.45 ACP Bullseye shooting powders

[Doughty]

Of late I have become interested in Bullseye shooting with the .45 ACP. It seems that slow, low pressure loads are the way to go. I have been using Alliant Bullseye powder, but a friend says that Winchester WST is what all the "cool kids" are using. My question is why? Is it better than Win 231? I've heard it is just a rebranded Winchester shotgun powder. Also that it "burns clean." Is it formulated to burn better at low pressure? Right now I can buy WST at our local Scheels, but can't find any Bullseye locally. Any thoughts, experience or speculations from the collective intelligence?

[Larry Gibson]

Bullseye has been the standard for a century. WST should also work well as does 231 and TightGroup. Doubt any "cool" factor makes any one better than the other. Doubt the "cool" ones can hold hard enough to tell the difference......

[Misery-Whip]

And I get the best accuracy using 800x over any of those. Just enough for reliable function. Its a pain to meter because the flakes are HUGE. I only keep a box loaded for those informal bragging rights.

I got a lb for free from a neighbor, he was going to try it, but after seeing those flakes sent it down the road. Only reason I tried it. Id have to get a charge dispenser to compete with 800x

Titegroup is my go to if I have it. Bullseye is 3rd choice.

My advice is to let your 45 decide what it likes.

[gunther]

If you ever stumble onto an estate sale, watch for DuPont 5066. It was the real deal in the 1950's. Bullseye was #2 by comparison.
A friend who has shot bullseye since the 1970's seems to look for easy metering, and low cost. If you're going to get serious, you will need a lot of practice. WST, is a shotgun powder, and is available in 8# jugs.

[schutzen-jager]

red dot worked for me -

[45DUDE]

A good 1911 isn't that picky on powders. -Bullseye-231-American Select-Titegroup-Red dot-Green dot-VN340-700x and several more will do great with 4.5 grains of powder with a flat base 180-200 grain boolit. When You can bench a 1 1/2''10 shot group at 25 yards you are ready for action. Bullseye is my first choice. American Select or Titegroup or N340 or 231 for second. You don't have to readjust the sights using 4.5 grains.

[ABJ]

As 45DUDE said most any powder in the Bullseye range will work. Bullseye is what I use but have have used Red and Green dot for excellent accuracy just a pain in powder measures. HP-38 works just takes a little more. Titegroup is about the same as bullseye, a tenth or two less than bullseye. As far as all the others go, I'm sure I could make them work given enough testing.
Bottom line shooting 200 grainers, if I can't find Bullseye, my second choice is Red Dot, Green Dot then titegroup. If you don't mind the flake powders I think Red and Green Dot is more accurate than Bullseye it just will not meter on my Dillon.
Tony

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Maybe AA#5.

DG

[Kosh75287]

Bullseye would be MY first choice, followed by Red Dot. I don't shoot Bullseye competition, but I worked up a mild load with PROMO, for a student, and it was a clover-leaf maker. IMR-700X WAS used a fair amount by some top-tier shooters, and probably still is. IMR PB was ALSO wonderful in this application, but good luck finding any, now.
W231/HP38 should have no trouble giving you very mild, tight-shooting loads. It is the only Winchester-brand propellant that I use with any regularity, and I tend to try using almost anything else, first.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, I'D say that, among the propellants with a burn-rate of Green Dot or faster, it will be far more difficult to find one that does NOT give you stellar accuracy than to find one that does.
Propellants with slower burning rates than, say, Green Dot won't NOT work, but are not well suited to delivering your desired performance (185 gr. -200 gr. @ 750 + 25 f/s) and burning cleanly. The result is smoky cases, unburned propellant in the works, and a firearm that gets dirty and unreliable before it need be. Propellants like Unique, Herco, BE-86 and AA#5 are superb propellants for factory-level and higher performance .45 ACP loads, smaller capacity higher-pressure rounds, and any of the original magnum revolver calibers. But they burn cleanest in loads developing ~18,000 p.s.i. and upward. Typical target .45 ACP loads tend to hover at 20% lower pressures and below.

[charlie b]

One of the great things about the .45acp is it performs well with a wide variety of powders. Back when I was young and didn't have much money I bought whatever powder that was on the shelf and cheap. Basically if I could find load data for it I'd use it. Most of the time one was as accurate as another, especially if I weighed my charges.

