guns as an investment

[Battis]

Opinions on guns as an investment?
I know, alot depends on what you pay for a firearm, the type of firearm - handgun, rifle, antique, etc.
I still think guns are a good investment. The problem is that you have to be willing to sell or trade them at some point.

[Misery-Whip]

And not fire them....thats where Id have trouble.

[Hannibal]

Some people seem to do well buying and selling firearms for profit. However, with only rare exceptions I've never been that fortunate. I only buy things that I want and plan to keep for personal use and enjoyment.

YMMV.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

FFL, taxes, booth fees, consignment, and/or shipping/insurance fees can really eat into profits. I’ve never done it, but I’ve thought about buying up cheap ARs, milsurps, or police trade ins then selling them when the market goes nuts, but probably not worth the hassle. I’d rather spend my time shooting. At worst, a solid mainstream gun usually keeps up with inflation. The market is a bit screwed up at the moment, but usually I can buy a decent used gun, shoot it for a few years, then sell it for what I have in it or a little more. There’s no way I’d buy a collector grade gun, put it in the safe with the hope of selling it 5-10+ years down the road at a profit.

[Mr Peabody]

Except for a very few well known firearms, I think your fooling yourself.

[Electrod47]

When I was younger to acquire a new gun always meant something had to go down the road to facilitate that. Since I was in a hurry, the return was never what my original cost was. Hence, I never looked at that as a positive. Generally speaking the type of individuals I have encountered through the years making an obvious profit on gun trading rank right up there with pawn shops and loan sharks. People I would walk across the street to avoid. Think Gunbroker, necessary evil I guess but are they your friend?

[Shawlerbrook]

A lot depends on the country’s economic and legislative situation.Most Marlins, Winchester’s, many milsurps, all used, have at least doubled in the last 10-20 years. Not many investments have done that good. I still say buy what you like to own and shoot, buy it at a fair price, take care of it and 9 out of 10 times you will realize a profit if and when you decide to sell. That said, except back in the 90’s when I had an ffl, I rarely sell a gun.

[dverna]

They are one of the worst investments you can make. I am selling off much of the stuff acquired over decades of collecting. I am making a "profit" but not nearly as much as if I had purchased an index stock fund.

Someone will post about the $35 M1 carbine they bought in 1960 that is worth $2000 now. Invested in the S&P that $35 would be worth over $4500 in 2022. Here is the link:

https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1960?amount=35&endYear=2022

Returns on stuff like M98's, SMLE's, Mosins etc etc are even worse.

Buy guns to "scratch an itch", play with, defend your life, hunt with and/or compete with. You will not lose anything and may make a bit of money on it. It is a great hobby, but it is not a great investment for the average Joe/Jane. Folks who got in early on full auto weapons may have a much better result wrt their investments. And that could happen again if say AR's, HC magazines, etc are legislated under NFA restrictions.

BTW, if you have enough guns to be an "investment" you will need to also factor in the cost to insure them.

[schutzen-jager]

not purchased as an investment but i recently started disposing of my 66+ years accumulation - been selling mostly to ffl member of my collectors association - 15 sold so far + every one at a large profit - best one is $100.00 luger that brought $2,000.00 - worst was $99.00 Nagant revolver that brought $240.00 - willed some tp grandson, but wife + daughters show limited interest in them - better return than my investments + ira - very nice to have derived decades of pleasure from them + now realizing profit is a win win situation -

[Big Tom]

For me, it is an investment into having fun, not into making money. With that approach, every investment is well worth the money...

[Battis]

I probably should have used a better word than "investment." I don't expect to get rich on any guns that I've bought, though some are worth alot more than what I paid. One of the criteria that I have for buying a gun is that I have to be able to shoot it, which I do. Next, I want to be able to get at least what I paid for the gun at any point in the future, which means getting a good deal in the beginning. The problem is that I don't plan on selling or trading any that I now have.
I think I've overused the "investment" angle when looking at another gun - the wife is on to me.

[atr]

I don't think buy firearms is a good investment strategy.
You might get lucky and find a "gem" that translates into a good profit.
A 401 or similar plan is a better option.

[huntinlever]

I'd love to find a way to call them that, but speaking personally that would be self-delusion, rationalization. I don't have the means to move in truly high end heirloom vintage guns, so guns are a personal choice, and I don't expect any kind of investment value. As folks say above, so many better ways to invest.

[huntinlever]

I probably should have used a better word than "investment." I don't expect to get rich on any guns that I've bought, though some are worth alot more than what I paid. One of the criteria that I have for buying a gun is that I have to be able to shoot it, which I do. Next, I want to be able to get at least what I paid for the gun at any point in the future, which means getting a good deal in the beginning. The problem is that I don't plan on selling or trading any that I now have.
I think I've overused the "investment" angle when looking at another gun - the wife is on to me.

Missed this post, sorry Battis. Lol, yep, bingo. My calling it "investment" would be our particular club's code for "honey, but you have to understand, this one is an investment."

