alloy for casting 45ACP bullets

[josper]

I have been using my range lead for casting 45ACP. I tested one batch and it measured 14bhn then today I tested another batch and it was about 8bhn. I think it won't matter much for such a low velocity 800 -900 fps. What do you guys say?

[243winxb]

Soft nose hangs up on my feed ramp.

[BLAHUT]

I need harder just to feed, accuracy is PK.

[LAGS]

The minimum hardness I use is COWW.
But I do use a little harder lead sometimes.
If I have Range Lead.
I consider that almost pure lead since it is such a mix of different leads.
But I also just harden the Range Lead up by adding some Tin.
The added Tin , also makes the range lead cast better.

[josper]

I need harder just to feed, accuracy is PK.

what is PK

[res45]

50/50 pure lead/COWW's, powder coat, water quench, size and shoot in a 1911, Ruger P90 and Hi Point carbine, excellent accuracy and no feed or function issues in any of the firearms. I use the same alloy for 9 MM, 9 x 18 Mak. 38 and 357 as well.

[1903.colt]

I use fairly soft lead 45ACP no issue , I add a little pewter .

[josper]

I use fairly soft lead 45ACP no issue , I add a little pewter .

I'll just have to get to the range if it ever warms up a little and try some

[Bazoo]

I used 50-50 ww/pb for my Springfield mil spec and it leaded, whereas the same bullet but ww alloy shot clean. Using RCBS 45-201-swc and white label 50/50 lube sized .452.

[centershot]

I agree that if you go too soft the boolit will tend to hang up on the feed ramp, but some guns will be OK with it. If you tumble lube it may provide enough "slip" to get the nose up the ramp.

[Hick]

I use 8-9 BHN exclusively with tumble lube in my 45 acp and it does very nicely.

[BNE]

Accuracy will be fine. Feeding is apparently an issue. You can check that at home, just load a mag and hand cycle the gun. ( all safety precautions required, but mainly keep your finger off the trigger. Or just don’t use powder or primer for the 7 in the mag.)

[Forrest r]

I've used 8/9bhn alloy (range scrap) for all my 45acp needs since the 1980's. Fed several 1911's with a bunch of different molds/bullet styles. Never had a "feeding" issue in any of them.

Accuracy has always been outstanding.

[Dan Cash]

I use an Accurate TC mould and try for 20:1 alloy, I have had no problem with any alloy that happens to be on hand. Wheel weights, range scrap; all the same.

[OS OK]

8 BHN any profile & PC'd is fine...feed problems? Polish your feed ramp with some 600 grit wet sand paper, look at it closely & get rid of any machine marks.

[Willie T]

I cast and shoot 230 round noses 50/50 with clip on wheel weights and soft lead. Either tumble lube or conventional lube. Most of the time I conventional lube them. No leading or feed problems either way.

[josper]

I loaded a couple of dummy rounds with both the H&G 68 Bullet and the 230 RN I cycled them through my pistol, the H&G 68 nose had a fair-sized dent, and the 230 RN was dented but not too bad. It will be interesting how accuracy is affected. Meanwhile, I have taken measures to add some hardness to my alloy. Lyman says 1/2 lb of tin and 1/2 lb lead to 9lb of wheel weights [8BHN] or 4lb of linotype to 6lb wheel weights. Should improve things. thanks for all the replies it will help me sort this out. on the downside, I cast and lubed around 2000 bullets before I spotted a problem-. there must be a big variation in my range lead. I tested at the start of casting and again at the end of my run.

[josper]

I use 8-9 BHN exclusively with tumble lube in my 45 acp and it does very nicely.

Hello Hick. Did you cycle any to see if the noses were dented much?

[BJung]

I use range scrap for casting. By picking out the jacketed bullets and casting ingots, the lead measured at 8-9bhn. Maybe you can do the same to have a consistent bhn and more consistent alloy. I'm cheap so if you want to increase the hardness, separate the hardcast bullets you find and add them to your pot of jhp lead to increase hardness. Maybe and idea is to take your rejects and make dummy loads. Then choose the cartridge with the longest OAL that will cycle, and last do a load test.

[Land Owner]

After melting your differing day-to-day parent metals into nearly equal weight bars, and segregating those bars into batches, take one bar from batch one, one bar from batch two, one bar from batch three, etc., and melt THOSE dissimilar bars together into one comingled batch of equal weight bars, which will bring a measurable consistency to your boolits.

