Seating this bullet

[Whopper Stopper]

310250

Hello!

I have never loaded or shot any cast bullets.

Could someone tell me where they would seat and crimp this bullet? It is a .44 Caliber 240 Gr. SWC from Bayou Bullets. Would I seat and crimp where the pen is pointing or should I crimp just under the top band? I am sure this is a very dumb question, for that I apologize.

I just received 1000 of these today so am very excited about loading a few up and hitting the range.

Thanks for any comments or tips.

WS

[Winger Ed.]

The grove you're pointing at is for a grease/wax type lubricant.
Being powder coated, you don't need the lubricant, and leave it open.
The top grove to the right of the pen is for the case mouth to crimp into.

I would encourage you to get a Lyman cast bullet book.
There's a lot more in it than just loading data.

[Minerat]

No such thing as a dumb question on CB. Use what is called the crimp groove just above the pen point. What you are pointing at is called a lube groove. Where if it was not powder coated you would fill with boolit lube.

PS. Ed beat me.

[Winger Ed.]

. Ed beat me.

Ya got-ta be quick buddy.:bigsmyl2:

[Whopper Stopper]

Thanks for the quick replies, I appreciate the help.

I will see if I can find a Lyman cast bullet book, good tip!

Looking at the bands on the bullet I think it would be a lot easier for me to crimp on the wide lube groove Lol My eyes aren't what the used to be.

Thanks again!

WS

[Rp-]

Your load data should specify an overall length which should put you right around that crimp groove.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[405grain]

Whopper Stopper: Cast bullets aren't like jacketed bullets. When you're seating cast bullets you need to be careful not to shave lead off the sides of the bullet. A 3 die reloading set usually has an expanding die that puts a slight flare on the case mouth so that the bullet will start into the case. For revolver cartridges the seating die usually has a roll crimp shoulder inside. It's important to crimp revolver cartridges so that recoil won't try to pull the bullets out of the case. Without a crimp the noses of the bullets can start sticking out of the cylinder and can jam up the action. With jacketed bullets you can seat and crimp in the same operation. With cast bullets, seating and crimping in a single operation can sometimes cause the case mouth to dig into the bullet while it's still being seated by the die. When this happens it can cause the case mouth to shave lead off of the top driving band. A way to prevent this is to do the bullet seating, and the crimping, as two separate operations. First back the seating die off just enough that it doesn't crimp the case. Adjust the seating stem to seat the bullets to the proper depth and seat all the bullets. Once the bullets have been seated into the case, back off the seating stem so that it won't touch the bullets and screw down the die body so that it will crimp the cases. Run all the cartridges through the die and crimp the case necks. This way you'll end up with perfect cartridges and no shaved lead (or powder coat) which could effect accuracy or barrel leading.

[Minerat]

Thanks for the quick replies, I appreciate the help.

I will see if I can find a Lyman cast bullet book, good tip!

Looking at the bands on the bullet I think it would be a lot easier for me to crimp on the wide lube groove Lol My eyes aren't what the used to be.

Thanks again!

WS

If you do that it might make the finished cartridge too long to fit the cylinder or feed properly. You could crimp to top of the upper most band though.

[Winger Ed.]

Looking at the bands on the bullet I think it would be a lot easier for me to crimp on the wide lube groove Lol My eyes aren't what the used to be.

I'd sure re-think that concept.

This stuff ain't like Burger King,,,,, you don't always get it your way.

[405grain]

Winger Ed's post is pretty graphic, but the danger of taking a lackadaisical approach to handloading is real. If a bullet is seated too deeply, or in the case of autoloaders, the bullet is a loose enough fit that it gets pushed back into the case when the firearm cycles, the pressures can increase dangerously. I have learned through long experience that the worst damage to anything is not caused by people that don't know what their doing: it's caused by people that THINK they know what their doing.

I second the suggestion that you get yourself a copy of the 4th edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, and then do something that 80% of the people that have this book never do - read the front parts of the book. In the interim, the 3rd edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is widely available as a pdf from several sources. It' an older manual and doesn't have all the loads and information as the newer version, but it's a good start, (plus it's free). Here's a link:
http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Bullet%20Casting/Lyman%20Cast%20Bullet%20Handbook%20-%203rd%20Edition%20-%201980%20-%20Reduce.pdf

[remy3424]

Dang Ed, those are quite the pics! I am thinking that was a Glock. Than makes you start thinking a bit more about what you are doing!

[Winger Ed.]

Dang Ed, those are quite the pics! I am thinking that was a Glock.


Oh yeah.
There's a bunch of pictures out there of revolvers letting go and chunks of the cylinder and top strap hitting
the shooter and even bystanders in the face.

