Subsonic Caliber for Hogs

[TXCOONDOG]

I have a new place to hunt hogs, and the farmer wants me to use a bow or subsonic ammo when hunting at night. All my shots will be 100 yds or less due to velocity restraints. I do have many .308's with 10 & 12 twists and have the Lee 150 & 170 molds using 50 WW & 50 pure alloy. I'm going to use Trail Boss with a mag primers.

I'm thinking head or behind the ear mostly. I just don't have any experience with rifle cast boolits on animals.

Good to start with since I have the rifle and 30 cal can? Is it recommended to go with a larger caliber (large meplate) such as .450 Bushmaster, etc.?

Need some help and advice.

Thanks in advance.

[Larry Gibson]

Doubt you'll get a larger suppressor for quite a while (perhaps a year+ now if not longer with all the ATFE SBR filings expected) so you'll probably need to go with what you got. Use the 170 gr bullet and load it until you just start hearing a "snap" in front of the suppressor. Pick your shots as suggested.

[TXCOONDOG]

Hey Larry,

Your recommended LE powder charge of 35.5grs was the ticket for the XLR 30-30 and the Lee 170 bullets.

Appreciate all the help!

[HWooldridge]

My son and grandson shoot beaucoup hogs around San Angelo - mostly at night. I would not use a bow unless you have dogs to follow the blood trail.

The .30 cal and a suppressor will definitely do a number on them - head or body shots will take them down pretty quickly, even big hogs. My son uses a 7mm Mag with a thermal sight and a .30 can. The suppression is not great but still better than nothing. He is not using subsonic loads, which would obviously also help. My grandson uses a .223 with a .22 can so those shots are fairly quiet.

[centershot]

OP, you stated that the landowner wanted you to use a bow or "subsonic" ammo - did you mean suppressed? Or, literally, subsonic? If suppression isn't a factor, a 44 mag with a 300+ grain boolit at around 1050 fps would work nicely.

[TXCOONDOG]

Suppressed. His place is 300 acres out of the city, but there are houses close by and the homeowners like to complain to the local LE/Game Wardens. Hogs have got wise to traps/snares, etc.

[Harter66]

I'll leave this . A 500 gr 45 at a balmy 1100 fps holds 1000ftlb past 300 yd . A 405 does the same but only to about 200 yd .

Twist can be a problem in the 308 . I had one that wouldn't shoot anything over 175 gr , it had a 1-12 twist . Others have had better results .

[lar45]

I like to shoot at the base of the ear, no tracking needed. A real bonus for the area I hunt= very thick brush , lots of thorns...
The 170 in your 308 with a can should be great.
The 450bushmaster gives great penetration, but for head shots... the 30-170 should be plenty.

[quilbilly]

One of my 308's really likes a subsonic load of Red Dot but doesn't like Trail Boss. Another 308 won't shoot either powder or anything under 1500 fps. Both are the same twist at 1/12. So you might consider that as an option as well. Each barrel seems to have its own personality.

[elmacgyver0]

Unless you have your suppressor in hand, you will not be doing this for at least a year.
I bought a suppressor on the 22nd of January of 2022 and received it 3 days short of a year.
I thought I would easily have it for the summer of 2022 because of the new E-Forms with the 90-day approval.
Well, that worked out real nice.
Form1s are a lot quicker so if you build your own in theory you could have it soon.
Of course, that was before all this Form1 brace fiasco.
You are lucky you already have that 30 cal. can.
I may be wrong, but I think all the approvals are going to really slow down do the brace fiasco, which makes me wonder if that wasn't the idea in the first place.

[TXCOONDOG]

One of my 308's really likes a subsonic load of Red Dot but doesn't like Trail Boss. Another 308 won't shoot either powder or anything under 1500 fps. Both are the same twist at 1/12. So you might consider that as an option as well. Each barrel seems to have its own personality.



My Rem 700 w/ 12T shoots 150gr softpoints MOA with 8.5gr of Trail Boss and Rem 9 1/2" primer so I hope it will with the Lee casts too. I don't have any Red Dot, but I do have lots of other shotgun, pistol and rifle powders.

Any other powder (loads) suggestions are welcome?

I need to check with my son-n-law as I think he has a 300BKOT with 7 or 8 T.

