Lee Lube with Lyman Cast Boolits

[Rodfac]

Does anyone have experience with Lee Lube applied to Lyman Cast Boolits? I'm casting Lyman's #429215 GC for a .44 Magnum Marlin 336 with Micro-groove rifling and bore diameter of .433". As cast, these 429215's drop from the mold at .433", a possible working diameter if I keep the velocities down. My current plan is to try the Lee tumble lube and shoot 'em in their 'as cast' diameter and hope for a reasonable grouping.

Another option would be the cake tin method of lubing them using a suitable size cartridge case as the necessary cookie cutter.

Ranch Dog has a Lee bullet that may work but is currently out of the two cavity style molds. As I use the old Lyman dipper and 6# pot on a Coleman stove as my casting set-up, I don't want to get into a bigger size mold. Does anyone know what I can expect for a diameter from the mold with these 265 gr .44 boolits when cast from WW's?

And lastly, is there a source for .433" or .434" diameter sizing dies for the Lyman 450 sizer, a far easier system for seating gas checks. To date, I've been able to seat Hornady gas checks using the 450 but limiting the depth of the push rod movement with a pair of padded vice grips. These Hornady gas checks cannot be slipped on the base of the 429215 boolit by hand, (over size base groove?). When I seat them, a thin lead shaving is left after the check is fully seated. I understand that Hornady's are crimp on checks and that the Lyman variety is designed to come off in flight. I've got a thousand of the Hornady's and would prefer to use them up. Will the thin saving or overly tight fit, adversely affect accuracy, and would the Lyman variety fit better?

Thanks in advance for a rather long series of queries. Regards, Rodfac

[BABore]

You can try annealing a few gas checks to see if they work better. In most cases they relax the GC enough to start better. If the fails, you can also open them up with a ball bearing and hammer. A PITA, but it works. When your done with your 1,000, you may want to get some Gator 44 GC's. They run a shade bigger.

In regards to the Lee mule snot, yes it works ok on regular lube grooved boolits. You will probably be best off by thinning it 50/50 with mineral spirits and giving them a couple coats. IMO it is no substitute for real lube though. It all depends on your accuracy standards.

[Rodfac]

Thanks Babore...I'll try the annealing trick; don't think I've got a ball bearing that size, also a cpl of coats after thinning. Regards Rodfac

[afish4570]

Flat meplat is quite large and cause feeding problems with my Model 94 356 Win and Mod 94 357 with a micro. b arrel. Anyone using one. Looks like a good hunting bullet.afish4570:Fire::Fire:

[Rodfac]

Here's the results of today's shooting in...20 degree weather here in N. KY. I lubed the Lyman 429215 GC's with Lee Liquid Lube, diluted 20% by volume with paint thinner. I dried them over night then seated Hornady gas checks using my Lyman 450 with a stop on the depth shaft so that only the gc was seated, IE no sizing. As cast, they drop from the mold at .432"-.433" diameter. I cast them with no particular extra effort, then visually scanned for the occasional unfilled driving band. The gas checks were seated with the aforementioned thin lead shaving on most if not all. Wish I could get rid of that...bother...

I loaded them in Winchester Superspeed .44 Magnum brass with a Winchester Lg Pistol Primer and 7.5 gr of Win 231. Using a light crimp, I got 5 shot gps at 50 yds right at 3/4" with a scope mounted. I've run about 50 rounds through the piece with no discernable leading to date. This load is my standard target load for a 6.5" S&W Classic M-29 and chrono's 950 fps. I'm guessing that it's about 1200 through a 20" barreled carbine. I'll chrono it when the weather breaks. It feeds well, with just an occasional glitch if I cycle the lever slowly when catching my brass 'fore it drops in the snow.

The next phase is to find out if the same boolit sans gas check is as accurate. Seating the GC is a pain and just adds expense to an other wise low speed plinking-practice round. Regards, Rodfac

[jonk]

I like to imagine that 'real' lube works better than LLA... but for any loads that don't go past maybe 1600 fps or aren't in a really LONG barrel (like a long Mauser, etc.) I honestly don't see any difference in performance or accuracy.

