Is SPG Lube OK in Smokeless Cartridges?

[35 Whelen]

I was lubing away tonight when I suddenly realized my lubrisizer was running out of lube. I normally use Rooster Red for everything, but I was out of it. Looking around, I found a few sticks of SPG a kind fellow had given me. The stuff wasn't soft, but wasn't exactly hard. I know it's BP lube, but it said on the package that it'd work in smokeless too. So I broke off about 1/5 of a stick and dropped in my lubrisizer just to help push out my remaining Rooster Red. Will this stuff work for my rifle loads? I primarily use ACWW and WQWW running from 1100-1500 fps.
Thanks,
35W

[dubber123]

IIRC, Mike Venturino did an article on a 10mm handgun years ago and got his best accuracy with SPG. At the velocity you are running, you may be pleasantly surprised. Let us know how it works for you.

[Bret4207]

Some folks like SPG, others despise it. IIRC it's not meant for smokeless. Heck of a mess to clean up if it's doesn't work.

[cajun shooter]

It will work in low velocity loads that would be in the hangun range and Bp rifle. I make my own version and don't find it messy at all. I've heard rumors that it contains lanolin which will shine your bore.

[Harry O]

I use it in low speed (800-1,000fps) smokeless handgun loads all the time. It works better than the harder smokeless lubes in that case. I have not tried it in faster loads since my NRA 50/50 lube works fine for that. I did read an article recently (Handloader mag) where the SPG lube was tried at the speeds you are talking about and it worked fine.

[44man]

Of course Mike pushes it, he has an association with Steve Garbe and might be getting a kickback.
Biggest mistake I ever made was paying for the junk, it left the last 10" of my barrel so full of dried residue, a patch could not be pushed through at the line. Needed a blow tube first. In a few seconds, the moisture from the blow tube would dry so I had to patch fast.
I do not believe there is any lanolin in it.
It should be OK in light loads in short barrels with smokeless.
With black, every single recipe I ever made does better.
By the way, I tried to sell the last of the SPG at our shoot and everyone just laughed at me. I wound up mixing it with all kinds of other stuff.
I shoot with some of the top BPCR shooters in the country, one of which won both open sight and scope at the nationals a while back.
That told me something about SPG, but I was just starting and believed all the crap put out about it.
The story goes that Steve was out of lube and tried Chapstick, said it worked and made lube close to it.
Much testing has been done with BP lubes and the worst groups every time came from two lubes, SPG and Lee Shaver's lube.
Why some of you don't make Felix lube or stock up with Glen's great lubes, baffles me! :confused: And BP lubes are so easy and cheap to make too. Beeswax, safflower oil and lanolin. Beeswax, Balistol and lanolin. Beeswax, Lubeguard and lanolin. I could go on all day and yet guys still pay big bucks for SPG?????? Buy powder instead. :mrgreen:
By the way, Glen makes GREAT PB lubes.

[Bullshop]

Tried NASA?
Now is a good time its on sale.
BIC/BS

[chuebner]

Several years back I tried SPG in comparison to home brews for BPCR similar to what 44man stated. Saw no big difference in performance or accuracy. Only difference is price, like bigtime. Like the guys says, make your own and buy powder.

charlie

[boommer]

I've used it for smokeless loads in handguns and rifles with good results, but never used it warm gas checked loads. I've used with with BP with good results too!plus I have my own lube for BP BUT 35 Whelen just wanted to know if he could get by with using SPG and gets a conspiracy theory on kick backs,a rant and bashing of product. Nice !