I've never sold a gun for a profit, but that's probably on me. I do know I've regretted selling just about any gun I've sold.

[waksupi]

They used to be a good investment. The milsurps we could buy for under $50 a few years ago are selling for hundreds of dollars now.

[schutzen-jager]

I don't think buy firearms is a good investment strategy.
You might get lucky and find a "gem" that translates into a good profit.
A 401 or similar plan is a better option.

my experience has been different - see post #9 -

[huntinlever]

They used to be a good investment. The milsurps we could buy for under $50 a few years ago are selling for hundreds of dollars now.

Right, I'd forgotten. I regret not getting in on the CMP several years ago.

[Hondolane]

I agree that type and model of a gun has the biggest factor in a sale and a sale that makes a profit. I bought a carbine for $800.00 and sold it a few years down the road for $2400.00. That was watching what someone was wanting and willing to pay for. When I saw a gentleman who just had to have the carbine I then sold it, otherwise I wouldn't have made as much. Sold other rifles in the same manner and have made very good profits on all.

[huntinlever]

not purchased as an investment but i recently started disposing of my 66+ years accumulation - been selling mostly to ffl member of my collectors association - 15 sold so far + every one at a large profit - best one is $100.00 luger that brought $2,000.00 - worst was $99.00 Nagant revolver that brought $240.00 - willed some tp grandson, but wife + daughters show limited interest in them - better return than my investments + ira - very nice to have derived decades of pleasure from them + now realizing profit is a win win situation -

Congratulations. And that's quite a legacy for your grandson.

[Shawlerbrook]

Guns are more like your house. You buy it to live in and enjoy and in the end it’s worth more than you paid for it. Now compare that with buying a car,boat, compound or cross bow. You pay thousands and in 10-20 years it’s worthless. I agree with the above, an investment in fun that in the end you will get your money + back. That’s why I only buy guns I will use.

[Winger Ed.]

About the only way to make decent money on guns is to first buy them like a (real) pawn shop does.

You need a strong stomach for doing it, but you have to have a seller at their worst/lowest point in life,
then pay them about 10 cents on the dollar for their guns.

Example:
Back when a new S&W 586 sold for a little under $400. I watched a pawn broker 'negotiate' with a fella
selling one. The pawn broker offered $35., and was going to let the guy walk out if he insisted on $40.
I left and watched from across the street, a few minutes later- the guy came outside without it.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Wow, in these parts the going rate seems to be around $.50 on the dollar.


About the only way to make decent money on guns is to first buy them like a (real) pawn shop does.

You need a strong stomach for doing it, but you have to have a seller at their worst/lowest point in life,
then pay them about 10 cents on the dollar for their guns.

Example:
Back when a new S&W 586 sold for a little under $400. I watched a pawn broker 'negotiate' with a fella
selling one. The pawn broker offered $35., and was going to let the guy walk out if he insisted on $40.
I left and watched from across the street, a few minutes later- the guy came outside without it.

[JoeJames]

I bought quite a few back in the 80's and 90's, not as an investment though. I just wanted them. Lately I have been thinning the herd quite a bit. I will not go into detail what I paid for some like a Gustlofwerk KKW 22, a BNZ43 98K, and an old P-38 that I had no use for, but I did pretty well. I reckon it comes down to whether you'd like to have it at the time or not; not as an investment.

[Battis]

I've done well with antiques, mainly because the stores don't always know what they have. Ex: a store was selling what they called a "pre-Italian copy of a Whitney Navy." Well, the only company making Whitneys before the Italians was Whitney. I bought it for a repro price, and, sure enough, it's an original. It's happened a few times where the stores (more than one) don't know what they're selling.
I have an antique on hold and I explained to my wife last night that it's another "investment." The store knows what it has but they're still selling it for much less than it's worth. "Yeah, OK, sure..." After 43 years, the jig is up.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I've done well with antiques, mainly because the stores don't always know what they have. Ex: a store was selling what they called a "pre-Italian copy of a Whitney Navy." Well, the only company making Whitneys before the Italians was Whitney. I bought it for a repro price, and, sure enough, it's an original. It's happened a few times where the stores (more than one) don't know what they're selling.
I have an antique on hold and I explained to my wife last night that it's another "investment." The store knows what it has but they're still selling it for much less than it's worth. "Yeah, OK, sure..." After 43 years, the jig is up.

When someone says “investing”, my mind automatically jumps to long term investments. The word “flipping” comes to mind for short term investments. No doubt better knowledge than the seller can result in a profitable enterprise. If you enjoy it and aren’t making decisions that could put your family on the street, by all means, go for it!

[trebor44]

Baseball cards or comic books are a better option!

[Beerd]

buy high, sell low.
that's my motto.
..

[Rapier]

Good land in a good location is a much better investment, in my experience. Not all land is good.

[huntinlever]

buy high, sell low.
that's my motto.
..

Yeah, my talent.