[Rodfac]

Thanks for the reply jonk, I've never used LLA before and am quite surprised at the results, especially the lack of leading, even at these low velocities. There's a good distinct lube rosette on the muzzle. I'll try pushing the load up a little to see where the cross over begins. Initially, all I wanted was a good woods loafin' load that I could pack in both revolver and rifle...makes it easier to stuff the gun belt(see avatar at left). And who can argue with the cost...7.5 gr of Win 231, a primer, and maybe the gas check. I can still get the WW for free from a local tire dealer...pays to get your tires from one source over the years. Regards, Rodfac

[redbear705]

Use can use the small end of a ball pien hammer to open up the gas check also.... and an advantage is that you have a handle to help locate and hold your check down.

[Rodfac]

Thanks red...i'll try the ball peen hammer idea. Rodfac

[Rodfac]

Hey Red...I tried it. Had to flatten the very point on one of my ball peens to keep it from dimpling the bottom, but it spread 'em out just fine. The 450 sizer (with its rod movement curtailed) seated them without the tell tail sliver of lead. A little extra work but I'll see if it makes a difference on the target. I've shot the others, as I said at 50 yds but not farther. I'll try these against them when I can make it out to my 100 yd butts. Good idea, buddy. Rodfac By the way, #1 son went to old maize and blue, graduated in '95. Two tours in the Navy on subs, now an engineer for Rockwell-Collins. Thanks again for the tip. Have you tried it, or were you just brain storming for me? Rodfac

[Rodfac]

Red if you read this, your idea of expanding the gas checks with the ball end of a ball peen hammer worked to perfection. Today's shooting test proved it well worth the time. Groups run right at an inch at 50 yds, and no flyers either. All shots were right on call. I'm using an old Weaver K4 on my 336 Marlin and its resolution is ok for 50 yds. I'm not shooting off an established bench rest either; just resting my forearm across the porch rail here on the farm. Can't say what a good bench rest position would allow, but the sitting porch rail supported position adequately simulates my habitual deer hunting position. (Back against a suitable tree, watching a scrape line or trail intersection.)

The load, 7.5 gr of 231 with Lyman's #429215 gc, cast from WW and lubed with LLA as per the bottle directions, and with a Hornady gc seated after flairing it somewhat with a ball peen hammer, is a good one. Shooting them without sizing leaves them at .433" on average. Groups without the gc open up to 1.5", but still circular, and with no leading observed. I've shot the better part of a hundred of these Lymans now with and without gc's with no cleaning, and no leading. Trying them in the S&W .44 M-29 Classic, I have found that an occasional round is tight in the cylinder due no doubt to the oversize boolit (.433). Two Groups shot from a back rest, knee supported position at 27 yds were just over an inch.

Great load for my intended purpose, cheap practice and a good low velocity woods loafin' load. In the revolver, velocity runs 950 fps, and 1200 fps from the 20" bbl'd Marlin.

Regards, Rodfac

[redbear705]

Rodfac

Glad it helped you out!

Someone told me how to do it when I first started reloading for the 303 British...I was using 30 caliber gas checks and had to open them up.

Have fun!

JR

[Rodfac]

http://C:\Users\Dave\Pictures\2009-02-06 Targets\Targets 001.JPG
Got around to Chronographing this load a cpl of others this afternoon. Here's the result.
In a 20" bbl Marlin 336 .44 Magnum: I used W-W brass, and Win Lg Pistol primers.

7.5 gr of Win 231 with Lyman's # 429215 gr, Unsized at .433" and lubed with Lee Liquid Alox lightly thinned with mineral spirits. I got an average velocity of 1152 fps, with an extreme spread of 40, thats an Sd of 13.5. This load now averages less than an inch for 6 - ten shot gps at 50 yds, and with no extraordinary selection of boolits.

8.0 grains with all the rest of the spec's remaining the same is: Vavg 1223 fps, Es 34, Sd 11. This load, so far averages 1.25" for two ten shot groups, very consistent, both were right at 1.25".