[44man]

I've used it for smokeless loads in handguns and rifles with good results, but never used it warm gas checked loads. I've used with with BP with good results too!plus I have my own lube for BP BUT 35 Whelen just wanted to know if he could get by with using SPG and gets a conspiracy theory on kick backs,a rant and bashing of product. Nice !
When something does not work as advertised, it should be bashed. I have spent too much money on junk over the years and sure wish I had the internet back then so I could read the bad stuff. I was a sucker too long to the gun rags and learned the hard way.
If I can keep someone from wasting hard earned money, I am going to do it and I don't care if I ruffle feathers. Making money from friends touting a bad product in magazines just sticks in my craw.
I can picture you shopping for a new gun and posting questions about it. If you get 50 negative responses to every good one and go out and buy the gun anyway---SHAME ON YOU! [smilie=1:
If you read my post you will see I said SPG should work for light smokeless loads but you failed to see that.
If something is not worth the money, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT and since we are here to help each other, I want all of you to bash a bad product too. I get tired of reading between the lines! :-?
I go out of my way to tell the truth and if that is not "NICE", tough! :twisted:

[357maximum]

When something does not work as advertised, it should be bashed. I have spent too much money on junk over the years and sure wish I had the internet back then so I could read the bad stuff. I was a sucker too long to the gun rags and learned the hard way.
If I can keep someone from wasting hard earned money, I am going to do it and I don't care if I ruffle feathers. Making money from friends touting a bad product in magazines just sticks in my craw.
I can picture you shopping for a new gun and posting questions about it. If you get 50 negative responses to every good one and go out and buy the gun anyway---SHAME ON YOU! [smilie=1:
If you read my post you will see I said SPG should work for light smokeless loads but you failed to see that.
If something is not worth the money, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT and since we are here to help each other, I want all of you to bash a bad product too. I get tired of reading between the lines! :-?
I go out of my way to tell the truth and if that is not "NICE", tough! :twisted:









:drinks::drinks:YOU GOT IT ALL DOWN EXACTLY:drinks::drinks: Crap is crap no matter how much you try to polish it...we are here for each other and when something does not work as advertised I see nothing wrong with sharing the simple truth of the matter. I was going to get rich selling BP lube but I cannot seem to get over that 1000 shots before wiping hurdle...but I am working on it:roll:


Persoanlly I have decided to make my own stuff like lubes...then when/if it does not work...I KNOW WHOS TUKKAS NEEDS KIKKING!


THANK YOU MR. 44

[DonH]

Here it is, straight from the horse's mouth. From ASSRA forum.

(quote): SPG works equally well for smokeless or black...I developed it as an "all-purpose" cast bullet lube. We, in fact, sell it to all shooters of cast bullets...pistol, high velocity, CBA'ers, muzzle loaders, ect.

One of the requirements I put on it was that it needed to work in all weather for all my various cast bullet firearms as I was tired of switching from one lube to another in hot or cold temperatures. I worked on this the better part of three years and in the process learned quite a bit about bullet lube.

I'm not saying that SPG will work better than a particular lube in a particular barrel...but it has shown to work in 99% of barrels in 99% of temperatures and I think that is it's real advantage. I've used it exclusively since I developed it in "81-"83 and it has worked well for me. I got Chuck Blender to try it a few years ago and it cured a barrel that he was having trouble with (leading) at Raton, New Mexico.

The true test of any bullet lube is in a cold (less than 30 degrees) temperature with low humidity. Almost any wax or grease will work when humidity is above 50% and temperatures don't exceed about 80 degrees. Cold, dry weather is what will test a lube...as well as black powder fouling.

For those who like to experiment with different ingredients I will offer some cautions that I explored when developing SPG. Using tallow or other animal fats that haven't been purged of salt can be bad medicine for barrels...especially old , pitted barrels. Likewise with beeswax that has not been purged of honey and sugars. Also...the Vaseline that one buys today as well as Crisco is not what it was even just 20 years ago. Oils and fats that are used in food preparation generally have not been purged of salt.

Another answer to a question that I have been asked frequently...yes, I have been using SPG on my rimfire ammo, especially my old Federal stuff. Their rosin-based lube seems to have dried out and here in Wyoming with the low humidity I have noticed much less leading when I use a film of SPG on the bullets.