[ascast]

I'm glad to see the consensus is as I see it -not such a good idea. I have a bunch of closet queens that sell quickly, but the money would have been better off in a Roth or similar.

[Hannibal]

Buying a firearm from someone you don't know is an even bigger risk. If it turns out to be stolen or something used in a crime then you've got a lot of explaining to do and you'll loose the firearm, best case situation.

That's definitely not a risk I'm interested in taking.

[schutzen-jager]

i have been in many diversified IRA's + blue chip investments + none have come even close to what my recent results in selling my accumulations - .

[unclemikeinct]

A lot of good opinions. First rule of biz. Money is really made buying the best deal. So look for bargains. The better you buy, the more profit you can sell. uncle mike

[Hannibal]

i have been in many diversified IRA's + blue chip investments + none have come even close to what my recent results in selling my accumulations - .

Does that include inflation adjustments? If you'd invested the same amount at the same time in stock market investments you're still ahead?

It's not impossible to pull off, but it is rare. And the investment situation today is significantly different than it was even 2 years ago. I'd state the obvious reasons why but don't want this turning political and going to The Pit.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I think that guns can be an excellent investment. Just spend a couple of hours on Gunbroker.com seeing what they're selling for. WW II German K98k rifles that guys maybe paid $45 for "back in the day" are going for $1,100. Lee Enfields that once cost $45 are easily going for $450 (and up!). Many more examples...but look at them for yourself. All guns seem to have gone up dramatically. Even bolt action shotguns that sold for $85 new are going for $200 used. But, in many cases, it took 50 years for the investment to mature.

However, one should define "investment", and exactly what is expected. Years ago I read an article about the cost comparison of a good suit of clothing and a Colt SAA. I think originally, back in 1873, the Colt cost something like $17.50 and a new suit was about the same. The article went on with the value comparison to pre-WW II, post WW II, the 1960s, and it might even hold true today. That would be an ordinary new suit (not Wayne LaPierre's suits!) and a Colt Gen. 3 SAA. Maybe about $2k? The takeaway, though, is that the values were roughly even. But that is just keeping up with inflation, and some would say that an investment has to "make money". Maybe the old, original SAA in pristine condition would make money. Condition is always a lot. People that buy and set aside gold and silver are preserving their wealth relative to the economy's inflation (or deflation--then the price drops), but aren't really making money unless you're ignoring the inflated cost of everything else and just looking at the sale price dollar amount. While that silver dollar was going from $19 to $23 everything else went up.

I agree that land can or can not be a good investment. If you think that someday they'll widen the highway and have to buy yours, or that a residential subdivision or shopping center will be built there, then it's a good investment. If it's farm land and you're a farmer it might be a good investment. If it's 30 acres out in the woods, probably not unless it has value in timber.

Myself, I've found guns to be a good investment, but I acquired many of them over a lengthy lifetime, and things I paid $35 for are now worth $700. Again, though, relative to the economy. After all, I used to pay $0.35 per gallon for gasoline back in 1964.

DG

[GOPHER SLAYER]

The problem with buying guns, whether as an investment or to use is the fact that tastes change. I have several pistols that I could sell for a big profit, but the single shot rifles are another matter. I have nineteen single shot rifles I bought when BPCR shooting was going strong. Today I couldn't get what I paid for them. Bolt action, good luck. The younguns only want the black guns. Some gun shops have nothing else.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

i have been in many diversified IRA's + blue chip investments + none have come even close to what my recent results in selling my accumulations - .

Over that last 8 years, gun prices on Mil surps, as well as, many "middle value" civilian guns have just gone crazy. I sold the major portion of my gun collection in 2015 at a auction, and pretty much broke even...many of those guns were in my possession for 20+ years. If I would have had the foresight to hang on to those guns until now, I could have doubled my money, no doubt. We are living in some unique times, for sure.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Opinions on guns as an investment?
I know, alot depends on what you pay for a firearm, the type of firearm - handgun, rifle, antique, etc.
I still think guns are a good investment. The problem is that you have to be willing to sell or trade them at some point.
Today, Prices are high, will they go higher? Hard to tell?
I think it would be quite risky to be buying guns today for an investment.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

About the only way to make decent money on guns is to first buy them like a (real) pawn shop does.

You need a strong stomach for doing it, but you have to have a seller at their worst/lowest point in life,
then pay them about 10 cents on the dollar for their guns.

Example:
Back when a new S&W 586 sold for a little under $400. I watched a pawn broker 'negotiate' with a fella
selling one. The pawn broker offered $35., and was going to let the guy walk out if he insisted on $40.
I left and watched from across the street, a few minutes later- the guy came outside without it.

