Swedish Mauser M96 35 Whelen Project

[brasshog]

My buddy came across this beaten old gun in a pawn shop in Mississippi. The synthetic stock was busted at the front bolt and the front bolt was sheared off at the receiver. I suspect that someone was using a lead sled or something that didn't allow free recoil and caused it but who knows for sure.

The rifle is dated 1919 and has a 20" 35 Whelen barrel installed. The maker is written on the underside and says "C R Pedersen & Son". The trigger is a "Bold" model. I added a Bell & Carlson aluminum bedded stock, free floated and glass bed the barrel, & adjusted the trigger to about 2 1/2-3 lbs. The scope mount pattern is not one that allowed for me to attach a picatinny or weaver rail. I tried some high Tilley mounts that fit but the bolt contacted the scope heavily. I contacted Murphy Precision and had them make me a custom stainless rail and coat it. I installed a set of Burris extra high mounts and now I can cycle it. The scope is a Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x50 with illuminated dot (V-Brite MOA Reticle).

I intend on using cast boolits in this one almost exclusively due to the fact that it is a small ring mauser. I have a MP mold that is the copy of the RCBS-35-200 with hollow points and have cast them using some 93-4-4 lead. The BHN as cast was around 11 BHN. I tried to measure the twist in the barrel and the best that I have come up with is approximately 1 in 14 twist.

Lastly, I ordered a new set of receiver bolts from Midway. The front bolt head was too wide so I put it in my drill and applied sandpaper until it fit. I kept the original rear bolt as the rear bolt was also too wide and it was easier to just re-use the old one for now.

Before
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Currently
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[brasshog]

Here are some additional pictures

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[LAGS]

Isn't the Swedish 96 a shorter lengthy action than a Model 98 Mauser.
I have a Czech 98/22 that I rebarreled to .35 Whelen.
I was going to do another on a Yugo 24/47 action.
But that action also is shorter than standard 98's.
So If I can get it to feed properly on the shorter action , I would be limited to the length of bullets I could shoot out of it.
My .35 Whelen shoots very good with 250 gr Boolits , both jacketed and cast.
I think if I had used the Yugo action , I would be limited to using 180 gr cast or maybe the 200 gr cast with the flat nose.
I did not build the rifle,on that Yugo action, so I could be wrong.

[brasshog]

I believe that you are correct. There are four sized of mauser actions. The small ring mauser is 0.250" shorter than the standard model 98 action. I can seat 250gr bullets in this rifle depending on the ogive. Also, the mauser 98 is a cock on opening whereas this is a cock on closing bolt. A mauser 98K would have been perfect for a rebuild but someone else did not go that route.

I have some fired brass that doesn't show any pressure signs with factory 200gr ammo however I intend to work up loads slowly. If I start getting issues then this rifle may get rebarreled back to 6.5x55. I simply have too much money into this project to scrap it lol.

Here are some of my measurements from left to right:
1) Mihec copy of RCBS 35-200 (190gr Large Hollow Point)-2.994" COAL
2) Accurate Molds 36-240K (240gr Solid)-2.999" COAL
3) Hornady 250gr Interlok-3.258" Coal (Does not fit magazine and/or ejection port)
4) Hornady 250gr Spire Point-3.084" COAL
5) Nosler 250gr Partition-3.222" COAL (Barely fits)
6) Speer 250gr HCSP Hot Core-3.220 COAL
7) Hornady 200gr factory load-3.101" COAL
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These measurements were conducted by inserting the bullet into the fired brass and slowly closing the bolt. The round was then loaded into the magazine. If the round was too long it was noted. I also attempted to eject said rounds to see if they cleared the ejection port area and noted if they had any issues. I do not remember if I made the rounds fit the magazine afterwards but I can check if anyone is curious.

[missionary5155]

I would consider a 6.5-308. Never have a brass issue.