[TXCOONDOG]

Unless you have your suppressor in hand, you will not be doing this for at least a year.
I bought a suppressor on the 22nd of January of 2022 and received it 3 days short of a year.
I thought I would easily have it for the summer of 2022 because of the new E-Forms with the 90-day approval.
Well, that worked out real nice.
Form1s are a lot quicker so if you build your own in theory you could have it soon.
Of course, that was before all this Form1 brace fiasco.
You are lucky you already have that 30 cal. can.
I may be wrong, but I think all the approvals are going to really slow down do the brace fiasco, which makes me wonder if that wasn't the idea in the first place.

I think all my can approvals have taken 9-16months even before all this and COVID. I may just order a 46 cal can since I plan on a 338 Laupa build and I've been eyeballing the 45-70 too.

[Finster101]

AA1680 works really well for subsonic in .300 Blackout especially for an AR platform. I've used H110 for 300 subs as well. A 220-230 grn. boolit with about 10 grains of 1680 normally just lets me hear the action cycle and then a smack as it hits the target with the suppressor in place.

[quilbilly]

I use 8 gr of Bullseye in my 30/30 Contender 10" barrel with excellent success without a filler but launching the 113 gr Lee boolit giving an MV of 1350 fps. Something slightly less than that might work with your heavier boolits. It might be worth a try but, sadly, it is my Remington barrel that doesn't like those very fast burning powders. Every barrel has a personality, though. My Remington barrel is one of my most accurate with CB's as long as velocities are between 1800 and 1900 using 2400 powder.

[DougGuy]

The 300 BO seems to excel at this task. I use 220gr jhp Remington subs in it, and with the can it's quieter than a car door. I rarely shoot this gun so I see no need to develop cast loads for it.

[rockrat]

I would recommend powder coating your boolits if using them in a suppressor. Now, that said, if you have one you can easily disassemble to clean, then powder coating would not be needed, but would still help with keeping the suppressor clean

[Rapier]

Look up the speed of sound at the altitde you will be hunting at. Load for accuracy below that number. You may not exceed that speed, so to increase energy and penetration you must increase weight to dore diameter. A 1-10 twist 30 cal will stabilize a 220 round nose.
Load to accuracy for 50-100 yards.
Shoot neck center rop to bottom close to the shoulder or behind the shoulder double lung or heart shot, do not shoot for the head, a kill shot is eye to ear hole, center of the line, a very small target, moving constantly. Study the pig anatomy before you think where you want to shoot.
I do not hunt hogs, I kill hogs, we have real big hogs, any hog I see on my farm I track down if it takes all day, and I kill it so it never comes back on the my farm again. That is my version of hog hunting. I kill six a day at times. First hog I killed weighed 550 pounds, that was in 71, been killing hogs since.
Mt favorite hog rifle is an AR in 358 MGP, a necked up slightly shortened 6.8 SPC with a 10 round mag. 200s at 2,500 fps 3/10 ". The subsonic shoots 230s at 910 fps with a can 1/2". Like a rimless 357 Herrett in a rifle.

[BLAHUT]

If a 30 cal is what you have to work with, go as heavy as you can, a 10 T will stabilize a 220 gr bullet, then if need be, you will need to figure you subsonic load for where you hunt. Base of scull, neck top center, neck at shoulders, behind shoulders, any of these, paralyze, saw grandpa shoot a pig in the head with a .38 pistol, it bounced off and hit him, didn't bother pig at all.. Grandpa didn't do so good...

[MarkP]

If you have any rifles with a longer bbl's like 26" or longer, try some subsonic loads in them. Mine sound like softy clapping hands.

[Bigslug]

Your 170 out of a 1-10 twist should be a dandy at subsonic speeds. You'll have higher sectional density than most any of the popular revolver options. Should give you scads of penetration - and you already have the can.

[Milky Duck]

there is a hollow point 150-151grn mold that is VERY popular over here....guy in Tokoroa casts them and sells on trademe.... Ive played with them quite a bit...MAJORITY of folks serious about subsonics use these if $$$$ are tight and the lehigh fracturing if $$$$ no issue.PERSONALLY I believe the 150hps are about as good of .308 cal subsonic projectile as you can get.....the ywill exit most animals..now granted a big pig over here is 200lb you lot have some very big fellas.... if I was using subs on pigs,I would want mag with potent supers on hand in case things got hairy in a hurry..better to apolagise for making noise than for ambulance turning up to rescue you after getting ripped by angry wounded boar.
the 151grn hp is same mold that throws 170 as aflat point...so probably talking same boolit as the others.
any pig under 100lb I wouldnt muck around and just shoulder shoot them. behind ear is ideal,but not going to be feasable once they are on the move.