[Whopper Stopper]

Whopper Stopper: Cast bullets aren't like jacketed bullets. When you're seating cast bullets you need to be careful not to shave lead off the sides of the bullet. A 3 die reloading set usually has an expanding die that puts a slight flare on the case mouth so that the bullet will start into the case. For revolver cartridges the seating die usually has a roll crimp shoulder inside. It's important to crimp revolver cartridges so that recoil won't try to pull the bullets out of the case. Without a crimp the noses of the bullets can start sticking out of the cylinder and can jam up the action. With jacketed bullets you can seat and crimp in the same operation. With cast bullets, seating and crimping in a single operation can sometimes cause the case mouth to dig into the bullet while it's still being seated by the die. When this happens it can cause the case mouth to shave lead off of the top driving band. A way to prevent this is to do the bullet seating, and the crimping, as two separate operations. First back the seating die off just enough that it doesn't crimp the case. Adjust the seating stem to seat the bullets to the proper depth and seat all the bullets. Once the bullets have been seated into the case, back off the seating stem so that it won't touch the bullets and screw down the die body so that it will crimp the cases. Run all the cartridges through the die and crimp the case necks. This way you'll end up with perfect cartridges and no shaved lead (or powder coat) which could effect accuracy or barrel leading.

Thanks for the excellent information. The .44 Caliber 240 Gr. SWC that I bought have a slight taper at the base. From what I could research many using the bullets say there isn't a need to flare the cases. I have a Lee 4 die set of dies. From what I can tell most do as you explained but then for final crimp they use the carbide factory crimp die. If it shouldn't be used please advise.

Thanks for the time you spent replying.

[Whopper Stopper]

I'd sure re-think that concept.

This stuff ain't like Burger King,,,,, you don't always get it your way.

I was talking in jest about the lube groove. I have been loading rifle and handgun bullets since 1976. I always strictly adhere to all safety precautions when reloading. Cast bullets were just something I never used so as a result I wasn't sure of the exact procedure.

I retired after 45 years in the tree industry. Lots of pictures of slashed up tree choppers if you get to looking for them. In all the years I slung a chainsaw I never got bit once. Some say that I was just lucky, I like to think I was careful.

Thanks for the reminder though regarding the dangers.

[Whopper Stopper]

I appreciate all the replies and tips.
I have a a copy of the 4th edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook on the way.

I am planning to start out loading some plinking loads with 5.5 - 6 grains of Bullseye in .44 Magnum cases. I'm not saying Bullseye is the best, but it is one of the pistol powders that I have on hand.

Hope you all have an excellent day!

WS

[racepres]

I appreciate all the replies and tips.
I have a a copy of the 4th edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook on the way.

I am planning to start out loading some plinking loads with 5.5 - 6 grains of Bullseye in .44 Magnum cases. I'm not saying Bullseye is the best, but it is one of the pistol powders that I have on hand.

Hope you all have an excellent day!

WS

A Mild, and Easy Shooting place to start...

[WRideout]

the Lyman 3d edition is found online at this site; https://archive.org/details/LymanCastBulletHandbook3rdEdition1980Ocr/page/n21/mode/2up.

if the link doesn't work, just google Lyman cast bullet handbook, 3d edition.

Wayne

[racepres]

the Lyman 3d edition is found online at this site; https://archive.org/details/LymanCastBulletHandbook3rdEdition1980Ocr/page/n21/mode/2up.

if the link doesn't work, just google Lyman cast bullet handbook, 3d edition.

Wayne

Great news...I really Like the 3rd edition... the 4th...Not so Much..

[gwpercle]

The grove you're pointing at is for a grease/wax type lubricant.
Being powder coated, you don't need the lubricant, and leave it open.
The top grove to the right of the pen is for the case mouth to crimp into.

I would encourage you to get a Lyman cast bullet book.
There's a lot more in it than just loading data.

:goodpost:
There is a whole lot more in it ...
Look for the " Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition " to us boolit caster's / shooters it's worth it's weight in gold .
Read the information chapters ... Chapter 1 through Chapter 18 ... lots of good stuff .
Don't be afraid to ask questions ... all of us started knowing little or nothing ...
none of know it all .
P.S. Buy a copy of the book ... having it at your fingertips beats a computer book Seven ways to Sunday !
Gary

[mehavey]

...what I could research many using the [bevel-base] bullets say there isn't a need to flare the cases You still absolutely need to flare the case mouth enough to hand-seat the bullet
about a dime's width past the bevel before using the press the rest of the way.

`Else you will shave lead and coating off.
(Bad ju ju...) :oops: [smilie=b:

[Whopper Stopper]

You still absolutely need to flare the case mouth enough to hand-seat the bullet
about a dime's width past the bevel before using the press the rest of the way.

`Else you will shave lead and coating off.
(Bad ju ju...) :oops: [smilie=b:

Is the Bad ju ju you refer to "leading", or is there another problem on the horizon I'm still unaware of ?

I did notice some shaving on 4-5 bullets. I only loaded 15 to try at the range.

[725]

Yep. Flare the case mouth some. The bullet pictured is referred to as "bevel base" (BB), and indeed, it is to facilitate seating. Although it may seem like an extra effort, it is certainly advisable. Doesn't need to be a radical flare, but enough to preclude any lead (or powder coating) shaving from the insertion of the bullet. Messes up accuracy and fouls the die with debris over time. Welcome to the cast addiction.