[brasshog]

@missionary5155 Good idea. Perhaps 7mm-08 would be even better with the availability of both factory brass and a huge array of projectiles. I have a custom 358 Win that should be finished this month so I don't "need" a 35 whelen lol but it's nice to have. This is my spare hunting rifle for family and friends to use and/or just shooting cast boolits in. My two main guns for hunting are the 358 Win and a 300 Weatherby magnum.

[racepres]

@missionary5155 Good idea. Perhaps 7mm-08 would be even better with the availability of both factory brass and a huge array of projectiles. I have a custom 358 Win that should be finished this month so I don't "need" a 35 whelen lol but it's nice to have. This is my spare hunting rifle for family and friends to use and/smokeless powderor just shooting cast boolits in. My two main guns for hunting are the 358 Win and a 300 Weatherby magnum.
Yea...the '08 class is a good one for that and Cast.. or... I have a Military stepped 7X57 that looks real good inside, and out.. Maybe a Trade??
as I have a Turk that could use that barrel!!!
Right now the Turk wears an 8X57 that is OK... 7x57 would have been Good there... but I have a Small Ring in military trim that shoots It's 7X57 well...

[eastbank]

a friend has a 9.3x57 on a 96 swede action with no problems, i think he gets 2100-2200 fps with 250 gr bullets. i don,t think i would build a 96 in .35 whelen.

[Larry Gibson]

If you rebarrel you might consider the 35x57. Since you already have the Whelen dies they are shortened and used to form and then load the cases. Using 8x57 cases is the easiest as all you do is run them through the shortened FL die. Of course, the 35x57s can be formed from '06 cases or 35 Whelen cases. If the barrel is ordered in 35 Rem then all that is needed is a 35 Whelen die to finish chamber and headspace on the formed cases.

The 35x57 is the correct length for the M96 action. The formed cases will also have the correct taper to feed smoothly and positively in the Mauser action without any alteration to the feed rails. The longer neck of the Whelen case makes it perfect for cast bullets to keep the lube grooves inside the neck. The oal of loaded cartridges, even with the longer 250 gr SP jacked bullets, is correct for the M96 magazine. The 35x57 case has the same case capacity as the 358W so load data for the 358W can be used. There is no factory cartridge as such so the psi level of loads is up to you. With a 14" twist barrel quality GC'd cast bullets can be driven upwards of 2500 fps with slower burning powders and maintain excellent hunting accuracy yet still remain in the lower 50,000 psi range. The 35x57 is an excellent cartridge for Mauser actions.

You might consider converting the rifle to cock on closing.

[hc18flyer]

Seriously consider Larry's suggestion. He suggested it to me a few years ago for a 96 action, now I wish I had taken his advise. I ended up going with 8 x 57, still a fine cartridge, but I prefer .35 for cast bullets. hc18flyer

[racepres]

Seriously consider Larry's suggestion. He suggested it to me a few years ago for a 96 action, now I wish I had taken his advise. I ended up going with 8 x 57, still a fine cartridge, but I prefer .35 for cast bullets. hc18flyer

Allow me to second this.. Tho my 35 Remington Mauser works really well, I wish I would have gone 35X57...way back then..
Good part??? Now I also have an 8X57!! But, Still prefer .358

[brasshog]

@Larry Gibson- You are definitely on to something there Larry. I really hope that I don't need to rebarrel or rechamber this rifle. My current project rifle's barrel (358 Win) is costing me around $1100 to rebarrel and coat. Heck, I already have $1220 in this project as it is.

[racepres]

@Larry Gibson- You are definitely on to something there Larry. I really hope that I don't need to rebarrel or rechamber this rifle. My current project rifle's barrel (358 Win) is costing me around $1100 to rebarrel and coat. Heck, I already have $1220 in this project as it is.

Ouch... You better just trade barrels with me.. the 7X57 won't hurt that action you have one bit!!!
LOL

[Larry Gibson]

@Larry Gibson- You are definitely on to something there Larry. I really hope that I don't need to rebarrel or rechamber this rifle. My current project rifle's barrel (358 Win) is costing me around $1100 to rebarrel and coat. Heck, I already have $1220 in this project as it is.