[Cast10]

Aim point is good. I shoot for midpoint between ear and shoulder. Spine. CNS. DRT.
If you don’t load subsonic it’ll still crack from the bullet speed until it reaches sub. May be easier to look at larger pistol calibers in a carbine. Just sayin.

[DDriller]

Not cast but here is a place to get some bullets designed for sub sonic use. They are expensive but work well.
https://www.cavitybackbullets.com/category-s/126.htm

[TXCOONDOG]

Carrying around a 11lb rifle all night is not enjoyable and I might have to come up with a lighter rifle...lol I can only image how I would feel if I didn't workout every day.

I appreciate everyone's input.

[TXCOONDOG]

I went to the LGS today to see what they had and end up buying a 46 cal can that's rated for all the big bores (45 and less) and you can remove the baffle stacks. It also comes with a 30 cal adaptor and piston system for pistols. The heck with it, you only live once!!!! Now the long wait.

[Milky Duck]

good stuff,please keep updated with progress.I load .44magnum for a couple of pighunters who shoot over dogs,its a real balancing act between too hot/loud and not enough punch/quiet quiet is good if can poke pill in right spot but SUCKS if they dont.... anywhere in the eye/ear son....get as close as you can then 5 yards closer... two little sayings I grew up with that are as relevant today as they were 40 years ago.

[elmacgyver0]

I think all my can approvals have taken 9-16months even before all this and COVID. I may just order a 46 cal can since I plan on a 338 Laupa build and I've been eyeballing the 45-70 too.

Let us know how it turns out.
Were they Eforms?

[elmacgyver0]

I went to the LGS today to see what they had and end up buying a 46 cal can that's rated for all the big bores (45 and less) and you can remove the baffle stacks. It also comes with a 30 cal adaptor and piston system for pistols. The heck with it, you only live once!!!! Now the long wait.

That is excellent! who is the maker?
The one I got is the Banish 46

I am having a hard time finding a 45/70 set up for it whether it be a Henry or Marlin, of course you can get them both all day long in a bidding war on Gun Broker and end up paying twice or more than the MRSP, which is usually higher than you would pay at your LGS.
Not going to do that, too old a cat to get screwed by the kitten.

[TXCOONDOG]

That is excellent! who is the maker?
The one I got is the Banish 46

I am having a hard time finding a 45/70 set up for it whether it be a Henry or Marlin, of course you can get them both all day long in a bidding war on Gun Broker and end up paying twice or more than the MRSP, which is usually higher than you would pay at your LGS.
Not going to do that, too old a cat to get screwed by the kitten.

Griffin Bushwacker 46

E-Form

[elmacgyver0]

Griffin Bushwacker 46

E-Form

Nice, hope you get it soon.

[HWooldridge]

You know, one of those 45 acp carbines built on an AR platform would be pretty good on hoggies. I think JRC makes one that’s reasonable.

[TXCOONDOG]

You know, one of those 45 acp carbines built on an AR platform would be pretty good on hoggies. I think JRC makes one that’s reasonable.

I thought about this along with other pistol calibers in lever actions and/or bolt actions. I hunt in the National Forest and of coarse the hogs are in the thick stuff so I think the 45-70 with hard casts would be a good fit. I think the 450 Bushmaster might do well too.

I'm thankful for this forum and members as it would take much much much longer to figure things out.

[Grayone]

I would recommend powder coating your boolits if using them in a suppressor. Now, that said, if you have one you can easily disassemble to clean, then powder coating would not be needed, but would still help with keeping the suppressor clean

I too use both 308 and 300 BO. I have a user serviceable suppressor and use both 4227 and Trail Boss powder. With the 308 Lyman 31141 boolit, powder coating and gas checked with the 'gator check'. with the 300 BO the Hornady 190 grain subx gets the call.