Another tip...I don't recommned using a micro-wave to melt lube. Use only a double-boiler and if by some chance you have applied direct heat to a lube or scorch it...throw it out. I can guarantee it will not work after over-heating.

I have one funny Charlie Dell story concerning lubes. Years ago Charlie called me up (before we had ever met) and said that he was putting together an archive of bullet lube formulas. He politely requested the formula for SPG and I responded with "Charlie...I'd be glad to tell you what is in it...but then I'd just have to kill you." Charlie got a big kick out of that and we were friends from that point on. I considered Charlie to be a real authority on bullet lubes and everything else "single shot"...and I really miss his good conversation.

Gut Ziel,

Steve (quote)

[Bret4207]

Well, I believe Charley Dell is GreenFrog who posts here. Why not ask him his opinion?

[DonH]

Green Frog is not Charley Dell ( now deceased) but was a close friend of Mr. Dell. Charlie (the Frog) would be honored, I am sure, to be confused with Charlie Dell.

[Green Frog]

What DonH said. I would not in a million years pretend to be Charlie Dell, because it would take me longer than that to catch up with his store of knowledge. I was sometimes referred to as "Charlie II" but that was just so the "family" would know who was being referred to.

The only direct source of Charlie's lube info is through old issues of the ASSRA News (predecessor to the current SSR Journal) or by reading the pertinent chapters in his Modern Schuetzen Rifle book co-written with Wayne Schwartz. I believe Charlie's ultimate formula, which was designed for smokeless powder, lead rifle bullets (plain base) and speeds right about speed of sound is still being produced in limited amounts by one of his other friends. It's pretty hard stuff and contains a saponifying agent to make the components interact properly with each other and the metals of the bullet and bore.

BTW, thanks for the compliment, though!

Green (the other Charlie) Frog

[Mike Venturino]

The only lube I use is SPG and I have three lube/sizers set up with SPG in every one. I've used it in smokeless loads in handguns from 600 fps in a .455 Webley and in smokeless rifle loads in .22 centerfires up to 2200 fps.

Yes I do occasionally get some lead out of the barrel but it wasn't the lube's fault. There are many other factors involved in barrel leading. Much more often I don't get any leading at all.

If .44 Man had such dismal results then he did something iwrong in loading. And no I don't get kick backs from Steve Garbe, and if people are laughing at his lube then why can he make a living off of it all these years.

If .44 Man wants to shoot against me in a BPCR Silhouette match with me using SPG and he using whatever lube he wants then I'm game for it. I'll bet money I can beat him. So .44 Man why don't you show up at the BPCR Silhouette Nationals in Raton this coming July and put your money where your mouth is.

Don't drag my name through the mud with your crap. I report in my writing what happens in my shooting the way it happens and not to stroke some friend that doesn't need stroking anyway. By the way, Steve Garbe won four national titles using his lube.

When thousands of people say one thing and then some other person says exactly the opposite, it does make you wonder where they are coming from.

Sorry to have to hammer all you other people with this too, but I won't take .44 Man's comments silently.
Mike Venturino

[Char-Gar]

I bought a butt load of SPG when it first hit the market and it did just fine for all my hangun use including some full snort .357 and 44 magnum loads. I see no reason why it shouldn't work just fine for rifle loads in the same velocity range. I am not a black powder shooter, so I have no experience there, but SPG had done well for me in about 50K smokless handgun loads.

I used it in South Texas and Southern New Mexico which can get very hot in the summer and I had no problems with SPG rolling snake eyes for me.

I didn't replace it when my supply ran out because I can make my own lube much cheaper and it works every bit as well as SPG. I have been using beeswax with enough Vaseline to soften it for luse in a lube size machine since 1958. It have proved to be a good lube in the over a million cast bullet rounds, from target velocity hangun loads to rifles loads running 2.2K fps.