Wow, "ouch" is right. $1100 seems a bit expensive to me and a Shilen 26" Pre-threaded, short chambered stainless barrel is maybe &400 +/-. There are other less expensive barrel makers also. Can't see where having a pre-threaded barrel screwed on the action [there should be minimal if any machine work needed] and finish reamed plus "coat" should cost $700(?). All that's needed is a barrel vise/action wrench, rented 35 Whelen finish reamer w/T-handle. The formed cartridges are the headspace gauges. No lathe work should be needed. Larry Potterfield has a decent video demonstrating how relatively easy it is.

Not saying you need to rebarrel, just mentioning a good solution if you do. Hopefully that fine rifle should shoot well as is, especially with cast bullets.

[brasshog]

I sent the barreled action (new rifle) to Hart barrels last January. Yes....over a year wait. The barrel isn't a pre-threaded barrel from another company from what I have read. They custom make each rifle barrel in house I believe. They are removing the 26" bull barrel (22-250) and replacing it with the 20" heavy sporter barrel made of stainless. They are cerakoating the entire rifle because I dislike the stainless barrels on blued receivers. I added that because it wasn't until after I had shipped the rifle that I realized that it was not a carbon barrel. The cerakoating is going to be something like $350.

[405grain]

First off, to the OP: you've got a very nice rifle. Thanks for posting about it.

I just came across this thread so I've got some answers for the first few posts on it. The original stock broke at the forward action screw, and the action screw sheared off, because the recoil lug on the bottom of the receiver wasn't in contact with the recoil abutment on the stock. One of the advantages of glass bedding a stock is so that the receiver's recoil lug is in contact with this abutment, and the recoil forces aren't being transmitted into the action screws or the stock's wrist.

Both the small ring Mauser's and the large ring Mauser's were designed to use Mauser cartridges. About the only actions that I know of (and there are bound to be more) that were modified to accept longer cartridges were the 1893 Turkish Mausers, and Colombian 98 Mausers when these rifles had a notch ground into the back of the forward receiver ring so that they could load 8x57 and 30-06 cartridges respectively. As a general rule: Mauser cartridges will fit into either large or small ring actions.

There were three basic differences between Swedish actions and other small ring actions. First is metallurgy. Even the Swedish actions that were produced in Germany were made from imported steel that contained some nickle content. While most other small ring actions were made from carbon steel, the Swedish actions were made from an iron/nickle steel. The second difference is the bolt guide ridge on the bolt. This ridge, which is a common feature on all 98 actions, was first employed on the Swedish actions. The third distinguishing feature is the cocking piece with the weird lug sticking up from it. Why!? If they were going to have that knurled projection sticking up out of the cocking piece at least they should have made it double as a can opener.

After those first posts the thread shifted into (good) suggestions about what to do, and how to do it. I don't have much to add in that regard so I'm just going to get a bag of popcorn and watch.

[racepres]

If you do Not wish to re-barrel, nor re-chamber what you have... Quit putting factory fodder thru it... tho it is oft quoted that Swedish steel is some magically strong stuff, I cannot accept that it can make any Small Ring strong enough to digest 35 Whelens.. Not something I would Do..
get some 200 or 230 rf gas checked Boolits, and find a Low to midrange load... I start at Red Dot.
my $0.03

[porthos]

concerning larry's sugestion to convert to cocking on closing. i have read this often; but what is the advantage to doing that? i have 3 swedes a standard, a marksman and a G 63

[racepres]

If you do Not wish to re-barrel, nor re-chamber what you have... don't put Any factory fodder thru it... tho it is oft quoted that Swedish steel is some magically strong stuff, I cannot accept that it can make any Small Ring strong enough to digest 35 Whelens.. Not something I would Do..
get some 200 or 230 rf gas checked Boolits, and find a Low to midrange load... I start at Red Dot.
Checking a couple of my small ring actions... there will Not be any proper feeding of '06 length brass in them...
some Turk small ring barrel shank, large ring actions, balk at '06, and Fail with 270....
Set the barrel back and go 9.3X57 (which is what Larry is Doing, except with readily available components), and Not rechambered...just set back...
my $0.03

[Larry Gibson]

A Hart barrel, Now I understand the cost. I doubt you'll need to rebarrel...... It should be an excellent shooter.