About 25 years ago, I'm at the LGS and a fella comes in with 4 guns he wanted to sell. He says he needs $90 to pay a utility bill, but only wanted to part with one gun and asked the shop owner which gun could get him $90. The shop owner offers $90 for all four. My personal opinion was that each gun (they were all used) had a gunshow value of around $200 each. One of them was a Thompson Seneca 45 cal ML, and that one caught my eye. I stood nearby quietly. After the fella and the shop owner talked quite a while the fella left with the 4 guns and zero dollars. I hustled outside and caught up to the fella, and asked about the ML, he said I could have it for $90. Two people walked away happy. If the shop owner seen us make the transaction, I suspect he was PO'd, but he never commented about it? I knew him quite well, back then, I was in his shop once a week.
BTW, I still have that Seneca ;)

[schutzen-jager]

Does that include inflation adjustments? If you'd invested the same amount at the same time in stock market investments you're still ahead?

It's not impossible to pull off, but it is rare. And the investment situation today is significantly different than it was even 2 years ago. I'd state the obvious reasons why but don't want this turning political and going to The Pit.

including all inflation adjustments i have not had any other investments including my house increase by 50 to 100 percent over the years like the profits i have received lately + i never acquired them as an investment -

[Hannibal]

including all inflation adjustments i have not had any other investments including my house increase by 50 to 100 times over the years like the profits i have received lately + i never acquired them as an investment -

Well then congratulations are in order because you have beaten the odds.

I would be very cautious about thinking that's sustainable though. You yourself said you didn't buy those things as an investment, you just are in position to take advantage of an unpredictable and unusual set of circumstances.

Nevertheless, I'm happy for you and glad it turned out in your favor.

[schutzen-jager]

Well then congratulations are in order because you have beaten the odds.

I would be very cautious about thinking that's sustainable though. You yourself said you didn't buy those things as an investment, you just are in position to take advantage of an unpredictable and unusual set of circumstances.

Nevertheless, I'm happy for you and glad it turned out in your favor.

in my case it would be very sustainable - most of my accumulations were acquired when lugers, mausers, colts, S&W, + most milsurps sold for less than $50.00 -

[15meter]

And if you are not including the potential for a government ban and ordered destruction or surrender of firearms you are being short sighted. Semi-auto of any stripe may not survive for another 20 years.

Bolt actions with a removable magazine will be next. Single shots and doubles will last the longest.

If we keep getting the crazies shooting up everything in sight, I don't see how it can not happen.

Old dude shooting up other old people scares the bejeebies out of people, look up the California dance hall shooting.

All the speeches about people kill, guns don't, is lost in that kind of crazy. Continued shootings in South Chicago is written off as not in my backyard, not my problem.

When it comes to the 'burbs, the panic is going to set in.

I would never consider any of my firearms as an investment that would fund my old age.

And the speech about we have the second amendment is getting thinner. I believe every session of congress a bill is introduced to repeal the 2nd. It goes nowhere. Shoot up enough grandma's and grampa's and it will.

And I don't have a clue on how to stop that kind of insanity.

We used to have a whole group of state run mental hospitals in the state of Michigan. All are closed now. The loony left cheered their closing because "you cant incarcerate them, mental illness is not a crime!". The just as loony right cheered their closing because they were too cheap to pay for their care. Now those people are on the street.

And to use one of my most hated cliches, it is what it is.

[farmbif]

I think you would be better off buying stock in a gun company than buying individual guns as an investment unless you happen to come across a deal where a seller has no idea of what he has or someone is desperate for money. plus with selling a firearm these days there are fees associated with selling most often be it percentage charged by auction places to transfer fees with an ffl shipper.

[Gewehr-Guy]

I consider the gun hobby as the best vice one can participate in, drinking to excess is expensive and hard on your health, finances, and marriage. Experiencing relations with wild women doesn't pay well either, golf, motorcycles, fancy fishing boats, aircraft, and luxury vacations are all fun and exiting , but will leave you with considerably less money than you started with. So I will just keep on "investing " in guns, and hope I can get back 90% of what I spent on them, the real returns on investment is the fun I've had.

[dverna]

I think that guns can be an excellent investment. Just spend a couple of hours on Gunbroker.com seeing what they're selling for. WW II German K98k rifles that guys maybe paid $45 for "back in the day" are going for $1,100. Lee Enfields that once cost $45 are easily going for $450 (and up!). Many more examples.

DG

The last time I saw Mauser 98's at $45 was about 1980...is that about right?

$45 invested in the S&P 500 would be worth $4700 today. Still think $1100 is a good return?

I remember SMLE's for $15 in 1968. That $15 in 1968 would have returned $4500 in the market. SMLE's are currently going for 10% of that.

It is a tough nut for gun people to swallow. All the money tied up in stuff that could have been invested better. HELL....I am living it!!! I have over 30 guns to get rid of and NONE will yield a better return than if I had bought an index fund. Many have given my hours of pleasure. They were a gateway to meeting a bunch of great people and some of the best shooters in the world. Hard to place a value on that.

But as investments, the vast majority of guns suck and will continue to suck until the crazies restrict them or ban them. Once banned, the black market should offer an excellent return if someone is skilled and lucky enough to play that game while staying out of jail.