For example:
Day One's batch is six (6) 2-pound bars of 8 BHN each, annotated and segregated.
Day Two's batch is four (4) 2-pound bars of 13 BHN each, annotated and segregated.
Day Three's batch is six (6) 2-pound bars of 10 BHN each, annotated and segregated.
Day Four's batch is three (3) 2-pound bars of 14 BHN each, annotated and segregated.

From these example BHN batches melt together three (3) 2-pound bars from each Batch to make twelve (12) comingled 2-pound bars of [(8+13+10+14)/4] about 11.3 BHN.

You will still have left over 2-pound bars and batches of differing BHN, annotated and segregated. The boolit BHN formula you derive from comingling batches should drive you to calculate specific batch & bar weights that when comingled result in 11.3 BHN batches, or whatever result you want to achieve that is realistic within the BHN of the annotated and segregated bars you have on hand.

Regardless of comingling, you cannot achieve a lower BHN than the smallest segregated and annotated BHN bar on hand nor a higher BHN than the largest segregated and annotated BHN bar on hand. You can, apportioning by weight, achieve ANY BHN in between...

[Soundguy]

I use about 10bhn range scrap, perhaps adding a small coin of linotype if the pot won't fill out bullets. I tumble or pan lube.

[ioon44]

My range scrap runs 10-11 BHN and I use Hi-Tek coating this works great in .45 APC and 9 mm, making sure the bullet is not swagged by the reloading dies is a must.

[sqlbullet]

what is PK

I think it is a typo for OK.

[josper]

well , I got to the range today to test some loads I am working up and it looks like I was worried for nothing. with the H&G 68 200gr at about 30' I was keeping them in 4". I'm not a bullseye shooter I mostly like to shoot at the steel plates that are set up if I can hit them I'm happy. The results were the same with the Lyman 452460 bullet. the Lyman 225gr RN was ok but not quite as good as the others. No jams with any of them. So far this RIA feeds anything I put through it.

[one-eyed fat man]

I started out with the Lee 452-228-1R mould and wheelweights pert near fifty years ago. It worked well and accuracy was acceptable. Dan Cash introduced me to the truncated cone design bullets back in the mid 80s and that has been my choice ever since. Accuracy is excellent, as good as any cast bullet. It feeds and functions flawlessly in everything I own.

310331

[res45]

I like the Lee 230 gr. TL TC bullet as well.

https://i.imgur.com/E8KLwcl.jpg

[Rich/WIS]

Have used all sorts of alloys but mostly range lead in my SA Range Officer and didn't see any difference in feeding or accuracy. However a significant portion of the range lead was commercial cast bullets so it probably was harder than the lead from jacketed ammo, IIRC about 11-12BHN on samples I tested.

[Txcowboy52]

I use COWW with a little tin added for fill out . Makes for some nice shooting bullets.

[fredj338]

Another range scrap user for most of my pistol stuff. It usually comes in about 10bhn. I PC & water drop out of the oven. No issues with functioning or accuracy.
For 45acp hp, i like 25-1 alloy, expands down to 800fps.

[Driz]

I like the Lee 230 gr. TL TC bullet as well.

https://i.imgur.com/E8KLwcl.jpg

This is what I’ve been makin for a year. Same bullet straight lead powder coated with Smokes Ford Blue. I have had close to zero jams and mine is an SDS 1911 with less than 300 rounds through it. I don’t crimp mine and the only issues were when I didn’t quite squeeze the case enough. Mine come out with 1 coat to be 240 +- grains.
Whoops, my bad. Mine are the ROUND NOSE version of the 230 not the TC .

[metricmonkeywrench]

After melting your differing day-to-day parent metals into nearly equal weight bars, and segregating those bars into batches, take one bar from batch one, one bar from batch two, one bar from batch three, etc., and melt THOSE dissimilar bars together into one comingled batch of equal weight bars, which will bring a measurable consistency to your boolits.

For example:
Day One's batch is six (6) 2-pound bars of 8 BHN each, annotated and segregated.
Day Two's batch is four (4) 2-pound bars of 13 BHN each, annotated and segregated.
Day Three's batch is six (6) 2-pound bars of 10 BHN each, annotated and segregated.
Day Four's batch is three (3) 2-pound bars of 14 BHN each, annotated and segregated.

From these example BHN batches melt together three (3) 2-pound bars from each Batch to make twelve (12) comingled 2-pound bars of [(8+13+10+14)/4] about 11.3 BHN.