[brasshog]

@405Grain- Thanks for the additional information

@racepres- I agree with you on the factory ammo. I intend on using the soft cast 200gr style hollow points and maybe the accurate 240gr at no where near max velocity and/or pressure. If I can find a medium velocity load that also expands a hollow point then that would be perfect but I am happy with solids. These small Florida deer wouldn't know the difference between 35 Rem or whelen when hit lol. I am not in any way trying to make this rifle into something it isn't such as a large game rifle. That is what my weatherby is for. If this was a 98K then that might be different.

As far as all of the suggestions on calibers and such for a rebarrel I do appreciate the suggestions and will consider many of these options if it comes down to it. I want to see IF this rifle is safe to fire in it's current cartridge and make changes as necessary. I do have my reservations concerning the strength of the action even though I love swedish mausers and will proceed with caution. Seeing that it has handled factory loads in the past without any issues it does give me enough reassurance that mild to medium cast loads "may" be safe in it. Again, this is a spare rifle that will not see a ton of range time and I do not have any issue shelving it until later if major changes need to be made. I intend to use my 358 win with a 1 in 12 twist for cast boolits and the occasional jwords for almost everything.

[brasshog]

@porthos- If memory serves me right the advantage that I am aware of is the caming action required to open the bolt in extreme cold weather. If it cocks on opening it may be difficult to open in well below freezing temps which is a concern if your large or dangerous game hunting in say Alaska during the winter and you need a fast second shot on a bear or moose that is coming in close. I don't have that issue here. I remember reading a few stories years back about hunters who needed that second shot and the action was froze shut due to a lube freezing and thus requiring a second firearm needing to come into play for defense. It may also be of benefit for cocking on closing if your action is dirty and the round is sticky but I don't know just how dirty it would have to be to cause an issue that would be solved with this modification.

@Larry Gibson- I don't have anything such as dies for the 35 Whelen yet. My buddy is having one built atm and he has the dies but as of yet I don't have a dog in the fight for this cartridge. I prefer 358 Win over 35 Whelen myself and already have 1600+ processed cases waiting on its arrival. Anything that needs a 35 whelen for that extra oomph to kill I can use my 300 wby on or the 378 wby that I hope to purchase later on this year for.

[ulav8r]

A 35 Whelan, 7mm Mauser, and 358 Winchester are all loaded to about the same pressure in most factory ammo and all have the same head diameter. Therefore the back pressure on the bolt will be the same on all of them and it does not matter which one is used so far as action strength goes. Fit of the action to the stock and the stock strength will matter somewhat as the recoil increases , but the action itself does not care about the recoil. What matters is how well the cartridge feeds out of the magazine, when comparing the different cartridges.

When thinking about action strength, any of the *x57 cartridges from 6x57 to 9.3x57 exert the same force on the action, same as any 06 based cartridge loaded to the same pressure. I have not researched all the 06/57 based SAAMI and CIP specs for pressure, as that would take hours or days but do not believe that many of them will be more than 15% or more than the 8x57 military loads that were commonly used by various armies over the years and I believe Mauser actions have more than a 25% safety factor, though some handle gas leakage better than others. YMMV, but it you have any doubts about the strength of any action for a given cartridge, then compare the published specs for the pressure of the cartridge the gun was designed for versus the specs for your desired cartridge.

[brasshog]

@ulav8r- Thanks for the info. I guess that the reason I am doubting it any is because of the SAAMI pressure differences between the 6.5x55 (51,000 psi) that the rifle was originally chambered in and the current chambering at 62,000 psi. That is roughly an 18% increase in pressure already from what I see at a glance on the net.

[jonp]

If you have hunted in extreme cold you most likely know the benefits of cleaning all lube out of your action and keeping the rifle outside for the duration of the hunt to avoid the lube problem.