[Digital Dan]

Everybody's perspective on this topic is influenced significantly by the turf they hunt, so what floats my boat may not work for anyone else. I'm a stalker that hunts heavy cover. Longest shot I've taken on hogs in the last 20 years was 38 yards, measured with a tape. My weapon of choice during that time frame was a T/C Contender carbine chambered for .22 short. It accounted for approximately 150 hogs in the last 19 years, all of which fell to a single shot with a single exception. The victims ranged in size from 20-250# with an average of about 100-125#. One of my other tools is also a T/C Contender, chambered for a .30 caliber based on a necked down .357 Mag case. It is suppressed and shoots subsonic lead.

Couple of stray thoughts come to mind on the topic at hand. Hogs aren't hard to kill. Lord Placement rules the game. The Prince of terminal ballistics has influence as well, and in this realm will show you that conventional wisdom belongs in the trash bucket. To illustrate that paradigm, I found that CB Shorts penetrate better than .22 LR rounds. On hogs up to the neighborhood of 125# a short will fully penetrate the neck/vertebrae on a broadside shot, and a LR round (SV) will not. Hog's dead regardless, but that was a surprise. On larger hogs I have the patience to wait for them to be facing me, snout down, and pop them a little above the eye line. A CB will fully penetrate the skull/brain, and be found in the neck muscle. Dead pig will testify to that.

Somewhat consistent with my findings about bullet form influence, buckshot will generally fully penetrate a hog on a broadside shot at ranges up to around 40-50 yards. It has enough snap after the fact to kill additional hogs in the background. Been there, done that, on 3 occasions, ie. 1 shot, 3 dead hogs.

Quiet guns give one a significant advantage in this game, be they suppressed/subsonic or just simply quiet like the CB Shorts. I have killed a fair number of hogs after the first shot with my quiet single shot rifles simply because they don't know what that noise was, or where it came from. They do hear it, but don't know what to do. My personal record is 5 hogs without taking a step. 2 of those weighed over 200#, the other 3 were ~60#. The sole survivor of that parade finally figured out that something was wrong, but wasn't sure what it was, so it squealed and ran by me as I reloaded. So you see, I'm not perfect...sometimes they get away.

[Grayone]

I have a new place to hunt hogs, and the farmer wants me to use a bow or subsonic ammo when hunting at night. All my shots will be 100 yds or less due to velocity restraints. I do have many .308's with 10 & 12 twists and have the Lee 150 & 170 molds using 50 WW & 50 pure alloy. I'm going to use Trail Boss with a mag primers.

I'm thinking head or behind the ear mostly. I just don't have any experience with rifle cast boolits on animals.

Good to start with since I have the rifle and 30 cal can? Is it recommended to go with a larger caliber (large meplate) such as .450 Bushmaster, etc.?

Need some help and advice.

Thanks in advance.

I use the original Lyman 31141 in .308 which cast out to 181 grains powder coated and checked. Sized to .309. Powder is Trail Boss at 10 grains. It is a good load.

[Meatpuppet]

458 SOCOM. A suppressed 500gr pure lead (but powdercoated) bullet loafing along at 950fps is still 1000fpe. It is definately louder than a suppressed 300BLK, but packs a punch.

Maker Bullets makes a .458 SOCOM 500gr all-metal machined projectile that is designed to expand at subsonic velocity. I just loaded up several for testing, but I have not had a chance to shoot it.

[popper]

300BKOT with 7 or 8 T. The Lee 170 should work fine. I use red dot or 2400 for light loads in mine. If 40sw 165gr will do the job, BO certainly will. Hits at > 50 yds are difficult with the subs. They can hear it coming and duck the head. Makes shoulder shots more important.

[Milky Duck]

good stuff,please keep updated with progress.I load .44magnum for a couple of pighunters who shoot over dogs,its a real balancing act between too hot/loud and not enough punch/quiet quiet is good if can poke pill in right spot but SUCKS if they dont.... anywhere in the eye/ear son....get as close as you can then 5 yards closer... two little sayings I grew up with that are as relevant today as they were 40 years ago.

both the fellas who were using these are ,it seems,poor shots...both have had non fatal shots and both much prefer supersonic loads...I tried to tell them to shoot em in the earhole or not at all...but you cant seem to teach an old dog new tricks.....