.357 Leverguns - nose length & profiles for best feeding?

[Bigslug]

Trying to think ahead with my next Accurate Molds purchase. . .

I am going to be ordering an LFN/WFN style mold in the 158-170 grain range to fill a niche in the handgun boolit inventory.

There exists the possibility of a later purchase of a .357 Ruger/Marlin 1894 or perhaps an 1892 clone. Because of this hypothetical lever gun, I'm looking at keeping the nose in front of the crimp groove down to 0.30" to stay at SAAMI max COAL. Considering meplat diameters of 0.24" to 0.27".

Any input you can give on what runs and what chokes in those guns would be appreciated.

[G W Wade]

I have been using Lee's 38- 125 RNFP with no problems. GW

[Pereira]

I have an older Rossi imported by Interarms that I bought years ago second hand.
I have had no issue with a SWC or a WFN, the bullet I use most any more is this one.
https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=214&category=5&secondary=10&keywords=
I know of at least 5 others that shoot it in their Henrys without any issue also.

RP

[Wheelgun]

My 1980s Marlin gets fed the Lee 358-158RF, & the 358-125RF most. Second would be the Lee GroupBuy clone of the Lyman 358-156 SWC, it feed well, but maybe not quite as smooth as the others.
Mine will feed my clone of Lyman 358-429 Keith smooth, but only in 38spl brass. I could probably crimp over the front driving band in 357, but don’t because I have others that work.

I have no experience with a 92 in 357, but the 45 I had would eat anything shorter than the NOE 454-276 swc.

[Soundguy]

Trying to think ahead with my next Accurate Molds purchase. . .

I am going to be ordering an LFN/WFN style mold in the 158-170 grain range to fill a niche in the handgun boolit inventory.

There exists the possibility of a later purchase of a .357 Ruger/Marlin 1894 or perhaps an 1892 clone. Because of this hypothetical lever gun, I'm looking at keeping the nose in front of the crimp groove down to 0.30" to stay at SAAMI max COAL. Considering meplat diameters of 0.24" to 0.27".

Any input you can give on what runs and what chokes in those guns would be appreciated.


After shooting more levergun in handgun cartridges lately.. I can say.. that many hate SWC cartridges.. I much prefer rnfp.

[FergusonTO35]

Lee 125 or 158 RNFP all the way. My Rossi and Marlin love 'em. BTW, the 158 will take a gas check no problemo.

[cwlongshot]

You can alter the lifter and allow a slight increase in OAL.

For instance one of my favorites is the Lyman 358429. But its always been far too long. Since my alterations it feeds the 429 seated and crimped in its crimp groove.

CW

[Griff]

The wider the meplat the more problematic. All my leverguns prefer either round-flat nose or truncated cones nose shapes.

[Rp-]

I havent cast for mine yet but I bought some acme coated bullets with a round nose flat point. As others have said they're working great for me.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[imashooter2]

My 1894C feeds full wadcutters smoothly and I have done this modification so it will feed anything shorter than 1.650 OAL.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?7750-Modifying-the-Marlin-1894-for-a-longer-cartridge-OAL&highlight=1894c

[Winger Ed.]

Both my Marlins a carbine, and a CB did so-so with a Keith style SWC in .357.
The same boolit in a .38Spec. case---- not so much.
If I ever get another mold for .357cal, it will be a RN.

[Bigslug]

OK. Multiple endorsements of the Lee 358-158-RF, which looks pretty similar in nose profiled to the .27" meplat WFN types I'm considering. Lee's site claims a crimp-groove to nose length of .36" on that one. Unless we're dealing with trimmed brass, that's a hypothetical COAL of 1.65" - so in theory that works in an unaltered Marlin?

[FergusonTO35]

My stock 1982 vintage Marlin eats 'em all day long.

[Bigslug]

IIIIIIINTERSTING. . . That hypothetical 1.65" COAL of the Lee 158gr. turns out to be the exact length of my GP-100's cylinder plus the rim of a chambered cartridge - so, basically LONG, and any wheelgun round will need to be at least marginally shorter.

Considering the Lee has a pretty aggressive meplat, it seems like this should not be that difficult a proposition.