[Uncle Grinch]

I believe you are pushing the limits of the Swedish Mauser action with the 35 Whelen, both in pressure and cartridge length. Pick a more reasonable cartridge that is suitable for this action, specifically something in the X57 family. I’ve got a Husqvarna Swede action that is chambered in 9.3x57 and it throws a real chunk of lead (286 grain cast). You can make brass from 8x57 and Hornady has dies at Grafs.

[racepres]

@ulav8r- Thanks for the info. I guess that the reason I am doubting it any is because of the SAAMI pressure differences between the 6.5x55 (51,000 psi) that the rifle was originally chambered in and the current chambering at 62,000 psi. That is roughly an 18% increase in pressure already from what I see at a glance on the net.
But...since you already have a reload Plan... Moot

Looked at it again...and from what little I see.. If (big word) If it has feed issues, setting the barrel back to X57 length...shorten your 35 Whelen Dies.. push yer shoulder back and trim... In Other words...Larry's Cartridge!!!
Least expensive, and maintain Component availability..
No Feed Issues??? Load er up and have fun!!!

[Larry Gibson]

The European MAP for the 6.5 Swede is 55,000 psi.

If by SAAMI standards U.S. ammunition companies do not load to the MAP for the cartridge. They load to a specified/advertised (a much larger +/- fps than we might guess) velocity using non cannister powder of a specific lot [usually purchased in thousands of pounds if not tons]. The pressure measurement is done to ensure the loaded cartridges will not exceed SAAMI specifications, especially the MPLM psi standard for the cartridge. If the load velocity falls within the +/- velocity specification and is under the MPLM then it is probably loaded. Thus, the actual MAP of the loaded cartridge is usually less than the SAAMI MAP.

As an example; In my own M96 6.5x55 I have pressure tested numerous different loads and have found PVI, Hornady, Winchester and Remington factory ammunition with 139/140 gr bullets run 2250 to 2450 fps out of my M36 at 36,000 to 40,000 psi. The velocity range is within the advertised velocities but with the slower burning powders used the psi is considerably lower than the SAAMI 51,000 MAP. Now had the manufacturers used a powder similar in burn rate to the Nobel powder [such as 3031 - 4895 in burn rate] with which the 6.5x55 was developed for military use the psi would have been closer to the CIP MAP of 55,000 psi.

I load 120, 129 and 140 gr jacketed SP in my M96 with slow burning powders such as AA4350, IMR 4350 and H4831SC achieving 2700 - 2900+ fps while staying in the 54,000 to 55,000 psi range. That's what I do and I'm not advocating that for anyone else. Not saying it isn't safe either because I believe, after shooting two thousand+ such loads over the last 12 years, it is quite safe in the M96.

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However, the OPs M96 has what is probably an excellent Hart barrel on it chambered in 35 Whelen. Since he has said he is sticking to cast bullet loads psi's higher than 51,000 or even 55,000 psi are really not probable. Especially since he is well versed with loading the same cast bullets in his 358W rifle. He should find his 35 Whelen to be an excellent shooter and I wish him good shooting with it.

[brasshog]

Hi Larry. The Hart barrel is on my Howa 1500 action that is currently being built. The barrel on the M96 is a C.R Pedersen & Son. I apologize if I muddied the conversation talking about the 358 Win project. I have $1220 invested in the completed M96 35 Whelen project and the 358 rebarrel and coating is $1100 atm. That's not including the new wood stock, glass bedding, pillar bedding, timney trigger, scope, rings, base, and scope for the 358 win. The total cost for the 358 will be slightly over $2,000 in the end.

[racepres]

Hi Larry. The Hart barrel is on my Howa 1500 action that is currently being built. The barrel on the M96 is a C.R Pedersen & Son. I apologize if I muddied the conversation talking about the 358 Win project. I have $1220 invested in the completed M96 35 Whelen project and the 358 rebarrel and coating is $1100 atm. That's not including the new wood stock, glass bedding, pillar bedding, timney trigger, scope, rings, base, and scope for the 358 win. The total cost for the 358 will be slightly over $2,000 in the end.