Given a cast bullet of good design, which is a good fit for the rifle barrel, this lube will consistantly hold moa accuracy. Proving of course the rifle, alloy temper, power type and pressure is all right. That is all I ask a cast bullet lube to do.

My stuff would not be a good black powder lube. If I wanted to shoot black powder, I would buy more SPG or make my own for lower cost.

The bottom line is SPG has worked for me very well and I would not hesitate to recommend it to others for smokless powder use.

[boommer]

Mike you could not! said it ANY BETTER. Some people buy things and the cant get to work right for them and it's always the product (never them)!! Maybe that's why he's tired of getting ripped off. MR 44 IF YOUR GOING TO BASH SOMETHING YOU BETTER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. NICE!

[Bullshop]

So does this mean you wont be taking advantage of the NASA lube sale?
I'll send ya a free sample Mike.
BIC/BS

[Tom Herman]

I use it in low speed (800-1,000fps) smokeless handgun loads all the time. It works better than the harder smokeless lubes in that case. I have not tried it in faster loads since my NRA 50/50 lube works fine for that. I did read an article recently (Handloader mag) where the SPG lube was tried at the speeds you are talking about and it worked fine.

Harry, I run similar here. I used SPG in .44 SPL, .45 LC, and .455 Webley (BTW: Thanks, Mike for your article about a year ago on casting handgun bullets for the Webley and other guns. Great read, it's in my library for future reference) with Unique loadings that generated anywhere from about 650 FPS to maybe 950 FPS depending on caliber.
I had accurate loads, minimal to no leading.
I finally stopped using it because I could make a dead ringer for $5/# or less. Being frugal and liking to "roll my own", I save the money and have the satisfaction of making it myself.
Both the real SPG and what I now use serve me just fine. Cleanup is as simple as wiping down the outside of the guns with a rag, and swabbing out the bore.
My formulation is 40% Paraffin Wax, 40% Sheep Tallow (Dixie Gunworks), and 20% Beeswax. Beef tallow will work, but the sheep tallow is preferred, as it contains lanolin.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[44man]

I don't run anyone through the mud. I only state facts. Neither do I kiss butt.
I hauled the balance of SPG to every shoot for a year with a sale sign on it for less then half the price I paid. At the end of the season I tried to give it away with no luck.
Some like the stuff but some also like LLA too???
I am retired on Social Security and can barely afford a can of powder once in a while, let alone gas for shoots. When I read all kinds of claims and spend too much money for something, I expect results.
When I could not give it away, it tells me something very important.
Don't expect me at Ratone, I am not a little rich kid! But the friend I shoot with put all of you to shame at Ratone and he laughed when I offered him my SPG.
Mike, some of the weak are bowing down to you and those that agree with me have shut up. I won't do it! I don't care if it is a bad gun, powder, boolit mold or anything else. When it is no good I will continue to say it.
Of course your answer was that I was doing something wrong. I have been loading over 55 years. You offer a challange that I can't afford to do. My challange to you is, YOU come here with your rifle and I will compete against you with a revolver, out to 500 meters.
Bring all of your handguns too, we will have a blast.
When the day comes that you have to pinch every penny, maybe you will understand something. When I want a new gun, I have to sell four.
Now I want to see how many were scared off by you posting and how many will kiss your feet! You don't know them and could care less about them or me but they want the warm, fuzzy glow they get when they think they are your friends. I have more self esteem then that and only judge a person I meet face to face and interact with. After that I might like you a lot and consider you a friend for life. But behind a keyboard, you are no different then anyone else. And neither am I!
You are free to drag me through the mud too! :drinks: I never get angry, but I darn sure stick to my guns.

[35 Whelen]

WOW! I didn't intend to stir up such a hornets nest. Let's all relax here.