Yes, the stock market could crash and then what? I suppose if some people are unaffected they may have money to buy guns...most will not. Heck many folks cannot afford $100 primers right now. Might be hard to sell guns and break even if the economy tanks.

We may never have a Justin Trudeau, and a Democrat controlled House and Senate, and a packed SCOTUS but what if (when) we do? What will happen to our "gun investments" then?

[compass will]

I buy them as an investment, and my dividend is the time and relaxation I get when I spend enjoying them from casting to reloading, to shooting them. Its a great investment after my fast paced job, but that job helps me afford them :)

Oh, and its nice to tell the other half that when it comes time to sell them, they they will be worth near as much as I paid for them, so you can look at this like its just another interest free savings account, and at the loss current investments is bringing, these will loose far less over time.

[Winger Ed.]

I've always looked at buying and owning guns as something I enjoy for a few reasons.
I've bought and sold a few that I made a couple of bucks on, and a couple I've straight up given away.
The idea that they'll retain or increase in value is more of a justification for buying them than being an investment.
I never considered them as an investment any more than I would 'invest' in RC model airplanes, or a vacation.

[Bull]

I could not buy a gun for investment, I will shoot everything I have. It’s too much fun. Come to think about it, I have never sold one.

[TXTad]

I've sold a few in the past year that I am no longer interested in. I did at least as good as or slightly better than keeping up with inflation. I would not call that an investment, just a good place to park money. For that to work, though, I think you need to keep them for at least 10 to 15 years. Anything less than that and they're just a used version of a gun than can still be bought new.

[Bmi48219]

Run of the mill, mass production firearms ‘appreciated’ when everyone and their brother decided they needed one a few years ago. But generally their value is only bumped up because the price of newly produced models keeps increasing.
Limited, out of production models (where they made 10,000 units or less) appreciate more assuming they are desirable for one reason or another and in good condition. Even in this case it’s extremely rare to find something that qualifies as a great investment.
Most of my firearms fall into the limited, out of production category. They may be worth more than what I paid but not so much when the price I paid is adjusted for inflation. Still I bought them because I wanted them, not for potential profits.

[Ed K]

A lot of the guns cited as being profitable are done so after the fact. Like looking back into the stock market with 20 or 30 years of hindsight. Sure some milsurp stuff might be high now but how would you have known? Oversimplifying say a guy buys a bunch of Glock 19s in 1990 and sells them now - how much would he make? Nothing! Some say minty pre-lock S&W revolvers are where it's at. I was at a shop today that had several next to their 2023 equivalents at exactly the same price - barely kept up with inflation. I guess if one picked the right collectibles a guy could do alright but that's no easier than picking stocks.

Me? I was happy just to buy a few million primers in 1992 :kidding:

[sigep1764]

Please dont take this as a brag, a guarantee, or anything like that.

I buy guns like I’ve bought my motorcycles. Find deals in areas where they can be found. I live in a city where sportbikes and sporty naked bikes are popular. I don’t buy them here, I search a couple hours away in the boonies for what I want where the exact opposite is popular and plentiful. Harleys and cruiser style bikes are popular in the boonies here in Missouri. I look for a few months to find what I want in the country and buy low because usually sport bikes are hard to sell in Harley country. Buy it cash, ride it for 25000 miles, sell it for at least 1000 more than I paid for it back here in the city. Buy the deals, use them, then sell for at least a 20% profit. One just has to look and wait and be prepared to jump. Be aware of what sells and what doesn’t. One caveat, sometimes you don’t always get exactly what you want. Doesn’t mean you can’t still make a profit.

[Gator 45/70]

Gun buy back programs is where the real moneys is at, If only the cops wouldn't keep running buyers off?

[Land Owner]

I bought a casting and reloading (hoarder like me) estate. His widow wanted the guns, boxes of ammo, equipment, and components "at the curb, right now", for the Trashmen to take to the dump. Her son, my boss, had the better idea of making money not trash. He asked me to value the gun and shooting related items.

My boss told me he was "pleasantly surprised" that within 3-hours the day he asked, using nothing but his photographs, I valued the whole shooting estate to within $200 of another man's three-week long hands-on estimate, which I had not seen. I got a bright 'Gold Star' that day telling him, "That Sir, is what you pay me to do for our clients every day!" I bought the estate...

After a year of for profit, below retail, face-to-face (mostly), and internet sales, which was seven years ago (and two years before I retired), I still have A LOT of estate stuff to sell, comingled now with my own. I am seriously BURNED OUT in the "retail" selling and shipping of guns, ammo, equipment, and components. What "value" is there in the investment of one's personal time?

I "converted" a hobby into a business and for that I have suffered...

[Wag]

You make your money when you buy. If you buy something and sell it for a profit within the first six or twelve months, THEN, you've made an investment profit. Holding something long-term increases the risk of not making a good return and the longer you hold it, the less likely you'll make a decent return.

I don't keep guns around very long without shooting them. Longest, I think, was around three years but it finally got out to the range for some ammo snacks.