You will still have left over 2-pound bars and batches of differing BHN, annotated and segregated. The boolit BHN formula you derive from comingling batches should drive you to calculate specific batch & bar weights that when comingled result in 11.3 BHN batches, or whatever result you want to achieve that is realistic within the BHN of the annotated and segregated bars you have on hand.

Regardless of comingling, you cannot achieve a lower BHN than the smallest segregated and annotated BHN bar on hand nor a higher BHN than the largest segregated and annotated BHN bar on hand. You can, apportioning by weight, achieve ANY BHN in between...

More or less my thoughts as well, about halfway thru the posts I came to the conclusion that you should re-smelt your range lead to become a better consistency on BHN, Land Owner does have a better better answer if you don't want to re-work any of the lead. I'm looking at about the same thing I have several buckets of range scrap I'm processing, the first melt is to clean out and separate the bulk of the contaminates (rocks, clays dirt, jackets etc), the next step is to put all these ingots together for a final clean and produce usable ingots.

[BJung]

I use to pour my ingots like LandOwner. Afterwords, I'd take the ingots with the same bhn and melt equal parts of the 4 piece ingots (I use a Lee ingot mold), so the alloy would be more consistent given that bhn category.

[gnostic]

I've water dropped range scrap for about 50 years without a hitch in the 45acp. The softest bullet that doesn't lead the barrel is said to be the most accurate...

[openbook]

I started out with the Lee 452-228-1R mould and wheelweights pert near fifty years ago. It worked well and accuracy was acceptable. Dan Cash introduced me to the truncated cone design bullets back in the mid 80s and that has been my choice ever since. Accuracy is excellent, as good as any cast bullet. It feeds and functions flawlessly in everything I own.

310331

Would you mind sharing your load? I have the same Lee 230 grain truncated cone bullet. Love the bullet. But about every 15 to 20 rounds on average I will get a jam. I am shooting 4.4 grains Titegroup, pan-lubed sized .452 and tumble-lubed. I'm a new 1911 shooter so still learning. My factory Colt Series 70 Mk IV GCNM has about 400 rounds through it at this point.

Various ideas I am working through one at a time include: raising the charge (I am a few grains from max); increasing the taper crimp; seating the boolit out farther; and/or polishing the feed ramp.

Thanks, openbook

[txbirdman]

The big key with that bullet is the COAL. For my Combat Commander it has to be about 1.180 to function properly. Play around with the length a little and I’ll bet you’ll find the sweet spot in your pistol.

[openbook]

The big key with that bullet is the COAL. For my Combat Commander it has to be about 1.180 to function properly. Play around with the length a little and I’ll bet you’ll find the sweet spot in your pistol.
Thanks!

[Doughty]

openbook, you don't say what type of "jams" you're getting, but with semi-auto pistols, the question that always pops up is, "What about the magazine(s)?"

[centershot]

openbook, you don't say what type of "jams" you're getting, but with semi-auto pistols, the question that always pops up is, "What about the magazine(s)?"

This is a common problem with semi-auto pistols. Also, you say you are relatively new to the 45 ACP, so I extend some advice - you said you get a "jam" every 15-20 shots, if that happens regardless of which magazine is in use at that time, you might be relaxing your wrist on that shot. A SA pistol needs to be held firmly, with a tight wrist, in order to allow the slide to cycle correctly. This is a common problem amongst newcomers and one you mist work to overcome. A "limp wrist" is a jam waiting to happen.

[openbook]

openbook, you don't say what type of "jams" you're getting, but with semi-auto pistols, the question that always pops up is, "What about the magazine(s)?"

Doughty, the jam I'm getting is a failure to feed, with the cartridge hung up either nose-up, or, less often, fishtailed, and the slide about 1/2" to 3/4" from closed. I remove the magazine and rack the slide; the cartridges will either fall out through the mag well or slide into the chamber.


This is a common problem with semi-auto pistols. Also, you say you are relatively new to the 45 ACP, so I extend some advice - you said you get a "jam" every 15-20 shots, if that happens regardless of which magazine is in use at that time, you might be relaxing your wrist on that shot. A SA pistol needs to be held firmly, with a tight wrist, in order to allow the slide to cycle correctly. This is a common problem amongst newcomers and one you mist work to overcome. A "limp wrist" is a jam waiting to happen.

Thanks, that's good to be aware of. Now I understand that trying to shoot Bullseye-style is not a great way to test for feeding. I'll try another batch of 50 with a firm two-hand grip and see if that improves things.

I am by habit a rifle shooter, where the emphasis is on natural point of aim and applying as little muscle to the gun as possible.