C.R Pedersen & Son, was a well respected Gunsmith located in Ludington MI. Not too far at all from where I was born and raised.. Strictly High End Stuff, Custom built Firearms was a Specialty!!! I seldom was In the place... But always came out wide eyed.

[brasshog]

I had researched them a little when I received the rifle and saw that most of what little info that I found was in reference to them producing good quality stuff.

[brasshog]

This is the currently proposed load based upon the components that I have at hand at the moment. Otherwise I'll need to go hunt down some stuff. This is for the RCBS 200gr clone. Keeping the ceiling of 50K PSI just for safety reasons. I'm thinking of starting at 38.0gr and working to my proposed max of 44.0gr of IMR4198 (just because I have some). I know that many may not want to say that it is "safe" but does anyone see anything unsafe with my proposed starting load ? Thanks.
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[racepres]

Don't see the Why of more than 38.0 Grains... But..The gun can handle it Me Thinks
Do you think your Boolit can perform at really High Velocity??
Edit; Look Here maybe https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?48532-35-Whelen-and-H4198

[brasshog]

@racepres-I started with Lyman 47 data and double checked it on the program. Lyman actually had a max of 48.0+ for a 204gr lead pill (lyman #358315) at 2678 fps hence why I plugged it into the computer. I have no desire for speed in this combo. If it kills deer at say 150 yards and has decent accuracy (moa) then the velocity is moot for me. A charge of 38.0gr of IMR 4198 would give me 2142 fps and 2063 lbs of energy at roughly 33.6K psi pressure per the data. That is close to 35 Rem data and is more than enough for anything around here at a reasonable distance and would be a lot safer than a factory 35 Whelen load in this rifle. I believe that most people on here that hunt wouldn't have a problem (ethically speaking) with this bullet combo in a 35 Rem rifle for hunting. I think our hogs here weigh more than our deer lol. Thanks for the link

[racepres]

@racepres-I started with Lyman 47 data and double checked it on the program. Lyman actually had a max of 48.0+ for a 204gr lead pill (lyman #358315) at 2678 fps hence why I plugged it into the computer. I have no desire for speed in this combo. If it kills deer at say 150 yards and has decent accuracy (moa) then the velocity is moot for me. A charge of 38.0gr of IMR 4198 would give me 2142 fps and 2063 lbs of energy at roughly 33.6K psi pressure per the data. That is close to 35 Rem data and is more than enough for anything around here at a reasonable distance and would be a lot safer than a factory 35 Whelen load in this rifle. I believe that most people on here that hunt wouldn't have a problem (ethically speaking) with this bullet combo in a 35 Rem rifle for hunting. I think our hogs here weigh more than our deer lol. Thanks for the link

Having used that Boolit, in a 98 Mauser, Chambered in 35 Remington, at 2100 fps or so.. I guess I can't figger why anyone would need more...No Elephants in my part of the Rhubarb Patch!!!

[Ford SD]

I do not know how much you like recoil but that load Will KICK at top loading that you plan to try

I am shooting a 35 whelen 9-1/2 pound rifle ... but with some 158g and some 230g cast and up over 14 on the recoil scale and it starts to not be fun

the Lyman Cast # 4 list a Lyman 204g with your powder but only goes up tp 37.5g ..... @2097fps @31200psi

By the pressure etc you can go higher but do you like recoil ?

I am using reduced cast loads with dacron 60 to 80% fill ratio depending on powder ....