After all is said and done, you really have to keep your eye open for deals. What makes something collectible or investment grade in 20+ years is a tough call.

--Wag--

[georgerkahn]

Opinions on guns as an investment?
I know, alot depends on what you pay for a firearm, the type of firearm - handgun, rifle, antique, etc.
I still think guns are a good investment. The problem is that you have to be willing to sell or trade them at some point.

All I will post is a fairly distant relation of my wife (Kevin) jumped -- as an investment -- to buy three AR platform firearms before they first became ver boten in this state. Then, the law was updated so one may register/keep them, but they are NOT transferable. Now, Keven has three -- new in boxes, unfired "investments"...
Sixty years ago "everyone" wanted guns, and their prices' increasing over time was a guarantee. Now? I do not know the answer... but as volatile as it is, the stock market/mutual funds may give a better return...
geo

[schutzen-jager]

I bought a casting and reloading (hoarder like me) estate. His widow wanted the guns, boxes of ammo, equipment, and components "at the curb, right now", for the Trashmen to take to the dump. Her son, my boss, had the better idea of making money not trash. He asked me to value the gun and shooting related items.

My boss told me he was "pleasantly surprised" that within 3-hours the day he asked, using nothing but his photographs, I valued the whole shooting estate to within $200 of another man's three-week long hands-on estimate, which I had not seen. I got a bright 'Gold Star' that day telling him, "That Sir, is what you pay me to do for our clients every day!" I bought the estate...

After a year of for profit, below retail, face-to-face (mostly), and internet sales, which was seven years ago (and two years before I retired), I still have A LOT of estate stuff to sell, comingled now with my own. I am seriously BURNED OUT in the "retail" selling and shipping of guns, ammo, equipment, and components. What "value" is there in the investment of one's personal time?

I "converted" a hobby into a business and for that I have suffered...

i have found that the simplest no hassle means to be selling to FFL holders from collects associations - i price them at apx. 60 to 75 percent of avg. retail which is much more than i paid for them - no auction, internet, transfer fees, or legal problems when done this way - i have sold both collectible + non collectibles this way - - try your state collectors association for leads -

[Wayne Smith]

No one has mentioned the other end of the issue - liquidity. When I need money I may need it now or within a few months. How easy is it to get the increase from a gun vs. the index fund? Selling a gun is based on finding the buyer who wants it, and that cannot be programed.

[TXTad]

...

After a year of for profit, below retail, face-to-face (mostly), and internet sales, which was seven years ago (and two years before I retired), I still have A LOT of estate stuff to sell, comingled now with my own. I am seriously BURNED OUT in the "retail" selling and shipping of guns, ammo, equipment, and components. What "value" is there in the investment of one's personal time?

I "converted" a hobby into a business and for that I have suffered...

Exactly. I had been avoiding selling my guns that I was no longer was interested in just because the thought of selling them was dreadful.

Then a couple of years ago a new LGS opened up within 1/4 mile of me. They charge a very reasonable commission to sell any reasonable gun you bring them. I'm happy to pay just so I don't have to deal with the hassles of selling them myself. "Unfortunately" I've found several new guns to buy with the proceeds. :grin:

It's still strange to me, though, to see small gun stores with zero reloading supplies. It seems that few new people are getting into reloading, and it's not just because of component shortages.

[lightman]

I have made money guns a few times but if I adjusted for inflation it might not be so much. You probably would do better to catch the market down and invest in an ETF.

I have made some money at the Tulsa Gun Show a few times. I would buy a handgun from someone walking around trying to sell and walk around with it. I always made $50 or $100. One time I did that in 30 minutes or less. Another time I carried it around for 4 hours or more. Buy, Sell, Trade-------Right?

[Shawlerbrook]

There are more profitable ways to invest your money, but none of them are as much fun.

[schutzen-jager]

No one has mentioned the other end of the issue - liquidity. When I need money I may need it now or within a few months. How easy is it to get the increase from a gun vs. the index fund? Selling a gun is based on finding the buyer who wants it, and that cannot be programed.

guns are same as stocks, a lot depends on when purchased + amount paid - would you sell a stock, mutual fund, or annuity when you needed cash if the going price was 75% less than your purchase price ? - i know of many people that have lost their life savings in the past over situations like this - i have never lost any money on even common non collectible firearms over time - + i get the pleasure from owning + using all my accumulations including collectibles -

[kerplode]

Equities and real estate are investments. Guns are a hobby.

I buy guns I want and sell them when I get tired of them. I'm not planning to finance my retirement on Glocks...

I recently read an article in one of the gun rags where the author was lamenting not buying some single action something or other back in the day for $100 or whatever. He went on to say it'd be worth about 10x as much now. After I flushed, I went and looked up the cumulative inflation for that period. Any guesses what it was? Yeah...10x.

Imagine if he had put that $100 into even the most boring of consumer staple stocks...