[imashooter2]

The Larson group buy C358-180-RF has a nose to crimp of only .300. I find it hard to believe that the 358-158-RF goes .350. There is a drawing of the Larson boolit here:

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/rossi-s3.htm

The SAECO #353 180 grain FN has a nose to crimp of .330 and would not feed in my Marlin without the carrier modification. A .350 nose to crimp would certainly hang up on the edge of the magazine tube when the lifter started to rise.

[Thin Man]

I have an extremely early Rossi '92 Trapper chambered for 38 and/or 357, came to me with a Lyman receiver sight installed for the previous owner. After loading all test ammo with .357 Magnum brass I found the following. First, I got my tightest groups with the Lyman 358156 mold pattern wearing a gas check (also tested heavier and lighter boolits). Second, this boolit, crimped in the groove, slid into the chamber easy and no stalls or hiccups. This rifle feels so light and small in the hand I sometimes wonder if it would ride in a belt holster.

[Bigslug]

The Larson group buy C358-180-RF has a nose to crimp of only .300. I find it hard to believe that the 358-158-RF goes .350. There is a drawing of the Larson boolit here:

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/rossi-s3.htm

The SAECO #353 180 grain FN has a nose to crimp of .330 and would not feed in my Marlin without the carrier modification. A .350 nose to crimp would certainly hang up on the edge of the magazine tube when the lifter started to rise.

It puzzled me as well, but all I have to go on is Lee's site which says "Distance from the crimp groove to the nose of the bullet = .360 inches". Overall bullet length is given as .630".

I suspect it is probably a typo on Lee's part. The Accurate 36-158VB looks like a spot-on clone of the Lee, complete with bevel base and .630" overall length, and it has a nose of .30". Given that SAAMI max for a .357 case calls for a nose .30" or shorter, this seems pretty likely.

At any rate, the Lee's nose profile matches many of the Accurate designs I've been considering for a tumble luber for the wheelguns, so knowing that'll run in a lever action is very helpful. Thanks guys!

:drinks:

[white cloud]

My Marlin 1894 feeds wadcutters reliably. It also shoots accurately with the RCBS 158 grain semi-wadcutter gas check bullet. The Lyman 358429 in .357 cases will not feed at all in my rifle.

[Bigslug]

My Marlin 1894 feeds wadcutters reliably. It also shoots accurately with the RCBS 158 grain semi-wadcutter gas check bullet. The Lyman 358429 in .357 cases will not feed at all in my rifle.

Good intel - is the Lyman/Keith that fails to feed seated to the crimp groove, or crimped over the front band?

[TomAM]

Never crimp over the front band with a levergun.
The cartridges in your tube magazine might telescope from recoil.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Any boolit profile should feed flawlessly in any of the new Ruglins. Reason being they are breaking the sharp edge on the chamber mouth on all the guns.

Read this; https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?381904-Chamfering-the-Chamber-Mouth-on-your-Marlin-1894-rifle They are doing this during chambering now so you don't have to. Chambering is being done by Single Point Boring on Strait Wall Chambers instead of using a Chambering Reamer. Simple to add a Small Radius at the beginning of the finish pass.

SWC's are the preferred boolit style for anything .357 and above. Keith invented it and he got it right. No need to look elsewhere. That said just about any boolit style will work well on the receiving end from a .44 or .45 just because of the size of the boolit. Anything weighing 250 gr+ traveling at 1600 fps + will take down just about anything in N/A. The 310 gr Lee .44 cal. Boolit with 2 Crimp Grooves and a Gas Check is an inexpensive way to get into "Heavy for Caliber Boolits." They are not hard to get above 1500+ fps from a rifle and that puts them above Low Recoil 1 oz. Shotgun Slugs running 1300 fps.

The good thing about the new Marlin Rifles, is that the .44's and .45's both have 1:20 twist barrels so they will stabilize longer/heavier boolits so you don't have to drive them at Warp Speed to get decent accuracy.

MY 1894CB 24 from 2005 has a 1:38 twist barrel and I have to run my 250-260 gr SWC's at 1600fps+ to get good accuracy. (2 MOA with Iron Sights.) There is a reason it has a Big Pachmayer Recoil Pad on the back end!