I like to keep fill ration High 60-70% or higher with a dacron filler

I am also using GRT

Having fun punching paper with pistol bullets in the 35 whelen


This is the currently proposed load based upon the components that I have at hand at the moment. Otherwise I'll need to go hunt down some stuff. This is for the RCBS 200gr clone. Keeping the ceiling of 50K PSI just for safety reasons. I'm thinking of starting at 38.0gr and working to my proposed max of 44.0gr of IMR4198 (just because I have some). I know that many may not want to say that it is "safe" but does anyone see anything unsafe with my proposed starting load ? Thanks.
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[brasshog]

@Ford SD-I find that I like recoil less and less as I age hence why I traded off my BFR 45-70 revolver and my steel buttplate High Wall in 45-70. Those 475 gr pills kick in a revolver lol. My normal rifle is the 300 Weatherby Magnum (no compensator) in a eleven pound rifle so a heavy 35 whelen load is "lighter" in recoil for me personally. Btw this M96 rifle weighs in at 8.8 lbs. Again this is a spare rifle that won't see much range time other than a load development for hunting. The 358 win is going to be used for almost everything in the future.

[ulav8r]

Load it to suit you, but I see no need to exceed 358 Win ballistics unless hunting elk or moose at 400 yards.

[405grain]

As a general rule, you will probably get your best accuracy with cast bullets under 2000 fps. You can go faster, and by doing load development you can find the point where accuracy drops off. But, if you begin your loads at too high of a velocity, and the bullets are already past their best velocity/accuracy mark, you might be falsely lead to believe that the rifle isn't as accurate as it actually is. I generally start developing my loads at around 1850 fps, then work up from there.

If your intended shooting goals are mainly hunting, then there are some things that you should know about cast bullets. On jacketed bullets the copper jacket is many times harder than the lead core. It takes a lot more velocity to get a jacketed bullet to expand properly. Cast bullets have no jacket, so they expand properly at velocities up to 1000 fps lower than jacketed bullets. For cast hunting bullets the meplat is king. Pointy cast bullets might pencil through game without transferring lots of energy to the animal. Cast bullets with a flatter front surface will transfer more shock when it penetrates the game. This requires a good balance between trajectory, velocity, accuracy, and terminal performance when selecting a cast hunting bullet. The most important factor (IMHO) is accuracy, as getting a solid hit in the vitals has a greater effect on a successful hunt that speed or power.

Last thing: In GRT, when you click on the "magnifying glass" to look up projectiles, you will see two lists: the GRT Database, and the Users Database. If you select the Users Database, then click the "new" button, you can then enter information for cast bullets that aren't included in the GRT database. I've used this feature to load a couple of Saeco bullets into the User Database. You will need to look up or measure information like ballistic coefficient, length, seating depth, weight, etc., but you are able to add new bullets yourself.

[brasshog]

@405grain-Thanks for all of the info. I intend to eventually test my rcbs clone boolits in gel to see what's really going on. These that I have cast are soft enough to expand at a slow velocity with the large hollowpoint and perhaps get the solids, small HP, and cup points to expand at a reasonable velocity. I chose the rcbs clone for it's reputation on deer and hogs for a starting boolit. It seems to have a good balance in the meplate and ogive for the intended purpose but I may try some wider "sledgehammer" style molds in the future. The other option is the Accurate 36-240K mold if it turns out that it likes heavier projectiles. I'm still learning the GRT database stuff and appreciate the pointers on it.

[brasshog]

Today was range day and it was not a good day lol. My local range has gone cheap and replaced the target stands with ropes thus allowing the target to move and sway in the wind. Add that with the fact that what seamed like every person in the county with an AR platform rifle and huge compensator that thought they were gonna rapid fire while bumping the bench was crammed next to me on the now only four 100 yard shooting lanes.

To the nitty gritty...I started with 37.0gr of IMR 4198 and worked my way to 44.0 grains in five shot groups. There are no pictures of groups in this post because someone tossed my target. At 37gr the group was about eight inches wide and at 38.0gr it dropped down to four inches. The rifle hated charges 39.0, 40.0gr, and 41gr throwing everything over five inches. I assumed that the groups were widening and I was off target by charge group 42.0 but in fact I later learned that the whole group was shifting to the left. I tried some kentucky windage and confirmed this but was out of ammo at this point. A charge of 43-44gr proved to be a lot tighter even when using kentucky windage so I will revisit this area as well as the 38.0 grouping.