These days for pistols I use what meters well...most of the time. I still have a jug of 700-X and Blue Dot to use up :) No, I don't shoot pistol much these days. Hand tremors make it frustrating.

[Forrest r]

Any fast burning powder will work. Couldn't even begin to count how many rounds of the h&g 68/bullseye combo I've put down range in several 1911 45acp pistols. My latest 1911/45acp testing bullseye/h&g 68, 10-shot group @ 50ft.
https://i.imgur.com/lxO5I66.jpg

I used wst for awhile in the 45acp's and now I only use it for bullseye loads in a 9mm/1911 platform. Another 10-shot group @ 50ft using mp 125gr cast bullets and wst.
https://i.imgur.com/N6XBlbc.jpg

Clays is a fantastic powder for 45acp/bullseye. Was playing around doing ladder tests with clays (4.ogr & 4.3gr) and 3 different cast 175gr to 200gr bullets in a nm 1911/45acp tested @ 50ft.
https://i.imgur.com/GcK8If3.jpg

Those were only 5-shot groups @ 50ft but all 3 bullets shot 1" or less 5-shot groups.
https://i.imgur.com/N17hNIE.jpg

Those 4.3gr loads of clays are easily repeatable and is now my favorite blammo ammo/practice ammo for the 1911. Kind of nice to use 1 powder charge and several different bullets that all have the same poa/poi and reasonable accuracy.

I only test @ 50ft simply because that's the distance I shoot bullseye at/reddots are set for.

If all you can find is wst right now, I wouldn't worry about it. Buy some and start ladder testing.

[Doughty]

So, nothing special about WST except that its the one that is locally available. Natchez has Bullseye at the same price as the local WST but shipping and hazmat for Bullseye makes the actual cost higher.

Went to the range yesterday. It had warmed up to in the 20s and no wind. So, some snow removal and I was ready to go. Lee #68 copy with 3.5 Bullseye and 4.2 WST. With my current level of skill, no significant difference. So, work on skills for about a month, have cataract surgery, wait some as it gets warmer, then see if I can tell the difference between powders. Want to try AA#2 also.

Thanks for all the replies.

[Bigslug]

ForrestR's pretty much nailed it - if you can get a consistent CLEAN burn, you're off and running. Getting a 1911 to shoot better than you can is NOT the hard part of the NRA Bullseye experience. If WST seems to be getting it done, it's available and gets you in the game.

Bullseye's my first choice by experience; Unique too slow and too dirty - especially with cast bullets using grease-based lube.

[44MAG#1]

My ex-shooting buddy was a high master class NRA Bullseye shooter.
He used Bullseye.
Nothing wrong with Bullseye.

[lx2008]

titegroup is all i use

[Outpost75]

WST is the modern replacement for 452AA, which was discontinued in 1991. Clean burning. Meters well for machine loading. Not "better" than Bullseye, but every bit as good. If your Star machine it set up to measure a safe charge with Bullseye you can refill with WST. No adjustment is needed.

[ChuckS1]

Bullseye is my number one choice. Clays is also good. Look at the thread I linked for more options.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1209-pet-loads-of-top-shooters-loads-from-the-past

[Alstep]

H&G 68 with 4.0 gr BE has worked well for me for years in all my 1911's.

[Doughty]

Thanks for all the replies. ChuckS1 I bookmarked that link. Yesterday I went back to Scheels looking for some powder for my sons new 6.5 PRC. While I was there I saw that they still had the WST @ $40/lb. Then I notice off to the side that they had some HP-38 @ $32/lb. Years ago when I still had pretty good eyes I shot quite a bit of Win 231 in the .45 acp at general purpose velocity levels. So I grabbed 4 lbs. In another deal I got 6 lbs of an 8 lb jug from a friend for $100. So, with the Bullseye I already had, and the WST I bought, I should be able to shoot enough to see if I can tell the difference between them. If not, I will have had fun trying.

PS: I just did a little math. If it was correct, I should have enough for over 26,000 rounds. Don't know if I can get in that much testing before the end of May when there is a match I'd like to shoot in.

[RCL]

I have been using WST in my 1911's for a few years now and really like it.
It seems to be readily available in my area.