[gunwonk]

Doughty, the jam I'm getting is a failure to feed, with the cartridge hung up either nose-up, or, less often, fishtailed, and the slide about 1/2" to 3/4" from closed.
When that happened to me, the problem was that my loaded .45 cartridge was too LONG, so when the bullet nose bumped up against the top of the chamber, the case rim wasn't quite clear of the magazine lips, and the cartridge couldn't tip up to get the rest of the way into the chamber.

[Kosh75287]

The things that occur to me are that you could have too little taper-crimp, and the still partially-flared case mouth is not going all the way to end of the chamber. The OTHER possibility is TOO MUCH taper crimp, and the case is bulged behind the case mouth, having essentially the same effect. Since your rounds tend to fall into the chamber when you rack the slide to clear a jam, I'm guessing the crimp is at or near where it needs to be.
I agree with GUNWONK, that it sounds like your rounds may be a shade too long.
When seating the 200 gr. LSWCs, there is a "rule of thumb(nail)", often used to get proper seating depth. The "rule" is to seat the bullet so that the driving band protrudes ~1/32", or about the thickness of a thumbnail, above the case mouth. If seating in this way does not give good function, a minor adjustment, one way or the other, certainly will.
I am not aware of any similar rule for LRN bullets, except that I'VE never obtained reliable functioning at the maximum overall length (1.275"). For no reason in particular, I seem to remember that I got better function when I shortened my rounds by ~20/1000ths of an inch.
Lastly, I'D recommend the use of a separate taper crimp die, for removing the bell in the case mouth in a separate step. When I switched to one of these for reloading .38/.357 and .45 ACP, my malfunctions vanished, and my group sizes dropped by 1/3rd. Redding makes one, and I think Forster does. BOTH excellent additions to reloading equipment.

[openbook]

The things that occur to me are that you could have too little taper-crimp, and the still partially-flared case mouth is not going all the way to end of the chamber. The OTHER possibility is TOO MUCH taper crimp, and the case is bulged behind the case mouth, having essentially the same effect. Since your rounds tend to fall into the chamber when you rack the slide to clear a jam, I'm guessing the crimp is at or near where it needs to be.
I agree with GUNWONK, that it sounds like your rounds may be a shade too long.
When seating the 200 gr. LSWCs, there is a "rule of thumb(nail)", often used to get proper seating depth. The "rule" is to seat the bullet so that the driving band protrudes ~1/32", or about the thickness of a thumbnail, above the case mouth. If seating in this way does not give good function, a minor adjustment, one way or the other, certainly will.
I am not aware of any similar rule for LRN bullets, except that I'VE never obtained reliable functioning at the maximum overall length (1.275"). For no reason in particular, I seem to remember that I got better function when I shortened my rounds by ~20/1000ths of an inch.
Lastly, I'D recommend the use of a separate taper crimp die, for removing the bell in the case mouth in a separate step. When I switched to one of these for reloading .38/.357 and .45 ACP, my malfunctions vanished, and my group sizes dropped by 1/3rd. Redding makes one, and I think Forster does. BOTH excellent additions to reloading equipment.


When that happened to me, the problem was that my loaded .45 cartridge was too LONG, so when the bullet nose bumped up against the top of the chamber, the case rim wasn't quite clear of the magazine lips, and the cartridge couldn't tip up to get the rest of the way into the chamber.


Thanks for these ideas. The OAL txbirdman suggested is actually a bit longer than I am currently running for this 230 gr TC boolit, so I have one recommendation to go longer and a couple examples of needing to go shorter, the bottom line being that length is something to experiment with. I have a Lee factory crimp die that I'm using as a separate taper crimping die.

I have several good suggestions to try: a stronger hold; adjusting crimp; and adjusting OAL. If none of those work I'll start slowly upping the charge, and as a last resort I might polish the feed ramp. But I'll blame the gun last. Hopefully I haven't hijacked this thread too much.

[bruce381]

I started out with the Lee 452-228-1R mould and wheelweights pert near fifty years ago. It worked well and accuracy was acceptable. Dan Cash introduced me to the truncated cone design bullets back in the mid 80s and that has been my choice ever since. Accuracy is excellent, as good as any cast bullet. It feeds and functions flawlessly in everything I own.

310331

I shoot only SWC but that's a nice looking Bullet good job I may try that what mold is that?

[Rapier]

The Lyman #2 alloy was created for cartridges like the 38 SPL and the 45 ACP. Under 900 fps it works just fine. For paper and plinking that is all you need.