[JoeJames]

No one has mentioned the other end of the issue - liquidity. When I need money I may need it now or within a few months. How easy is it to get the increase from a gun vs. the index fund? Selling a gun is based on finding the buyer who wants it, and that cannot be programed.Being a pedigreed hill billy whatever firearm I sell goes into my rat hole, separate from anything else; just in case something floats by that I really want. Flashing a few Arkansas credit cards ($100 bills) will get their attention pretty fast!

[jimlj]

I don't think *most* firearms are a good financial investment. If you are buying a gun to stick in the safe for future retirement, there are far better places to invest your money. The gun you bought in 1973 for $50 may be worth $500 today. If you just stuck that gun in the safe and didn't get 50 years worth of enjoyment out of it, you lost money. For $2 in 1973 my buddies and I could pool our money and buy half a tank of gas and cruise all night long. Today that $2 gets you about half a gallon of gas.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I remember one sure fire investment that did not live up to expectations. George Luger brought two pistols to the trials the Army was holding to select a semiautomatic pistol. I think it was 1911. Ater the trials the Army couldn't decide which pistol they wanted so they asked Luger to bring more 45 caliber pistols for more trials. He told them to bugger off. He had the Grman Army to supply as well as all the other countries who wanted the Luger. Our Army adopted the 1911 as we all know. The two 45caliber lugers that used in the trials were left with the Army. One was lost to history, the other one surived in great shape. It came up for auction many years ago. The winning bid was well over forty grand. I read an article about the pistol and the man who bought it. Several years later he put th pistol up for auction and it brought a little over thirty grand. He lost big time on that sure thing.

[ddeck22]

The other issue is scalability. I can buy $1 million in diversified funds pretty easily, putting $1 million into firearms for profit would be difficult. As someone else mentioned, there is a carrying cost (insurance, storage, etc) that eats into profits. Funds have no carrying costs.

Maybe do 5% of your portfolio in guns and if it works out, great, if not, then it isn't the end of the world.

[slim1836]

I bought rifles and pistols I wanted and could get them at a good price. I knew I could make money upon resale. Exception to this is my 2 AR's, however I still may be able to make a little.

My very small 401k sucks, having gone down to the point of maybe cashing in soon and buying something I can make money on. I will not be around to see the 401k make anything substantial, nor will my wife. At our ages, 70 & 63, we can make it to the end.

My coin collection will bring a pretty penny, more than my 401k. Not so much on my stamp collection. Both will bring in much more than I have in them, having collected since the early 60's.

Slim

[schutzen-jager]

The other issue is scalability. I can buy $1 million in diversified funds pretty easily, putting $1 million into firearms for profit would be difficult. As someone else mentioned, there is a carrying cost (insurance, storage, etc) that eats into profits. Funds have no carrying costs.

Maybe do 5% of your portfolio in guns and if it works out, great, if not, then it isn't the end of the world.

happened here + in several other countries, a few times when all stock certificates were worthless except for stating fires, but firearms + other physical commodities had value + increasing demand not based on collector value -

[Ed K]

I bought rifles and pistols I wanted and could get them at a good price. I knew I could make money upon resale. Exception to this is my 2 AR's, however I still may be able to make a little.

My very 401k sucks, having gone down to the point of maybe cashing in soon and buying something I can make money on. I will not be around to see the 401k make anything substantial, nor will my wife. At our ages, 70 & 63, we can make it to the end.

My coin collection will bring a pretty penny, more than my 401k. Not so much on my stamp collection. Both will bring in much more than I have in them, having collected since the early 60's.

Slim

Nasty tax rate on collectibles.

[Land Owner]

i have found that the simplest no hassle means to be selling to FFL holders from collects associations - i price them at apx. 60 to 75 percent of avg. retail which is much more than i paid for them - no auction, internet, transfer fees, or legal problems when done this way - i have sold both collectible + non collectibles this way - - try your state collectors association for leads -

Yes, some through their FFL. Yes, 60-75 percent of avg. retail. Yes, more than I paid. REALLY GOOD DEALS. No auctions. No transfer fees. No legal problems. Both collectables and non-. Kept paperwork on buyers and guns as receipt for sale. Sold guns mostly to current State CCW Permit Holders, face-to-face. Made a good bit of money but the effort sucked the fun out of the hobby. It has taken years to get over the burn.

IDK about a State Collector Assn.

[FISH4BUGS]

Opinions on guns as an investment?
I know, alot depends on what you pay for a firearm, the type of firearm - handgun, rifle, antique, etc.
I still think guns are a good investment. The problem is that you have to be willing to sell or trade them at some point.

YMMV, but I collect early High Standards, Colts, S&W's, pristine doubles, and anything else that catches my eye. There are 3 things to buy: condition, condition and condition.
I won't pay retail plus unless i REALLY want it....and I think that happened only once.
If you know the value of good collectibles, you can occasionally get a decent deal. When you turn them over, you get your money back and a profit.
I was lucky. My NFA stuff was bought in the late 70's and early 80's. I sold almost all my collection for a down payment on a house. I really struggled with that one because i could never afford to replace them. So I asked myself, which do I want more - a house of the guns? The rational brain said the house, of course.
Some have been very good investments. I don't think they are a good investment for strictly the return, because you get to use them while you own them. I shoot everything except two guns. These are NIB 1931 made H&R Sportsman and a NIB 1948 made High Standard HD Military.
You may love your guns but they don't love you back. They represent the pleasure of owning them, but if something better comes along and we can make a deal.....well....bye!