[wv109323]

As stated there are several powders that work fine in .45 acp. Powder is not the most important aspect of accurate .45 acp loads. Make sure your cast boolits are well filled out at the base with a sharp corner after sixing. Also make sure the base is flat with no voids. Next is a TAPER crimp of .469- .470 for the 200 g. Boolit. Lighter boolits of 185 and 160 g. require a taper crimp of .465-.466".
WST should work though I have never tried it. Powders I have proven are Bullseye, WW 231, Solo 1000, WW452 and VV310. All these are capable of less than 2" at 50 yards out of a Ransom rest.
I use Bullseye because it meters well in a progressive press and the last I bought was a special deal at Camp Perry. I bought 8# for $120.
I load 4.2 g of Bullseye with my cast 68 H&G with a taper crimp of .469. I have a slide mounted Ultradot with a 10# recoil spring. The old standard load was 3.5 g of Bullseye with iron sights.
You will not be able to tell a difference in loads shooting offhand because the error of the shooter far exceeds the actual difference in loads.

[Mr Peabody]

I've been using Winchester 244 with very good results and it's very available around here

[Walks]

I started My reloading on My own with Bullseye in .38Spl. For an old Victory M&P. I picked up an older 1911 as My next handgun. I used Bullseye in it too.
When I got home from overseas I bought a New Series 70 Colt. I knuckled down for some serious shooting.
Dad ramped and throated the Colt and gave Me a #452488 1cav.
Many, many thousands of that bullet cast from a 4cav and and old Saeco pot were propelled by BULLSEYE shot into one hole groups.
I've used many other powders over the years, but always come back to BULLSEYE.

[oldhenry]

If you ever stumble onto an estate sale, watch for DuPont 5066. It was the real deal in the 1950's. Bullseye was #2 by comparison.
A friend who has shot bullseye since the 1970's seems to look for easy metering, and low cost. If you're going to get serious, you will need a lot of practice. WST, is a shotgun powder, and is available in 8# jugs.

I remember it as P5066 & I also morn it's passing along with PB.
You must be as old as I am.

[Rapier]

Close but no cigar. 452AA was used by the AMU to win 2400 match after match for a dozen years. Then Win decided it was temp sensitive and replaced it with an equivalent powder WST. It has a slow impulse push type recoil and burns very clean. You can shoot a day and the gun looks like it was never shot. I shot 452 for many decades in pins, plates and IPSC competition, 1911, Revolver and in a 9mm Major comp gun when they were legal by regulation. You could buy 452 in 10# kegs. 4 to 5.2 grains was standard clover leaf for a 200 H&G in a 45 1911 or a 25-2 so, it goes a long ways. Probably old guys showing new guys what wins and they just keep on going. Oh, I shoot several different powders, but an all day practice is easier with a softer recoil.
I stopped shooting 2400 when I left the 101st Abn Div team, started shooting reactive targets and IPSC, but helped run the FOP 2400 matches for about 20 years in NW FL at the Ft Walton Beach FOP range, until that range was closed.
Try the pencil practice, with a new square eraser pencil, sharpened, dropped dow the barrel, bullseye target printed to match size at 25, thumb tacked to a flat board at eye level. Stand so the pencil point is 2" from the paper and shoot groups using the firing pin to launch the pencil. The pencil point will strike about 2" low but will make a group. An old AMU practice.

[Doughty]

Rapier, the match I plan on shooting is a 2700 match. I haven't heard of a 2400 match. Is this a typo or a different match?

[veeman]

Every 1911 in 45ACP I have or had has preferred WST, regardless of bullet weight, cast or jacketed. They just love the stuff. Testing for 45ACP is done!

[Bmi48219]

More than happy with the results I get using TiteGroup. Burns clean, meters very well, and the price is reasonable. I use 8 to 12 lbs a year for 38, 380, 9, 10 and 45. Hope they never discontinue it.

[softpoint]

I have used 231 with the Lyman 452460 bullet for years

[saleen322]

I used to have a perfect setup with our own range and a mechanical rest we used for 50 yard testing. Bullseye shot good in everything but not the best in anything. WST with cast SWCs was consistently the best in two 45s. For hardball matches, Clays would do the best. With 185 HPs, it was AA5. As was mentioned, you need to experiment some because it is like finding the best 22 ammo, each gun has its own favorites.