[44MAG#1]

Flare the case enough to not scrape the coating on the bullet and crimp in the crimp groove.
Start low on data and work up.
About as simple as it gets.
Go forth and load.

[JoeJames]

You still absolutely need to flare the case mouth enough to hand-seat the bullet
about a dime's width past the bevel before using the press the rest of the way.

`Else you will shave lead and coating off.
(Bad ju ju...) :oops: [smilie=b:I agree, but I woyuld have said "bell" the case mouth. Just don't bell it so much that the case will not enter the bullet seating die. Did that once when an errant 44 Magnum case got into the mix when I was doing 44 Specials. Just bell it enough to where the bullet will enter the case and not scrape lead off.

[mdi]

Your question has been answered quite well (first groove below the shoulder is how deep to seat the bullet and roll crimp). I started waaay pre web and my first bullets were some generic 158 gr, LRN for my 38 Special. I seated all bullets to the crimp groove (I figgered the bullet designer knew where to put it). Besides, the OAL rarely came out the same as the book dimension so for the next 40 years and tens of thousands of revolver handloads, I still seat to the crimp groove and disregard the book OAL. Never a problem...

I flare every case to make bullet seating easier; cast plated, coated, jacketed, all have a good "entry" t the case and I get straight, clean bullet seating (I often tell many newer reloaders to use as much flare as needed to get good bullet seating and worry about case life later. Too much flare is when the case won't enter the seating die). Flare is removed in the last step, crimping. I use roll crimp dies for revolver rounds and "deflaring" dies for my semi-auto handloads (aka; taper crimp dies ).

I have the 3rd Edition and 4th Edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks and much prefer the 3rd. I feel the 3rd is more new caster friendly and the 4th gets into casting for black powder cartridge guns...

Bells ring and flares are formed in metal tubing...

[JoeJames]

Your question has been answered quite well (first groove below the shoulder is how deep to seat the bullet and roll crimp). I started waaay pre web and my first bullets were some generic 158 gr, LRN for my 38 Special. I seated all bullets to the crimp groove (I figgered the bullet designer knew where to put it). Besides, the OAL rarely came out the same as the book dimension so for the next 40 years and tens of thousands of revolver handloads, I still seat to the crimp groove and disregard the book OAL. Never a problem...

I flare every case to make bullet seating easier; cast plated, coated, jacketed, all have a good "entry" t the case and I get straight, clean bullet seating (I often tell many newer reloaders to use as much flare as needed to get good bullet seating and worry about case life later. Too much flare is when the case won't enter the seating die). Flare is removed in the last step, crimping. I use roll crimp dies for revolver rounds and "deflaring" dies for my semi-auto handloads (aka; taper crimp dies ).

I have the 3rd Edition and 4th Edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks and much prefer the 3rd. I feel the 3rd is more new caster friendly and the 4th gets into casting for black powder cartridge guns...

Bells ring and flares are formed in metal tubing...I had a small batch of 38 Specials where I just did not quite crimp enough. Had to go back and do a harder crimp to where the rounds would "plunk" in the cylinder chambers of my S&W Model 67. Before, that they'd chamber with a slight push and were a tad hard to eject after firing.

[Whopper Stopper]

Your question has been answered quite well

What an awesome group! The time you people spent helping to get me on the right path is unbelievable and very appreciated.

I will say loading the .44 bullets is a joy compared to my fiddling around reloading .380's and 9mm. My hands and fingers are pretty well garbage from Osteoarthritis, so it is a joy loading something I can get a hold of and actually feel.

I did load another 5 bullets giving the cases a slight flare and again used the Lee FCD crimp die to give the bullet a medium crimp. I really wanted to get to the range but will have to put that off until next week when again the weather will be in the mid 30's to 40. My fingers and cold don't mix well any more.

Have any of you guys shot any game with the .44 cast bullets? I have a bear hunt coming up in Sept. in WI. I had been planning on using some Sierra 240 grain JHC bullets, just curious about the cast.

Hope you all have an excellent Thursday.

[gloob]

The .44 Caliber 240 Gr. SWC that I bought have a slight taper at the base.

I would have sworn that's a gas check shank, looking at the pic in the first post. You can shoot a shanked bullet without the check, since it's coated. But accuracy might drop off a bit.

[Apothecary Pat]

Nice thread. I joined cast boolits recently and have found this site a great resource. The comments on this thread are perfectly consistent with my experience loading and shooting cast boolits for SASS. I noticed that Hornady has a cowboy seating die as well as a full die set meant for those of us who load cast boolits. While I find the standard dies work well for what I do, I was wondering, does anyone have any experience with that seater die?

[rintinglen]

I strongly urge you to follow the advice given to get the 3rd AND 4th editions of the Lyman cast bullet handbook. The 3rd has much better general information on casting and loading, but as Hodgdon has increasingly deleted old powder standbys, the load data has become less and less relevant. The third edition is available as a free down load if money is an issue, and Hodgdons website has load data for all the powders they currently sell, as well as some older powders that they have discontinued.