I asked the initial question about SPG because I understand it to be primarily a black powder lube. I don't shoot BP, but I understand that the lubes are formulated to keep fouling soft. I just didn't know how this would affect smokeless powder loads.
That being said, I have learned a few things about lube; mostly that there's alot of smoke, mirrors and BS. Personally, my primary criteria for lube is that is not melt and migrate in our torrential Texas heat. In my smokeless .30 caliber loads I've used RCBS rifle lube, Paco Kelly's Apache Blue, Thompsons Blue Angel, and Rooster Red. I honestly don't see any difference in accuracy or leading between any of them. Awhile back, I ran out of Blue Angel in my lubrisizer resevoir and dropped a tube of Rooster Red (220° melting point) in on top of the remaining Blue Angel (125 - 140° melting point). I had dozens upon dozens of bullets that came out of the sizer with both lubes in the grooves and the accuracy and leading, or lack thereof, was exactly the same as it was with any of the other lubes.

35W

[boommer]

I'm no friend Mikes never talk to the man never bowed to NOBODY But you know what STICKS IN MY CRAW BS LIKE YOURS!!! AND I wont have a battle of witts with a un-armed person

[357maximum]

We all have our own unique experiences in life as well as lube. Expressing ones opinion on a product is not "bashing" if done thoroughly, respectfully, thoughtfully. I have no use for SPG myself, but that fact hinges on price more than anything. I can make a canoe load of lube for less than a bucket of SPG or any orher big name lube. LUBE is not lube..there are differences some minor some major depending on what you are using/application/location, etc etc etc. Personally I myself have tailored my lubes to my climate/load intensity/accuracy requirements..they may not shine elsewhere. If you are happily shooting 2 to 3 inch groups at 50yards lube will not matter much...those who try to get all the boolits into the same hole at 1/2/3/400 yards and beyond will see this difference...sometimes. Calling each other nitwits and such will solve nothing and likely make you wonder what you were thinking when you read your own words the day after posting them.

[Mike Venturino]

44 Man: You're the one you said that I must be getting a kickback from Garbe to use and promote his lube. Of course I'm going to get mad about that. Let me point out one other thing. Garbe was president of Ballard Rifle Company and told me he would give me a great price on a Ballard or High Wall if I would shoot it in matches. Although we had been friends for over 20 years I told him no thanks. I prefer Sharps and Rolling Blocks so that's all I shoot in the game.

I've only been reloading for 43 years so I'm a youngster compared to you but I do have a little experience and I don't lie about it so I can suck up to some manufacturer.

And I'm not a rich kid. I come from the coal fields of southern West Virginia where hardly anyone had two nickels to rub together in th 50s and 60s when I grew up. What I've got in life I've gotten myself. When my wife and I got married I had a dog, a pickup truck that the bank owned more of than I did, and a few guns. When my folks died I came away with the family's ice cream scoop and told my sister to move into the folks' house because hers was falling down around her ears. When all the bills and expenses were paid we each inherited $10,000 which is what I used to build my shooting house here on my Montana property.

I have amassed a nice firearms collection and I have never taken one penny out of any salary I have made to buy them. I promised my wife that I wouldn't do that when we were married and I never have. I've bought them by spotting a good deal some where and selling it for a profit elsewhere and wisely investing the money gained in a good gun that also gained value. Its called having ambition.

So you're retired and on a fixed income. Then I consider you rich because there won't be any retirement for me. What IRA's I've bought over the years are practically worthless now anyway so except for social security I will die still sitting at a word processer. That's ok. I intended to anyway. That's also called ambition.

The bottom line is that SPG works for thousands of people. Many other lubes work just fine too. If you had problems then your problems are particular to your uses and not the products fault.

I don't profit from making these protective statements about SPG so what I'm doing here is actually a waste of my time and I wouldn't be here doing this if you hadn't accused me of taking a kickback from Garbe. Next time you perhaps should think about what you're saying before you make a statement about someone's integrity. I doubt you would have made your statement if you had known I watch this site.

I don't have the kind of ego that feeds on people's friendly comments here. They have just been nice and friendly. I doubt they much care for the comments you made about them.

