 777 and Pyrodex. I was thinking that if I go to real black powder, these will probably stop. I know I'm gonna have to get it online but didn't know where was the best place. I've seen it at Powder Valley. I knew that y'all would know the best (cheapest) place.

Like many others, I much prefer black powder over substitutes. If that’s what you can get however, it will work just fine in the TC breech as well as the GM, Rice, or other plugs. I’ve been using only nipples with an orifice over .028” (Hotshot is one) successfully along with Remington #11 caps. Clean well (haven’t pulled a “clean out” screw in many years) and protect your bore with Eezox or Frog Lube, both of those will dry to a film and do not foul powder. A solid whack on the side of the rifle after your powder is dropped and before the bullet is seated helps to settle powder under the cone. Fires every time.

[waksupi]

Waksupi, I called it a "clean out screw" because I thought that was what it was. I've heard others call it that, but never found the need to remove it to "clean out" anything. What is it? If it's not to be removed, why is it there? Or not there in this case.

They are a manufacturing expedient used when they put the breechplug in

[fastdadio]

They are a manufacturing expedient used when they put the breechplug in

In what way? I can't see how that drilled and tapped hole would expedite any manufacturing process. It takes time and adds another process.

[FrankJD]

In what way? I can't see how that drilled and tapped hole would expedite any manufacturing process. It takes time and adds another process.

It's a blow out "safety" vent that will do just that if the load is either too much or incorrect.

[T-Bird]

WOW!.....ok Learn sump'in every day! Talk about thread drift!

[megasupermagnum]

It's a blow out "safety" vent that will do just that if the load is either too much or incorrect.

I can say with certainty that is NOT what it is. Whatever it's true purpose, it can be removed easily, and does allow a pipe cleaner in easily. I don't remove mine for normal cleaning. It doesn't matter though since apparently Green Mountain barrels don't have them.

[FrankJD]

I can say with certainty that is NOT what it is. Whatever it's true purpose, it can be removed easily, and does allow a pipe cleaner in easily. I don't remove mine for normal cleaning. It doesn't matter though since apparently Green Mountain barrels don't have them.

Maybe, maybe not.

I found a reference indicating that in caplocks, the vent hole was intended to relieve the back pressure of a sealed breech for safety reasons - that online site is not longer. https://web.archive.org/web/20170310070911/http://www.blackpowder411.com/builder/tips-tools-with-fred-stutzenberger-part-20/

Within the text of the article it states ...

"For the caplock shooters, I should mention that James Purdey, one of the most famous of the British gunmakers, also put platinum vents into his percussion breeches (Fig. 1) to relieve back pressure. In the early percussion days, it was feared that a completely sealed breech would be under too much pressure for safety. A platinum vent was inserted in the breech under the nipple to relieve pressure. Observe the shape of the vent hole that was designed to be removed with a turnscrew. "

There is also further reference that "The vent hole on most percussion guns and rifles was never meant has a safety blow out device, the main reason for these were to act has air vent for faster ignition with the ignition of the cap, on the later guns they were nearly all platinum but the early ones were screwed in iron ones. The most early ones were patent by Samuel Nock."

Don't much matter to me, I prefer flint locks to cap locks. ;)

[megasupermagnum]

@FrankJD, the problem is you are inferring an early 1800's advertisement for an extra flash hole on a shotgun can be used as evidence why Thompson Center would put a screw into their breech plug. That's besides the fact one is a hole, and the other is a screw.

Again, that screw in the TC breech plug is not for blow off or any kind of safety reasons.

[T-Bird]

Well, that's all great, I'm gonna call it a clean out screw, that I've never used. I don't care that my drop in GM barrel doesn't have one. Back (somewhat) to the original purpose of this thread. I went to the range today and took the 1/2 lb of Goex 2F that a friend gave me probably 20 yrs ago. Got some cleaning patches, Ballistol/H2O mix, proceeded to go "old school". I shot, swabbed, then reloaded, shot again etc. I had nothing but excellent ignition, and as far as accuracy, at 50 yds with 70 gr, 5 shots looked like 2 ragged holes about 1/2 in apart. I can't even shoot that well I didn't think. Shot 80 gr for 2 shots, and they were close but slightly higher than the previous shots. But nothing but hard, positive ignition on all 7 shots. Nothing but real black will go in this gun from now on. I had more fouling but was removed easily.