[Wag]

Investing in physical assets is always problematic. Art, precious metals, firearms, baseball cards, cars.... You name it. You really do have to be an expert or else you're going to waste a lot of money at the time of acquisition, waste money on insuring and protecting the asset because you incorrectly believe that it will rise in value, etc. etc. If you lose everything in a fire or theft, good luck getting your insurance company to cover the loss for an amount that you believe to be fair and equitable. My biggest fear of something like that is that such things get stolen from you or from your heirs, most likely by other family members.

Stocks and bonds and other negotiable instruments, real estate, etc. are more marketable and, therefore, have more potential appreciation capability. They can lose, too, but if you're careful, most of them will rise again in fairly short order. Some of these assets will provide a steady, reliable income stream as well.

--Wag--

[375supermag]

Hi...
Never considered the guns I bought as investments. They were bought for specific uses and used a lot.
Only ever sold a few(because of a divorce) and most probably lost money although I no longer recall the prices paid or what I got for them when I sold them.

I do know that the firearms I own are never going to be sold. My son already thinks of them as his and he will inherit them

[shooterg]

Can't shoot a 401/457, stock or bond (and I do have 'em). From what I've seen of auction prices my wife will do just fine when she auctions my stuff - she'll probably be pleasantly surprised at how much more the "arsenal" is worth than what she thinks I had in 'em . Me, I'll be on my cloud watching her at her new beach house remembering how much fun I had with the stash and her !

[TyGuy]

I don’t consider my guns to be a legitimate retirement investment but they are my primary hobby. I have so many friends who spend all their extra money (and then some…) on cars that lose their interest every year or so. It’s sickening to think of how much they sink into these things and then either sell at a huge loss to buy the next one or find themselves on the phone with insurance and the car on a rollback. Don’t get me started on the people who are constantly buying new “hip” wardrobes. Some people are great at wasting money. I work with a guy who is constantly changing hobbies. He buys and sells boats and ATVs constantly at a loss. Now he’s into RC cars and dumps all his money into upgrades and repairs. Next month he’ll probably sell it all for next to nothing to get into model airplanes.

I feel like my guns are a way to enjoy today and eventually get something back when I or Wifey decide it’s time to sell. They rarely go down in value and even if they don’t keep up with inflation it’s still a back up reserve that can be sold or traded at a moment’s notice. In the meantime they put a smile on my face and keep me away from other ways of burning my paychecks.

I’m really surprised transferable MGs haven’t been mentioned. That is one of the only real investments I see in this hobby. If you actually shoot them the cost of feeding them will really eat into any gains they make thought! But then again, what is the price tag on pasting a big goofy grin on your face? Haha

[FISH4BUGS]

I’m really surprised transferable MGs haven’t been mentioned. That is one of the only real investments I see in this hobby. If you actually shoot them the cost of feeding them will really eat into any gains they make thought! But then again, what is the price tag on pasting a big goofy grin on your face? Haha

Actually my (former) NFA collection DID turn into a great investment, although it wasn't what made me buy them. I just thought they were cool as all get out.
I started buying in the late 70's and early 80's when the guns were cheap and not many people really were into NFA items. When I sold them, they benefitted from the run up in prices way past the ban post 86.
One of the reasons I started on this board was because I learned you CAN shoot cast in full auto subguns. I needed to learn all i could about that. No they are not cheap to feed but a little discipline goes a long way. Here is one example: never load 10 magazines before going to the range. Load one mag at a time at the range. Ammo consumption is lower that way.
....and yes, the grin is still there after 45+ years.

[HATCH]

I wouldn't purchase a firearm as a investment.
With that said, I am sitting on $50K in firearms that cost me 1/3 that cost or less.
It has to do with purchasing a quality firearm and taking care of it.
It also has to do with knowing when something is way under market value and buying it.

Prime example - 1894 FG - Marlin 41 mag - originally purchased in 2006 for $450. Current value is between $2000 and $2500. That is about a 9 to 10 percent rate of return.
But that is a cherry picked example. The rate of return typically isn't that great. Its resale value is high because that model isn't made any more and was only made a very limited time.

At most typically you if you shoot the weapon and take care of it, you will break even and make a few bucks on resale but the rate of return will be about the same as if you had invested the money in a typical savings account.

NFA transferable machine guns are always going to go up in value because there is a limited amount of them out there. If you had money to burn then I would look for deals.
Look for ones that are way under market value. Just keep in mind that besides having a toy to play with your not gonna retire on the profit you make on them unless you get great deals and purchase a lot of them.