Now I'm off to the gun show again.
Mike Venturino

[44man]

Mike, see, you are giving me more insight and I am going to apologize to you. I have nothing against you and think we would be friends in the long run.
I only have gotten the feeling that you have pushed SPG a little too much in every article you have written. I DO read all of your stuff.
I am sorry about your loss of money. I lost most of my retirement when the PBGC had it dumped on them. I am bitter after working all of my life and getting screwed big time. Then the democratic government in WV is eating me alive with taxes. So I know how you feel. Then the people voted that ass into the president's office so we are not done suffering yet.
I never accused you have getting a kickback, I only inferred it because I know you are friends, so I am sorry I said it. I stick my foot in my mouth a lot.
I don't expect you to forgive me but I harbor no hard feelings.

[44man]

I haven't heard of that many targets being submitted on the pistol postal match. Sometimes all a guy needs, is a tight shooting keyboard.
My complaint exactly. I post more pictures then anyone and get accused of lying all the time. Too many hide behind the keyboard and have no proof. The sayings I hate most is when someone says something "shoots good." Or it doesn't lead the barrel.

[Mike Venturino]

44 Man: Apology accepted. Now that that's out of the way where are you from in WV? I was born and raised in Mingo County, famous for its corruption and violent history.

MLV

[looseprojectile]

I use it in my BP loads, good as any.
It is Sunday. Good to see all of you here worshiping.[smilie=1:
Life is good

[Char-Gar]

"Mike, some of the weak are bowing down to you and those that agree with me have shut up."

44... For the record that is offensive as hell. I stated my experience with SPG as did you. The fact that I found it to be a decent lube, and you did not means nothing other than we had different experiences.

I don't know MV nor do I faun over gun writers in general. I started shooting in competition in 1954 and beat the road to Camp Perry when most folks on this board were not even born. I have been handloading since 1958 and bullets casting since 1959. I will put my knowledge and experience up against any of them.

I did write MV a letter about a year ago taking him to task on an article he wrote on reloading the .303 Brit. I thought the article was lacking in several areas. He did reply with a polite but defensive letter. In the main, I enjoy his work and have leared from him, but I don't bow down to him.

I don't think any of us one this board are wealthy and most of us watch our pennies just like you do. Most of us took a hit with the latest economic downturn. I know I did.

The long and short of this, is you made all kinds of accusations in your posts and called into question folks character. Shame on you!

[Harry O]

Harry, I run similar here. I used SPG in .44 SPL, .45 LC, and .455 Webley (BTW: Thanks, Mike for your article about a year ago on casting handgun bullets for the Webley and other guns. Great read, it's in my library for future reference) with Unique loadings that generated anywhere from about 650 FPS to maybe 950 FPS depending on caliber.
Happy Shootin'! -Tom

Glad to hear you had the same results as me. I would hate to be accused of taking kickbacks.

I tried making some bullet lubes myself 3 or 4 times back when I first started casting. Nothing I was able to make was as good as SPG for BP or low speed smokeless loads. Nothing I was able to make was as good as the NRA 50/50 lube for higher velocity loads. So, I just buy them. I figure that it gives me more time to load and shoot.

[44man]

44 Man: Apology accepted. Now that that's out of the way where are you from in WV? I was born and raised in Mingo County, famous for its corruption and violent history.