[Dapaki]

You can also get BP at addictedtoblackpowder.com and acepyro.com/Shop/Supplies#blackpowder.

[Sasquatch-1]

Glad you were able to solve it that easily.

[T-Bird]

Me too! Every now and then even a blind hog can find an acorn.

[T-Bird]

One additional question. Looks like the most available is Scheutzen due to a fire at the Goex Plant. Should I wait for Goex or is Scheutzen ok?

[Sasquatch-1]

Scheutzen is a good powder.

[T-Bird]

OK, thank's

[megasupermagnum]

I've never tried Schutzen, but I've not heard too many bad things about it. I don't think we currently have a "bad" blackpowder imported into the USA. There are some in the world that are junk, but I've only heard of them from second hand experience, seemingly mostly in South America. Elephant brand comes to mind.

[waksupi]

I've never tried Schutzen, but I've not heard too many bad things about it. I don't think we currently have a "bad" blackpowder imported into the USA. There are some in the world that are junk, but I've only heard of them from second hand experience, seemingly mostly in South America. Elephant brand comes to mind.

I used to shoot Elephant quite a bit, went through a few cases of it. I did get one bad lot. I contacted Petrochemical, and they sent me a new full case. The bad stuff got shot up in the local cannons. During the same time period, GOEX also had a bad lot of powder out.

[FrankJD]

I used to shoot Elephant quite a bit, went through a few cases of it. I did get one bad lot. I contacted Petrochemical, and they sent me a new full case. The bad stuff got shot up in the local cannons. During the same time period, GOEX also had a bad lot of powder out.

A few years back, some of us also had a bad case (25#) of Swiss.

[Static line]

Scheutzen is just fine.

[T-Bird]

ordered 5# of FF from Grafs, that's what their brand is, the fine print says. Just missed it being on sale:roll:

[T-Bird]

as it turns out, I found the 1/2 lb of 3F the same friend gave me 20 yrs ago. I thought I remembered it being Goex but it was Elephant. He gave it to me in 2002 and had had it "some years" he said. I've seen VERY mixed reviews on Elephant so I don't know if I have 1/2 lb of useable powder or 1/2 lb of junk. We'll see

[Sasquatch-1]

as it turns out, I found the 1/2 lb of 3F the same friend gave me 20 yrs ago. I thought I remembered it being Goex but it was Elephant. He gave it to me in 2002 and had had it "some years" he said. I've seen VERY mixed reviews on Elephant so I don't know if I have 1/2 lb of useable powder or 1/2 lb of junk. We'll see

Try about 25 grains down the pipe with nothing but a patch over top. If it goes bang, try it with a ball. But, make sure you have a good way to remove the ball if it doesn't.

[megasupermagnum]

as it turns out, I found the 1/2 lb of 3F the same friend gave me 20 yrs ago. I thought I remembered it being Goex but it was Elephant. He gave it to me in 2002 and had had it "some years" he said. I've seen VERY mixed reviews on Elephant so I don't know if I have 1/2 lb of useable powder or 1/2 lb of junk. We'll see

I could be completely wrong on Elephant, I just threw out a name that I remembered. It will almost certainly go bang, but the bad reports of whatever brand it was, I remember it was super underpowered and dirty as heck. Something like 100gr of the stuff only did 800 fps in a 50 caliber rifle.

[T-Bird]

Yeah, I took it to the range yesterday, it's 3F so I was gonna try it in my 32. It went bang just fine, but there was a lot more fouling than Goex and in a 32, it's a no go. I'll try to burn it up on cans with my 54 pistol. Unless I decide to use it on tomatoes

[Sasquatch-1]

so I was gonna try it in my 32. It went bang just fine, but there was a lot more fouling than Goex and in a 32, it's a no go.

Just make some alcohol-soaked patches and swab the barrel between shots. As long as you are not in the field this will work well. I use alcohol because it dries very quickly in a hot barrel.

[T-Bird]

I'll try that