Anyway I am very enthusiastic about the New Marlin Rifles. Just be patient they will arrive.

Randy

[la5676]

Not a thread hijack, but a question about 357 rifle vs pistol loads. B-I-L has some .357 magnum reloads from my deceased father, marked .357 magnum (rifle load). I don't have a .357 rifle, wished I did, but honestly, didn't now there would be a difference.

Thanks in advance

[Bigslug]

Not a thread hijack, but a question about 357 rifle vs pistol loads. B-I-L has some .357 magnum reloads from my deceased father, marked .357 magnum (rifle load). I don't have a .357 rifle, wished I did, but honestly, didn't now there would be a difference.

Thanks in advance

la5676, If the load data is on the box, that may be a clue as to what your father had in mind, but if all you have is "rifle load", it could mean:

Load worked up for a rifle's barrel length.
Load worked up for a specific gun (as in, he had five revolvers, but only one rifle)
Might have been uncomfortable to shoot in a handgun.
Worked it out to feed in a rifle (not an issue with revolvers so long as bullet nose length isn't excessive)

The Lyman manual lists the .357 and several other popular levergun/revolver cartridges in two separate sections. I've not yet delved too deeply, but if one had no intent to shoot the ammo through a handgun, powders with slower burn rates could be used to maximize a rifle barrel's velocity potential, but might lead to an incomplete burn if tried in handguns.

[la5676]

la5676, If the load data is on the box, that may be a clue as to what your father had in mind, but if all you have is "rifle load", it could mean:

Load worked up for a rifle's barrel length.
Load worked up for a specific gun (as in, he had five revolvers, but only one rifle)
Might have been uncomfortable to shoot in a handgun.
Worked it out to feed in a rifle (not an issue with revolvers so long as bullet nose length isn't excessive)

The Lyman manual lists the .357 and several other popular levergun/revolver cartridges in two separate sections. I've not yet delved too deeply, but if one had no intent to shoot the ammo through a handgun, powders with slower burn rates could be used to maximize a rifle barrel's velocity potential, but might lead to an incomplete burn if tried in handguns.

Thanks for the reply. It doesn't sound like pressurewise, we have much to be concerned with then. I had never heard that the .357 rifle could handle more than the wheelgun for the same cartridge. I've been lazy, and decided to ask here first, before I consulted my Lyman 46th or whatever I have out in the shop, but just didn't remember a separation of the two different loads previous to B-I-L pointing it out. And, no, load data is not on box.

Thanks

[T-Bird]

Bigslug. I have an 1894cs Remlin (a good one) from 2018(?), that I shoot Accurate mold 36-180ug seated to 1.580 oal with the case trimmed to seat in the crimping groove (1.28 I think) in. It feeds slick and is very accurate over H110. It's a WFN.

[GrizzLeeBear]

It puzzled me as well, but all I have to go on is Lee's site which says "Distance from the crimp groove to the nose of the bullet = .360 inches". Overall bullet length is given as .630".

I suspect it is probably a typo on Lee's part. The Accurate 36-158VB looks like a spot-on clone of the Lee, complete with bevel base and .630" overall length, and it has a nose of .30". Given that SAAMI max for a .357 case calls for a nose .30" or shorter, this seems pretty likely.

At any rate, the Lee's nose profile matches many of the Accurate designs I've been considering for a tumble luber for the wheelguns, so knowing that'll run in a lever action is very helpful. Thanks guys!

:drinks:

It's definitly a typo. My copy of the 358-158-RF measures .26" from nose to crimp groove which makes COAL of 1.55" - just about perfect for any .357.

[1Papalote]

I shoot the Ranch Dog 190 gr made for the 35 Remington. Crimp on the ogive. Flawless feeding in my 3 Marlins, great accuracy. I know this is not in the weight range you specified, it is one of two designs I now use in 357 rifles, the other being Lee 125 RF.

[smkummer]

I compete in CASS and the Lee 125 RF and maybe 158 RF are the most common cast bullets used for those that cast. Probably due to the low cost of the molds. 1894 Marlins, 73 Win and 92 Win. and clones all run that bullet