MLV
I am from Ohio but had to move near Harpers Ferry when I had to transfer. I worked at Dulles airport. One look in VA for a place to live was mind blowing. I love WV. I love the people that were here but the DC snobs that move in are different. Many extreme liberals here too.
I see some guys are hammering me again. Who cares! I am an old curmudgeon and say things out of line all the time and feel you are a better man to accept me. You should see what happens if I mention FREEDOM ARMS! :mrgreen::mrgreen:
I still stick to my guns! I could sit down over coffee with a dozen of you and shoot with you but not a single person will change my mind about SPG, Shavers, Orange Magic, LLA, boolit alloys, Keith semi wadcutters AND SOME REVOLVERS. I am hard headed as hell! [smilie=1:
There is not a single person on any site that makes an out of box revolver shoot any boolit as good as I can. (No semi wadcutters though, out of date!) I get hundreds of E mails from guys that need help and get a lot of thanks because I go out of my way to help them. Some are complaining about only 1" at 50 yd's. :-D
Yes Mike, you are showing your true colors. Unlike some that pick on me for years for naming a part wrong or talking down what they believe in.
My reply to those that continue is that Mike has proven to be a better man then you, back off, I did. I have a new appreciation of him. I am sorry I said some things, it is your turn to prove you are as big a man as he is.

[Char-Gar]

44.. You consider Mike a big man because he accepted your apology. You ask us to be as big, but you have not extended an apology to the rest of us you slandered. How can we be as big and accept an apolgy we have no received?

I find a lack of logic here that might account for some of that hard headedness you see so proud of!

[Tom Herman]

So you're retired and on a fixed income. Then I consider you rich because there won't be any retirement for me. What IRA's I've bought over the years are practically worthless now anyway so except for social security I will die still sitting at a word processer. That's ok. I intended to anyway. Mike Venturino

Hi Mike and .44 Man,

I understand the retirement issue. Although mine hasn't totally evaporated yet, to say I'm upset with what's happening to mine is an understatement.
I wish you both the best. My wife is steadily going down hill, and because of the medical insurance, I will most likely have to work until one of us finally goes.
All I can picture is working like Bat Masterson and crapping out at the desk...

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[44man]

Sorry guys, my apology extends to everyone. All I ask is that if I offend, tell me right away, I will say I am sorry, just don't bring it up over and over for a year.
Just remember, I am an old fart and forget stuff in 5 minutes. :drinks:

[Mumblypeg]

I love you guys! This is better than any soap opera. You know... we are all kinda alike and we are all kinda different and we all have similar experiences with different results. That almost sounds philosophical...?

[boommer]

Thanks 44 Man apology accepted I didn't have clean hands here either I'm really SORRY about some things I said to you not nice or right I'm SORRY!

[Char-Gar]

44... You are a good man. Apology accepted and friendship extended. Take care and best of luck weathering this economic situation. I am 66 and this stuff has hit all of us near this age very hard. I was hit harder than some and lighter than others. Our parents and grandparents went through the "great depression" and did not loose their sense of humor, their family unity or sense of honor and disgnity. So shall we!

[dubber123]

Well, while the apologies are flyin' I will make one too: Sorry Mike V. for bringing up your name in the first place! I thought I was being helpful, as usual... Ha!

[44man]

Thanks fellas, I will tread more carefully.
I feel much better this morning, have you seen the latest popularity poll on Obama? He is slipping big time! :mrgreen: Maybe the economy will keep him so busy he will never get around to the anti gun crap. I doubt it, he has surrounded himself with nut cases. All of the Clintonistas.
OOPS, sorry, I didn't want to ruin everyone's day! :(

[#Lovelead44]

I'm kinda tard of all the huppla about SPG. When all these BP Carts were bein' used in their time. SPG wasn't around. They used what ever was slippery.....usually beeswax and tallow. Worked just fine to put meet on the table. Lubing a lead bullet for a BP cart is not rocket science. Yea, SPG is good stuff but not the end all to end all. Over my 50+ years of shooting BP, I've used Crisco, "goose grease" and beeswax (to harden' it up) just about everything else. They all work fine. So you gotta swab the bore out once and a while......if that's a big deal to you......you shouldn't be shooting BP in the first place.
So howabout talking about topics that are really important.....like getting those concrete block size bullets in the X ring at 200 yards. A deer or elk ain't going to give a lick whether he gets done n by a bullet lubed with SPG or your own home made stuff.

One guys opinion....thanks for reading.

Lovelead44