Here is the hard data:
Barrel Length-18"
Barrel Twist-Approximately 1/14"
COAL:2.992"
Formed 30-06 Brass Trimmed To 2.484"
Powder: IMR 4198
Solid Crimp
Exterior Temp:79°F
Humidity:34%
Approximately 100' Above Sea Level
Primers: CCI NO.34 Large Rifle
Boolit: Mi-HEC clone of RCBS-35-200 (202gr) cast from 94-3-3 (BHN-11) with homemade aluminum .014" gas check
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Charge/Average Velocity/Mean Spread/Comments On Remaining Shots In Group
37.0gr-2046fps 253fps spread/9 shots (six errors on chrony)
38.0gr-2105fps 178fps spread/4 shots (one error on chrony)
39.0gr- 2139fps 33fps spread-5 shots
40.0gr- 2252fps 115fps spread-5 shots
41.0gr- 2302fps 162fps spread-4 shots (one misfire/dud)
42.0gr- 2392fps 117fps spread-5 shots
43.0gr- 2400fps 110fps spread-5 shots
44.0gr- 2484fps 230fps spread-4 shots (last shot not recorded)

Notes- The mauser really dents a primer in a solid manner. One primer from the 42.0gr charges was punctured completely. There were two rounds that needed to be fired a second time including the dud that did no fire on the third try. This rifle does not like to extract Federal factory 35 Whelen brass from the chamber. Federal brass require a rod to lightly tap out after firing.

[Ford SD]

Here is the hard data:
Barrel Length-18"
Barrel Twist-Approximately 1/14"
COAL:2.992"
Formed 30-06 Brass Trimmed To 2.484"
Powder: IMR 4198
Solid Crimp
Exterior Temp:79°F
Humidity:34%
Approximately 100' Above Sea Level
Primers: CCI NO.34 Large Rifle
Boolit: Mi-HEC clone of RCBS-35-200 (202gr) cast from 94-3-3 (BHN-11) with homemade aluminum .014" gas check


Charge/Average Velocity/Mean Spread/Comments On Remaining Shots In Group
37.0gr-2046fps 253fps spread/9 shots (six errors on chrony)
38.0gr-2105fps 178fps spread/4 shots (one error on chrony)
39.0gr- 2139fps 33fps spread-5 shots
40.0gr- 2252fps 115fps spread-5 shots
41.0gr- 2302fps 162fps spread-4 shots (one misfire/dud)
42.0gr- 2392fps 117fps spread-5 shots
43.0gr- 2400fps 110fps spread-5 shots
44.0gr- 2484fps 230fps spread-4 shots (last shot not recorded)



The 35 whelen is a lot of fun... How is the shoulder :)
Let me make a couple of out of left field guesses ...... your Federal brass empty weight is around 200g

Rpm of your top load is 120000 rpm so that is getting up there near the estimated max of 140k (Estimated for a cast bullet)

With GRT your top load is around 48k pressure not dangerous but it is getting up there, so that pressure and maybe a tiny bit of a rough chamber & maybe a bit of a worn extractor = sticking brass

311304

[brasshog]

@Ford SD- My factory once fired Federal 35 Whelen brass weighs an average of 206gr each and the 30-06 Federal that I opened up also weighs over 200gr. All other converted brass made from various manufacturers are under 200gr in weight. The empty factory once fired 35 Whelen and 30-06 Federal brass load easily but stick with a clean chamber when tested. Surprisingly the Federal nickle brass gave me no issues of the three consecutive rounds that I fired (225 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw) and they were definitely the hottest rounds fired. Recoil was very soft on all cast rounds. The factory Federal 200gr and 225 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw ammo that I also fired kick substantially more. Cast rounds were calculated at 18lbs recoil which is mild by my standards. It's nowhere near my 300 Weatherby lol. Even at 10.5lbs weight that baby kicks like a pissed off mule on meth. Recoil velocity between the whelen and the weatherby is quite different making the whelen quite pleasant to shoot.